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Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#401 » by VaDe255 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:05 pm

Rapaz wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:The first domino is falling into place: Hornets are going for Miller.
Now the next have to fall: Portland drafts Scoot and does not trade for upgrades; Dame asks out; Dame really wants Miami; Portland FO complies with Dames wish and takes an acceptable but mabye worse offer than is out there

I'm upgrading the chance from negative zero of Dame landing in Heat uniform to almost zero.

Let it go. Dame will not be joining your franchise. He’s locked up in Portland. Focus on re-signing Max Strus.


Scoot is likely the #3 pick and a good start to rebuild around the young talent they already have.
The path of trading that talent away to risk it all on a 2-3 year window, where they might put a roster together that can compete seems very risky.
I think they won't do it, just makes too much sense to rebuild.

Don't expect anything to happen fast, probably trade deadline, but Dame is gone by then to someone.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#402 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:07 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Read on Twitter

Your going to be seeing, Miami play the Jovic's, Heismith's, this years 18th pick unfortunately upcoming due to the tax restrictions. Also minimum level players on 1 year deals.

I don't think it's going to be this bad. The team will creatively figure out a way to improve the roster with the expiring of Lowry and the possibility of dumping Oladipo's salary or stretching it giving us the opportunity to use the TAX MLE at very least. If you stretch Oladipo it gives us about 6 million worth of cap space away from the 2nd apron. I still think we need to shave off more or bring back less money when we make a trade. We will be making trades. The league as a whole have some teams in some trouble that need to get off some certain amount of salary. Not saying we are going to be stupid and give up Lowry and Oladipo for one player making a stupid amount of money but we can tactically take on some salary as long as it's within the confines of not destroying the cap next year.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#403 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:10 pm

VaDe255 wrote:
Rapaz wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:The first domino is falling into place: Hornets are going for Miller.
Now the next have to fall: Portland drafts Scoot and does not trade for upgrades; Dame asks out; Dame really wants Miami; Portland FO complies with Dames wish and takes an acceptable but mabye worse offer than is out there

I'm upgrading the chance from negative zero of Dame landing in Heat uniform to almost zero.

Let it go. Dame will not be joining your franchise. He’s locked up in Portland. Focus on re-signing Max Strus.


Scoot is likely the #3 pick and a good start to rebuild around the young talent they already have.
The path of trading that talent away to risk it all on a 2-3 year window, where they might put a roster together that can compete seems very risky.
I think they won't do it, just makes too much sense to rebuild.

Don't expect anything to happen fast, probably trade deadline, but Dame is a gone by then to someone.

If they draft Scoot as I expect they give it a go with him coming off the bench as the third guard with Lillard and Simons. Lillard can easily move to the 2 guard spot when Scoot comes in. Let's also not forget that Portland has money to spend in free agency. This has a very long way too go. Nothing is going to be done imminently. Lillard can't even be officially traded until July 9th. But then they could have signed free agents of Lillard's choosing all while having Scoot on the roster.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#404 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:11 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Read on Twitter

Your going to be seeing, Miami play the Jovic's, Heismith's, this years 18th pick unfortunately upcoming due to the tax restrictions. Also minimum level players on 1 year deals.

I don't think it's going to be this bad. The team will creatively figure out a way to improve the roster with the expiring of Lowry and the possibility of dumping Oladipo's salary or stretching it giving us the opportunity to use the TAX MLE at very least. If you stretch Oladipo it gives us about 6 million worth of cap space away from the 2nd apron. I still think we need to shave off more or bring back less money when we make a trade. We will be making trades. The league as a whole have some teams in some trouble that need to get off some certain amount of salary. Not saying we are going to be stupid and give up Lowry and Oladipo for one player making a stupid amount of money but we can tactically take on some salary as long as it's within the confines of not destroying the cap next year.

Exactly this. The Heat for the first time in a long time actually have a lot of useful contracts to play with the match salary.

Regardless of the big game hunting stuff, the goal should be to turn the $40million in expiring salary that Dipo and Lowry make and the $19mill that Duncan makes, into usable functional rotation pieces for us.

As much as everyone wants a splashy star, we don’t need that to compete. What we do need though is a more balanced foster. Right now we have almost $60million invested in bench players or injured players (Lowry/Duncan/Dipo).

You have to find a way to turn that money into functional help, particularly in the front court.

