Portland #3 trade rumors part 2

[Harold_and_Kumar]

Should have traded these dudes last deadline. The only tanking the FO was willing to do was tanking the value of our only assets. What a joke

All of this to wind up with two all-stars you can't win with that you have to pay to keep and the #13 pick. What happened to "the deals available now will still be there in the summer" crap?

The summer just started?

I get your point, but it's a bit disingenuous.

As everyone is aware, the draft is a key time of the offseason to make trades and change the outlook of your team, particularly if your goal is to get younger. So naturally, there's going to be some frustration when the clock is ticking towards midnight on locking Fred and Pascal into sizeable contracts into their early-to-mid thirties, when they're a) close to or at the end of their development curve, b) the team hasn't shown they can win with them as their best players, and c) from an entertainment perspective we were borderline unwatchable last year.

This is the company we've been in the past three seasons.

In the past three years, the Chicago Bulls have a combined 117 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in win.
In the past three years, the Toronto Raptors have a combined 116 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in loss.
In the past three years, the Washington Wizards have a combined 104 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Portland Trailblazers have a combined 102 wins, and a first round exit

So not only can we not win properly, we also can't lose properly either. Frankly, this list should look scary to everyone. So for all Masai's bluster about winning... we're not a winning team, and haven't been for three years. We are completely mediocre.

All this to say that sure, the summer just started, but the problem has been festering for a while now and deadlines are approaching. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about where we're headed because beyond Thad and Poeltl, which did not result in any substantial change in W/L despite giving up future assets, there hasn't been a lot of clarity provided.

[Rapsfan07]

Herro + Lowry (expiring) + picks for Lillard.

Yeah. I'd be surprised if that doesn't get done before the end of the summer.

[Rapsfan07]

Siakam and OG trade values were/are even lower then at the deadline. The only one who didn’t realize/know this was Masai, and that’s because there is less time on their contracts and everyone saw that these guys couldn’t even win a play-in (even after adding help)

My thoughts exactly. I mean, this isn't rocket science.

Not sure what's going on up there. How could anyone, as a multi-million dollar executive think that positive value players are going to be worth more with less time on their contracts.

Idk man. Something doesn't seem right up there. You heard it here first.

[will]

Trade for Scoot, goddammit.

[OakleyDokely]

So, how did honorary board member Jroy like the Blazers draft?

[ItsDanger]

All of this to wind up with two all-stars you can't win with that you have to pay to keep and the #13 pick. What happened to "the deals available now will still be there in the summer" crap?

The summer just started?

I get your point, but it's a bit disingenuous.

As everyone is aware, the draft is a key time of the offseason to make trades and change the outlook of your team, particularly if your goal is to get younger. So naturally, there's going to be some frustration when the clock is ticking towards midnight on locking Fred and Pascal into sizeable contracts into their early-to-mid thirties, when they're a) close to or at the end of their development curve, b) the team hasn't shown they can win with them as their best players, and c) from an entertainment perspective we were borderline unwatchable last year.

This is the company we've been in the past three seasons.

In the past three years, the Chicago Bulls have a combined 117 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in win.
In the past three years, the Toronto Raptors have a combined 116 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in loss.
In the past three years, the Washington Wizards have a combined 104 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Portland Trailblazers have a combined 102 wins, and a first round exit

So not only can we not win properly, we also can't lose properly either. Frankly, this list should look scary to everyone. So for all Masai's bluster about winning... we're not a winning team, and haven't been for three years. We are completely mediocre.

All this to say that sure, the summer just started, but the problem has been festering for a while now and deadlines are approaching. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about where we're headed because beyond Thad and Poeltl, which did not result in any substantial change in W/L despite giving up future assets, there hasn't been a lot of clarity provided.

Facts

[raf1995]

Siakam and OG trade values were/are even lower then at the deadline. The only one who didn’t realize/know this was Masai, and that’s because there is less time on their contracts and everyone saw that these guys couldn’t even win a play-in (even after adding help)

My thoughts exactly. I mean, this isn't rocket science.

Not sure what's going on up there. How could anyone, as a multi-million dollar executive think that positive value players are going to be worth more with less time on their contracts.

Idk man. Something doesn't seem right up there. You heard it here first.

But I was assured by others here that contract status didn’t matter and Pascal would be easily swapped for an elite prospect!

[bboyskinnylegs]

So, how did honorary board member Jroy like the Blazers draft?

I think he is happy with the choice to keep the pick, but from what I understand he isn't a Scoot fan.

[Fairview4Life]

All of this to wind up with two all-stars you can't win with that you have to pay to keep and the #13 pick. What happened to "the deals available now will still be there in the summer" crap?

The summer just started?

