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Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#721 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:17 pm

80sballboy wrote:Ringer article on pick swaps
https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2022/10/12/23399637/nba-draft-swap-picks
:(

But how valuable is a pick swap? To answer that question, we surveyed every first-round swap in NBA history, according to the Pro Sports Transactions archives. We recorded whether the swap was exercised, and if so, how much value the exercising team gained by exchanging picks, using Kevin Pelton’s calculations of pick values as a benchmark.

The results suggest that pick swaps aren’t anywhere near as important as they might seem. Historically, a first-round pick swap has been only about as valuable as the no. 36 overall pick. That’s worth repeating: The average first-round pick swap returns second-round value! And several team executives agree that—within the league itself, and especially in the public view—swaps are overvalued in a trade for a star.

The Celtics last decade provided a proof of concept for the ideal outcome of a swap, from the receiving team’s perspective. The 2016-17 Nets had the worst record in the league and won the lottery, while the Celtics had the best record in the Eastern Conference and were slated for the no. 27 pick in the draft. But thanks to swap rights they received in the Paul Pierce–Kevin Garnett trade four years earlier, the Celtics were able to take that no. 1 pick for themselves while the Nets slid to 27th. After a predraft trade for the no. 3 pick—which belonged to the 76ers thanks to a pick swap with the Kings—Boston added Jayson Tatum to a team that had just reached the conference finals.

This is a rather odd way of looking at it. You don't evaluate a pick swap in the abstract, you have to evaluate them in the context of the anticipated performance of the specific teams.

I'm pretty excited about Phoenix pick swaps in 2026, 2028 and 2030. Durant will be gone by then, Beal will be in decline and very expensive;and their depth will be terrible.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#722 » by Benjammin » Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:20 pm

In 2028 the Nets get first dibs on the pick swap fwiw.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#723 » by The Consiglieri » Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Ringer article on pick swaps
https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2022/10/12/23399637/nba-draft-swap-picks
:(

But how valuable is a pick swap? To answer that question, we surveyed every first-round swap in NBA history, according to the Pro Sports Transactions archives. We recorded whether the swap was exercised, and if so, how much value the exercising team gained by exchanging picks, using Kevin Pelton’s calculations of pick values as a benchmark.

The results suggest that pick swaps aren’t anywhere near as important as they might seem. Historically, a first-round pick swap has been only about as valuable as the no. 36 overall pick. That’s worth repeating: The average first-round pick swap returns second-round value! And several team executives agree that—within the league itself, and especially in the public view—swaps are overvalued in a trade for a star.

The Celtics last decade provided a proof of concept for the ideal outcome of a swap, from the receiving team’s perspective. The 2016-17 Nets had the worst record in the league and won the lottery, while the Celtics had the best record in the Eastern Conference and were slated for the no. 27 pick in the draft. But thanks to swap rights they received in the Paul Pierce–Kevin Garnett trade four years earlier, the Celtics were able to take that no. 1 pick for themselves while the Nets slid to 27th. After a predraft trade for the no. 3 pick—which belonged to the 76ers thanks to a pick swap with the Kings—Boston added Jayson Tatum to a team that had just reached the conference finals.

This is a rather odd way of looking at it. You don't evaluate a pick swap in the abstract, you have to evaluate them in the context of the anticipated performance of the specific teams.

I'm pretty excited about Phoenix pick swaps in 2026, 2028 and 2030. Durant will be gone by then, Beal will be in decline and very expensive;and their depth will be terrible.


Otoh, they have right here, right now quite a few quality players, and unlike us, if things go sideways on them and the team falls apart, they can always look at our two teams, and be mindful of the danger, deal guys if need be etc.

We know, right here right now, we have nothing, No Big 3, no Big 2, no Big 1, and we're staring 3 consecutive crap drafts to pull talent from. It is distinctly difficult to imagine Phoenix being worse than us over the next 3-4 years for me, and to be honest, I simply cannot see now, them being worse, period. We have nothing, they have a contender, and still some talent that isn't old as hell. They can maneuver eventually if they choose, we are stuck with the league worst roster in the NBA, and probably our worst roster EVER since I started watching nearly 40 years ago.