A guy like Marcus Morris is a great option, he’s an expiring as well. Maybe he can be bad from the clippers for Lowry plus some sweetener.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#405 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:16 pm

Also there is no way this happens but Lowry/Dipo basically equals Tobias Harris’s salary and Harris is an expiring this year. Wonder if there is anything to be done there. Lowry is a Philly boy. Don’t know if I immediately see a trade that works for the Sixers though. And I don’t like him enough to offer real stuff.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#406 » by greg4012 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:18 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:
Rapaz wrote:Let it go. Dame will not be joining your franchise. He’s locked up in Portland. Focus on re-signing Max Strus.


Scoot is likely the #3 pick and a good start to rebuild around the young talent they already have.
The path of trading that talent away to risk it all on a 2-3 year window, where they might put a roster together that can compete seems very risky.
I think they won't do it, just makes too much sense to rebuild.

Don't expect anything to happen fast, probably trade deadline, but Dame is a gone by then to someone.

If they draft Scoot as I expect they give it a go with him coming off the bench as the third guard with Lillard and Simons. Lillard can easily move to the 2 guard spot when Scoot comes in. Let's also not forget that Portland has money to spend in free agency. This has a very long way too go. Nothing is going to be done imminently. Lillard can't even be officially traded until July 9th. But then they could have signed free agents of Lillard's choosing all while having Scoot on the roster.


Worst defensive backcourt in NBA.

For Rapaz's sake, I hope they figure out a huge upgrade to the defensive impact of their projected frontcourt. Grant has been a non participant on defense with the tools to fool for years and Nurkic ain't it.

That's a ROUGH team construction.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#407 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:21 pm

QUIZ wrote:Also there is no way this happens but Lowry/Dipo basically equals Tobias Harris’s salary and Harris is an expiring this year. Wonder if there is anything to be done there. Lowry is a Philly boy. Don’t know if I immediately see a trade that works for the Sixers though. And I don’t like him enough to offer real stuff.

Doubt that deal comes to fruition. I did mention last night a deal of Powell and RoCo from the Clippers for Kyle. 29.6 in and out but the reason why the Clippers do it is to get out from Powell's deal next year to ease up the tax burden killing that team. We take on Powell's 18 but also get RoCo's expiring 11.6. It's a better use of Lowry's big cap figure and also getting Powell you don't have to worry about needing the bird right's to sign Max Strus. Powell is a way better player then Max and a perfect scoring fit coming off the bench and brings great defense.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#408 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:23 pm

greg4012 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
VaDe255 wrote:
Scoot is likely the #3 pick and a good start to rebuild around the young talent they already have.
The path of trading that talent away to risk it all on a 2-3 year window, where they might put a roster together that can compete seems very risky.
I think they won't do it, just makes too much sense to rebuild.

Don't expect anything to happen fast, probably trade deadline, but Dame is a gone by then to someone.

If they draft Scoot as I expect they give it a go with him coming off the bench as the third guard with Lillard and Simons. Lillard can easily move to the 2 guard spot when Scoot comes in. Let's also not forget that Portland has money to spend in free agency. This has a very long way too go. Nothing is going to be done imminently. Lillard can't even be officially traded until July 9th. But then they could have signed free agents of Lillard's choosing all while having Scoot on the roster.


Worst defensive backcourt in NBA.

For Rapaz's sake, I hope they figure out a huge upgrade to the defensive impact of their projected frontcourt. Grant has been a non participant on defense with the tools to fool for years and Nurkic ain't it.

That's a ROUGH team construction.

I have a feeling they end up signing Draymond and try and move Grant via S&T
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#409 » by IceColdCubano » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:26 pm

QUIZ wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:Your going to be seeing, Miami play the Jovic's, Heismith's, this years 18th pick unfortunately upcoming due to the tax restrictions. Also minimum level players on 1 year deals.

I don't think it's going to be this bad. The team will creatively figure out a way to improve the roster with the expiring of Lowry and the possibility of dumping Oladipo's salary or stretching it giving us the opportunity to use the TAX MLE at very least. If you stretch Oladipo it gives us about 6 million worth of cap space away from the 2nd apron. I still think we need to shave off more or bring back less money when we make a trade. We will be making trades. The league as a whole have some teams in some trouble that need to get off some certain amount of salary. Not saying we are going to be stupid and give up Lowry and Oladipo for one player making a stupid amount of money but we can tactically take on some salary as long as it's within the confines of not destroying the cap next year.

