Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin & Isaiah Todd TRADED to the Phoenix Suns for CP3, Shamet, six 2nd rounders, & pick swaps

Post #301 » by **montestewart** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:16 pm

80sballboy wrote:

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Nooooooooo! Not Todd too!

FAH1223 · Post #302 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:18 pm

montestewart wrote:
80sballboy wrote:

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Nooooooooo! Not Todd too!

Go-Go legend!

JWizmentality · Post #303 » by **JWizmentality** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:20 pm

Even Todd?!? I'm gutted.

AFM · Post #304 » by **AFM** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:26 pm

Trading Todd is the only good part of this deal. Means management isn’t afraid to cut our losses, even with young players.

FAH1223 · Post #305 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:35 pm

AFM wrote:Trading Todd is the only good part of this deal. Means management isn’t afraid to cut our losses, even with young players.

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FAH1223 · Post #306 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:49 pm

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80sballboy · Post #307 » by **80sballboy** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:50 pm

If you want to tank, it's probably better that you keep Todd, but I get the salary ramifications. Herbert Jones, Ayo Dosumnu, Aaron Wiggins, Jericho Sims, and Isaiah Livers all taken after Toddd.

Jay81 · Post #308 » by **Jay81** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:08 pm

Most of us would of been fine with him walking last year and us not resigning him so at least we got something. What shep did with Grufnelds mess is unforgivable and i doubt he ever gets hired again outside of european scouting(which he sucked at)

daSwami · Post #309 » by **daSwami** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:26 pm

Eesh. Todd, too. Who's next, Yannick Nzosa???? Issuf Sanon? Maker Maker? Juan Carlos Navarro?

Post #310 » by **LyricalRico** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:30 pm

daSwami wrote:Eesh. Todd, too. Who's next, Yannick Nzosa???? Issuf Sanon? Maker Maker? Juan Carlos Navarro?

I heard they're also including the rights to Peter John Ramos and a God Shamgod rookie card.

Tyrone Messby · Post #311 » by **Tyrone Messby** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:33 pm

It’s amazing how inept Tommy was at the draft. You have to try and suck that bad :lol:

mhd · Post #312 » by **mhd** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:35 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Johnny Davis is next LOL. OKC (Dawkins) probably didn't have a 1st round grade on him.

dobrojim · Post #313 » by **dobrojim** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:42 pm

I'm upset we gave up a solid low cost player in Goodwin.
But it's the whole premise of him dictating where he would
go (I understand this isn't a new thing) but it's that
attitude that insured we would get a horrible deal.

It should be tampering.

FAH1223 · Post #314 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:43 pm

Watch on YouTube

Halcyon · Post #315 » by **Halcyon** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:00 pm

daSwami wrote:Eesh. Todd, too. Who's next, Yannick Nzosa???? Issuf Sanon? Maker Maker? Juan Carlos Navarro?

Man Ernie and Tommy had a type, didn't they?

The Consiglieri · Post #316 » by **The Consiglieri** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:07 pm

montestewart wrote:Lots of good takes on the trade, from all over the spectrum. The Consiglieri is really hitting and kicking this thread.

I’m not really feeling the Beal hate. He was far from my favorite Wizard, but he’s not the first player who took advantage of perceived management/ownership weakness to get the best deal he could for himself. Arenas and Wall, two players I liked much more than Beal, both did the same thing. That’s business, and really, Terd has much more power than any of those players, he’s a billionaire. Not being a billionaire myself, I’m usually inclined to side with labor over management. Get the best deal you can.

Pretty much agree on all points.

I'm not normally an I Told You So kinda person, you can't afford to be that unless you're fine w/being a ----, and you're usually right. I'm neither so I don't like playing things that way but the Beal case was an example of the board being deluded by home town biases in media and just fandom in general. Not all the board either, just some. There were a lot of people that got snowed FOR YEARS on this, and for whatever reason, brilliant, insightful people, lost all sense of proportion when it came to Beal and what can and should be expected of athletes with a short time horizon in terms of prime and careers.

If I was ever going to believe stories about athletes and the idealism fans put on them that kind of approach was flushed down the toilet w/the revelations of numerous "angel" athletes who turned out to be duplicitous scum bags and there were an absolute litany of them the past few decades. In my view the pinnacle of that is still Kirby Puckett, everybodys loveable HOF fat guy. Who turned out to be an abusive, harassing piece of ---- off the field. After that (and I wasn't a Twins fan anyway), any inclination to believe anything athletes tell the media w/o a skeptical eye was donezo for me.

