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Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5, 2023-24 – (6PM [ET], Fri, June 30)

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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#121 » by Celts17Pride » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:25 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Prediction: We let Grant go, we keep Pritchard and Brogdon, and we sign Davison to a regular contract. We get Griffin back for the vibes. (Or add bench scoring? Terrence Ross or TJ Warren, anyone?)

Add Torrey Craig and Dwight Powell in FA if we're done with trades.

White | Brown | Tatum | Porzingis | Timelord
Pritchard | Brogdon | Hauser | Horford | Powell
Davison | Walsh | Craig | Griffin | Kornet

The only difference between your prediction and mine in general is I don't believe Brogdon will be here at the start of the season.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#122 » by ThePigeon » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:25 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Anyway, in Zarren we trust to figure out this cap ****. Then in Brad to make the necessary roster tweaks. Then in Joe to figure out how to utilize his main guys appropriately and convince them to play the right way.



I wish I had your confidence meme here...
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#123 » by MrClass » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:27 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
MrClass wrote:
Read on Twitter


tyus maybe?

Monte Morris would look good in a Celtics uniform. Revise the original Clipper deal!



Read on Twitter
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#124 » by steefP2 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:27 pm

Would love a 3 team deal where we send out brogdon, get Monte morris and another 10 mil player. But that’s probably a deadline deal
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#125 » by Celtics_Champs » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:28 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Prediction: We let Grant go, we keep Pritchard and Brogdon, and we sign Davison to a regular contract. We get Griffin back for the vibes. (Or add bench scoring? Terrence Ross or TJ Warren, anyone?)

Add Torrey Craig and Dwight Powell in FA if we're done with trades.

White | Brown | Tatum | Porzingis | Timelord
Pritchard | Brogdon | Hauser | Horford | Powell
Davison | Walsh | Craig | Griffin | Kornet

The only difference between your prediction and mine in general is I don't believe Brogdon will be here at the start of the season.


I’m really not feeling that bench, really hope they can add to it.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#126 » by CelticsPride18 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:28 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Prediction: We let Grant go, we keep Pritchard and Brogdon, and we sign Davison to a regular contract. We get Griffin back for the vibes. (Or add bench scoring? Terrence Ross or TJ Warren, anyone?)

Add Torrey Craig and Dwight Powell in FA if we're done with trades.

White | Brown | Tatum | Porzingis | Timelord
Pritchard | Brogdon | Hauser | Horford | Powell
Davison | Walsh | Craig | Griffin | Kornet


I believe we will leave 15 spot open like we did last season.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#127 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:28 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:So then we essentially traded

Marcus Smart and Grant Williams

for

KP with no extension and some 2nd rounders yeras out.





Terrile asset management imo.


Our only true point guard is hurt, I just dont see white as a PG as the vast majority of his career he has played as a shooting guard






Surely there is another deal being planned on cause this team is against the super tax and is not complete.

White/Pritchard/Davidson
Brown/Brogdon
Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
Porzingas/Horford
Timelord/Kornet


Prithcard, Hauser, Kornet,Walsh are not top 8-10 guys on championship teams, imo.


I would wait a few weeks to assess like this because:

1) Porzingis cannot sign an extension until July 6th and technically they can't even discuss it with him until then. In Brad's time as GM pretty much every trade or FA signing included at least a second year on the contract (Horford had 2 years, J-Rich had one but signed an extension, White had 3.5 years, Theis had 2.5 years, Brogdon had 3 years, Muscala had 1.5 years, Gallo's deal had a player option that seemed likely to be picked up at his age). Even almost all of his rookie/vet min signings included a second non-guaranteed year (other than Blake this past year, unless I'm missing someone else). Schroeder was the only notable player acquired without at least a second year on the deal. I'd be utterly shocked if they don't sign an extension with Porzingis when they can.

