Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

[rocketsfan100]

Phoenix Suns will be capped out for the foreseeable future.. no defense.. no depths no playmaking.. they have lost the plot. Beal will be making 49 million, 51 million and 56 million in the next three years. Lol

[eyeatoma]

Wow Miami trying to get Beal without giving up Herro. Good for them.

Read on Twitter

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[ProcessDoctor]

Wow Miami trying to get Beal without giving up Herro. Good for them.

Read on Twitter

?t=VzADPFR2CEw2BOBn-5jn6Q&s=19

I think it'd be wiser if they included Herro though. Having Beal + Jimmy + Bam + Herro on the books would be a challenge to build around with the new CBA. Herro + Robinson +/- a 1st is the way.

Vincent/Lowry
Beal/Struss
Butler/Martin
Love/(MLE)
Bam/(vet)

[sixers hoops]

As bad as Jo was, if you have Embiid at 13 you can **** right on off.

Who would you put Jo ahead of? He is clearly better than a handful of guys, but considering age, injury history, and playoff success, I’m not sure about trade value. I think they had Embiid 5th on overall player rankings, but guys who are 3+ years younger have their prime years ahead of them. Jimmy has had massive playoff success, but at his age, I don’t know if anybody would give immense value for him at this point.

[sixers hoops]

It is kinda crazy to me that Harden has never really moved when off the ball. It just seems intuitive to do so.

Or plays defense on the perimeter, he conserves all of his energy for dominating the ball. Doc had some success putting him down low in the zone because defensively his strength can be at least somewhat of an asset there.

I still want him re-signed because if it isn't working by the trade deadline he becomes a decent asset to use if they need to reset around Embiid and Maxey.

If he signs a four year deal, I don’t know that he will ever have positive trade value. I can’t imagine a lot of teams wanting James Harden in his 36 and 37 year old seasons making $40 million. It seems to project as a contract you have to give picks to dump.

I think on a two year deal, he could have some value. He was widely considered an all-star snub this year, so getting two good seasons seems reasonable.

[eyeatoma]

As bad as Jo was, if you have Embiid at 13 you can **** right on off.

Who would you put Jo ahead of? He is clearly better than a handful of guys, but considering age, injury history, and playoff success, I’m not sure about trade value. I think they had Embiid 5th on overall player rankings, but guys who are 3+ years younger have their prime years ahead of them. Jimmy has had massive playoff success, but at his age, I don’t know if anybody would give immense value for him at this point.

Jo is 30, yes he gets hurt in the playoffs, but they're not long term injuries, so he's still playing at his peak, and getting better. He has continued to get better the last 2 years, and just won the MVP. You can't have the current MVP 13th in trade value, I don't care how bad your playoff performance is. Fact of the matter is, Tatum should be no where in the top 10, he stunk it up big time, and had 1 otherworldly performance, that was it. Yeah better Jo in the playoffs but with Tatum we have to take regular season into consideration as well.

Jo would be ahead of Butler (crazy playoff performances but he's 34, you can bring up age but he was terrible the last 2 series. Caleb Martin carried them against Boston. Only reason I have Butler lower is because of age. I can be persuaded to rank him higher than Jo though.

Jamaal Murray, great playoff performance, won the chip, but had an ACL tear, and hasn't been an all star once, cmon, higher than JO? He comes up big when he matters the most, but this man has won no hardware apart from a chip. Show it to me again in the regular season before you place him over the MVP, when you are one season removed form an acl tear.

Durant is on the decline, two straight years of it, and he's the most injury prone superstar in the league, where he misses months on end.

Edwards is good, but I don't see him having better trade value than Jo right now. You're telling me that the Wolves would say no to a Edwards for Embiid trade straight up?

Devin Booker lol? Two straight playoff disappointment, one as the 1 seed.

That is the question you have to ask for a lot of players. Would you trade that player for Embiid, or would you have to give up more.

Apart from Luka, Wemby, Jokic, Giannis Steph, there is no other player in the league with higher trade value, despite Embiid's repeated playoff failures. How soon we forget that he was the MVP and deservedly so. How soon we forget that Harden was more of a no show, than a playoff performer. Yeah he carried us to two games, he was also the reason we lost the other 4.

