2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[HeartBreakKid]

An all-star for for a couple of roleplayers is a no brainer. People over think overlapping way too much.

For me, overlapping isn't as much of a problem as Beal's contract, injury history, and the fact that he's simply not good enough to make either of those worth the risk.

Is Beal going to get them past Denver? Doubtful. If he was that good, his trade value would have been so much higher than this. Is he going to keep the rest of the team from quitting in elimination games like they've made a habit of doing? Judging from what Wizards fans have said about his own effort and commitment to winning in recent years, probably not. He also constantly misses time with injuries. So it's hard to understand why the Suns would bother getting into cap hell under the new CBA for this. Just seems like New Owner Syndrome at its finest.

He's not a superstar or a top 20 player but he's still plenty good and is 29 years old.

His trade value is low because he has a no trade clause and expressed many times that he does not want to leave Washington (which is why he's still there until today). There has been a lot of interest for him in the past before he made it clear he was not leaving.

[tsherkin]

He's not a superstar or a top 20 player but he's still plenty good and is 29 years old.

He is okay, yeah. He mostly scores on a little above league-average efficiency and then fades in the playoffs. Getting to the rim less and less over time, doesn't draw fouls well, a couple years out of what looks like his prime. This is a gamble, and a fairly big one, I think. It might work, but it's not like he adds meaningfully to the variety of their game... and he's played 60 or fewer games in 4 straight seasons, so there are some notable concerns about his health.

[eminence]

Don't think the Wiz had much choice in where Beal went, that was all up to him. I'm surprised he picked Phoenix of the teams listed. Milwaukee and Miami both seem like they could've been more promising with better fits for him to succeed and look good doing it.

Not a big Beal guy, but yeah, no reason for Phoenix to turn that down, they were always going to be capped out.

Good for the Wiz for swallowing a tough to swallow pill.

[HeartBreakKid]

He's not a superstar or a top 20 player but he's still plenty good and is 29 years old.

He is okay, yeah. He mostly scores on a little above league-average efficiency and then fades in the playoffs. Getting to the rim less and less over time, doesn't draw fouls well, a couple years out of what looks like his prime. This is a gamble, and a fairly big one, I think. It might work, but it's not like he adds meaningfully to the variety of their game... and he's played 60 or fewer games in 4 straight seasons, so there are some notable concerns about his health.

Sure but they're not trading Chris Paul for someone with a spotless record.

[GSP]

Read on Twitter

Wtf?????????!!!!! Goodwin deadass better than Shamet lmaooooooo hes automatically best Poa guard defender Phoenix has had in years too. This feels like tampering at this point

[tsherkin]

Sure but they're not trading Chris Paul for someone with a spotless record.

No, for sure. It's a reasonable return. I just wonder how they are going to navigate manning the point, you know? And like, whether or not Beal's scoring provides something they actually need, given that he's primarily a shooter who isn't elite.

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

Wtf?????????!!!!! Goodwin deadass better than Shamet lmaooooooo hes automatically best Poa guard defender Phoenix has had in years too. This feels like tampering at this point

"Included in the trade" is doing a lot of work there. Maybe he'll end up going to a third team to get them to take on CP3's contract.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Don't think the Wiz had much choice in where Beal went, that was all up to him. I'm surprised he picked Phoenix of the teams listed. Milwaukee and Miami both seem like they could've been more promising with better fits for him to succeed and look good doing it.

Not a big Beal guy, but yeah, no reason for Phoenix to turn that down, they were always going to be capped out.

Good for the Wiz for swallowing a tough to swallow pill.

Allegedly he did not strong arm out of miami

[MyUniBroDavis]

Beals scoring absolutely helps the team that has 2 people that can create their own shot with only one of those guys even somewhat able to get to the rim lol

People are overthinking this, too much shot creation isn’t a bad thing especially when they all can shoot. More than that Beal can get to the rim pretty well, better than KD can at the moment

They’re set offensively and defensively they might’ve gotten a solid defender at the guard spot too.

It’s nasty they got this without giving up a single first round pick

Suns are absolutely in a good position to win next year now, are they this super dominant super team, probably not, but this team if they stay healthy is a contender for sure lol

Idk why some people are treating this like a lateral move, going from cp3 to Beal as ur third guy is a stupid improvement lol, without even accounting for the injuries

[MyUniBroDavis]

Interested to see what I expect to be Point Booker, but otherwise I see this as a comfortably worse version of the 2021 Nets. Sufficiently high offence can outproduce abysmal postseason defence, but nothing indicates that is the case here.

I mean if the 2021 nets were healthy they win the title and they would absolutely wash any team today if they were healthy as well

[jalengreen]

Interested to see what I expect to be Point Booker, but otherwise I see this as a comfortably worse version of the 2021 Nets. Sufficiently high offence can outproduce abysmal postseason defence, but nothing indicates that is the case here.

I mean if the 2021 nets were healthy they win the title and they would absolutely wash any team today if they were healthy as well

Yeah but not the comfortably worse version of them lol

[MyUniBroDavis]

Interested to see what I expect to be Point Booker, but otherwise I see this as a comfortably worse version of the 2021 Nets. Sufficiently high offence can outproduce abysmal postseason defence, but nothing indicates that is the case here.

I mean if the 2021 nets were healthy they win the title and they would absolutely wash any team today if they were healthy as well

Yeah but not the comfortably worse version of them lol

That’s fair but I still think they’re clearly contenders now

The top tier of the league is way closer than it’s ever been, other than the people than the people that think the 2023 Nuggets are like comparable to the 01 lakers

[AEnigma]

I mean if the 2021 nets were healthy they win the title and they would absolutely wash any team today if they were healthy as well

Yeah but not the comfortably worse version of them lol

That’s fair but I still think they’re clearly contenders now

The top tier of the league is way closer than it’s ever been, other than the people than the people that think the 2023 Nuggets are like comparable to the 01 lakers

From the angle of, “If in the second round you had replaced Paul and Shamet with Bradley Beal, they could have looked like the second best playoff team and been a close six-game loss rather than a 2016 Raptors type of loss,” then sure, I can see that angle.

