Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin & Isaiah Todd TRADED to the Phoenix Suns for CP3, Shamet, six 2nd rounders, & pick swaps

[Zonkerbl]

Beal: I want you to trade me to Phoenix and I want you to get NOTHING of value in return

[payitforward]

What Heat’s Pat Riley is saying at state-of-the-franchise media briefing. We'll update every couple minutes, so please keep checking back. Riley said Bam and Herro are "stars" and loves this young core:

Who on the Wiz have Rileys BBIQ and acumen to diss on the 23 y o Herro who the Heat were not going to trade to the Wiz for Beal . Herro fit the bill of what the Wiz are needing ,a young tall PG who can create his own points and drill the 3 ball and already has 2 20ppg seasons. Crying about defense in an offense league is becoming a voice less heard .Spoelstra has shown zone defenses can stifle everyone but Denvers offense.

Herro is not a PG.

If you repeatedly praise players by singling out how many points per game they score, you might as well be saying explicitly that you are a person who knows very very little about basketball.

Tyler Herro is not an awful player or anything like that. His career so far hasn't been as bad as, for example Rui Hachimura's career. But, he's been nothing special. I sure as H#ll wouldn't want to owe him $120m.

Given that Riley also wanted to lay off Robinson's contrat on us, I would have been extremely disappointed to see us make that trade. Or, better to say that in a zillion years I wouldn't expect a clever fellow like Michael Winger to make such a brutally stupid move.

[payitforward]

Beal: I want you to trade me to Phoenix and I want you to get NOTHING of value in return

et tu, Zonk?

Chris Paul is nothing of value?
6 R2 picks... are valueless?

[joshuacf]

I think this could have been condensed into about a paragraph.

You understand that no high-profile players are going to want to play for you if you just trade them immediately after failing to win a Stanley Cup or NBA title, right?

This isn't NBA 2K. Players have emotions, and they are going to react accordingly if they see a legendary player get treated badly by an organization.

You don't treat legendary players like playing cards and trade them immediately after you think "the window" is over. It's terrible business. Everybody knows this.

#1 I think I was pretty clear that I understood why the Loria method was unacceptable which is why I was fine with a title defense. What I wasn't fine with was 5 years of diminishing returns in regards to performance, and roster value. Of course this is NHL talk so I'll move over to the NBA.

#2: That's irrelevant. 100% irrelevant. Nobody wants to play for the Wizards to begin with. The franchise is an absolute joke outside of Washington DC, and a joke in the worst way. It's not that they make fun of the Wizards (until this horrendous trade anyway) its that the rest of the league doesn't even think about the franchise AT ALL. Nobody, not the players in the league, not opposing fans, not the media. Nobody. The Wizards/Bullets have been utterly irrelevant for decades. No player worth hunting in FA has any interest to begin with in Washington. None. So whatever ruthlessness we might show or not to a player is completely irrelevant.

#3 Even if they were interested, which they aren't, the fact that we might trade away an asset a year too early, rather than a year too late wouldn't impact anyone in the slightest. The interest of players is primarily about the bag and about titles, followed by fun cities to play in and cities with no state income tax. We can't provide players with any of those things save the bag. So again, what we do or don't do with Beals, Walls, or anyone else matters not at all. Players have short memories when it comes to playoff contention, getting paid and playing in cities w/teams they believe in. They'll go anywhere. If Isaiah Thomas gets broken and destroyed by Boston, no matter, FA's will still be interested because Boston is damn good and run well, they may have hosed Isaiah, but players will look past that if the money's right and the team is contending.

#4 As I said before, I was fine on signing on for a run at a repeat in '18-'19 even if I knew (and I did) there was no chance of it happening, however after that it was time for the Caps to figure out how to rebuild. The cupboard was bare of prospects, the vets were all in their thirties not getting better, just slowly aging out (though Ovy was doing a fantastic job of retaining his value, Backstrom was not, Carlson being significantly younger would carry more value). The team had to figure out what it would do at the deadlines circa '20-'22. They decided to play it out, and as a result, we can't pull nearly as much as we could have years ago.

Again, if you're fine with that, that's okay, but the argument that "everyone knows" you should just play out a dynasty to its denouement, rather than make the best available trades possible to start a rebuild is just crazy? I don't even know where to start with that. I would get if you wouldn't move these guys during their title defense, and even during covid etc the year after that, but the past three years, holding on, refusing to stare facts in the face with first round exit after first round exit for three years in a row before the collapse began in earnest in '21-'22 though they did manage another heroic trip to the playoffs that year? If everyone should know something its that if you're not contending and can't contend for titles, you should start your rebuild, not stubbornly play it out with your vets until all value they've accrued during their careers has evaporated. That's insanity.