Let's not forget Jokic won MVP last year and was out the 1st round. Dirk won the MVP and lost in the 1st round. If Embiid is healthy, and messes up in the playoffs I agree. But for all intents and purposes he was injured. I know many see it as an excuse (I do too to an extent) but this was a 4-6 week injury that he returned for in 1 week. It's as simple as that. We get one injury free post season from Jo, and I think we win it, if he has the correct supporting cast. We'll win the chip, if he still fails, then I will ship him out myself. I still think it's worth trading him, just so he can go to an actually functional organization.

I still think he came up immensely small. If he played like he did in Game 4 or 5, we win. That's on him, and there are definite doubts that have arrived. But this feels like when ESPN ranked Bam Adebayo higher than JO, before he went and got two MVP runner ups, and then won the MVP. The recency bias involved in this is insane, especially when it includes a bunch of playoff losers, and injury prone players. Additionally, they have updated Jokic having won a chip on the trade rankings, but say Embiid hasn't won an MVP. Possibly an oversight, but the Boston sports Mafia's opinion isn't the one that I'm trusting on trade value lol.

[rocketsfan100]

It’s been pretty much established no one is giving harden 4 years. I think he will get 2plus 1 the last probaly a team option from Houston or Philadelphia. Probaly a 2 year 85 guaranteed

[eyeatoma]

Wow Miami trying to get Beal without giving up Herro. Good for them.

Read on Twitter

?t=VzADPFR2CEw2BOBn-5jn6Q&s=19

I think it'd be wiser if they included Herro though. Having Beal + Jimmy + Bam + Herro on the books would be a challenge to build around with the new CBA. Herro + Robinson +/- a 1st is the way.

Vincent/Lowry
Beal/Struss
Butler/Martin
Love/(MLE)
Bam/(vet)

Hmm yeah, but I could still flip Herro later if it doesn't work out next year. Miami is also the best team in the league in extracting value from absolute scrubs.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

So the circulating barrage of rumors that are already swirling about has me thinking about something new.
Maybe it would be in our best interest to see what the other top teams, specifically in the Eastern Conference do during the offseason.

Let's say Miami does make the trade for Beal. The stupid one with them basically handing Washington cap space in the foreseeable future. Miami upgrading with Beal and only giving up mediocre talent and injured players is almost certainly going to put them in the top 3 conversations in the East. We know Milwaukee is going to be right there, Boston may take a step back, but they're a team you never sleep on. I also think the Cavs are going to be a better team as well. Oh, and we can't ignore the Knicks either. I have a feeling they are going to make a big move this summer that's going to put them in the Finals conversation. If there is a team in the East that is in prime position to acquire an alpha from another team it's them.

So with all these teams improving, where does that put us? We're not an ascending team at this point. We're getting older, we're slow, short, and unathletic compared to these other teams. How are you guys going to feel about October if these teams around us upgrade and push forward while we basically stay the same roster that is quite possibly without James Harden?

Are we ok paying Harden just to be in the 5-6 seed conversation next season? If we're a 6 seed with Harden, a lot of people are going to be extremely mad about that. There's going to be an outpour of frustration if we end up struggling to try to run this back because of the aforementioned scenarios^^^.

Now compare that to just playing loose with Maxey and Embiid. I personally think we can still push for a 6-7 seed in the east without Harden. I guess my point when it comes down to it is that, Harden better be worth it if we bring him back. I'm ok with him coming back, but a big part of me wants him to leave because I don't think we're good enough even with him. Regardless of whether he stays or goes, if we don't upgrade our athletes and inject some youth into this team, we're screwed.

[sixers hoops]

As bad as Jo was, if you have Embiid at 13 you can **** right on off.

Who would you put Jo ahead of? He is clearly better than a handful of guys, but considering age, injury history, and playoff success, I’m not sure about trade value. I think they had Embiid 5th on overall player rankings, but guys who are 3+ years younger have their prime years ahead of them. Jimmy has had massive playoff success, but at his age, I don’t know if anybody would give immense value for him at this point.

Jo is 30, yes he gets hurt in the playoffs, but they're not long term injuries, so he's still playing at his peak, and getting better. He has continued to get better the last 2 years, and just won the MVP. You can't have the current MVP 13th in trade value, I don't care how bad your playoff performance is. Fact of the matter is, Tatum should be no where in the top 10, he stunk it up big time, and had 1 otherworldly performance, that was it. Yeah better Jo in the playoffs but with Tatum we have to take regular season into consideration as well.

Jo would be ahead of Butler (crazy playoff performances but he's 34, you can bring up age but he was terrible the last 2 series. Caleb Martin carried them against Boston. Only reason I have Butler lower is because of age. I can be persuaded to rank him higher than Jo though.