Exactly this. The Heat for the first time in a long time actually have a lot of useful contracts to play with the match salary.

Regardless of the big game hunting stuff, the goal should be to turn the $40million in expiring salary that Dipo and Lowry make and the $19mill that Duncan makes, into usable functional rotation pieces for us.

As much as everyone wants a splashy star, we don’t need that to compete. What we do need though is a more balanced foster. Right now we have almost $60million invested in bench players or injured players (Lowry/Duncan/Dipo).

You have to find a way to turn that money into functional help, particularly in the front court.

A guy like Marcus Morris is a great option, he’s an expiring as well. Maybe he can be bad from the clippers for Lowry plus some sweetener.


I may have been a little too contrived on my previous post but the main point still stands.
Finally looking at our tax situation and listening to the experts along with Pat Riley press, tells me the type of wall that were facing.

You guys make it seem like we have all these moving parts, that interchangeable and capable of giving us lots of options its just not true.

Lets start with Oladipo, it doesn't help the team to stretch him this year, it would be more beneficial for us to let him expire next year to help us get out of the 2nd Apron. You could also trade him but it will need to be for another 1 year rental near his salary but since hes injured why would a team even do that to begin with. Unless Miami puts him a big deal for a big time player because the other team wants some expiring contracts its going to be hard to move his dead weight, which frankly helps us if we keep him.

Lowry again similar to Oladipo except far more likely to be used in a trade falls under the same, issue you cannot pair him up with a multiyear contract because you need his salary to drop at least by 1/3 if Oladipo stays and by 2/3 if Oladipo is traded for non expiring contract. Which means Miami if cannot do a 1 for 1 trade for Lowry would need to get back 2 players, 1 of them can have a multiyear deal, the other needs to be a smaller expiring.

As you can see, its not going to be as easy peasy as we think, contenders who are going to go over the 2nd Apron who have certain needs may be the ones you can get these types of assets where you trade expirings for expirings at different positions of need.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#410 » by greg4012 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:27 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:If they draft Scoot as I expect they give it a go with him coming off the bench as the third guard with Lillard and Simons. Lillard can easily move to the 2 guard spot when Scoot comes in. Let's also not forget that Portland has money to spend in free agency. This has a very long way too go. Nothing is going to be done imminently. Lillard can't even be officially traded until July 9th. But then they could have signed free agents of Lillard's choosing all while having Scoot on the roster.


Worst defensive backcourt in NBA.

For Rapaz's sake, I hope they figure out a huge upgrade to the defensive impact of their projected frontcourt. Grant has been a non participant on defense with the tools to fool for years and Nurkic ain't it.

That's a ROUGH team construction.

I have a feeling they end up signing Draymond and try and move Grant via S&T


That'd be interesting--it'd give them one defender. That is 33 years old--albeit very good on defense. Jurkic fit is wonky as hell.

I can see them going for that tho. That's the half-ass attempt to build something for now lol
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#411 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:27 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
thats so dumb..... never ever pick on "fit" when dealing with nba draft

always pick on the best talent, and if fit is redundant, find out which one is better and trade the other one for proven vet to fit

Imagine if the Heat passed up on Wade because we already had Eddie Jones on the roster :lol: Actually, that's what Pat wanted to do. He wanted to draft Chris Kaman for fit. I forget who it was, but someone else convinced him to draft Wade instead


Some people believe Brandon Miller is a better talent.

Brandon Miller was the best college hooper last year. Scoot was playing the the G league. Not sure why it’s a crazy notion that Miller is going above. Also Miller was performing during the whole gun fiasco showing the kid has got some serious mental fortitude.


He’s damn good and I like his upside a lot; he also choked something serious in the tourney and it isn’t talked about at all
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#412 » by DayofMourning » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:28 pm

The media reports of PLand going after Bam are pretty silly. Miami wants to give all its assets for a 34 year old who isnt close to contending on his current team. Local mouthpieces then come up with a story to balance out the scenario by asking for 25 year old team centerpiece Bam Adebayo....

I mean, one situation is super obvious and realistic, while the other is just stupid.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#413 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:28 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
QUIZ wrote:Also there is no way this happens but Lowry/Dipo basically equals Tobias Harris’s salary and Harris is an expiring this year. Wonder if there is anything to be done there. Lowry is a Philly boy. Don’t know if I immediately see a trade that works for the Sixers though. And I don’t like him enough to offer real stuff.