Theoretically, it may have value down the line, but it could easily be a scenario where we never do and indeed for now, I think that's the reasonable bet.

that New Jersey example is also one that highlights what can happen with stupid, under-involved owners. The Russian owner quickly soured on the NBA and didn't give a ---- what happened, he didn't lean on anyone to maneuver so the full horror of that pick swap didn't come to pass, he fully didn't give a ----, and they preceeded to eat the worst case scenario of such a pick swap imaginable. Not a lot of owners that stupid these days, Sarver is an idiot, but he's supposedly selling, Turd is an idiot so who he wont be clever on our side of the deal either.

One can hope, but best guess to me is no value to speak of from it.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#724 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:03 pm

NatP4 wrote:I'm fine with the Beal trade. I would've gone about it differently. Could it have ended up worse? of course, but how much worse? What was the risk of hanging onto Beal and playing hardball? He doesn't report to camp and doesn't play, we tank anyways and proceed with the rebuild....

I didn't hear any threat from his camp not to report -- did I miss something? &, if we'd kept him we'd have played him

NatP4 wrote:Is is that much of a stretch to project that Beal would eventually get fed up of wasting his age 30 season and expand his list of acceptable destinations?...

First off, if we'd kept him we would have played him. Conflict reduces his value.

Secondly, the Beal trade -- who to & what for -- was NOT the result of his restricting acceptable destinations!

If I'm a GM, & I watch Bradley Beal display the ability to control his own trade, that's all I need to see in order not to trade for him! What he can do to Washington, he can also do to me.

That was the big problem with the no trade clause. Not that he would only go to a good team. There are lots of good teams. But that you were acquiring a guy who came with a rope he could use to tie you up! Who needs that?

When you add to that the obvious fact that his skills are declining -- surely no one questions that? -- & that he has a guaranteed $207m coming his way, how long a list of teams do you think there is that would want him... for free?! Let alone give anything extremely valuable for that concrete overcoat of a contract?!

Did you notice that there was no offer from Miami? Or Golden State? Or the Lakers? Or the Knicks? Or Boston, where his buddy Tatum plays?

There was no offer from anyone except the rich mortgage lender who just bought the Suns & is running the team like the amateur he is.

So far from being, somehow, "screwed" in the Beal trade, it was an absolute triumph.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#725 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:14 pm

it was widely reported that Miami had an offer on the table
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#726 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:43 pm

NatP4 wrote:...No one on this board agrees with you on Porzingis, and you know it....

I like KP. I loved the trade for him! Watching the games, I see exactly the same thing you or anyone else sees.

If you think I have an opinion about Porzingis based on somehow not seeing what he does on the court, you're wrong.

OTOH --
* In one year Kristaps Porzingis drove us from being a 35-win team to being... a 35-win team.
* He turns 28 in 6 weeks.
* He's lost multiple seasons to injury.
* He was opting out, because he wanted to leave!

NatP4 wrote:...He's worth more than the 30th overall pick....

1. There is no such thing, neither in the case of KP nor any other player, as what the guy is "worth" in the abstract. Porzingis, like any other player, is worth exactly what you can get for him, period. He's not worth more, & he's not worth less.

2. In this trade, we are getting back an excellent player in his prime, Tyus Jones, plus the #35 pick in what seems like it might be a deep draft. That is a whole lot more than just the 30th pick.

3. Nor was there any way to "hold out for more," since he'd stated explicitly that he was going to decline his option. In which case, all we'd have had was his Bird rights.

4. If we'd declined the trade & allowed that to happen,

a. would we have used his Bird rights to match whatever offer he got in order to retain him? No, obviously not.
b. could we have forced a sign and trade deal? No. &, anyway, we *are* trading him!

The Washington Wizards are rebuilding. From the bottom up. Finally doing precisely what we should have started doing 2 or 3 years ago -- or, even better, at the end of the dismal 2018-19 season.

NatP4 wrote:...I will try to reserve judgement until the full details of the trade come out, there is NO way Boston isn't sending us a pick. That would be flat out terrible.