I get your point, but it's a bit disingenuous.

As everyone is aware, the draft is a key time of the offseason to make trades and change the outlook of your team, particularly if your goal is to get younger. So naturally, there's going to be some frustration when the clock is ticking towards midnight on locking Fred and Pascal into sizeable contracts into their early-to-mid thirties, when they're a) close to or at the end of their development curve, b) the team hasn't shown they can win with them as their best players, and c) from an entertainment perspective we were borderline unwatchable last year.

This is the company we've been in the past three seasons.

In the past three years, the Chicago Bulls have a combined 117 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in win.
In the past three years, the Toronto Raptors have a combined 116 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in loss.
In the past three years, the Washington Wizards have a combined 104 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Portland Trailblazers have a combined 102 wins, and a first round exit

So not only can we not win properly, we also can't lose properly either. Frankly, this list should look scary to everyone. So for all Masai's bluster about winning... we're not a winning team, and haven't been for three years. We are completely mediocre.

All this to say that sure, the summer just started, but the problem has been festering for a while now and deadlines are approaching. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about where we're headed because beyond Thad and Poeltl, which did not result in any substantial change in W/L despite giving up future assets, there hasn't been a lot of clarity provided.

In the past three years, the Cleveland Cavaliers have a combined 117 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Sacramento Kings have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the New Orleans Pelicans have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit

None of this really says anything about where a team is, either. like, the Lakers haven't won many more games over the last 3 years, had a 1st round loss 3 years ago, but made it to the conference finals this year. Are they really in a better spot? Going in the right direction? Winning "properly"? What about the Hawks, Knicks, Mavs, Clippers etc?

[Tor_Raps]

Just lock this thing up until we hear something meaningful. Hate having to look in here in hopes of something concrete lol

[Fairview4Life]

Just lock this thing up until we hear something meaningful. Hate having to look in here in hopes of something concrete lol

You won't have to look in here if something concrete happens.

[Tor_Raps]

Just lock this thing up until we hear something meaningful. Hate having to look in here in hopes of something concrete lol

You won't have to look in here if something concrete happens.

Even the hope of a legit rumour would do but there's nothing lol

[Gavin_TDThree]

sorry if already posted, but Bobby addressed the number 3 pick rumour fairly quickly around the 6:18 mark

Watch on YouTube

They asked "was 3 an option at any point" in which Bobby responded "go ask them" while chuckling. If I'm reading the tea leaves, kind of feels like we had serious interest in that third pick but Portland (as many have noted) had zero interest in trading it. Reinforcing that it was all just lip service for Lillard

[wegotthabeet]

Herro + Lowry (expiring) + picks for Lillard.

Yeah. I'd be surprised if that doesn't get done before the end of the summer.

If I was Portland I'd push for Lowry + Jovic + Martin + 2027 & 2029 unprotected.

The Heat would have to waive the protection on 2025 pick owed to OKC, but I wouldn't want Herro.

[Rapsfan07]

sorry if already posted, but Bobby addressed the number 3 pick rumour fairly quickly around the 6:18 mark

Watch on YouTube

They asked "was 3 an option at any point" in which Bobby responded "go ask them" while chuckling. If I'm reading the tea leaves, kind of feels like we had serious interest in that third pick but Portland (as many have noted) had zero interest in trading it. Reinforcing that it was all just lip service for Lillard

That's quite possible... likely, even.

I think Dame is done in Portland.

[Rapsfan07]

Herro + Lowry (expiring) + picks for Lillard.

Yeah. I'd be surprised if that doesn't get done before the end of the summer.

If I was Portland I'd push for Lowry + Jovic + Martin + 2027 & 2029 unprotected.

The Heat would have to waive the protection on 2025 pick owed to OKC, but I wouldn't want Herro.

That works too.

[WuTang_CMB]

sorry if already posted, but Bobby addressed the number 3 pick rumour fairly quickly around the 6:18 mark

Watch on YouTube

They asked "was 3 an option at any point" in which Bobby responded "go ask them" while chuckling. If I'm reading the tea leaves, kind of feels like we had serious interest in that third pick but Portland (as many have noted) had zero interest in trading it. Reinforcing that it was all just lip service for Lillard

With the Haynes Siakam news, Siakam wasn't going to commit to anyone (why should he if hes being traded) and so that hurt his value

But POR wasn't going to do that deal anyways

as I said few times, POR was just going to flirt to make Dame happy, but end up taking the BPA as they did last year

the breakup is inevitable

[Gavin_TDThree]

sorry if already posted, but Bobby addressed the number 3 pick rumour fairly quickly around the 6:18 mark

