The Naz Reid Thread

[Biff Cooper]

I wanted to clarify how much teams could pay for Naz in their first year of his contract as an Unrestricted Free Agent

Teams that are over the luxury threshold: $7 mil (taxpayer, midlevel exception)
Teams that are over the salary cap, but under the lux: $11.2 (non-taxpayer midlevel exception)
Teams that are under the salary cap: any amount, up to their cap space
Minnesota: any amount (Bird rights)

(BRK is the only team with a TPE big enough for Naz)

There is obviously on-court value to the Wolves in bringing him back. But there could be value in bringing him back in a sign-and-trade for asset control. The key would be that a team in the first two groups is willing to pay Naz more than any cap space team, PLUS give us some minor compensation.

Shrink - Let's say Lore, A-Rod and Taylor decide they don't care about the Luxury Tax and are doubling down on their all-in with the Gobert deal. The NAW cap hold is $15M where the Naz cap hold is only $1.8M. Could the Timberwolves first sign NAW to a $6-7M per year deal, then sign a free agent to a ~$9M per year deal (up to the lux minus the Naz cap hold - possibly Garza cap hold too), then re-sign Naz to a $15M per year deal, all while keeping Prince, McLaughlin, and Knight? Then re-sign Garza to a minimum deal and have a 15 man roster at ~$15M over the luxury tax?

[shrink]

I wanted to clarify how much teams could pay for Naz in their first year of his contract as an Unrestricted Free Agent

Teams that are over the luxury threshold: $7 mil (taxpayer, midlevel exception)
Teams that are over the salary cap, but under the lux: $11.2 (non-taxpayer midlevel exception)
Teams that are under the salary cap: any amount, up to their cap space
Minnesota: any amount (Bird rights)

(BRK is the only team with a TPE big enough for Naz)

There is obviously on-court value to the Wolves in bringing him back. But there could be value in bringing him back in a sign-and-trade for asset control. The key would be that a team in the first two groups is willing to pay Naz more than any cap space team, PLUS give us some minor compensation.

Shrink - Let's say Lore, A-Rod and Taylor decide they don't care about the Luxury Tax and are doubling down on their all-in with the Gobert deal. The NAW cap hold is $15M where the Naz cap hold is only $1.8M. Could the Timberwolves first sign NAW to a $6-7M per year deal, then sign a free agent to a ~$9M per year deal (up to the lux minus the Naz cap hold - possibly Garza cap hold too), then re-sign Naz to a $15M per year deal, all while keeping Prince, McLaughlin, and Knight? Then re-sign Garza to a minimum deal and have a 15 man roster at ~$15M over the luxury tax?

That’s a great question, that really demonstrates an understanding of the situation, but the answer is no.

You are 100% correct that the order of signing players affects what you can do, and signing Naz last would be the right play. If we were talking about staying under the salary cap, everything you said would be true, and that’s exactly the order to do it in.

The problem is that we’re over the salary cap, so the CBA tries to limit the ways a team can add salary by limiting them to Bird rights and exceptions. Step One works - we sign NAW with Bird Rights, and reduce his cap hold. Step Two though is the problem. If we sign a free agent, we need to use an exception to do it. To sign a $9 mil guy, we’d need to use that Non Taxpayer MLE, and that would hard cap us, and not allow us to add further salary that would take us above the apron. However, I believe it would be legal to do this deal using the tax-payer MLE (reduced to just $5 mil in the new CBA), but I’d have to check. [EDIT - nope, still illegal]

[SO_MONEY]

Well, Naz will have to wait for the part in blue no matter what as the NBA schedule is not up to him—so 50% of what the poster is saying is 100% correct.

Thanks captain obvious. I didn't say it wasn't.

Well, if you didn’t ignore the half he said that was 100% relevant, and instead focused on only your negative interpretation of the other half of what he said, I wouldn’t have needed to say anything.

I didn't ignore half of what he said, I responded to the the part worth responding to. I don't need to nor do I think they expect affirmation and a pat people on the back for the self-evident. It goes without saying it is correct.

But you are such an internet tough guy you can't resist getting into a fight over nothing because you don't like me. F-off.

