The Jett Howard Thread

[CarraT]

Do you think he can play SG? Seems a little slow for me for that, but if not, his role would be solely being backup of Franz.
If he can defend and play as SG, it may gets interesting, as a S5 of Black, Howard, Wagner, Banchero, Carter COULD be working, depending on Black´s progress as shooter, and Jett´s progress as defender.

[fendilim]

Do you think he can play SG? Seems a little slow for me for that, but if not, his role would be solely being backup of Franz.
If he can defend and play as SG, it may gets interesting, as a S5 of Black, Howard, Wagner, Banchero, Carter COULD be working, depending on Black´s progress as shooter, and Jett´s progress as defender.

I think if we go switch everything it is possible.

[Knightro]

Weltman admitted in his interview that they had options to move up and down.

That’s a bit out of context to exactly what he said. IMO he somewhat generically said they had many options given the fact they had two picks.

You’re acting like he said “we had a choice between trading down and staying at 11 and making the pick” and that’s not really accurate.

The fact is no one after 12 traded up until the team picking 31.

Considering no trade ups happened for 19 consecutive picks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the Magic could have traded down when literally no one traded up.

[Skin]

Weltman admitted in his interview that they had options to move up and down.

That’s a bit out of context to exactly what he said. IMO he somewhat generically said they had many options given the fact they had two picks.

You’re acting like he said “we had a choice between trading down and staying at 11 and making the pick” and that’s not really accurate.

The fact is no one after 12 traded up until the team picking 31.

Considering no trade ups happened for 19 consecutive picks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the Magic could have traded down when literally no one traded up.

Part of the art as a GM is not just waiting for teams to offer up, but also being aggressive in coming up with and sending out offers. I'm not gonna sit here and think that no other team in the draft saw value in moving up to 11. It all depends on the cost. Good thing I like Jett otherwise this draft would've been a complete nightmare.

[jezzerinho]

If i had to put my trust and money in a gm to find me the right trade option during a draft, WeltHam would not be high on my list. They work off their playback and that's their style.

[drsd]

Magic board: We should draft a scorer. It is way easier to teach defense than to teach offensive skill.

Magic board after drafting a scorer/shooter: OMG he sucks at defense, what a terrible pick.

And-1

There is every chance Howard develops to a Jamal Crawford or JR Smith type of game. That's a very good thing!

[Audi]

Weltman admitted in his interview that they had options to move up and down.

That’s a bit out of context to exactly what he said. IMO he somewhat generically said they had many options given the fact they had two picks.

You’re acting like he said “we had a choice between trading down and staying at 11 and making the pick” and that’s not really accurate.

The fact is no one after 12 traded up until the team picking 31.

Considering no trade ups happened for 19 consecutive picks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the Magic could have traded down when literally no one traded up.

Part of the art as a GM is not just waiting for teams to offer up, but also being aggressive in coming up with and sending out offers. I'm not gonna sit here and think that no other team in the draft saw value in moving up to 11. It all depends on the cost. Good thing I like Jett otherwise this draft would've been a complete nightmare.

Who’s to say they didn’t try? Who are the people making this claim that were in the war room?

I’m so ready for scrutinizing the pick this way to die. “Too high - not where he was mocked by hoopdaddy74359” and “they could’ve possibly maybe done better if they traded down actually I don’t know if they didn’t try but they could’ve if they would’ve” is just trash reasoning.

[ProfX]

I was pretty upset last night about this pick. I admit I didn't scout him since he was so low on the mocks. I have now. His game is alot like his dads without the post up game. Very stiff to the basket. He does have a very good and quick shot stroke. This still feels like a nepo pick tho. Id say he has better mechanics than Gary Harris. Especially under pressure.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

Watch on YouTube

Interesting release. Not text-book, but it is high and a very quick release. It reminds me a little of Klay Thompson's mechanisms; and clearly that works for him.

[pepe1991]

That’s a bit out of context to exactly what he said. IMO he somewhat generically said they had many options given the fact they had two picks.

You’re acting like he said “we had a choice between trading down and staying at 11 and making the pick” and that’s not really accurate.

The fact is no one after 12 traded up until the team picking 31.

Considering no trade ups happened for 19 consecutive picks, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the Magic could have traded down when literally no one traded up.

Part of the art as a GM is not just waiting for teams to offer up, but also being aggressive in coming up with and sending out offers. I'm not gonna sit here and think that no other team in the draft saw value in moving up to 11. It all depends on the cost. Good thing I like Jett otherwise this draft would've been a complete nightmare.

