2023 draft thread

[duetta]

All things being equal, I have no problem with Knicks management's decisions last night. They evidently have an extremely focused draft/scouting group and they stick to their guns when following strategy. The Dallas dump absolutely crimped their opportunities lat night - but we still have as many booked future assets as likely any team in the NBA except Utah and Oklahoma City.

There's a lot of time between now and the season's start to make other deeply strategic moves happen. Stay the course and don't let other teams to make our management look the sucker it was under previous regimes. Baring a catastrophic Brunson injury next season, we are clearly a playoff team and so there was no reason to not simply run it back and wait to swoop in on a reasonable deal for a superior talent.

[Richard4444]

2023 NBA undrafted free agent contracts
Charlotte Hornets
Nathan Mensah, C, San Diego State — source

Chicago Bulls
Adama Sanogo, C, Connecticut — source

Cleveland Cavaliers
Craig Porter Jr., G, Wichita State — source
Wendell Green, Jr., Auburn (Summer League) — source

Dallas Mavericks
TCU PG Mike Miles Jr. — source
UAB G Jordan Walker — source

Detroit Pistons
Tosan Evbuomwan, F, Princeton — source

Golden State Warriors
Javan Johnson, F, DePaul — source

Indiana Pacers
Darius McGhee, G, Liberty (Summer League) — source

Los Angeles Clippers
Xavier Castaneda, G, Akron — source

Los Angeles Lakers
Colin Castleton, C Florida — source
Alex Fudge, F Florida — source
D’Moi Hodge, G, Missouri — source

Miami Heat
Justin Powell, G, Washington State (Summer League) — source
Patrick Gardner, C, Marist (Summer League) — source
Taylor Funk, F, Utah State (Summer League) — source
Caleb Daniels, G, Villanova (Training Camp) — source
Drew Peterson, F, USC — source

Milwaukee Bucks
Omari Moore, G, San Jose State — source

New Orleans Pelicans
Landers Nolley II, G, Cincinnati — source
Tevian Jones, G, Southern Utah — source

New York Knicks
Jacob Toppin, F, Kentucky — source
Jaylen Martin, F, Overtime Elite — source

Oklahoma City Thunder
Caleb McConnell, G, Rutgers — source

Philadelphia 76ers
Ricky Council IV, G, Arkansas — source
Azuolas Tubelis, F, Arizona — source
Terquavion Smith, G, NC State — source
Marcus Bagley, F, Arizona State — source

Phoenix Suns
Trey Jemison, C, UAB — source
Marcus Carr, G, Texas — source
Grant Sherfield, G, Oklahoma — source

Sacramento Kings
Justyn Mutts, F, Virginia Tech (Summer League) — source

San Antonio Spurs
Sir’Jabari Rice, G, Texas — source
Seth Millner, F, Toledo — source
Logan Johnson, G, Saint Mary’s, CA — source
Charles Bediako, C, Alabama (training camp) — source

Toronto Raptors
Markquis Nowell, G, Kansas State — source

Utah Jazz
Kihei Clark, G, Virginia (Summer League) — source
Joey Hauser, F, Michigan State — source
Colbey Ross, G, Pallacanestro Varese, Italy (Summer League) — source
Keshawn Justice, F, Santa Clara (Summer League) — source
Ed Croswell, F, Providence (Summer League) — source
Nick Ongenda, F, DePaul (Summer League) — source
Taevion Kinsey, F, Marshall — source

Washington Wizards
Osun Osunniyi, C, Iowa State (Summer League) — source



https://dknation.draftkings.com/2023/6/22/23759896/nba-undrafted-free-agent-2023-list-signings-contracts-players-tracker-updates-rumors

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Draft picks are like cars. Once you pick one off of the lot, it loses 20%+ in value.
We gotta be realistic about the situation. The Knicks aren't in rebuild/youth mode and have a hard enough time getting Deuce and Obi consistent minutes. Any rookie added this year would depreciate in value with minimal burn.