All the same, I would not be taking that team over the Nuggets themselves, or the Celtics, or a healthier Lakers team, or a better coached and healthier Bucks team. And with Beal and Durant, on a team with no depth, they do not have an expected health advantage themselves.

[The-Power]

talent usually does win out however, and it’s the common denominator at the very least in championships.

Is it really, though? Of course championship teams need talent. And of course supreme talent helps win championships. But if we look at the post-2018 era, I'd say that if anything, strong team-building around a superstar has been clearly more successful than the teams that just tried to collect superstar talent at all cost.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah but not the comfortably worse version of them lol

That’s fair but I still think they’re clearly contenders now

The top tier of the league is way closer than it’s ever been, other than the people than the people that think the 2023 Nuggets are like comparable to the 01 lakers

From the angle of, “If in the second round you had replaced Paul and Shamet with Bradley Beal, they could have looked like the second best playoff team and been a close six-game loss rather than a 2016 Raptors type of loss,” then sure, I can see that angle.

All the same, I would not be taking that team over the Nuggets themselves, or the Celtics, or a healthier Lakers team, or a better coached and healthier Bucks team. And with Beal and Durant, on a team with no depth, they do not have an expected health advantage themselves.

Celtics are hard just because they always seem to mess up somehow lol

Agree on the rest, it becomes interesting if Ayton returns to form since a lot of it was his feud with monty

I’d put Vogel + KY as a top 3 head of staff in the nba if they stick to what they’re good at. KY is the guy that gets mentioned with adelmen all the time (and I heard monty took reins last few months rip).

[HeartBreakKid]

talent usually does win out however, and it’s the common denominator at the very least in championships.

Is it really, though? Of course championship teams need talent. And of course supreme talent helps win championships. But if we look at the post-2018 era, I'd say that if anything, strong team-building around a superstar has been clearly more successful than the teams that just tried to collect superstar talent at all cost.

That's the same thing. You need superstars and all-stars to win titles. That's talent. It's not just going Brooklyn Nets style.

Most teams in the NBA do not have that and they do not do well as a result.

[The-Power]

talent usually does win out however, and it’s the common denominator at the very least in championships.

Is it really, though? Of course championship teams need talent. And of course supreme talent helps win championships. But if we look at the post-2018 era, I'd say that if anything, strong team-building around a superstar has been clearly more successful than the teams that just tried to collect superstar talent at all cost.

That's the same thing. You need superstars and all-stars to win titles. That's talent. It's not just going Brooklyn Nets style.

Most teams in the NBA do not have that and they do not do well as a result.

Are you saying the 2019 Raptors, 2021 Bucks, 2022 Warriors or 2023 Nuggets are comparable to this Suns team in terms of roster construction? You need talent to win but that's not all there is to building a championship team. The Suns have clearly chosen the path of ‘let's accumulate as much high-end talent as possible and worry about fit, depth, or the future later’ – and while that's a fair play, I'd argue that it's not nearly as successful as people tend to believe compared to other approaches in recent years.

[NO-KG-AI]

Is it really, though? Of course championship teams need talent. And of course supreme talent helps win championships. But if we look at the post-2018 era, I'd say that if anything, strong team-building around a superstar has been clearly more successful than the teams that just tried to collect superstar talent at all cost.

That's the same thing. You need superstars and all-stars to win titles. That's talent. It's not just going Brooklyn Nets style.

Most teams in the NBA do not have that and they do not do well as a result.

Are you saying the 2019 Raptors, 2021 Bucks, 2022 Warriors or 2023 Nuggets are comparable to this Suns team in terms of roster construction? You need talent to win but that's not all there is to building a championship team. The Suns have clearly chosen the path of ‘let's accumulate as much high-end talent as possible and worry about fit, depth, or the future later’ – and while that's a fair play, I'd argue that it's not nearly as successful as people tend to believe compared to other approaches in recent years.

It's honestly flopped way harder and way more often than it's gone on to be title teams. Even the Heatles first year together ended in a catastrophic disaster, and they had the best player in the league(age 26), possibly the #2 player in the league(29), and another all star who actually had more all star appearances at age 26 than Beal has even now at 29. The Heat had a lot of problems with overlap, and they were WAY more versatile and well rounded players. They collapsed at the end, and eventually figured it out while filling out more of the roster... Do the Suns even have the time to figure it out, or multiple years? Booker maybe improves, but what is more likely is that Beal and Durant continue to decline and Booker stays around the same level.

They don't have the markings of a mashup that figures it out year 1. If you want to win a title, you're still going to have to play tough, cohesive team defense, get rebounds... and teams that play "take turns" offense don't have a sterling record, and if it's going to work, I just think you're going to need much more dominant players than the 3 assembled +Ayton.

[LukaTheGOAT]

If Ayton could take another leap and get to around to Bam level, I think the Suns could be cooking. I actually feel like it is in the realm of possibilities even though it is unlikely.

[GSP]

If Ayton could take another leap and get to around to Bam level, I think the Suns could be cooking. I actually feel like it is in the realm of possibilities even though it is unlikely.

Ayton hasnt been a top 10 center the last 2 seasons......he peaked in 21, has no work ethic and is one of the softest bigs ever

Bam is a workhorse and a top 5 center. There is close to no shot Ayton is reaching that level.