Doubt that deal comes to fruition. I did mention last night a deal of Powell and RoCo from the Clippers for Kyle. 29.6 in and out but the reason why the Clippers do it is to get out from Powell's deal next year to ease up the tax burden killing that team. We take on Powell's 18 but also get RoCo's expiring 11.6. It's a better use of Lowry's big cap figure and also getting Powell you don't have to worry about needing the bird right's to sign Max Strus. Powell is a way better player than Max and a perfect scoring fit coming off the bench and brings great defense.

Yeah I see that. I think ultimately if you’re the Heat, you need to see what our expirings plus pick 18 can get you. Lots of teams are going to want to get off salary under the new CBA.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#414 » by Rapaz » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:29 pm

greg4012 wrote:Worst defensive backcourt in NBA.

For Rapaz's sake, I hope they figure out a huge upgrade to the defensive impact of their projected frontcourt. Grant has been a non participant on defense with the tools to fool for years and Nurkic ain't it.

That's a ROUGH team construction.

Greg,

In the purist Pacific Northwest, we don’t watch the game to collect trophies or banners or for a few fleeting championship “memories.” We watch for love of sport.

The Blazers can go 0-82 and the Rose Garden would still be packed to the brim every night.

A “ROUGH” team construction just adds to the glory of #TheGrind.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#415 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:30 pm

There is no avenue to Portland becoming a championship team, especially if they’re unwilling to move off Sharpe
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#416 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:31 pm

DayofMourning wrote:The media reports of PLand going after Bam are pretty silly. Miami wants to give all its assets for a 34 year old who isnt close to contending on his current team. Local mouthpieces then come up with a story to balance out the scenario by asking for 25 year old team centerpiece Bam Adebayo....

I mean, one situation is super obvious and realistic, while the other is just stupid.


They saw Wade with Lillard and flipped tf out :lol:

Only 32 btw!!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#417 » by IceColdCubano » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:31 pm

QUIZ wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
QUIZ wrote:Also there is no way this happens but Lowry/Dipo basically equals Tobias Harris’s salary and Harris is an expiring this year. Wonder if there is anything to be done there. Lowry is a Philly boy. Don’t know if I immediately see a trade that works for the Sixers though. And I don’t like him enough to offer real stuff.

Doubt that deal comes to fruition. I did mention last night a deal of Powell and RoCo from the Clippers for Kyle. 29.6 in and out but the reason why the Clippers do it is to get out from Powell's deal next year to ease up the tax burden killing that team. We take on Powell's 18 but also get RoCo's expiring 11.6. It's a better use of Lowry's big cap figure and also getting Powell you don't have to worry about needing the bird right's to sign Max Strus. Powell is a way better player than Max and a perfect scoring fit coming off the bench and brings great defense.

Yeah I see that. I think ultimately if you’re the Heat, you need to see what our expirings plus pick 18 can get you. Lots of teams are going to want to get off salary under the new CBA.

Except Miami also needs to get under salary so expecting to trade Lowry(a large Expiring) & #18(a cheap deal) for a multi year large contract is not something Miami will do. Pat Riley made this abundantly clear in his press conference.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#418 » by QUIZ » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:36 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
QUIZ wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:I don't think it's going to be this bad. The team will creatively figure out a way to improve the roster with the expiring of Lowry and the possibility of dumping Oladipo's salary or stretching it giving us the opportunity to use the TAX MLE at very least. If you stretch Oladipo it gives us about 6 million worth of cap space away from the 2nd apron. I still think we need to shave off more or bring back less money when we make a trade. We will be making trades. The league as a whole have some teams in some trouble that need to get off some certain amount of salary. Not saying we are going to be stupid and give up Lowry and Oladipo for one player making a stupid amount of money but we can tactically take on some salary as long as it's within the confines of not destroying the cap next year.

Exactly this. The Heat for the first time in a long time actually have a lot of useful contracts to play with the match salary.

Regardless of the big game hunting stuff, the goal should be to turn the $40million in expiring salary that Dipo and Lowry make and the $19mill that Duncan makes, into usable functional rotation pieces for us.

As much as everyone wants a splashy star, we don’t need that to compete. What we do need though is a more balanced foster. Right now we have almost $60million invested in bench players or injured players (Lowry/Duncan/Dipo).

You have to find a way to turn that money into functional help, particularly in the front court.

