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Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1741 » by Heat3 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:16 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:I just have a question :

If (that's an IF) we run it back, and Jimmy carries this team again deep into the playoffs, but once again we lose in the ECF or Finals, and it's for the same reason/s, ... are you going to be upset too? Or it's still all good just because we had another deep run?


No I won’t be upset because I don’t view it as Jimmy carrying bums despite bad front office moves. I view it as the front office making the right moves and not making the wrong moves which once again results in a title contender.

Considering people trash the team and FO even when they’re in the Finals, I don’t have to guess what would happen if they make all the moves people want and the team is out in the first round or back in the lottery drafting at #30 for the next 4 years.


Nobody said he is carrying bums. That's a strawman. But Jimmy has put the team on his back many times, has he not?

The reason people are upset is because they know we have Jimmy and a good team. But we need some moves to put us over the hump. Simply running it back and not being able to get over the hump is not good enough for some. It's fine for you, that's cool, you can have your opinion, and other people can have theirs.


Is he not supposed to put the team on his back? He’s the best player on the team and the leader. That’s his job. Jokic put his team on his back. That’s what the top player is supposed to do.

If only winning a title is “enough” the what do you call the 32 years this franchise hasn’t won anything? Or the first 17 years when they won nothing? We’re you miserable all that time? If they won the title this year what would you be doing right now? Would have already moved on to the off-season and be mad they aren’t making the moves you want or would you be good for a year? How much would you actually enjoy those three extra wins in the Finals. I think you’d be happy until the parade then go back to being grumpy once that was over.

I’ll be grumpy when this team only wins 18-30 games a year for 4 years straight and getting swept in the first round is only a dream. But deep playoff runs, making the finals? Entertaining me until June? That will always make me happy especially a year like this year.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1742 » by Grumpy Heat Fan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:16 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
3ballbomber wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'M being toxic :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You got sh*t twisted bruh. I ride w/ this organization. I've said it multiple times the views i share seem to align w/ the team more than you complainers.

Do you see anybody from our squad wanting out? Do you see Jimmy wanting out the door after his missed 3 in the ECF last season? Do you see him waning out after being injured & losing in the finals? Do you see cryptic msg's on social media criticizing certain people frm the organization? Do you hear about disgruntled players w/ issues? No, instead our players are all hoping to stay!!! Only fans whine while people directly connected to the team are in FULL SUPPORT!!

You make it like you're the only ones wanting to win a Championship lol. You don't think these players & the entire org are determined to win one? If it were that easy the entire league wld have won at the vry least 1 by now. Half the damn league ain't sniffed an nba finals. We've made 2 in 4 seasons when we had no bloody business even being there. Ya'll still don't get this sh*t!

Like i said....when we finally win 1 it will be because of the very decisions that you're all complaining about currently. Hell a lot of you wanted to tank & fire Riles & Spo.....instead we went all the way to the f*cking NBA finals & these same complainers are jerking off to our run, as a result of Spo & FO, w/ no damn shame. Then we lose & we're right back to where we started w/ the whining and ya'll don't even realize wtf you're doing. Like, how you gone put this organization under the bus then cheer when we're winning. That's why i said i don't want to see any of ya'll celebrate when we win one because we'd have won because of the very decisions you're all whining about - how the f*ck then you ride with us after all your bullsh*t. It's truly disgusting sh*t not befitting for a world class organization such as ours.


aww poor baby, people have different opinions you don't like, and you wish they would all just think as you do!

it's so hard!

Just put on the foe list and get back on track. The debate on this topic is not leading to any productivity.


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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1743 » by 3ballbomber » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:18 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
3ballbomber wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
You are being toxic.

Stop calling out other posters for their opinions. All you gotta do is "I disagree" and state your opinion, or if you don't feel like replying to them, then just scroll past that post.

For someone who insults others for being "pussies", you sure seem overly sensitive and can't handle people having different opinions. You aren't the opinion police.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'M being toxic :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You got sh*t twisted bruh. I ride w/ this organization. I've said it multiple times the views i share seem to align w/ the team more than you complainers.