With the new CBA guys on rookie contracts are going to be important, hence the Warriors, Lakers, Nuggets and Celtics all drafting guys. We're not in the position to punt on drafts, especially not when the next CBA is going to make it very difficult to build teams.

Even more than that

Nuggets made moves to trade for a 1st round pick this year like a week ago despite not knowing how the draft was gonna shake out

Getting guys on rookie deals is vital to establishing long term success, even if they're not your star players. Like, if we don't sign those vets 2 years ago, then sign Brunson and take say, Tari Eason with our pick cause we didn't need to trade it to free up space, we don't need to trade a 1st for Hart cause Eason does pretty much the same thing, except is cost controlled for 3 more years

We could then have used that pick this year to say, draft Ben Sheppard for more shooting off the bench

So instead of having Eason and Sheppard making less than 10 mil combined for at least the next 3 years, we are about to pay Hart 15 mil per year (at least) to be essentially an older, smaller, less athletic Eason

But this FO is brilliant and those picks are worthless anyways

Also, I just love the logic of "the team is so incompetent that they wouldn't develop anyone we draft, so it's actually genius for them to punt the draft away" lol.

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

They're always one step behind where the league is going, signing Leon to try and entice players to come here at a time when superstar players are all signing long term deals, now they're punting on drafts when guys on rookie deals are going to have even more value because of the new CBA. We're never ahead of the curve, we're always lagging behind it, trading a first or Josh Hart is a perfect example of that.

[Synciere]

105 pages on a draft we don’t even have a pick in. Jesus.

Do we even need a 2024 draft thread?

Of course not. This is a Leon Rose operation.

[Synciere]

With the new CBA guys on rookie contracts are going to be important, hence the Warriors, Lakers, Nuggets and Celtics all drafting guys. We're not in the position to punt on drafts, especially not when the next CBA is going to make it very difficult to build teams.

Even more than that

Nuggets made moves to trade for a 1st round pick this year like a week ago despite not knowing how the draft was gonna shake out

Getting guys on rookie deals is vital to establishing long term success, even if they're not your star players. Like, if we don't sign those vets 2 years ago, then sign Brunson and take say, Tari Eason with our pick cause we didn't need to trade it to free up space, we don't need to trade a 1st for Hart cause Eason does pretty much the same thing, except is cost controlled for 3 more years

We could then have used that pick this year to say, draft Ben Sheppard for more shooting off the bench

So instead of having Eason and Sheppard making less than 10 mil combined for at least the next 3 years, we are about to pay Hart 15 mil per year (at least) to be essentially an older, smaller, less athletic Eason

But this FO is brilliant and those picks are worthless anyways

Also, I just love the logic of "the team is so incompetent that they wouldn't develop anyone we draft, so it's actually genius for them to punt the draft away" lol.

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

They're always one step behind where the league is going, signing Leon to try and entice players to come here at a time when superstar players are all signing long term deals, now they're punting on drafts when guys on rookie deals are going to have even more value because of the new CBA. We're never ahead of the curve, we're always lagging behind it, trading a first or Josh Hart is a perfect example of that.

Come on. No need for hyperbole. Brunson and Randle were good moves. I’m not as high on Grimes as others but by consensus both he and IQ both were good moves. The Hart trade was a win, even if it meant we pointed on this draft. Brass has made a lot of good moves so far.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Even more than that

Nuggets made moves to trade for a 1st round pick this year like a week ago despite not knowing how the draft was gonna shake out

Getting guys on rookie deals is vital to establishing long term success, even if they're not your star players. Like, if we don't sign those vets 2 years ago, then sign Brunson and take say, Tari Eason with our pick cause we didn't need to trade it to free up space, we don't need to trade a 1st for Hart cause Eason does pretty much the same thing, except is cost controlled for 3 more years

We could then have used that pick this year to say, draft Ben Sheppard for more shooting off the bench

So instead of having Eason and Sheppard making less than 10 mil combined for at least the next 3 years, we are about to pay Hart 15 mil per year (at least) to be essentially an older, smaller, less athletic Eason

But this FO is brilliant and those picks are worthless anyways

Also, I just love the logic of "the team is so incompetent that they wouldn't develop anyone we draft, so it's actually genius for them to punt the draft away" lol.

