Point guards from the past

[Bwelc679]

Point guard seems to be the deepest position in NBA history with so many players who have impacted the game in positive ways. I'm interested to know how some of the past point guards would do if they played under todays rules. If all of these guys were at their peak and given a 90 day boot camp with Drew Hanlen/Tim Grover (and the other great trainers from today) to prepare them for rule changes and skill acquisition, who do you think would flourish the most in the modern NBA? Who's style would be too dated to make an impact and who would adjust their game to become something better than they were previously? Here is my random choices plucked out of a sea of endless point guard talent:

John Stockton
Terry Porter
Baron Davis
Rod Strickland
Sam Cassell
Steve Francis
Fat Lever
Deron Williams

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[One_and_Done]

Also worth talking about is how unremarkable I.Thomas would be today.

[migya]

Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson are names that should be mentioned and would do well nowadays.

[rk2023]

I would like to see Deron Williams today. Peak for peak, he’s the best out of the group mentioned here Imo.

[penbeast0]

Stockton has the highest peak, the highest career value, and would be the most likely to scale up value today in offenses that value guys who can hit the 3 at a very high efficiency. Porter should be second for similar reasons of consistency and modern offenses valuing 3 point shooting more.

Deron is the highest volume scorer at his best with the exception of Steve Francis and many team are built around PG scoring today. Baron would be about his health as it was in his day. If healthy he might be #2 but he just couldn't stay healthy so next would be Cassell.

Strickland and Francis would probably be no more team focused than before, classic empty stat talent guys. Francis is the more talented.

Lever would probably have the most problem with his inefficient shooting and his most unique skill, his rebounding, not as important in this league.

[SilentA]

Isiah would be great (more in the mold of DFox as a slashing PG with better playmaking and probably intangibles, but a bit less athletic/size), but not quite the best. I'd actually prefer to see someone as well-rounded Joe Dumars in the modern era. Combo guard, great defender, decent passer, already a good shooter in that era... I think every championship-aspiring team would be happy to have him as part of their backcourt rotation.

Of the list you provided, I like Stockton and Cassell. But I am the most interested in seeing:

- Mark Price running a modern offense.
- Kenny Smith. I suspect he would be a borderline star and ascend from his role player status. Very very good shooter, and with modern schemes could play with his handle and passing a bit more. I'd have to rewatch tape to get a grasp on his defense though. I forgot about his defense completely.
- Pre-injury Penny Hardaway as a star and for entertainment.

[Samurai]

I think it would take much longer than a 90 day boot camp to make a fair comparison. PG's today are learning to spam 3's pretty much from the time they first pick up a basketball. Giving them years and years of practice shooting 3's and comparing them to guys given 90 days just isn't remotely equal, thus limiting any discussion of a fair comparison.

[One_and_Done]

I.Thomas would be like D.Fox if he was smaller, and way less efficient.

[SilentA]

Nah he'd be a better playmaker/passer for sure and if his shooting was adjusted for the modern era (coaching, schemes, culture etc.) he'd probably be an average shooter, and above average PG finisher (e.g. he already shoots better from FT% than D Fox and FT% is one of the few things we can look at across eras that isn't affected by other factors, there's more context ofc but that's too long a topic).

People who tunnel vision on stats with no context/don't watch games tend to harp on Isiah's inefficiency and underrate him (acting like he's PG Antoine Walker which is ridiculous), and people who tunnel vision on accolades with no context tend to harp on his rings and overrate him as if only Magic and Curry have a case over him. On balance he'd be a great, but not the best, PG. Clearly above Trae and Ja, clearly below Steph and playoff Jamal. So somewhere around where DFox is.

I would still prefer to see Dumars and Price in the modern era though.

[prolific passer]

Price, Porter, and Stockton would be great in today's era due to their 3 point shooting.

[Bwelc679]

Also worth talking about is how unremarkable I.Thomas would be today.

Do you really think so? He was a tenacious defender and had a silky smooth mid range. Also a great athlete who had some insane dunks in his career. I don't think he would be unremarkable.

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[Bwelc679]

I would like to see Deron Williams today. Peak for peak, he’s the best out of the group mentioned here Imo.

He had an incredible crossover/tight handle. He also was a great athlete who used his bulk to run guys over. Defensively, he was one of the worst I mentioned though. Outside of his 2010 season he was never a plus defender.

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[Bwelc679]

Stockton has the highest peak, the highest career value, and would be the most likely to scale up value today in offenses that value guys who can hit the 3 at a very high efficiency. Porter should be second for similar reasons of consistency and modern offenses valuing 3 point shooting more.

Deron is the highest volume scorer at his best with the exception of Steve Francis and many team are built around PG scoring today. Baron would be about his health as it was in his day. If healthy he might be #2 but he just couldn't stay healthy so next would be Cassell.

Strickland and Francis would probably be no more team focused than before, classic empty stat talent guys. Francis is the more talented.

Lever would probably have the most problem with his inefficient shooting and his most unique skill, his rebounding, not as important in this league.

I agree with Porter but have my questions about Stockton. I just dk if he would ever catch on to increasing his shooting volume. Porter was tailor made for today's style and would see a huge scoring increase without an efficiency dip IMO. I would also argue that Cassell would thrive considering how good he was at making shots without any space, I imagine he's be even better with clean looks.

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[Bwelc679]

I think it would take much longer than a 90 day boot camp to make a fair comparison. PG's today are learning to spam 3's pretty much from the time they first pick up a basketball. Giving them years and years of practice shooting 3's and comparing them to guys given 90 days just isn't remotely equal, thus limiting any discussion of a fair comparison.

Although making it completely fair is impossible I am making up the idea that these guys would be at their absolute peaks already so they wouldn't need to have any boot camp to compete. The 90 days would just be to practice anything that their generation skipped over and to catch up on the more lax dribbling rules etc. I think that would be plenty of time for these already talented players to improve their 3 but you are right it doesn't make it even.

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[penbeast0]

I agree with Porter but have my questions about Stockton. I just dk if he would ever catch on to increasing his shooting volume. Porter was tailor made for today's style and would see a huge scoring increase without an efficiency dip IMO. I would also argue that Cassell would thrive considering how good he was at making shots without any space, I imagine he's be even better with clean looks.

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Why would Porter "see a huge scoring increase" while Stockton would never catch on? Over their career, they averaged the same number of FGA per game (though Stockton played longer and average about 2.3 minutes more a game) and shot roughly the same efficiency from 3 though Porter took more of them. Stockton also had the ball in his hands more so there is more room to convert some of those ridiculous assist numbers into 3 point shots.

It would be a coaching decision based on the offense the coach installed and despite his anti-vaccine views, I have a hard time believing Stockton is too dumb or too unwilling to listen to his coach to shoot more. It's not like Porter was taking contested shots while Stockton was only taking open ones; if anything Stockton got covered more tightly trying to take away his PnR action with Malone.

[Asianiac_24]

Stockton would be worse IMO. His shooting relative to his era is great, but nowadays every PG can shoot. He would still be a perennial all star, but nowhere near a top 10 player in the league. Maybe an All NBA 3rd team 3-4 times.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think the thing to realize with Isiah(whether he's transported and given say a year to relearn the game as its played now or born in say 2000) is that he's going to adapt his shooting habits and whatnot towards how its done now and what works. Was he a good 3 pt shooter back in the day? No, definitely not but given enough practice and emphasis I think chances are he becomes decent(as in 34-37% on mid volume for a pg). He did enough things well that I think he's still a quality pg today. He was short but his handles, passing acumen and quickness were very good.