Why are you reframing this discussion to the Wizards? This discussion was about the Caps and Ovi, not about Beal and the Wizards.

It seems like you just like hearing yourself talk so you shifted the discussion to argue a point I wasn't even contesting. My response was to your statement "The Caps should have traded Ovi after they failed to repeat". Not to any of your writings about why Ted sucks or what the Wizards should have done with Beal.

No successful professional franchise treats all-time franchise legends like what you are suggesting the Caps should have done to Ovi. The Mavs could have traded Dirk after they failed to repeat the 2011 run. The Lakers could have traded Kobe. The Heat could have traded D-Wade. The Warriors now could trade Steph.

But none of them will, because they realize what you don't: the way you treat all-time legendary players matters. You don't just trade an all-time legend like Ovi to get a few years' headstart on the rebuild. The goodwill you build by keeping them around is worth more than squeezing out draft capital.

Star players want some sense that you aren't going to ditch them at the first sign of trouble. Do you think Lebron would have signed with the Lakers if they treated Kobe poorly on his way out? I'll give you the answer: he wouldn't have.

If you want to continue this discussion, please just answer this question so we can get somewhere. Do you agree or disagree that players are not going to want to play for a franchise that treats all-time legends like trading cards? I don't need another dissertation on exactly what the Wizards or Caps should have done four years ago.

[montestewart]

Beal: I want you to trade me to Phoenix and I want you to get NOTHING of value in return

Reminds me of the story about Unseld, during negotiations with Juwan Howard, opening a briefcase and revealing to the opposition folders labeled first offer, second offer, final offer (something like that). It’s almost like they’re not trying.

Maybe the Wizards should have a former agent as part of their management and negotiating teams. Perhaps it’s just my selective memory, but the Wizards/Bullets seem to have a long history of getting clobbered at the negotiating table.

[Zonkerbl]

Beal: I want you to trade me to Phoenix and I want you to get NOTHING of value in return

et tu, Zonk?

Chris Paul is nothing of value?
6 R2 picks... are valueless?

Absolute trash. Come on man. Chris Paul is a placeholder for money. R2 picks are lottery tickets. So in return for 23 ppg of production we got... nothing.

All that the Beal trade got us is the ability to tank, if we can manage to trade away KP for trash also.

[AFM]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

[Zonkerbl]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

As an economist I have to point out that having 23 ppg of production on your team RIGHT THIS INSTANT is worth a heck of a lot more than the potential to maybe sign a productive free agent sometime in the future and six lottery tickets who COMBINED might give you a one in ten chance of getting starter quality talent.

If it's not nothing, it's pennies on the dollar. Wizards got FLEECED

The only good thing about it is that 23 ppg of production was taking up as much cap space as players who represent about 30-50 ppg worth of production on other teams. So even just tearing up that contract has "value" and is probably the main value in this trade.

[AFM]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

As an economist I have to point out that having 23 ppg of production on your team RIGHT THIS INSTANT is worth a heck of a lot more than the potential to maybe sign a productive free agent sometime in the future and six lottery tickets who COMBINED might give you a one in ten chance of getting starter quality talent.

If it's not nothing, it's pennies on the dollar. Wizards got FLEECED

And as an amateur economist I have to point out that 23 ppg right this instant isn't worth much to a tanking team.
Give new management a chance to show us if they're just lottery tickets like they were with Tommy and Ernie. We don't know that yet. You should know better talking about 2nd round picks like that, you are pretty much inviting PIF to write you a 5000 word essay on the value of picks.

[Zonkerbl]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

As an economist I have to point out that having 23 ppg of production on your team RIGHT THIS INSTANT is worth a heck of a lot more than the potential to maybe sign a productive free agent sometime in the future and six lottery tickets who COMBINED might give you a one in ten chance of getting starter quality talent.

If it's not nothing, it's pennies on the dollar. Wizards got FLEECED

And as an amateur economist I have to point out that 23 ppg right this instant isn't worth much to a tanking team.
Give new management a chance to show us if they're just lottery tickets like they were with Tommy and Ernie. We don't know that yet. You should know better talking about 2nd round picks like that, you are pretty much inviting PIF to write you a 5000 word essay on the value of picks.