[Biff Cooper]

I wanted to clarify how much teams could pay for Naz in their first year of his contract as an Unrestricted Free Agent

Teams that are over the luxury threshold: $7 mil (taxpayer, midlevel exception)
Teams that are over the salary cap, but under the lux: $11.2 (non-taxpayer midlevel exception)
Teams that are under the salary cap: any amount, up to their cap space
Minnesota: any amount (Bird rights)

(BRK is the only team with a TPE big enough for Naz)

There is obviously on-court value to the Wolves in bringing him back. But there could be value in bringing him back in a sign-and-trade for asset control. The key would be that a team in the first two groups is willing to pay Naz more than any cap space team, PLUS give us some minor compensation.

Shrink - Let's say Lore, A-Rod and Taylor decide they don't care about the Luxury Tax and are doubling down on their all-in with the Gobert deal. The NAW cap hold is $15M where the Naz cap hold is only $1.8M. Could the Timberwolves first sign NAW to a $6-7M per year deal, then sign a free agent to a ~$9M per year deal (up to the lux minus the Naz cap hold - possibly Garza cap hold too), then re-sign Naz to a $15M per year deal, all while keeping Prince, McLaughlin, and Knight? Then re-sign Garza to a minimum deal and have a 15 man roster at ~$15M over the luxury tax?

That’s a great question, that really demonstrates an understanding of the situation, but the answer is no.

You are 100% correct that the order of signing players affects what you can do, and signing Naz last would be the right play. If we were talking about staying under the salary cap, everything you said would be true, and that’s exactly the order to do it in.

The problem is that we’re over the salary cap, so the CBA tries to limit the ways a team can add salary by limiting them to Bird rights and exceptions. Step One works - we sign NAW with Bird Rights, and reduce his cap hold. Step Two though is the problem. If we sign a free agent, we need to use an exception to do it. To sign a $9 mil guy, we’d need to use that Non Taxpayer MLE, and that would hard cap us, and not allow us to add further salary that would take us above the apron. However, I believe it would be legal to do this deal using the tax-payer MLE (reduced to just $5 mil in the new CBA), but I’d have to check.

My goal with the ~$9M MLE deal (instead of the full $11.2 MLE deal) would be to get us right up to the luxury line. Would that make any difference? Are we Hard-Capped only once we go over the luxury tax point, or are we Hard-Capped from doing deals that will put us over the luxury tax point?

[shrink]

Shrink - Let's say Lore, A-Rod and Taylor decide they don't care about the Luxury Tax and are doubling down on their all-in with the Gobert deal. The NAW cap hold is $15M where the Naz cap hold is only $1.8M. Could the Timberwolves first sign NAW to a $6-7M per year deal, then sign a free agent to a ~$9M per year deal (up to the lux minus the Naz cap hold - possibly Garza cap hold too), then re-sign Naz to a $15M per year deal, all while keeping Prince, McLaughlin, and Knight? Then re-sign Garza to a minimum deal and have a 15 man roster at ~$15M over the luxury tax?

That’s a great question, that really demonstrates an understanding of the situation, but the answer is no.

You are 100% correct that the order of signing players affects what you can do, and signing Naz last would be the right play. If we were talking about staying under the salary cap, everything you said would be true, and that’s exactly the order to do it in.

The problem is that we’re over the salary cap, so the CBA tries to limit the ways a team can add salary by limiting them to Bird rights and exceptions. Step One works - we sign NAW with Bird Rights, and reduce his cap hold. Step Two though is the problem. If we sign a free agent, we need to use an exception to do it. To sign a $9 mil guy, we’d need to use that Non Taxpayer MLE, and that would hard cap us, and not allow us to add further salary that would take us above the apron. However, I believe it would be legal to do this deal using the tax-payer MLE (reduced to just $5 mil in the new CBA), but I’d have to check.

My goal with the ~$9M MLE deal (instead of the full $11.2 MLE deal) would be to get us right up to the luxury line. Would that make any difference? Are we Hard-Capped only once we go over the luxury tax point, or are we Hard-Capped from doing deals that will put us over the luxury tax point?