Would it be better if they sent us a pick? Of course!

Plus, you know what would be better yet? If they also sent every participant on this board a check for $100 bucks! You know... for all we've had to put up over the last god knows how many years! In fact, it should be Ted Leonsis who sends each of us that check!

I'ma look in my mail early tomorrow that's for sure. But, while I'm waiting for that check from Ted, like you...

NatP4 wrote:...I am happy overall, we are finally rebuilding. This is the most optimistic I have ever been about the direction of the franchise.

Good! & I feel the same way:
I am grateful to Ted for hiring Michael Winger.
I'm grateful to Winger for hiring Will Dawkins.
I'm grateful to both of them for finally starting to turn this thing around!
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#727 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:53 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Exactly. We are the perfect landfill for those Bring Out Your Dead contracts. Pay us in draft picks and we will bury your mistakes for you. Just keep those draft picks coming all the way up to 2030 and beyond.

The new CBA looks to be death for teams that cannot constantly refresh with cheap talent. If you constantly have young pups coming up you can afford to constantly renew your roster instead of holding on to your veterans for one or two contracts too long.

There is more room on the roster, and more play time for productive college stars. The CBA added one 2-way slot. The NIL/transfer portal era will add more productive upperclassmen, with a better track record of development and more opportunities for scouting players that will be productive on their first contract. There will still be one and done players in the lotto and first round, but your 2nd rounders will have more seasoning. You might still risk an upside play on a hypertalent, but the smart play late will simply be to look for guys who can play. Earn their contract, not stick to the bench watching all season. Plus their contracts can be structured in a more flexible way than the first rounders. You'd rather have the 31 than the 30. Team options all the way.

Some players who prove themselves will stick and stay. But given the number of rooks we might pull, our training camp is going to look like gladiator school every summer. But players still might want to join up. One good thing going for us is that we have a G-League squad with a good track record of developing players who earn a spot in the league. So in the Undrafted Free Agent market, and among talented players who flamed out on their first contract, we can point to our graduates who earned play time on the squad and worked their way both onto our bench or to auditions for other teams in the league. To NBAers maybe it looks cheap that we share a building with the G-squad. But to the G-League players that can look like an opportunity. If we can develop a system that both teams play then the skill sets translate when the opportunity comes. (Wes likes a high post center, seems like the GoGo were looking for that sort of player).

Anyway. I like the long view of it all. Even if the moves that get there look ugly and imperfect. It's the sausage factory. Right now we are looking at severed ears and gristle and wondering how this is ever going to be a tasty barbecue.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#728 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:05 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
What are the protections on the pick? Because this year's 6th graders are crazy good. I bet. I'm sure. "I don't have the resawces to scout prep school ball". I'm gonna go get some curly fries.


My man Kenny B. RIP. :(
"432-WMAL. That is the number."


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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#729 » by dobrojim » Fri Jun 23, 2023 5:40 am

doclinkin wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
My man Kenny B. RIP. :(
"432-WMAL. That is the number."




Oh the memories.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#730 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 8:54 am

Read on Twitter



The Wizards, new to the notion of building from scratch, are on step … six or so. Hopefully, for Wizards fans, it won’t take more than 10 years for them to reach the other side. But, it might. Or, it may not happen at all.

Either way, this isn’t business as usual. This is, finally and at long last, a full-blown rebuild. You will have to adjust your thinking.

For starters, in WizardsWorld, under Michael Winger and Will Dawkins and Travis Schlenk, it’s already around 2027, not 2023. That’s what GMs and execs are supposed to do, of course — think three or four years ahead. But Washington’s new triumvirate has been especially good at seeing the trends before they happen, anticipating what and who will shake loose before others catch on. Again: The Clippers didn’t just luck into Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. They game-planned it, for two years. And pulled it off.

So, what will the NBA look like in four years — after the next TV deal has kicked in, and provided franchises with millions more in cap space and operational dollars? After the new CBA has been in place for a couple of years, requiring contending teams to really, really think hard about blowing through that second luxury tax apron. What teams will be growing desperate to make a deal? Which players the Wizards acquire between now and then will explode, and which will fail? Those pieces need to start being moved around, amassing the kind of draft/player capital in place now to be able to strike then, for a difference-making, franchise-shifting, talent.