Who’s to say they didn’t try? Who are the people making this claim that were in the war room?

I’m so ready for scrutinizing the pick this way to die. “Too high - not where he was mocked by hoopdaddy74359” and “they could’ve possibly maybe done better if they traded down actually I don’t know if they didn’t try but they could’ve if they would’ve” is just trash reasoning.

Ooooor it just feels sooooo familiar since we already had all this debates, and all this conversations, and all those spin artists and front officie appologists trying to defend pick and explain how it wasn't reach for this brilliant player





Chuma Okeey keeey drafted 16#.
Chuma draft mocks: as high as 22 as low as mid second round



I went to see mocks before his injuries, he was almost never mocked to go before 22#. Than he returned and sucked. To be drafted 11th. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I already said that mocks aren't made with sugardaddy1995 reddit users, they use betting odds to predict place of drafted player. Betting houses base their percentages and picks based on algorithm.

Jett isn't type of prospect that you need to "secure at all costs". He wasn't even best player or second best player on team coached by his own father. Magic reached. You can suck off front office as much as you want, it still won't change fact it was reach for rather mediocre player with very limited upside. On position Magic don't need. Being stuck in rotation behind Magic's two best players. More you analyze pick, worst it gets. Black was BPA, Jett isn't BPA nor fits need other than some overarching "can shoot" point. Problem is once you put Banchero and Franz on court, there isn't position for Jett that he can play. Guy can't even defend space at college, he would be wracked at SG in nba. He is constantlly targeted on defense even at college.

[SOUL]

Okeke isn't really a relevant comparison. Dude tore his ACL. Jett played good to start the year, fizzled during the end because of slump and bum ankles. It just feels random lol.

I mean, you can take any two random players and have all the conviction in the world and it just works or it doesn't:

College numbers:

Khris Middleton - 3.3 three point attempts a game at 32%, 48.9 eFG%, 19 PER, 8.8 WS
Chuma Okeke - 3.2 three point attempts a game at 39%, 56.4 eFG%, 22 PER, 8.5 WS

No clue how Jett will turn out. But I mean you can compare him to both, and Chuma is actually the superior college player.. there's just way too many factors to really make comparisons (I made these because it shows how scouting is **** hard)

[Message Boar]

I'm with you, Pepe. Slept on it, and I still still dislike this pick. Screw going into spin mode trying to talk yourself into something you wouldn't have liked beforehand, and stand by your beliefs. The only way to change our minds should be on the basketball court, starting in summer league (not always an accurate measuring tool, I know). And because we're Magic fans and we want the team and all it's players to succeed, I very much hope they prove us all wrong.

But as of right now I am less than excited about this pick.

[pepe1991]

Okeke isn't really a relevant comparison. Dude tore his ACL. Jett played good to start the year, fizzled during the end because of slump and bum ankles. It just feels random lol.

I mean, you can take any two random players and have all the conviction in the world and it just works or it doesn't:

College numbers:

Khris Middleton - 3.3 three point attempts a game at 32%, 48.9 eFG%, 19 PER, 8.8 WS
Chuma Okeke - 3.2 three point attempts a game at 39%, 56.4 eFG%, 22 PER, 8.5 WS

No clue how Jett will turn out. But I mean you can compare him to both, and Chuma is actually the superior college player.. there's just way too many factors to really make comparisons (I made these because it shows how scouting is **** hard)

Replace word "Okeke" with word " Jett" and you have same post, 4 years later, with latest addition of " hammond drafted Middelton once, he'll do it again" volumen 5.

It's simply bad joke that we take unathletic , 36,8% three point shooter on 41% FG being sold as "shoter and scorer" while playing for his own dad , on worst Michigan team since 2013-14. As third option/third best player.

They should have trade one pick anyway, when they saw there isn't whoever they targeted orginally 11, they should have traded out of draft. Instad we are developing player with lottery pick who's best case is type of player Heat gets undrafted.

[SOUL]

Replace word "Okeke" with word " Jett" and you have same post, 4 years later, with latest addition of " hammond drafted Middelton once, he'll do it again" volumen 5.

It's simply bad joke that we take unathletic , 36,8% three point shooter on 41% FG being sold as "shoter and scorer" while playing for his own dad , on worst Michigan team since 2013-14. As third option/third best player.