2) Grant Williams may very well leave, but I'd expect it to be via S&T if/when he does so there'd still be something to connect to his departure in your final tallies.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#128 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:30 pm

MrClass wrote:
Read on Twitter


So he wants to expand or follow up on the deal with Brogdon to LAC, Morris+ to WAS, and some combo of Tyus Jones/Monte Morris here? I'd take Delon Wright and Avjida... but LA didn't want Morris, they wanted Morris as a return for KP.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#129 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:42 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
MrClass wrote:
Read on Twitter


tyus maybe?

Monte Morris would look good in a Celtics uniform. Revise the original Clipper deal!



Monte would statistically, be the teams best playmaker
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#130 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:43 pm

Assuming we sign Jordan Walsh to a rookie minimum deal like the new CBA allows with second round picks, we are at $174,377,249 in salary for 12 players (pkus the last year of Demetrius Jackson's dead money lol):

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
Tatum / Hauser / Walsh
Porzingis / Champagnie
RWilliams / Horford / Kornet

(I just listed guys at their most natural position, please do not take this literally to mean that I think Champganie would be a second unit player over Pritchard, Kornet or even Walsh)

The key benchmarks to compare that salary to, with 3 open spots to fill:

1) The luxury tax line is $165M. We are $9,377,249 into the luxury tax right now.
2) The first tax apron is $172M. We are $2,377,249 over that line. This is the level you become hard capped at if you use the full MLE or acquire a player via sign & trade.
3) The second tax apron is $182.5M. We are $8,122,751 below that line. This is what we would be hard capped at if we use the tax payers MLE.

Key salary levels that apply to different free agents:

1) Rookie minimum = $1,102,829. This is what would apply to Mader or Begarin if we brought them over, as well as any UDFAs.
2) 2nd year minimum = $1,801,491. This would apply to JD Davison if we signe dhim to an NBA deal.
3) Vet minimum = $1,927,896. This is what the tax number would be for any vet we sign with 2 or more years of NBA service (if more than 2 years they would actually be paid more than this, but this is all that would count on our tax calc, unless the deal is more than 1 year then they count actual salary).
4) Tax payers MLE = $5M
5) Bi-Annual exception = $4.515M
6) Full MLE = $12.403M


Right now, if we used the tax payers MLE ($5M), signed JD Davison, and signed Begarin to fill the last 3 spots, I'd have us at $182,281,569 in salary. So we'd be juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust below the $182.5M 2nd tax apron.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#131 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:45 pm

CelticFaninLBC wrote:
Larry_Russell wrote:So then we essentially traded

Marcus Smart and Grant Williams

for

KP with no extension and some 2nd rounders yeras out.





Terrile asset management imo.


Our only true point guard is hurt, I just dont see white as a PG as the vast majority of his career he has played as a shooting guard






Surely there is another deal being planned on cause this team is against the super tax and is not complete.

White/Pritchard/Davidson
Brown/Brogdon
Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
Porzingas/Horford
Timelord/Kornet


Prithcard, Hauser, Kornet,Walsh are not top 8-10 guys on championship teams, imo.


Can you **** wait until mid-July before having another meltdown?

You have to be a teenager.

lol. Yeah, kind of obnoxious all of those big breaks in between paragraphs, too.

And not every post has to end with a projected 15 man depth chart for the team. The season doesn't start for another 4 months - relax haha. :)
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#132 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:46 pm

I want Jalen Suggs. Sign and trade Grant Williams into their cap room, CBA only lets us take back 8 million-ish anyway, Suggs fits.

Then trade Brogdon for another big, a backup 2-guard and/or a cheaper point guard?
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#133 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:49 pm

Not enough talk about the uncertainty in Milwaukee. It's an old roster even if Lopez and Middleton decide to come back. Not many paths to improve or replace them if they leave in FA.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#134 » by Half-Full » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:50 pm

Celtics asleep at the wheel when it comes to locking up some UDFA talent. Two players I would have liked to see signed to two-way contracts: Adama Sanogo (signed two-way with the Bulls), and Colin Castleton (signed two-way with the lakers). Another player I like is Justyn Mutts who signed a Summer League contract with the Kings.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#135 » by BK_2020 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:50 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Not enough talk about the uncertainty in Milwaukee. It's an old roster even if Lopez and Middleton decide to come back. Not many paths to improve or replace them if they leave in FA.