Do you see anybody from our squad wanting out? Do you see Jimmy wanting out the door after his missed 3 in the ECF last season? Do you see him waning out after being injured & losing in the finals? Do you see cryptic msg's on social media criticizing certain people frm the organization? Do you hear about disgruntled players w/ issues? No, instead our players are all hoping to stay!!! Only fans whine while people directly connected to the team are in FULL SUPPORT!!

You make it like you're the only ones wanting to win a Championship lol. You don't think these players & the entire org are determined to win one? If it were that easy the entire league wld have won at the vry least 1 by now. Half the damn league ain't sniffed an nba finals. We've made 2 in 4 seasons when we had no bloody business even being there. Ya'll still don't get this sh*t!

Like i said....when we finally win 1 it will be because of the very decisions that you're all complaining about currently. Hell a lot of you wanted to tank & fire Riles & Spo.....instead we went all the way to the f*cking NBA finals & these same complainers are jerking off to our run, as a result of Spo & FO, w/ no damn shame. Then we lose & we're right back to where we started w/ the whining and ya'll don't even realize wtf you're doing. Like, how you gone put this organization under the bus then cheer when we're winning. That's why i said i don't want to see any of ya'll celebrate when we win one because we'd have won because of the very decisions you're all whining about - how the f*ck then you ride with us after all your bullsh*t. It's truly disgusting sh*t not befitting for a world class organization such as ours.


aww poor baby, people have different opinions you don't like, and you wish they would all just think as you do!

it's so hard!


Sorry dude but your dumb ass opinions just don''t line up w/ this org. So while you keep crying about Pat & our FO they will continue to do what they feel will benefit this team currently & long term. The team will keep on competing in spite of dumb ass fans such as yourself whining.

Keep cheering while we win and keep sooking after we lose. Stay classy :wink:
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1744 » by IceColdCubano » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:20 pm

stacksonstacks wrote:It's difficult to reconcile the offseason with the two sides of this past season (the regular season mediocrity vs. the playoff success). If you think we're closer to the regular season team, then it seems unlikely we can make enough moves given the cap situation to become a "true" contender in the next year or so. If you think we're closer to the playoff team, then it seems like we're one piece away (be it a bucket-getter or getting "bigger" next to bam, opinions may vary). I tend to lean toward the latter, but realistically don't think we have the assets to acquire someone in the Dame tier. Picking JJJ would seem to concede we're likely out of the Dame sweepstakes (Portland would presumably want someone younger, with more upside).

I expect our only major pre-regular season move will be to get off of Duncan's contract and attach a pick to it. Sending something like Duncan + 1-2 FRPs and getting back a bench contributor (maybe someone like Kyle Anderson or Taurean Prince from the Grizz)


I think its actually more like the middle, while we had an atrocious regular season our players did seem to somehow completely forget to shoot the basketball. With the amount of 4th close games in hand made you believe that we were to a degree always in the game because we were poised and did the right plays, so from a half court defense/offense we were doing the right things and executing just not hitting at a respectable clip. We just lacked the offensive firepower to overcome the other teams, this prove as being like #27 in offensive efficiency.

Now you flip this in the playoffs and our guys suddenly started to hit their three pointers, but to be honest at an unsustainable clip which is what was making the ESPN talking heads and Vegas odds not match their score vs what were actually producing on the court. We were completely dominating those games, like we were almost unbeaten when we were shooting over 42% from the three as team. I don't think this should expected or sustainable to be repeated. However once we came back down to earth, and shot respectively not crazy we were close in our games but lost them because we just couldn't score on the other team in paint anymore. Some of this had a lot to do with Jimmy looking injured, but that completely collapsed our paint scoring which then forced our 3pt shooters to take more of a burden. Also outside of Bam or Jimmy nobody else had the know how or where tall to play in the paint and score successfully. Bam's increase in attempts made him far less efficient than what were used to from him, and turn over prone from having to force the issue.

For me I think were kind of what Spo said, a 4th seed in truth, which makes all the sense in the world. If their are multiple areas of improvement I would say there are probably like 4 major ones.

If I was to try and catalog them in order from greatest importance to least I would do it like this.