So the whole Beal loves DC and wants to build a winner here argument always struck me as utter nonsense and total bull----, what he loved about DC was getting the bag. Could he love the city too? Maybe, but not more than getting the bag and competing for titles, and he wanted both and always both just like 99% of athletes (there are rare exceptions but they are exceptionally rare). Remember when Wall fell down out of the shower there was no longer ANY route to contending for a title. NONE. Well, okay, there was one exception: The only possible way to do it was either to win the lottery with our own ping pong balls in a stud year, or with someone else's, barring that, ZERO chance, and we already know that the 2020 draft ended up being disappointing, so really the only avenues open to land a transformative superstar were 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023. We could be smart, and trade for assets in any of those years, or we could be dumb, and buy the patently obvious bull---- stupidity of paying him the max, and then watching him demand a trade once his contract became an injured Wall level albatross rather than a valuable asset in 2019-spring '22. We went w/the latter option. We were the idiots here. Sure Beal is a duplicitous -----, but he's also a human being pursuing the maximization of his career potential, who else wouldn't? What were the Wiz gonna do the next few years? Nada.

All you had to do was open your eyes to see what was coming. The fact that so few did until it was too late is mind boggling to me. The fact that multiple front offices and our owner never saw this coming is just, there's not even a word for how naive and pathetic that is, it's owner and front office mal practice on a scale nobody has seen in decades.

Regardless, it is what it is, we always had to trade the contract once he endeavored to make the horrific signing and we were never going to get squat for him of real tangible value once he had that anchor of a deal around his waist. So I don't blame this FO at all, its not their fault the previous one and the owner were 10000% totally incompetent in their dealings with Beal the past four years.

The last note on this is the real ugly one. As the FO strips this team for parts this offseason, very few parts at that, the rebuild will commence with far fewer pieces of tangible building value as other teams have utilized like the Sixers, the Rockets, OKC and the like, and even worse, we were too stupid to do this when we had four good/great classes in the last five years. Instead we're stripping for parts just in time for back to back classes currently carrying "below average" grades from the scouts. So that means this will be a sub 20 win team, if they really strip it to the roots, for at least 3-5 years minimum, and getting very little of value for those tank seasons because yet again, we have tanked at the wrong time.

Soooooo Wizards.

I will likely be 60 before this team can even not jokingly refer to the possibility of being a conference contender, let alone a real one (I'm 48 right now). You simply can't build a competitive team from what I understand w/the next two classes, so at best we start building the real pieces circa '26 and beyond meaning we likely don't contend until at least the end of this decade. But lets be real, we haven't contended for nearly 45 years. What's another decade at this point (needless to say, I do not believe we will ever contend in my life time. This team has been trash since I first started paying attention as a 5th grader in 1985).

FAH1223 · Post #317 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:09 pm

LOL

Isiah Thomas is playing shadow GM in Phoenix

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badinage · Post #318 » by **badinage** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:44 pm

dobrojim wrote:I'm upset we gave up a solid low cost player in Goodwin.
But it's the whole premise of him dictating where he would
go (I understand this isn't a new thing) but it's that
attitude that insured we would get a horrible deal.

It should be tampering.

It *is* tampering. (And by the way: KD admitted as much, in testifying to a reporter that he recruited Beal to the Suns.)

And it’s also vindictive.

Letter of the law? Perhaps. But not at all the spirit of the law.

What we saw yesterday is the way our system — as a country, not just the NBA — operates. In all its venality.

badinage · Post #319 » by **badinage** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:56 pm

I’m reading a bunch of takes, here and elsewhere, to the effect of: this is what anyone would have done, what we all would have done.

Would we?

I wouldn’t have. At a certain point, how much money do you need? And: how much do you need the other person to lose?

Also:

Yes, sports owners are not loyal at all. They trade players like that. It’s what they’ve always done. Cut and trade, and without warning.

But to speak of this relationship in that cliched binary way is utterly wrong.

It’s not Beal vs. owner. Or player X vs. owner X.

The fan base is part of this equation. I predate Leonsis by thirty years. Some fans even more than that.

Beal did not do right by us yesterday. He could have gotten what he wanted, and still sought a win-win. He spurned that. Spurned it, and stomped on the very idea of it. He sought all the chips. Every last chip.

Sure, sure, Tommy Sheppard and Leonsis mismanaged this franchise for years. I have deep scorn for them for that.

But there’s a difference between that and what Beal did.

Stupidity is not the same as venality.

Bumbling is not the same as ruthlessness and vindictiveness.

queridiculo · Post #320 » by **queridiculo** » Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:17 pm

badinage wrote:Beal did not do right by us yesterday. He could have gotten what he wanted, and still sought a win-win. He spurned that. Spurned it, and stomped on the very idea of it. He sought all the chips. Every last chip.

Sure, sure, Tommy Sheppard and Leonsis mismanaged this franchise for years. I have deep scorn for them for that.

But there’s a difference between that and what Beal did.

Stupidity is not the same as venality.

Bumbling is not the same as ruthlessness and vindictiveness.

I don't get this fascination with boot licking for billionaires, especially not for the kind that don't give a flying **** for the poor saps that buy their awful products.

This is BUSINESS, how long have we had to hear Leonsis go on and on and on about how big of a genius entrepreneur he is :lol:

Always on the side of labor, good riddance, but also good luck to Beal.

Leonsis?

He still gets the middle finger.

Like the deal?