Maybe it's time they blow it up and trade Giannis for Jaylen Brown and picks.
They've been a 1st round and 2rd outs the last two seasons anyway.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#136 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:53 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:Assuming we sign Jordan Walsh to a rookie minimum deal like the new CBA allows with second round picks, we are at $174,377,249 in salary for 12 players (pkus the last year of Demetrius Jackson's dead money lol):

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
Tatum / Hauser / Walsh
Porzingis / Champagnie
RWilliams / Horford / Kornet

(I just listed guys at their most natural position, please do not take this literally to mean that I think Champganie would be a second unit player over Pritchard, Kornet or even Walsh)

The key benchmarks to compare that salary to, with 3 open spots to fill:

1) The luxury tax line is $165M. We are $9,377,249 into the luxury tax right now.
2) The first tax apron is $172M. We are $2,377,249 over that line. This is the level you become hard capped at if you use the full MLE or acquire a player via sign & trade.
3) The second tax apron is $182.5M. We are $8,122,751 below that line. This is what we would be hard capped at if we use the tax payers MLE.

Key salary levels that apply to different free agents:

1) Rookie minimum = $1,102,829. This is what would apply to Mader or Begarin if we brought them over, as well as any UDFAs.
2) 2nd year minimum = $1,801,491. This would apply to JD Davison if we signe dhim to an NBA deal.
3) Vet minimum = $1,927,896. This is what the tax number would be for any vet we sign with 2 or more years of NBA service (if more than 2 years they would actually be paid more than this, but this is all that would count on our tax calc, unless the deal is more than 1 year then they count actual salary).
4) Tax payers MLE = $5M
5) Bi-Annual exception = $4.515M
6) Full MLE = $12.403M


Right now, if we used the tax payers MLE ($5M), signed JD Davison, and signed Begarin to fill the last 3 spots, I'd have us at $182,281,569 in salary. So we'd be juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust below the $182.5M 2nd tax apron.

Interesting. So we can't do a sign and trade with Grant? And there's no way we can resign Grant?

I thought a S&T with Grant was a possibility - there were rumors about us discussing it with teams like Dallas. Or did that go out the window when we traded for KP?

What if we trade Brogdon and take on less salary coming back? Can we then resign grant or take salary back for him in a S&T?
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#137 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:55 pm

I would try to trade Pritchard into cap space or a TPE somewhere and sign Jevon Carter to a vet min deal. I'm guessing we could net a future 2nd for him to add to the newfound treasure chest of them.

We'd save $2,109,382 on that switch and stay the same or better on the court IMO. I broke the math down a few posts ago, but while that sounds small we're really in a huge numbers crunch against the second apron. An extra $2.1M of wiggle room would help a lot towards being able to potentially take someone back in a Grant S&T vs. only having the MLE to use.

Article on his past year with MIL talking about Carter's great defense: https://behindthebuckpass.com/2023/03/18/analyzing-jevon-carters-potential-all-defensive-bucks/

In his career he shoots 39.7% on 3 attempts from 3 per game. 42.1% on 4.2 attempts per game this past year. He's been a fringey playoff rotation guy for MIL these past two years, much like Pritchard has for us.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#138 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:55 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:I want Jalen Suggs. Sign and trade Grant Williams into their cap room, CBA only lets us take back 8 million-ish anyway, Suggs fits.

Then trade Brogdon for another big, a backup 2-guard and/or a cheaper point guard?