1. A scorer/scorers: that provide rim pressure, ability to break down defenders, get easy buckets when legs are tired in the 4th quarter and you aren't going to out shoot the competition. This person could be helpful if he were an elite ball handler or shooter off the bounce that could make the defense collapse the moment they cross the three point line on any one dribble, which is why were hoping to get Damian Lillard archetype here.

2. Point of attack defender/defenders: that provide adequate above average or elite perimeter defense, with size/length/athletism either on switches not to be come a mismatch on wings. We saw how both Lowry/Vincent and god forbid when they both played together. They are both small, and slow in comparison the leagues average PG with young legs. I don't expect either one of our guards to be a successful defender on a switch against a center or PF, but the fact is most of the time it the damage was done more so against a SG/SF so your wings on other teams that tower at 6'-5" - 6'-8" just obliterate them on switches. If Miami will move forward with this core, and you cannot get a Damian Lillard then youll need to supplement our starting PG with a taller, defensive minded combo guard archetype since we already have enough ball handling that can at least at a minimum hit open threes on the offensive side.

3. Sizeable scorer at the PF spot: The power forward spot doesn't need and out of the world defender, Just have league average defense, we play defense on the power rotation as a team anyways, and love to collapse regardless to crowed and force turnovers, however what we do need is size that can rebound, is athletic, and also can score by hitting the open three from the corner at a minimum, if they can hit from everywhere and also possesses a good inside game or post game that's a plus. Listen is Kevin Love was younger this would be a match made in heaven, he showed flashes in the playoffs of him were in spurts help by being this guy were missing. I have this third on the list because we have Jovic waiting who could turn into this guy perhaps not this year but maybe still one more year away. I do believe he will get there, if he is used as trade, then this becomes another hole we need to plug. Also why most trades Miami will do they will try to keep him off of them.

4. 6th Man that microwave scorer: Most of the top elite teams to ever win championships did it with bench players who hustled and put in work, but mostly with 1 guy that pushed the scorer when the starters rested. Sometimes these guys are also great defenders in a way and turn games around but their usually mostly scorers. Which is how Miami was so successful when Tyler Herro came off the bench. Were talking the Manu Ginobili's, JR Smiths, Porter, Andrew Wiggins, Andrew Iguodala, etc. guys to helped team win championships. I think we may have something there in Caleb Martin which is why have this one on 4th in the list. I don't believe he is there offensively just yet, although improving.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1745 » by Grumpy Heat Fan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:21 pm

Heat3 wrote:If only winning a title is “enough” the what do you call the 32 years this franchise hasn’t won anything? Or the first 17 years when they won nothing? We’re you miserable all that time?


No because they weren't close. But we are close now. We've been close since the 2020 bubble.

Heat3 wrote: If they won the title this year what would you be doing right now? Would have already moved on to the off-season and be mad they aren’t making the moves you want or would you be good for a year? How much would you actually enjoy those three extra wins in the Finals. I think you’d be happy until the parade then go back to being grumpy once that was over.

I’ll be grumpy when this team only wins 18-30 games a year for 4 years straight and getting swept in the first round is only a dream. But deep playoff runs, making the finals? Entertaining me until June? That will always make me happy especially a year like this year.


A chip in the Jimmy era is what we want to see. Just one. If more, cool. But let's get one.


I don't get what you want. Are you fine with the team running it back, or do you think we need some moves? I'm not sure what you are arguing for.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1746 » by DayofMourning » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:22 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:We really do need a big replacement behind Bam. Christian Wood would be really handy but he’a probably going to want more then 6 million.


Feels like we couldve drafted one developmental big man at some point in the past five years to give Bam some help.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1747 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:23 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:We really do need a big replacement behind Bam. Christian Wood would be really handy but he’a probably going to want more then 6 million.


Feels like we couldve drafted one developmental big man at some point in the past five years to give Bam some help.

Mason Plumlee is the only big out there that could probably be had for the 6 mil tax MLE.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1748 » by DayofMourning » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:24 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:We really do need a big replacement behind Bam. Christian Wood would be really handy but he’a probably going to want more then 6 million.


Feels like we couldve drafted one developmental big man at some point in the past five years to give Bam some help.

Mason Plumlee is the only big out there that could probably be had for the 6 mil tax MLE.