Jamaal Murray, great playoff performance, won the chip, but had an ACL tear, and hasn't been an all star once, cmon, higher than JO? He comes up big when he matters the most, but this man has won no hardware apart from a chip. Show it to me again in the regular season before you place him over the MVP, when you are one season removed form an acl tear.

Durant is on the decline, two straight years of it, and he's the most injury prone superstar in the league, where he misses months on end.

Edwards is good, but I don't see him having better trade value than Jo right now. You're telling me that the Wolves would say no to a Edwards for Embiid trade straight up?

Devin Booker lol? Two straight playoff disappointment, one as the 1 seed.

That is the question you have to ask for a lot of players. Would you trade that player for Embiid, or would you have to give up more.

Apart from Luka, Wemby, Jokic, Giannis Steph, there is no other player in the league with higher trade value, despite Embiid's repeated playoff failures. How soon we forget that he was the MVP and deservedly so. How soon we forget that Harden was more of a no show, than a playoff performer. Yeah he carried us to two games, he was also the reason we lost the other 4.

Let's not forget Jokic won MVP last year and was out the 1st round. Dirk won the MVP and lost in the 1st round. If Embiid is healthy, and messes up in the playoffs I agree. But for all intents and purposes he was injured. I know many see it as an excuse (I do too to an extent) but this was a 4-6 week injury that he returned for in 1 week. It's as simple as that. We get one injury free post season from Jo, and I think we win it, if he has the correct supporting cast. We'll win the chip, if he still fails, then I will ship him out myself. I still think it's worth trading him, just so he can go to an actually functional organization.

I still think he came up immensely small. If he played like he did in Game 4 or 5, we win. That's on him, and there are definite doubts that have arrived. But this feels like when ESPN ranked Bam Adebayo higher than JO, before he went and got two MVP runner ups, and then won the MVP. The recency bias involved in this is insane, especially when it includes a bunch of playoff losers, and injury prone players. Additionally, they have updated Jokic having won a chip on the trade rankings, but say Embiid hasn't won an MVP. Possibly an oversight, but the Boston sports Mafia's opinion isn't the one that I'm trusting on trade value lol.

Some good points. I was curious because I thought the list was fairly accurate. I don’t follow Bill Simmons and don’t really value his opinion, but I thought it was okay. I could see Embiid up a few spots.

[76ciology]

What do we do to Tucker? If Nurse implements more ball and player movement, I can’t see him starting because he can’t shoot 3s other than corner 3s, he’s not a good cutter, he’s not a lob option and he is not good at finishing around the rim.

[mjkvol]

The Heat will get him. They have picks that the Suns don't and Herro is better than Ayton.

Wonder if Lowry and Porzingis possibly get involved as well? Couple MIA firsts to WSH? Miami could end up with Bam, Porzingis, Jimmy, and Beal.

If Washington is rebuilding, why would they want Herro's contract? I could see them taking Lowry if he's an expiring, they can move him at the deadline.

[76ciology]

The Heat will get him. They have picks that the Suns don't and Herro is better than Ayton.

Wonder if Lowry and Porzingis possibly get involved as well? Couple MIA firsts to WSH? Miami could end up with Bam, Porzingis, Jimmy, and Beal.

If Washington is rebuilding, why would they want Herro's contract? I could see them taking Lowry if he's an expiring, they can move him at the deadline.

Herro’s is 24yo averaging 20-5-4 on 56TS% on a sub 30M per year deal. At some point of his contract, he’s gonna be an asset. If you give him Beal’s usage, he’d probably give you Zach Lavine numbers next season.

[M2J]

Getting Harden for 2 years changes my tune a bit, 4 or 5 years was asinine. 2 years at any number is tradeable even.

Guys here have made great comments regarding this style of play being an issue. Less motion with him, he needs to catch and shoot more. Maybe with his money being locked in, he'll stop leaking BS on Christmas Day and actually buy into a system.

But at the end of the day you could've gone with a lot ball movement oriented system, prop up Maxey and Tobi or Tobi replacement more, and improve your defense. I was hoping for a sign and trade of Harden around the league for numerous contracts for depth. Maxey and Harden are still hard to play together defensively, unless Maxey really improves... Which can happen and there's no reason not to.