Suggs and anthony or okeke
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#139 » by 165bows » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:57 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:Assuming we sign Jordan Walsh to a rookie minimum deal like the new CBA allows with second round picks, we are at $174,377,249 in salary for 12 players (pkus the last year of Demetrius Jackson's dead money lol):

White / Brogdon / Pritchard
Brown
Tatum / Hauser / Walsh
Porzingis / Champagnie
RWilliams / Horford / Kornet

(I just listed guys at their most natural position, please do not take this literally to mean that I think Champganie would be a second unit player over Pritchard, Kornet or even Walsh)

The key benchmarks to compare that salary to, with 3 open spots to fill:

1) The luxury tax line is $165M. We are $9,377,249 into the luxury tax right now.
2) The first tax apron is $172M. We are $2,377,249 over that line. This is the level you become hard capped at if you use the full MLE or acquire a player via sign & trade.
3) The second tax apron is $182.5M. We are $8,122,751 below that line. This is what we would be hard capped at if we use the tax payers MLE.

Key salary levels that apply to different free agents:

1) Rookie minimum = $1,102,829. This is what would apply to Mader or Begarin if we brought them over, as well as any UDFAs.
2) 2nd year minimum = $1,801,491. This would apply to JD Davison if we signe dhim to an NBA deal.
3) Vet minimum = $1,927,896. This is what the tax number would be for any vet we sign with 2 or more years of NBA service (if more than 2 years they would actually be paid more than this, but this is all that would count on our tax calc, unless the deal is more than 1 year then they count actual salary).
4) Tax payers MLE = $5M
5) Bi-Annual exception = $4.515M
6) Full MLE = $12.403M


Right now, if we used the tax payers MLE ($5M), signed JD Davison, and signed Begarin to fill the last 3 spots, I'd have us at $182,281,569 in salary. So we'd be juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust below the $182.5M 2nd tax apron.

This is a great breakdown.

I would add that at that sub $1M under the apron, imo you have to assume they plan on going over. They will likely have 1-3 two-way guys, and teams may only carry 14 but they almost always have 15 at least to 20 total players over the year as bench guys come and go and the salaries they make get accrued to the total.

So my thought on this is: they either 1). blow past the second apron. or, 2.) don't use the MLE (or at most ~3M).

Tl;dr It's safe to assume imo that they go to one extreme or the other. Sitting $200k under the apron will push them over with bench guys, incentives for playoff wins, etc.

Obviously depends on trades but mainly feeling like Grant Williams is prob better than what they can get for 3-5M on the FA market. Personally I think they just go over but it's doable to stay under with a lot of cheap depth if that is better for flexibility.
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Re: Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5 - 2023-24 

Post#140 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 23, 2023 4:04 pm

Half-Full wrote:Celtics asleep at the wheel when it comes to locking up some UDFA talent. Two players I would have liked to see signed to two-way contracts: Adama Sanogo (signed two-way with the Bulls), and Colin Castleton (signed two-way with the lakers). Another player I like is Justyn Mutts who signed a Summer League contract with the Kings.

I mean, it would have been nice if we had scooped up someone like Terquavion Smith or Castleton.

But I'm not too worried about it. 1 rookie is enough. It's very hard for 1 rookie to try and make the team and get any minutes (on a veteran team contender for a title) let alone 2.

We still have sufficient depth at each position. Anyone we sign would be a long shot to get minutes. If it was a guard, they're behind white/JB/brigdon/pritchard/JD/Yam, if it's a wing, they're behind JB/JT/Hauser/Champagnie/Walsh if it's a big, they're behind KP/al/Rob/Kornet and possibly griffin

The guy I'd like to see us try and grab is Vincent Valerio-Bodon. The C's had him in for a pre-draft workout. He's by far the best available UDFA, in my opinion. He's a combo SF/PF. 6'9.5". Shot over 40% from 3 in the Hungary pro league. Just turned 22 so a little bit older (so more polished and ready to contribute) but still some untapped potential there.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)

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