And thinking ahead — way ahead — will require fans to be more discerning, to not lose your collective shizzle the nanosecond you hear about a trade in real time. Or, a draft pick. Like, for example, the Bradley Beal trade to Phoenix. Or, picking Bilal Coulibaly.

“We won’t take short-sighted approaches in the draft — we’ll take the guy who we think will be the best long-term player, the best long-term fit,” Dawkins said late Thursday, after the draft. “With (Coulibaly), it’s going to take a little while. We know that. And we have the confidence in the coaching staff, and we have the support from ownership, to be able to take that approach and make sure that we’re not settling, and we can go take a risk, or go take further time to do something. With him, we don’t think it’s a risk.”

Washington was excoriated by many in the first 24 to 48 hours after news of the Beal trade broke for not getting any first-round picks from Phoenix as if dozens of teams that smelled blood in the water with Beal’s no-trade clause looming would do anything to help the Wizards make a more palatable deal. No, the Wizards had to eat that no-trade. So they didn’t get a free and clear first from the Suns. But Washington wound up with six second-round picks from the Suns — every second-rounder Phoenix had between 2024 and 2030 (save 2029, which Phoenix has already dealt)!

Next year’s second-rounder from the Suns isn’t going to be very high. But, again … 2027. (And, 2028 and 2030, the last two of four years of first-round pick swaps Phoenix agreed to do with Washington as well in the Beal trade. Once again: Swaps don’t make sense with a team that’s better than you. Phoenix will be better than the Wizards for a while, so Washington will keep its near-certain higher picks in 2024 and ’26. But will the Suns still be superior in five years? Seven? Maybe not.)


Similarly, no one seemed to realize, or believe, that there would be a market for Chris Paul, also acquired by Washington, along with Landry Shamet, for Beal. But, there was. There always was. Which is why the notion that Washington would just cut the 38-year-old future Hall of Famer so he could walk to the Lakers or Clippers on a veteran minimum deal was ridiculous. That it became the Warriors who anted up for him was a surprise, but getting additional assets for Paul wasn’t.

The haul — Jordan Poole, Patrick Baldwin Jr., Ryan Rollins, a 2027 Golden State second-round pick and a 2030 protected first — is more than adequate spoils for Paul — who, it must be repeated, was never going to play a minute in D.C. Baldwin was the Dubs’ 2022 first-round pick, taken 28th overall last year. He has talent. So does Rollins.

Look, Poole isn’t yet on the level of, say, Donovan Mitchell, Jaylen Brown or Tyrese Maxey — Eastern Conference two guards in his age range he’ll be competing with in the near future. But he’s better than Johnny Davis or whoever else would be vying for Beal’s old spot here. He can score. The Warriors won titles without Poole, of course, but he was a big, big part of their run in 2022. He had huge moments during that postseason. The moment was not too big for him.

But it’s fair to point out that Poole dropped off a cliff last season, and especially in the playoffs when the Dubs had to run Curry’s minutes into the red because their numbers with him off the floor — and with Poole on — were abysmal. That’s obviously part of why he was available. At the beginning of last season, the Warriors looked like they were moving on from Draymond Green and going forward with Poole; by season’s end, it was clear which of the two was staying — Green, the one who did the punching; not Poole, the one who got punched. It’s nonetheless reasonable to hope Poole’s form on the biggest stage a year ago is, if not the norm, at least occasionally repeatable.

Coulibaly? The Metropolitans 92 teammate of Victor Wembanyama definitely is an upside play. To me, it was a reach to go get the 6-8 wing at seven, trading two future seconds to the Pacers to move up one spot from eight — not because of the cost, but because of the high risk-high reward variance in taking the 18-year-old. He’s going to need a couple of years to get up to speed with the NBA game. Can he defend at this level? Probably. Is his shot, not great at the moment, likely to improve? Maybe. I’m still not sure it’s worth the risk that he doesn’t pan out when there was a more certain pick in Central Florida’s Taylor Hendricks.