Furthermore, Harden needs to play off ball more, but focus on facilitating and they really need to coach Maxey to be a great off ball player, and look for him in their system. That guy playing even like Dame, moving off screens without the ball can be an offense, especially paired with the Harden and Joel pick and roll, or Joel fighting for post position. Plus, I know Tobias is willing to play that way. Then let the Harden one on one next to that motion, be a feature some nights, but a 3rd or 4th option most nights.

Also, stop starting PJ. I like PJ, but he's gotta shoot.

[mjkvol]

The Heat will get him. They have picks that the Suns don't and Herro is better than Ayton.

Wonder if Lowry and Porzingis possibly get involved as well? Couple MIA firsts to WSH? Miami could end up with Bam, Porzingis, Jimmy, and Beal.

If Washington is rebuilding, why would they want Herro's contract? I could see them taking Lowry if he's an expiring, they can move him at the deadline.

Herro’s is 24yo averaging 20-5-4 on 56TS% on a sub 30M per year deal. At some point of his contract, he’s gonna be an asset. If you give him Beal’s usage, he’d probably give you Zach Lavine numbers next season.

Good point. He can be a classic tank commander 'pump and dump' type player ala Tobias in a rebuilding scenario like that.

[HardenGoat]

I think we have to hope Maxey becomes a more rounded dynamic scorer including off his own dribble and Nurse unlocks that in a less Embiid centric offense. Otherwise we will still have that void come post season. Iam less worried about Maxeys defense. He is turning that corner. Iam more worried about Harden, he needs to commit for the entire season. I have no more excuses left for him. I know he did sacrifice some but he needs to be a better leader in the playoffs. He can obviously still play at an elite level when focussed. Lastly, beating a dead horse again, we need Embiid healthy. Nurse has to prioritize that and not over play the vets like Doc did. I hope Nurse can develop Embiid’s passing game as well. The rock stopping approach can only get you so far.

[Kobblehead]

Just wanted to post this ridiculous proposal that some random ESPN guy put forth.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/this_76ers_pelicans_trade_proposal_sends_zion_williamson_to_philly/s1_13132_38925787

Andre Snellings of ESPN recently proposed a trade sending Williamson to Philly for a package including James Harden. Snellings' mock deal would package Harden, P.J. Tucker, defending Slam Dunk Champion Mac McClung and two 2024 second-round draft picks to the Pelicans in return for Williamson, Larry Nance Jr., Garrett Temple and Trey Murphy III.

[the_process]

If Washington is rebuilding, why would they want Herro's contract? I could see them taking Lowry if he's an expiring, they can move him at the deadline.

Herro’s is 24yo averaging 20-5-4 on 56TS% on a sub 30M per year deal. At some point of his contract, he’s gonna be an asset. If you give him Beal’s usage, he’d probably give you Zach Lavine numbers next season.

Good point. He can be a classic tank commander 'pump and dump' type player ala Tobias in a rebuilding scenario like that.

The incentive to completely bottom out and have no talent is gone. The lottery odds are the same for the worst three teams and only drop 5% all the way down to six. Whereas it used to be a 5% drop just from the worst to the second worst. It's okay to be a 30 win tanking team now.

[the_process]

Just wanted to post this ridiculous proposal that some random ESPN guy put forth.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/this_76ers_pelicans_trade_proposal_sends_zion_williamson_to_philly/s1_13132_38925787

Andre Snellings of ESPN recently proposed a trade sending Williamson to Philly for a package including James Harden. Snellings' mock deal would package Harden, P.J. Tucker, defending Slam Dunk Champion Mac McClung and two 2024 second-round draft picks to the Pelicans in return for Williamson, Larry Nance Jr., Garrett Temple and Trey Murphy III.

There is an absolute zero percent chance the Pelicans would make that deal.

What a coup that would be for the Sixers, though. And I wouldn't even want Zion. Send his ass to NY for some picks.

[youngcrev]

Just wanted to post this ridiculous proposal that some random ESPN guy put forth.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/this_76ers_pelicans_trade_proposal_sends_zion_williamson_to_philly/s1_13132_38925787

Andre Snellings of ESPN recently proposed a trade sending Williamson to Philly for a package including James Harden. Snellings' mock deal would package Harden, P.J. Tucker, defending Slam Dunk Champion Mac McClung and two 2024 second-round draft picks to the Pelicans in return for Williamson, Larry Nance Jr., Garrett Temple and Trey Murphy III.

Yeah, I saw that. Just insanely bad for the Pelicans compared to the other 4 mock trades their insiders came up with (although the Hawks one is pretty bad too)