I get you. The hard cap is immediately triggered any time a team acquires a player by sign-and-trade, or uses either MLE or the BAE a to acquire a player. Once a team is hardcapped, they can’t do any transaction that would take them over the apron, which is about $7 mil over the lux.

The only mechanism we would have that would allow us to add free agents without triggering the hard cap and limiting our Naz offer to $7 mil would be to fill up on vet min free agents.

[thinktank]

Thanks captain obvious. I didn't say it wasn't.

Well, if you didn’t ignore the half he said that was 100% relevant, and instead focused on only your negative interpretation of the other half of what he said, I wouldn’t have needed to say anything.

I didn't ignore half of what he said, I responded to the the part worth responding to. I don't need to nor do I think they expect affirmation and a pat people on the back for the self-evident. It goes without saying it is correct.

But you are such an internet tough guy you can't resist getting into a fight over nothing because you don't like me. F-off.

If Towns is traded before the beginning of FA, Naz may not wait for other teams at all.

[Klomp]

If the offers are similar, would Naz want to come back? He has friends on the team. He can play a role here, as evidenced by the end of last year. But I’d think he’d want a bigger role than one behind KAT/Gobert. Maybe I’m wrong on that. I don’t think he’s a starting center, but he’s improved so much, he’s a very good third big.

Something to keep in mind...more minutes doesn't necessarily equate to a bigger role, especially as it equates to the PF/C positions. I'm actually not sure any team can offer him as strong a situation as he has here on a good team, even if Towns stays on the roster. Go back and watch the last two weeks Reid had before he got hurt. Skeptics will look at how he only averaged 21.7 minutes per game in that stretch and push him for a bigger role, but in those minutes he averaged 12.5 FGAs and scored 18.1 points per game. Per 100 possesions for the season, Naz Reid finished 20th in the NBA in field goals made. He has a very significant role here.

[Slim Tubby]

I would be concerned about an offer from OKC. They have cap space, need frontcourt help and he fits their timeline.

[MN7725]

I would be concerned about an offer from OKC. They have cap space, need frontcourt help and he fits their timeline.

good call
they also seem to prioritize players that can handle the ball to some extent, no strictly catch/shoot players like a Beasley for example, no rim runners

and Naz can initiate offense

[Guest84]

I think Naz is gone. Without knowing what teams have available to spend, I could see him going to Miami if they don't get another star player. I think he would fit in well there too.

[thinktank]

I think Naz is gone. Without knowing what teams have available to spend, I could see him going to Miami if they don't get another star player. I think he would fit in well there too.

Maybe.

They can only pay him what we can pay him. I actually like the way we played Denver and I have to think that Naz would think that if he was healthy things would’ve been different. That could apply to the Heat too, but what are the odds that the Heat replicate that success again, even with Naz?

[shrink]

I was 99% sure Naz was gone three months ago. Now — not so sure.

1. Did I hear Naz was one of the players working out here in Minnesota? If so, this is a big deal, particularly if he’s doing work on the court. Remember, Naz has no contract whatsoever, and he hasn’t made much money. Almost any guy in his UFA situation stays away from workouts, where an injury could cost him millions and millions of dollars.

2. It sounds like Ant and McDaniels are begging him to stay. And Connelly and ownership want to keep them happy.

3. The $3 mil rise in the lux is a big deal for MIN, which may give them just enough room to come close to the offer from another team, and still address their need for a back up PG.

These things are important news. I braced myself months ago for Naz’ departure, but now I think there is a legit chance.

[wolves_89]

Thinking on the Naz situation, I started to wonder if signing him to a 1+1 deal at a little over the MLE might work. That would give the team time to figure out how they want to proceed with Towns/Gobert. It would give Naz the flexibility to hit free agency again next off-season if he doesn't like his role and also provides him some protection in case of injury. If Reid and the team like where things stand a year from now (may have moved on from one of Towns or Gobert), they could work out an extension to keep Naz around long term.

[Guest84]

I was 99% sure Naz was gone three months ago. Now — not so sure.

1. Did I hear Naz was one of the players working out here in Minnesota? If so, this is a big deal, particularly if he’s doing work on the court. Remember, Naz has no contract whatsoever, and he hasn’t made much money. Almost any guy in his UFA situation stays away from workouts, where an injury could cost him millions and millions of dollars.