We will probably give him a look. Few players could fare worse than Zeller in the PO.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1749 » by 3ballbomber » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:25 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote: :crazy: :crazy:

You keep being disrespectful,. and you can't manage your emotions and call other posters names on an online forum.


Says the guy who resorted to bringing up my mum into an argument :lol:
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1750 » by Bishop45 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:27 pm

As a free agent, what type of gymnastics would we have to go through to get Myrie?
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1751 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:31 pm

Bishop45 wrote:As a free agent, what type of gymnastics would we have to go through to get Myrie?

Way too many. S&T hard caps to the first apron handcuffing us into an oblivion
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1752 » by Heat3 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:33 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
Heat3 wrote:If only winning a title is “enough” the what do you call the 32 years this franchise hasn’t won anything? Or the first 17 years when they won nothing? We’re you miserable all that time?


No because they weren't close. But we are close now. We've been close since the 2020 bubble.

Heat3 wrote: If they won the title this year what would you be doing right now? Would have already moved on to the off-season and be mad they aren’t making the moves you want or would you be good for a year? How much would you actually enjoy those three extra wins in the Finals. I think you’d be happy until the parade then go back to being grumpy once that was over.

I’ll be grumpy when this team only wins 18-30 games a year for 4 years straight and getting swept in the first round is only a dream. But deep playoff runs, making the finals? Entertaining me until June? That will always make me happy especially a year like this year.


A chip in the Jimmy era is what we want to see. Just one. If more, cool. But let's get one.


I don't get what you want. Are you fine with the team running it back, or do you think we need some moves? I'm not sure what you are arguing for.


I want them to make the right moves and NOT make the wrong moves and I have complete trust in them that they will do both.

Making moves vs running it back? Well can you tell me ahead of time of what the results will be of each? Cause if running it back results in a deeper run than I’d rather they do that….
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1753 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:33 pm

3ballbomber wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote: :crazy: :crazy:

You keep being disrespectful,. and you can't manage your emotions and call other posters names on an online forum.


Says the guy who resorted to bringing up my mum into an argument :lol:

Cmon 3 foe list and move on. What are we going to do here continue insults until we get to 100 pages? Lets move on
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1754 » by Vertical Limit » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:35 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
Vertical Limit wrote:You all love some offseason champions like the Cavaliers last year.. what did they do again in the playoffs? Get bounced in the first round by the Knicks?

Oh and they gave up a better player in Lauri plus a bunch of picks for Mitchell


They got bounced in the first round by the Knicks, yeah. But.. come on, you know that comparison ain't valid! you already know it

Cavs are not a player away... but this Heat squad is.


I'm not sure what you are arguing? Do you think we are fine running it back? or do you think we need to make some moves?

We are not running it back. The NBA offseason is only two weeks old for **** sake. We have the expirings, the assets to make the correct move and we have until the trade deadline. We dont have to do any desperate moves for Beal, Porzingis, etc. everyone here talks about how great Beal and Porzingis is, the Wizards didnt make a single postseason with them two together and Kuzma. How great are they really? They were ass together.

All the moves the Celtics made last offseason and all we did was sign Zeller and Love and who got to the NBA Finals? We did.

Something will get done before the deadline that will improve the talent level of this team. Have some **** patience.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1755 » by contract » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:37 pm

Heat3 wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
Heat3 wrote:
No I won’t be upset because I don’t view it as Jimmy carrying bums despite bad front office moves. I view it as the front office making the right moves and not making the wrong moves which once again results in a title contender.

Considering people trash the team and FO even when they’re in the Finals, I don’t have to guess what would happen if they make all the moves people want and the team is out in the first round or back in the lottery drafting at #30 for the next 4 years.


Nobody said he is carrying bums. That's a strawman. But Jimmy has put the team on his back many times, has he not?

The reason people are upset is because they know we have Jimmy and a good team. But we need some moves to put us over the hump. Simply running it back and not being able to get over the hump is not good enough for some. It's fine for you, that's cool, you can have your opinion, and other people can have theirs.


Is he not supposed to put the team on his back? He’s the best player on the team and the leader. That’s his job. ...

Why isn't that Pat's job? Why doesn't he put the team on his back and make the moves necessary to put us over the top? That's his job.