I'm not going to spend any more time on this, I'm talking about what is the value of this trade from an economist's pov. The EXPECTED value of this trade is pocket lint. "Trust this management team to make this work" is wishful thinking, not a rational evaluation of the current value of the trade. For this management team to get the average expected value out of cap space and second round picks would be a huge accomplishment, countering more than two decades of poor drafting, poor free agent signings, and poor contract extension decisions. And even if they somehow miraculously manage to get just an average management team's return out of this crapbag of crappy assets, it's still a crappy, crappy trade. Garbage! Just an incompetent exclamation point on more than two decades worth of failure.

[Zonkerbl]

I hope they turn things around. I mean come on, you can't be incompetent forever. Remember the New England Patriots in the eighties and 90s? They were a joke. Eventually you turn things around. But I don't think the Wizards are ever going to do it, not while they have the stupid, childish name. It's cursed.

[AFM]

I'm glad you aren't going to spend any more time on this because you aren't making any sense. We have new management. Why bring up two decades of poor drafting? Ernie and Tommy aren't here any more. If you want to look at expected value, look at new management's draft record, not how Ernie did 10 years ago.

[DCZards]

I'm glad you aren't going to spend any more time on this because you aren't making any sense. We have new management. Why bring up two decades of poor drafting? Ernie and Tommy aren't here any more. If you want to look at expected value, look at new management's draft record, not how Ernie did 10 years ago.

[ozthegap]

Maybe stop assessing the value of the trade and assess the value of the overall plan instead. Instead of what did one move give me now what does this move set up?

[payitforward]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

As an economist I have to point out that having 23 ppg of production on your team RIGHT THIS INSTANT is worth a heck of a lot more than the potential to maybe sign a productive free agent sometime in the future and six lottery tickets who COMBINED might give you a one in ten chance of getting starter quality talent.

If it's not nothing, it's pennies on the dollar. Wizards got FLEECED

The only good thing about it is that 23 ppg of production was taking up as much cap space as players who represent about 30-50 ppg worth of production on other teams. So even just tearing up that contract has "value" and is probably the main value in this trade.

See what I mean...? I knew you'd come around. Besides... us commies gotta stick together!

Or, instead, maybe I'll take the neo-liberal viewpoint -- there is no such thing as a bad deal! The market told us what Brad is worth. Nor did we have to take it if we thought the market was going to improve.

It's just like when I walk from room to room in the house asking myself, "did I leave my coffee in this room?" By the time I find the cup, the coffee is cold!

It's entropy: nobody is ever going to heat Brad up again. Watch as the Suns get worse (& that I can promise you will happen!). In the meantime, look how much more room has been opened for free association! La vida e suena, Zonk: I kid you not!

[gambitx777]

I thought this trade was done but apparently this is also unresolved lol wtf is going on.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[WallToWall]

I thought this trade was done but apparently this is also unresolved lol wtf is going on.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

It will not be final till probably during the draft because they want to try and move CP3 elsewhere. They have some time to do this. It’s a normal course of action in trades.

[Zonkerbl]

Cap space and flexibility isn't "nothing", even if it doesn't show up as some sort of tangible asset.

As an economist I have to point out that having 23 ppg of production on your team RIGHT THIS INSTANT is worth a heck of a lot more than the potential to maybe sign a productive free agent sometime in the future and six lottery tickets who COMBINED might give you a one in ten chance of getting starter quality talent.

If it's not nothing, it's pennies on the dollar. Wizards got FLEECED

The only good thing about it is that 23 ppg of production was taking up as much cap space as players who represent about 30-50 ppg worth of production on other teams. So even just tearing up that contract has "value" and is probably the main value in this trade.

See what I mean...? I knew you'd come around. Besides... us commies gotta stick together!

Or, instead, maybe I'll take the neo-liberal viewpoint -- there is no such thing as a bad deal! The market told us what Brad is worth. Nor did we have to take it if we thought the market was going to improve.

It's just like when I walk from room to room in the house asking myself, "did I leave my coffee in this room?" By the time I find the cup, the coffee is cold!

It's entropy: nobody is ever going to heat Brad up again. Watch as the Suns get worse (& that I can promise you will happen!). In the meantime, look how much more room has been opened for free association! La vida e suena, Zonk: I kid you not!

aaaaargh I didn't get the joke

:hangs head in shame:

[80sballboy]

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[Jadoogar]

lol 6 srps, 4 swaps. 2 of those swaps are likely useless. Wizards will not be better in 24 or 26, the later ones could be something.