They should have trade one pick anyway, when they saw there isn't whoever they targeted orginally 11, they should have traded out of draft. Instad we are developing player with lottery pick who's best case is type of player Heat gets undrafted.

That doesn't do anything to disprove my point though. Okeke's college numbers were great. The risk in itself was how he returned post ACL, but modern medicine showed that young guys getting ACL tears are increasingly easier to come back from.

Again, unless Jett has some ACL tear or something, the comparison is just of a forward that didn't work out lol. Nobody is arguing that Jett wasn't a risky pick because of where he was mocked in the last month, but that's the risk of drafting in general.

It either works out or it doesn't.

I don't know what you want, pepe. You constantly ask for role guys and specialists and when someone gets drafted with 7 3PT attempts+ on 38% it's suddenly "He isn't great at X, X and X so obviously he's a bust" - well duh, everybody past 1 is flawed lol.

If Scoot can't shoot it's a bad pick. If Brandon Miller continues to shoot 40% at the rim it's a bad pick, Amen and Ausar may never shoot, Black may never shoot, Bilal could be Frank Ntilikina, Hendricks could be a role guy, I mean you can go down and down the list on why these things are bad and then be like "But Kobe Bufkin had all the tools all along and nobody wanted to take him.." (which I wouldn't pat myself on the back, but I might )

[SOUL]

I'm with you, Pepe. Slept on it, and I still still dislike this pick. Screw going into spin mode trying to talk yourself into something you wouldn't have liked beforehand, and stand by your beliefs. The only way to change our minds should be on the basketball court, starting in summer league (not always an accurate measuring tool, I know). And because we're Magic fans and we want the team and all it's players to succeed, I very much hope they prove us all wrong.

But as of right now I am less than excited about this pick.

I actually don't mind people not liking the pick - I was confused at first too, I just don't get bringing up Okeke. I think if anything he's showing that it's incredibly hard to read into college numbers sometimes. Some people just figure it out at the next level, some bust, some injuries affect their future (Okeke), some injuries take a while but turn into a boon (Embiid), some are mixed bag (MPJ).

Scoot could bust and people will bring up Eric Bledsoe or something and he could be nice and people will point at Ja Morant. I just don't think it would be relevant

[pepe1991]

Replace word "Okeke" with word " Jett" and you have same post, 4 years later, with latest addition of " hammond drafted Middelton once, he'll do it again" volumen 5.

It's simply bad joke that we take unathletic , 36,8% three point shooter on 41% FG being sold as "shoter and scorer" while playing for his own dad , on worst Michigan team since 2013-14. As third option/third best player.

They should have trade one pick anyway, when they saw there isn't whoever they targeted orginally 11, they should have traded out of draft. Instad we are developing player with lottery pick who's best case is type of player Heat gets undrafted.

That doesn't do anything to disprove my point though. Okeke's college numbers were great. The risk in itself was how he returned post ACL, but modern medicine showed that young guys getting ACL tears are increasingly easier to come back from.

Again, unless Jett has some ACL tear or something, the comparison is just of a forward that didn't work out lol. Nobody is arguing that Jett wasn't a risky pick because of where he was mocked in the last month, but that's the risk of drafting in general.

It either works out or it doesn't.

I don't know what you want, pepe. You constantly ask for role guys and specialists and when someone gets drafted with 7 3PT attempts+ on 38% it's suddenly "He isn't great at X, X and X so obviously he's a bust" - well duh, everybody past 1 is flawed lol.

If Scoot can't shoot it's a bad pick. If Brandon Miller continues to shoot 40% at the rim it's a bad pick, Amen and Ausar may never shoot, Black may never shoot, Bilal could be Frank Ntilikina, Hendricks could be a role guy, I mean you can go down and down the list on why these things are bad and then be like "But Kobe Bufkin had all the tools all along and nobody wanted to take him.." (which I wouldn't pat myself on the back, but I might )

Comparison is very clear in terms of reach for player nobody in their mothers had going before 20-25th at best. Nobody but Weltman i guess.

Those players you mentioned had red flags. Jett doesn't have red flags.
Jett has red categories: rebounding, athletics, first step, defense, latheral quickness.

Only one type of prospects skips whole combine: one that has lot to hide.


The thing is, only way how i can get your honest , non biased opinion about prospect is if i ask you before Magic draft him.

After it's done, you are in fully demage control mode like they pay you.