The scouts I spoke with for my NBA Draft Confidential on Coulibaly and the other top wings in this year’s draft pegged him as a down-the-road 3-and-D guy.

But, again, you — and me, too — need to forget now, and think 2027. What will Coulibaly look like then? From that perspective, it’s an on-brand, OKC-like thing to do, which makes sense, as Dawkins was still a Thunder employee when he went to scout Coulibaly in Europe earlier this year.

The third of the mega-moves the locals made was Wednesday’s last-second salvage that allowed the Wizards to send Kristaps Porziņģis to Boston, with Washington and Boston swapping out Memphis for the Clippers to finish the three-team trade. To decry the fact that Boston got two firsts from the Grizzlies, while the Wiz got none, is to not at all understand how teams view trades. For Boston, the acquisition of Porziņģis and the trading of Smart were two separate transactions, tied into one. To part with Smart, the heart and soul of the Cs for so long, Boston demanded multiple firsts. Washington, obviously, wasn’t going to give a future first to Boston when it was already giving them Porziņģis. So, Memphis had to cough up two.

Meanwhile, Washington’s overarching goal was to get Porziņģis off its books, like Beal, as soon as possible. It mattered less what they got than what they accomplished.

Porziņģis wanted a two-year extension off of the $36 million he opted in for next season. Washington, obviously, wasn’t going to give it to him. Boston would, and will. The alternative for the Wizards was letting KP opt out of his deal, and become an unrestricted free agent July 1 — and getting back nothing in return.

But by making the deal, the Wizards got Tyus Jones, who’s been considered the best backup point guard in the league for a couple of years, from Memphis, along with Boston’s second-rounder — which Washington promptly flipped to Chicago, for two more future seconds. (Tristan Vukčević, a 20-year-old forward who played at Partizan Belgrade this season, whom Washington took with the 42nd pick Thursday, is likely a stash pick for next season, and maybe a few seasons after that.) The Wizards also got Danilo Gallinari and Mike Muscala from the Celtics. If they keep Gallinari, who’ll be returning from a torn ACL last fall, it will be to give him a chance to build up his trade value by the deadline next February.

Who knows if Jones, who’ll cost a lot to keep, will be on the roster a year from now? I’m guessing the Wizards were hoping the question would be moot because they were able to take Arkansas’ Anthony Black at eight. But the Magic took Black at six, forcing Washington to pivot. I’m also guessing the point guard market might look a little different in 12 months — or, by the trade deadline, in eight — and the Wizards would have a good problem if they choose to move Jones for more assets. (We haven’t even mentioned what Kyle Kuzma might bring back if he’s amenable to a sign-and-trade to his next squad. I’m assuming there’s going to be a next squad for him soon.)

At the end of this wild week in D.C., the Wizards have rejiggered the board. They will have significant cap space going forward, even after taking on Poole’s four-year, $128 million deal, which starts next season. In a week, the Wizards have gone from an over-the-cap team, unable to add veteran players for 2023 and ’24 other than through the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, to an under-the-cap team with tens of millions of dollars in cap room going forward.

What’s important about cap space for a bad team? Not the ability to sign free agents from other teams. Free agents aren’t going to sign here during a radical rebuild. What cap space will allow Washington to do is take on bad contracts from other teams. And teams that do that almost always get future firsts attached to those bad contracts.

And, left unsaid: All of these moves mean that Washington will be … godawful on the court next season. Terrible. Horrendous. This also means that the Wizards will almost certainly hold on to their 2024 first-round pick, which is due to the Knicks. But that pick is protected 1-12 next year for Washington, meaning the Wizards will keep the pick if they’re among the 12 bottom (or, top, depending on your perspective) teams next season. The pick is protected 1-10 for Washington in 2024-25, and 1-8 for Washington in 2025-26. If it hasn’t conveyed to New York by then, Washington will only owe New York second-rounders in 2026 and ’27.

I’m guessing the Wiz are holding on to that first for the foreseeable future. Even as the present presents to be somewhat bleak.