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

They're always one step behind where the league is going, signing Leon to try and entice players to come here at a time when superstar players are all signing long term deals, now they're punting on drafts when guys on rookie deals are going to have even more value because of the new CBA. We're never ahead of the curve, we're always lagging behind it, trading a first or Josh Hart is a perfect example of that.

Come on. No need for hyperbole. Brunson and Randle were good moves. I’m not as high on Grimes as others but by consensus both he and IQ both were good moves. The Hart trade was a win, even if it meant we pointed on this draft. Brass has made a lot of good moves so far.

Randle was/is not a good move and signing him to an extension after a historically bad playoff series was special, and he rewarded them by having a playoff run almost as bad as the first one. His playoff numbers on volume are some of the worst in NBA history, you can't put lipstick on a pig.

Hart is a good player, the problem is we're going to need to resign him and he'll no longer be cheap relative to his production, whereas the guys who were taken after our pick will be outperforming their contracts for the next several years. Jalen Williams is already a better player than Hart, and he's on a 4 year $20.2 million rookie deal, Hart will be close to making per year what Jalen's total contract is.

[DOT]

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

And even then, we only got Brunson due to nepotism

It's like, I don't get the blind faith some people have in Leon and co. to build a team when they've had years to build a cohesive roster and have done nothing about it. Like, first of all, it's clear that RJ/Randle does not work and we need to trade one of them at least, but we're not doing that. And we're still building a team like it's 1993 where you just need one 3pt shooter to space the floor. If we had 3 or 4 guys around Brunson who could shoot, it would open up things significantly to take advantage of his shot creation and playmaking

But we don't do that cause the FO doesn't know how to build a team

Dudes are tripping over themselves to praise them for one good signing and convince themselves that trading 1sts to rectify past mistakes is actually brilliant team building.

[F N 11]

CAA check
Nepotism check
Collusion check
Kentucky check
Don’t care about team only care about taking care of my people check

[EricAnderson]

All things being equal, I have no problem with Knicks management's decisions last night. They evidently have an extremely focused draft/scouting group and they stick to their guns when following strategy. The Dallas dump absolutely crimped their opportunities lat night - but we still have as many booked future assets as likely any team in the NBA except Utah and Oklahoma City.

There's a lot of time between now and the season's start to make other deeply strategic moves happen. Stay the course and don't let other teams to make our management look the sucker it was under previous regimes. Baring a catastrophic Brunson injury next season, we are clearly a playoff team and so there was no reason to not simply run it back and wait to swoop in on a reasonable deal for a superior talent.

The problem is our future draft assets are all heavily protected picks they aren’t worth all that much

If we get in bidding wars with teams with tons of unprotected or lightly protected picks and pick swaps we can’t compete and there are more teams then just the ones you mentioned who have those

[F N 11]

If kat rumors are true. Randle is prob gone.

[Billy Goat]

Get Sanogo. He’s going to last in the league. Toppins brother sucks

[Synciere]

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

They're always one step behind where the league is going, signing Leon to try and entice players to come here at a time when superstar players are all signing long term deals, now they're punting on drafts when guys on rookie deals are going to have even more value because of the new CBA. We're never ahead of the curve, we're always lagging behind it, trading a first or Josh Hart is a perfect example of that.

Come on. No need for hyperbole. Brunson and Randle were good moves. I’m not as high on Grimes as others but by consensus both he and IQ both were good moves. The Hart trade was a win, even if it meant we pointed on this draft. Brass has made a lot of good moves so far.

Randle was/is not a good move and signing him to an extension after a historically bad playoff series was special, and he rewarded them by having a playoff run almost as bad as the first one. His playoff numbers on volume are some of the worst in NBA history, you can't put lipstick on a pig.