[SOUL]

Those players you mentioned had red flags. Jett doesn't have red flags.
Jett has red categories: rebounding, athletics, first step, defense, latheral quickness.

Only one type of prospects skips whole combine: one that has lot to hide.

All I'm saying is you can find many things to hate in prospect and it doesn't take much digging lol. If I played devil's advocate.. well not even, I visit the NBA Draft forum on here and there are like HUGE anti-Gradey Dick posters who think he is overrated to hell and pinpoint weaknesses on why he's a worse Luke Kennard but it's just hard for me to read into any prospect without seeing how they will be used on the team and if their game expands at the NBA level.

That's why I find it tough to debate with you sometimes - some of your posts I agree with bits of pieces but then its like *randomly bringing up draft pick from 1987 that is associated with his grandpa* and it's like nonono just say you think he got overdrafted for his one strength and I would agree.

IF you do not think him being elite at that one strength is worth investing 11th pick in, that's fine too. I never advocate for pure shooters. I just think there is a role for him on the team if he does it well, and it could be important and valuable off the bench.

[SOUL]

After it's done, you are in fully demage control mode like they pay you.

I can say the same though.. pages and pages demolishing Trae Young or other guys and then if they play well a year later "oops, I was a bit wrong "

My approach is simply wait and see. 30+ people have said they didn't like the pick but will give him a chance but nobody is really arguing those statements. It's when it becomes "This guy is an absolute bust, why was he picked here, he shouldn't even be in the 1st round, I can't believe we failed this draft.." it's like damn okay

If he continues worrying trends that are lethal to him getting playing time, come back to this discussion. You may be right - I don't disagree with a lot of his criticisms. But the players need time. A lot of "I told you sos" in the Franz Wagner summer league thread from people who disliked him and now he's a fan favorite.

Overdrafted according to mocks? Yes. Reach? Depends on what you were looking for, but probably could've got him later. Bust? Nobody has a clue.

[eyriq]

Gradey Dick is eccentric as f. Glad we didn't draft him. Jett gives you the same size and skill set. Just makes sense.

[Message Boar]

I'm with you, Pepe. Slept on it, and I still still dislike this pick. Screw going into spin mode trying to talk yourself into something you wouldn't have liked beforehand, and stand by your beliefs. The only way to change our minds should be on the basketball court, starting in summer league (not always an accurate measuring tool, I know). And because we're Magic fans and we want the team and all it's players to succeed, I very much hope they prove us all wrong.

But as of right now I am less than excited about this pick.

I actually don't mind people not liking the pick - I was confused at first too, I just don't get bringing up Okeke. I think if anything he's showing that it's incredibly hard to read into college numbers sometimes. Some people just figure it out at the next level, some bust, some injuries affect their future (Okeke), some injuries take a while but turn into a boon (Embiid), some are mixed bag (MPJ).

Scoot could bust and people will bring up Eric Bledsoe or something and he could be nice and people will point at Ja Morant. I just don't think it would be relevant

Yeah I mostly agree with you about Okeke. Except for that -broadly speaking- injuries were somehow a factor, their cases are not at all similar. I will say though, it's probably the most similar case of this FO reaching against "mock draft consensus Intelligentsia". Chuma was what, 16th and mocked around the late first, early second round? I had Jett around #20 so I guess that's really not that bad, even if I consider him in a worse talent bracket than a bunch of available options, and those options I'm also a lot higher on than how I felt about alternatives to Chuma when that happened. But as you say, the draft is very random at the best of times. Though consensus mock draft generally do give some indication of a player's likelihood of -and level of- success, with some really bad misevaluations mixed in.

I'm happy that a good amount of Magic fans seem positive about this pick. Maybe I'm feeling a bit negative just because I ran into this video of a Michigan fan talking about Jett during my draft prep, and he was not very positive about Jett (tl:dr: tall shooter who doesn't really do much of anything else).

For the draft more broadly, It's kind of like how I explained it to a friend who knows nothing about basketball/American sports earlier. Draft night is kind of like Christmas for me and a portion of nba fans, especially if you have #6 and #11 (and #36, but we knew what was going to happen there) going into the night. But then you open up your presents, and sure they're nice presents, some toys you can play with, but they're not really anything you had on your wish list. And then you see/hear that all your friends and classmates got the toys that you wanted for yourself. Is it rational? No, probably not, but you're still left feeling kinda bummed out.