“When Mike and I were hired, we spent a lot of time with Mr. (Ted) Leonsis, and talked through what it would look like moving forward,” Dawkins said. “And we were able to kind of declare a path, and look at different options. A lot of that stuff will come to the light here, when we’re allowed to talk about everything (after July 1). But there is a plan in place. (Coulibaly) hits the plan very, very well. I think, if you look at the team that we’ll eventually be able to put on the floor this year, it’ll be a team that you’ll be proud of. It’ll be a team that will compete and have the substance that we’re looking for, to help young players play as well.”

So, here’s what Washington has, in relative order of importance, that it didn’t have at this time last week, in exchange for Beal and Porziņģis (I’m not counting Coulibaly among the additions, as Washington had its 2023 first before the deals):

• Significant 2023-24 cap space (potentially to be used in trades for expiring contracts — but, more importantly, future firsts)

• Jordan Poole (24, proven scorer, on a reasonable contract)

• Tyus Jones (starting PG, or a big trade asset)

• Danilo Gallinari

• Mike Muscala

• Four (!) first-round pick swaps with the Suns: 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030. The first two won’t matter; the last two might

• Five (!!) future seconds from Phoenix between 2024 and 2030 (originally six, but one of the seconds went to Indy in the Coulibaly trade)

• Likely to hold on to its first owed to New York in 2024 and 2025, maybe 2026

• Protected (1-20) 2030 first from the Warriors

• Two future seconds from the Bulls for pick 35 in the 2023 draft

• 2027 second-round pick from the Warriors

• Landry Shamet

• Patrick Baldwin Jr. (2022 Warriors first-round pick)

• Ryan Rollins

Who, or what, will all of that turn into by, say, 2027?

The (bleep’s) chess, not checkers.

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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#731 » by Hibachi_0 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:12 am

Pretty excited to see how Deni and Bilal combine defensively, the switch defense upside is crazy. Hope to see a Davis - Kispert - Coulibaly - Deni - Vukcevic lineup at some point this season, we are going to lose anyway. At least make it interesting to watch.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#732 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:50 am

Not line ups, just assessing our assets before free agency.

PG Tyus Jones, Marcus Morris, Delon Wright
SG Jordan Poole, Landry Shamet, Johnny Davis, Ryan Rollins
SF Corey Kispert, Danilo Galinari, Bilal Coulibaly, Patrick Baldwin Jr.
PF Deni Avdija, Xavier Cooks
C Daniel Gafford, Tristan Vukcevic, Jay Huff, Mike Muscala

Who am I missing?
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#733 » by 9 and 20 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:54 am

Draft is over, so what next? I'm not against keeping two of the vet point guards, just to make sure this season is not a complete shart show. Tyus Jones probably has the most trade value, so maybe they trade him.
Can't say I do. Who else gonna shoot?
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#734 » by 9 and 20 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:57 am

doclinkin wrote:Not line ups, just assessing our assets before free agency.

PG Tyus Jones, Marcus Morris, Delon Wright
SG Jordan Poole, Landry Shamet, Johnny Davis, Ryan Rollins
SF Corey Kispert, Danilo Galinari, Bilal Coulibaly, Patrick Baldwin Jr.
PF Deni Avdija, Xavier Cooks
C Daniel Gafford, Tristan Vukcevic, Jay Huff, Mike Muscala

Who am I missing?


This is so bad. Top 5 pick is in the bag.

Do we still have Gill?
Can't say I do. Who else gonna shoot?
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#735 » by dorianwrite » Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:06 pm

We've got both Gill and Quentin Jackson!

With 19 players, even assuming that Big V. gets stashed for a season, there will have to be some trades or buyouts just to get down to the league maximum of players.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#736 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:07 pm

Quentin Jackson?
In Rizzo we trust
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#737 » by dorianwrite » Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:23 pm

Oops, I misspelled his name: Quenton Jackson.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#738 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:33 pm

nate33 wrote:...I'm pretty excited about Phoenix pick swaps in 2026, 2028 and 2030. Durant will be gone by then, Beal will be in decline and very expensive;and their depth will be terrible.

100%.