A guy like Marcus Morris is a great option, he’s an expiring as well. Maybe he can be bad from the clippers for Lowry plus some sweetener.


I may have been a little too contrived on my previous post but the main point still stands.
Finally looking at our tax situation and listening to the experts along with Pat Riley press, tells me the type of wall that were facing.

You guys make it seem like we have all these moving parts, that interchangeable and capable of giving us lots of options its just not true.

Lets start with Oladipo, it doesn't help the team to stretch him this year, it would be more beneficial for us to let him expire next year to help us get out of the 2nd Apron. You could also trade him but it will need to be for another 1 year rental near his salary but since hes injured why would a team even do that to begin with. Unless Miami puts him a big deal for a big time player because the other team wants some expiring contracts its going to be hard to move his dead weight, which frankly helps us if we keep him.

Lowry again similar to Oladipo except far more likely to be used in a trade falls under the same, issue you cannot pair him up with a multiyear contract because you need his salary to drop at least by 1/3 if Oladipo stays and by 2/3 if Oladipo is traded for non expiring contract. Which means Miami if cannot do a 1 for 1 trade for Lowry would need to get back 2 players, 1 of them can have a multiyear deal, the other needs to be a smaller expiring.

As you can see, its not going to be as easy peasy as we think, contenders who are going to go over the 2nd Apron who have certain needs may be the ones you can get these types of assets where you trade expirings for expirings at different positions of need.

Well it depends on what the goal is. We are a tax team this year and we pretty much will be for the remainder of the run with this core so long as we have Herro/Jimmy/Bam signed for a combined $110mill.

If the goal is to get out of the tax then of course that’s not easy, you’d have to find teams that could eat our big salaries and send nothing back. No one is going to do that for free.

If however, the goal is to turn the salaries that we do have into more useful pieces, I think we’re set up better now than we have been in past years because of the various contracts we have to play with. Because of our cap situation using exception money or singing free agents is out the window, but we have a ton of options when it comes to trading for talent.

We have 40 million in expiring money in Dipo and Lowry. We have Duncan’s $19mill in the event that we’re sending out our bad salary and taking someone else’s bad salary back, and we also have Strus and Gabe’s bird rights which offer us more spending mechanisms.

For example if we let Gabe or Strus walk, we can only replace them with minim guys. If instead they’re signed for team friendly good value deals, that offers us other ways to improve in future years. Like for example, if Gabe is signed for 3yr $36mill or Strus for 3yr $30mill, those would both be useful contracts as trade filler eventually.

Also avoiding the tax and avoiding the second apron are two different things. The new CBA actually encourages you to spend a bit above the tax. It just heavily discourages you from being a massive spending for multiple years. We can walk that fine line.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#419 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:36 pm

Lowry and a 1st for Sexton and KO

Herro for Turner and Buddy

Vincent/Pat Bev/Dragic
Buddy/Sexton/Cain
Jimmy/Martin/???
Bam/Highsmith/Jovic
Turner/KO/Robinson or Noel

Indy bolsters our starting lineup; Utah helps the bench. Power rotation looking much tougher; added some 3 level scoring to both the starters and bench.

Probably won’t happen but these are the types of deals we need to be looking at if we strike out in the Danes/Lavines/PGs of the world. Top level role players who have always been viewed as very talented players.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#420 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:46 pm

Another trade option is with the Spurs

PG Kyle Lowry
SF Duncan Robinson
2028 heavily protected 1st rd pick

to the Spurs for

SF Doug McDermott (expiring)
C Zach Collins(expiring)
PF Khem Birch (expiring)
PG Devontae Graham 2 yrs (12.1 per)

* Deal saves 7 millon worth of cap space next year and saves 6 million from Duncan's deal next year and we get off a year earlier matching it to Graham's contract.

With his trade you fill up some roster gaps and also get a young PG in return that we've had interest in the past in with Graham. Spurs could be possibly be interested bringing in Lowry to guide the young players along and especially making the game a bit easier for Wemby by getting him the ball in good spots. I know Pop has spoke highly about Lowry in the past. Zach Collins would be a great fit here cause he's actually a 3 point shooting big you can match with Bam. McDermott would be great coming off the bench and could even conceivably start at PF for us. He also happens to be a friend of Jimmy's. We've had Khem Birch in the past and he does give us a defensive minded dog who can be a good match with Jovic coming off the bench. Graham is a good fit as a backup PG to Gabe.

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