Hart is a good player, the problem is we're going to need to resign him and he'll no longer be cheap relative to his production, whereas the guys who were taken after our pick will be outperforming their contracts for the next several years. Jalen Williams is already a better player than Hart, and he's on a 4 year $20.2 million rookie deal, Hart will be close to making per year what Jalen's total contract is.

Oh I forgot. Can’t say anything positive about Julius, In spite of his all NBA status and cheap contract. My bad.

I agree that drafting a guy at 11 last year would’ve been preferable to the pupu platter of protected picks we have, though it did seem like an asset when we were chasing Spida. I’ve gone back and forth with a few on the board already regarding how nice it would’ve been to get Williams or griffin last year. Doesn’t take away from the teams progression so far these past few years. At least we’re not cellar dwellers anymore.

[Synciere]

The only good move this FO made was getting Brunson, but giving up assets to get off the dumb contracts they handed out just hurts. Like you said, it caused a cascading effect of needing to trade another first to get a guy who we'll have to pay, when guys like Eason, J. Williams and Griffin were all available at 11.

And even then, we only got Brunson due to nepotism

It's like, I don't get the blind faith some people have in Leon and co. to build a team when they've had years to build a cohesive roster and have done nothing about it. Like, first of all, it's clear that RJ/Randle does not work and we need to trade one of them at least, but we're not doing that. And we're still building a team like it's 1993 where you just need one 3pt shooter to space the floor. If we had 3 or 4 guys around Brunson who could shoot, it would open up things significantly to take advantage of his shot creation and playmaking

But we don't do that cause the FO doesn't know how to build a team

Dudes are tripping over themselves to praise them for one good signing and convince themselves that trading 1sts to rectify past mistakes is actually brilliant team building.

If we only got Brunson due to the nepotism then bringing ole Ricky in was a brilliant move and should be applauded lol.. That’s the type of move your President is supposed to foresee and make.

[Fat Kat]

105 pages on a draft we don’t even have a pick in. Jesus.

Do we even need a 2024 draft thread?

Please don’t. Those threads attract some of the worst takes and evaluations ever.

Every player with a Hesi crossover is a can’t miss prospect.

[duetta]

The problem is our future draft assets are all heavily protected picks they aren’t worth all that much

If we get in bidding wars with teams with tons of unprotected or lightly protected picks and pick swaps we can’t compete and there are more teams then just the ones you mentioned who have those

We still have our own picks and those heavily protected picks are extremely like to be conveyed. All Washington has to do by 2026 is to be 9th in the lottery. The Bucks picks will almost certainly convey. The Pistons pick will also convey.

Everybody wants quick fixes but in my opinion, careful moves make the most sense when it comes to winning. The team that just won the NBA champions has how many top-five picks on it? San Antonio could have gone all-in at the start of the David Robinson - Sean Elliot period and then instead kept their draft options open.

I am delighted by the patient, careful approach that Rose and company are taking.

[spree8]

Why torture yourself reliving the past poor choices of the FO? It only brings you more misery

[DOT]

If we only got Brunson due to the nepotism then bringing ole Ricky in was a brilliant move and should be applauded lol.. That’s the type of move your President is supposed to foresee and make.

If we were making good moves besides that and that was just the finishing touch, you might have a point

But the point is, the only good move they made was due to nepotism. They're utterly incompetent in every other regard.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Rich Paul and Klutch can kick rocks. The only guys from that agency I maybe would want are OG and Gary Trent. The rest of that group are either old, hasbeen, too expensive, injury prone or just plain suck including LaVine.

It's crazy how some of you choose ignore LaVine's contract and injury history! These type of players have NEVER succeeded in NY! And he doesn't move the needle either.

[SARGO127]

Really bummed we couldn’t get Sanogo or Andre Jackson. Big time winning players.

[Oscirus]

nepotism and the fact brunsons childhood dream was to be a knicks. Its been a tolerable reign by the front office, but nothing more