It's great to have good years and push deep into the playoffs and all that, and some of the whining about not winning it all every single year is unreasonable expectations, but trying to improve our chances every single year is not an unreasonable expectation.

If Heat players decided that we've been having success and they didn't need to work on their game this summer, I can assure you that Pat Riley would not be OK with that. He would not be fine with them saying that they are good enough as is and are running it back and hoping that Herro is healthy for the playoffs next season. In fact I can assure you that he would respond to that by trading away those players faster than hell. "The standard" can't only apply to the players.

The same goes for Spo. If his work ethic slipped he'd be gone.

People who hold people accountable need to be accountable too.

Pat doesn't need to get us Dame Lillard or Bradley Beal or Jalen Brown or whoever the hell. But he does have to make sure that he gives the '23-'24 Heat the best chance to win ... without completely destroying the future of course. He doesn't need to land a whale. A whale may not be available to us at a reasonable price, or Micky may not be willing to swallow the tax penalties. Whatever. But if Pat can make our roster 10% - 20% better than it was this past season, then we've got a decent shot.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1756 » by MettaWorldPanda » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:38 pm

2023-24 Luxury Tax Totals
Denotes the Heat current standing in terms of the luxury tax threshold. Teams that spend over the threshold pay fines (estimated below).
TYPE TOTALS
2023 NBA Luxury Tax Threshold $165,000,000
Total Taxable Salaries $173,127,647
Current Luxury Tax Space $-8,127,647
Est. Luxury Tax Bill $12,973,384

Updated numbers. Micky’s bill went down from 19 to 12. Dumping Duncan gives us the wiggle room we need.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1757 » by dean456 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:39 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:Who is replacing Gabe?

Really good chance Bam’s bestie comes back


Gabe just seems to be a guy who loves being in the foxhole with these guys and would like to stay in this situation.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1758 » by IceColdCubano » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:39 pm

Vertical Limit wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
Vertical Limit wrote:You all love some offseason champions like the Cavaliers last year.. what did they do again in the playoffs? Get bounced in the first round by the Knicks?

Oh and they gave up a better player in Lauri plus a bunch of picks for Mitchell


They got bounced in the first round by the Knicks, yeah. But.. come on, you know that comparison ain't valid! you already know it

Cavs are not a player away... but this Heat squad is.


I'm not sure what you are arguing? Do you think we are fine running it back? or do you think we need to make some moves?

We are not running it back. The NBA offseason is only two weeks old for **** sake. We have the expirings, the assets to make the correct move and we have until the trade deadline. We dont have to do any desperate moves for Beal, Porzingis, etc. everyone here talks about how great Beal and Porzingis is, the Wizards didnt make a single postseason with them two together and Kuzma. How great are they really? They were ass together.

All the moves the Celtics made last offseason and all we did was sign Zeller and Love and who got to the NBA Finals? We did.

Something will get done before the deadline that will improve the talent level of this team. Have some **** patience.

There a full 8 days were its all chatter and then BOOM...
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1759 » by Bishop45 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:40 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:As a free agent, what type of gymnastics would we have to go through to get Myrie?

Way too many. S&T hard caps to the first apron handcuffing us into an oblivion


My Pipe dream will have to remain Sexton/OG or Tyrus/OG

or.... Sexton/Bojan, Tyrus/Bojan
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread 3.0: Dame Time 

Post#1760 » by HeatingUp3 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:45 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
HeatingUp3 wrote:
Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:agreed.

Thankfully our expirings have become more valuable due to new CBA and everyone trying to fix their apron situation


So whats the move? Trading our expiring contracts for some quality players?

I think the organization will first try and dump Robinson and Oladipo(trade or stretch to save 6 million) and get under the first apron to use bird rights to resign Gabe Vincent and get back over the line. Once we are over the tax line again by a small fraction we will use the 6 million dollar tax MLE on a rotation player that will trigger the 2nd apron hard cap. Rest of the signings will be minimums. We will carry Lowry’s expiring into the season and see if a trade opens up and if not just let him expire and get some flexibility next year.


How much time we have to stretch and trade Duncan and Dipo contracts?

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