Plus, from this & other moves, I get the sense that these guys have a truly long-term perspective. No bandaids. No pretend fixes. They are putting down a real foundation. Good stuff.
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#739 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:03 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:
nate33 wrote:

This is a rather odd way of looking at it. You don't evaluate a pick swap in the abstract, you have to evaluate them in the context of the anticipated performance of the specific teams.

I'm pretty excited about Phoenix pick swaps in 2026, 2028 and 2030. Durant will be gone by then, Beal will be in decline and very expensive;and their depth will be terrible.


Otoh, they have right here, right now quite a few quality players, and unlike us, if things go sideways on them and the team falls apart, they can always look at our two teams, and be mindful of the danger, deal guys if need be etc....

Actually, I'd say that's not altogether accurate.

1. How long do you expect KD to be a dominant player? He was drafted in 2007. Nothing & no one lasts forever.
2. A week ago, when Brad was a Wizard, he was unbelievably over-paid (& for an utterly unrealistic number of years), his no-trade clause made him a burden, & his declining skills meant that the problem would only get worse. Nothing has changed now that he's on the Suns. Trading for him was a stupid move by an amateur.
3. Look for the Suns to be worse this year than last. Book it.

The Consiglieri wrote:We know, right here right now, we have nothing, No Big 3, no Big 2, no Big 1, and we're staring 3 consecutive crap drafts to pull talent from. It is distinctly difficult to imagine Phoenix being worse than us over the next 3-4 years for me, and to be honest, I simply cannot see now, them being worse, period. We have nothing, they have a contender, and still some talent that isn't old as hell. They can maneuver eventually if they choose, we are stuck with the league worst roster in the NBA, and probably our worst roster EVER since I started watching nearly 40 years ago.

Yeah, but what do you really think? :)

I'll try not to point you back to this post when we're contending for a title 4-5 years from now! :)

The Consiglieri wrote:Sarver is an idiot, but he's supposedly selling....

That comment may explain the problem with your POV. Sarver sold the Suns some months ago to a guy named Matt Ishbia, who's a billionaire mortgage monger. Ishbia is running the joint more or less on his own. With the idea that he can buy his way to a title in a few easy steps. Hence his brain-dead acquisition of Bradley Beal (note that no other GM in the entire league made an offer for Brad -- b/c of the idiotic no-trade clause they'd be taking on).

So far from being the embarrassment some people here seem to think it was, Winger's deal moving Beal to Phoenix was a triumph! It was great! I imagine that will become clear to all here pretty soon.

That said, you are certainly right that at present we don't have much of a roster! But... what do you expect? To rebuild you have to tear down! Just as trading Beal was terrific, so too was trading KP -- especially since he planned to pick up his option & turn himself into a FA next year! Winger got very good value for him too. Tyus Jones is a terrific player. We got a solid draft pick, & we got the pick swaps which, IMO, you under-value (based on over-valuing how good the Suns are & will be).

Thus, although it's true we don't have much at present, what we do have is a future, & that's something we haven't been able to say for quite some time!

So far, Winger & Dawkins have knocked me out!
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Re: Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread 

Post#740 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:19 pm

doclinkin wrote:Not line ups, just assessing our assets before free agency.

PG Tyus Jones, Marcus Monte Morris, Delon Wright
SG Jordan Poole, Landry Shamet, Johnny Davis, Ryan Rollins
SF Corey Kispert, Danilo Galinari, Bilal Coulibaly, Patrick Baldwin Jr.
PF Deni Avdija, Xavier Cooks
C Daniel Gafford, Tristan Vukcevic, Jay Huff, Mike Muscala

Who am I missing?

I thought we got Boston's #35 pick in last night's draft via the KP trade. See https://theathletic.com/4629520/2023/06/22/nba-trade-grades-smart-porzingis-celtics-wizards-grizzlies/

"...This trade has Porziņģis, the 25th pick in Thursday’s draft and a 2024 first-round pick (via Golden State) heading to Boston; Smart going to the Memphis Grizzlies; and the Wizards adding Tyus Jones, Danilo Gallinari, Mike Muscala and the 35th pick in Thursday’s draft."

Wait... apparently we traded the pick to the Bulls. But, for what?

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