2. It sounds like Ant and McDaniels are begging him to stay. And Connelly and ownership want to keep them happy.

3. The $3 mil rise in the lux is a big deal for MIN, which may give them just enough room to come close to the offer from another team, and still address their need for a back up PG.

These things are important news. I braced myself months ago for Naz’ departure, but now I think there is a legit chance.

In regards to Naz being here, I heard it’s partly cause he’s still going through rehab and isn’t going full tilt in workouts.

There’s still the understanding that there’s prob going to be some good suitors for him with better situations in terms of role, playing time, pay etc.

Keep in mind, until he agrees to go somewhere else he does still live here. So it makes sense.

I still think there’s a chance he stays but only time will tell.

[shrink]

Thinking on the Naz situation, I started to wonder if signing him to a 1+1 deal at a little over the MLE might work. That would give the team time to figure out how they want to proceed with Towns/Gobert. It would give Naz the flexibility to hit free agency again next off-season if he doesn't like his role and also provides him some protection in case of injury. If Reid and the team like where things stand a year from now (may have moved on from one of Towns or Gobert), they could work out an extension to keep Naz around long term.

Reid would really be betting on himself not to get hurt if he chose to take a 1+1 if some other teams 4-year guaranteed offer.

[shrink]

I still don’t think we know Naz can play PF. I heard on a podcast yesterday that he played 200 minutes alongside Gobert, and the team had a Net -10 Rating.

Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to be a PF, and with his new body and great work ethic, I wouldn’t bet against him. Maybe he can learn to play PF next to Rudy, or maybe KAT plays PF with Naz playing center? I just think right now, it’s too soon to say he can be a PF.

[Domejandro]

I still don’t think we know Naz can play PF. I heard on a podcast yesterday that he played 200 minutes alongside Gobert, and the team had a Net -10 Rating.

Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to be a PF, and with his new body and great work ethic, I wouldn’t bet against him. Maybe he can learn to play PF next to Rudy, or maybe KAT plays PF with Naz playing center? I just think right now, it’s too soon to say he can be a PF.

Oh, we definitely know... that he absolutely can't play Power-Forward unless he develops a ton. Those Naz Reid and Rudy Gobert minutes were absolutely tragic, and I feel gaslit everytime I read positive things about it on the internet.

[TimberKat]

It's too bad that a sign and trade of Naz for Smart isn't going to happen.

[younggunsmn]

I still don’t think we know Naz can play PF. I heard on a podcast yesterday that he played 200 minutes alongside Gobert, and the team had a Net -10 Rating.

Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t learn to be a PF, and with his new body and great work ethic, I wouldn’t bet against him. Maybe he can learn to play PF next to Rudy, or maybe KAT plays PF with Naz playing center? I just think right now, it’s too soon to say he can be a PF.

Oh, we definitely know... that he absolutely can't play Power-Forward unless he develops a ton. Those Naz Reid and Rudy Gobert minutes were absolutely tragic, and I feel gaslit everytime I read positive things about it on the internet.

Every player on the team with the possible exception of Conley looked worse on offense when playing next to Gobert.
Don't put that all on Naz.

Naz is at his absolute best a stretch 5 though because it gives him the most favorable matchups.
He can shoot and attack closeouts. He may be better at attacking closeouts and dribble driving than KAT is right now.
I still prefer him at the 4 to the absolute tragedy that is Prince or McDaniels trying to defend and rebound there.

[shrink]

Every player on the team with the possible exception of Conley looked worse on offense when playing next to Gobert.
Don't put that all on Naz.

Net Ratings

+7.1 Gobert-Anderson. 1088 minutes
+3.2. Gobert-Conley. 611 minutes
+1.9. Gobert-McDaniels. 1528 minutes
+1.2. Gobert-Edwards. 1639 minutes
+0.6. Gobert-Towns. 529 minutes
+0.2. Gobert-Russell. 1103 minutes

-12.7. Gobert-Naz. 199 minutes

In those minutes, Naz was certainly a PF. I don’t think we have good evidence that Naz is already a PF.