Watch on YouTube

They asked "was 3 an option at any point" in which Bobby responded "go ask them" while chuckling. If I'm reading the tea leaves, kind of feels like we had serious interest in that third pick but Portland (as many have noted) had zero interest in trading it. Reinforcing that it was all just lip service for Lillard

With the Haynes Siakam news, Siakam wasn't going to commit to anyone (why should he if hes being traded) and so that hurt his value

But POR wasn't going to do that deal anyways

as I said few times, POR was just going to flirt to make Dame happy, but end up taking the BPA as they did last year

the breakup is inevitable

I wonder if Portland could have the best of both worlds. They do still have some young players/assets they could move without completely demolishing their future. Kind of how a lot of us were clamoring for the Raps to do a soft rebuild, the Blazers could do a soft contend.

Portland has Simons, Little, Murray, and a decent amount of draft capital. They could still go out and get a high end role player to appease Dame while also maintaining their youth. They can also go scorched earth and rebuild. Not a terrible position to be in.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

The summer just started?

I get your point, but it's a bit disingenuous.

As everyone is aware, the draft is a key time of the offseason to make trades and change the outlook of your team, particularly if your goal is to get younger. So naturally, there's going to be some frustration when the clock is ticking towards midnight on locking Fred and Pascal into sizeable contracts into their early-to-mid thirties, when they're a) close to or at the end of their development curve, b) the team hasn't shown they can win with them as their best players, and c) from an entertainment perspective we were borderline unwatchable last year.

This is the company we've been in the past three seasons.

In the past three years, the Chicago Bulls have a combined 117 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in win.
In the past three years, the Toronto Raptors have a combined 116 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in loss.
In the past three years, the Washington Wizards have a combined 104 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Portland Trailblazers have a combined 102 wins, and a first round exit

So not only can we not win properly, we also can't lose properly either. Frankly, this list should look scary to everyone. So for all Masai's bluster about winning... we're not a winning team, and haven't been for three years. We are completely mediocre.

All this to say that sure, the summer just started, but the problem has been festering for a while now and deadlines are approaching. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about where we're headed because beyond Thad and Poeltl, which did not result in any substantial change in W/L despite giving up future assets, there hasn't been a lot of clarity provided.

In the past three years, the Cleveland Cavaliers have a combined 117 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Sacramento Kings have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the New Orleans Pelicans have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit

None of this really says anything about where a team is, either. like, the Lakers haven't won many more games over the last 3 years, had a 1st round loss 3 years ago, but made it to the conference finals this year. Are they really in a better spot? Going in the right direction? Winning "properly"? What about the Hawks, Knicks, Mavs, Clippers etc?

I'd agree with you on the fact that it's not an all-encompassing statistic. It was used to make a broader point about why people are frustrated, given the hyperbole of the FO about 'winning, winning, winning' and in response to an idea that people are just upset 'all of a sudden,' which is simply not the case.

All three examples you noted have been a more linear trajectory towards contending over the past three years, and are actively trying to improve through trades. The Cavs traded for Mitchell, the Kings for Sabonis, the Pelicans for McCollum and all improved. New Orleans with Zion was one of the best teams in the West before he was injured, and were trending to a better record than 42 wins. The Kings were one of the best teams in the West and the Cavs had home court in the East. The Cavs had over 50 wins.

In saying all this, I do think we're in a reasonably good position as a franchise. We have all our picks, one high-ceiling piece, two former all-stars, and an all-defensive first team candidate... I just don't see how they all fit together on the court offensively. Additionally, I think they have little chance at contention before Pascal/FVV start to decline at high salaries, which is why I think we need to retool or rebuild with younger pieces, even if the result is more losing in the shorter-term. And if teams won't trade anything of value for Pascal or Fred over the course of two seasons, you likely have your answer about whether they're good enough to lead you to a title.

Masai and Bobby just seem totally unwilling to entertain the idea of a step back for two forward. Instead they're doing the exact opposite with the Thad and Poeltl trades and it's felt like the only tool in their belt is a hammer and they're treating everything they see like it's a nail. That feeling like they're being so dogmatic is frustrating. Had they been a bit more patient about the need to make the playoffs immediately, and instead pivoted to collect more young talent that can grow, I think people would be far more forgiving.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[Fairview4Life]

I get your point, but it's a bit disingenuous.

As everyone is aware, the draft is a key time of the offseason to make trades and change the outlook of your team, particularly if your goal is to get younger. So naturally, there's going to be some frustration when the clock is ticking towards midnight on locking Fred and Pascal into sizeable contracts into their early-to-mid thirties, when they're a) close to or at the end of their development curve, b) the team hasn't shown they can win with them as their best players, and c) from an entertainment perspective we were borderline unwatchable last year.

This is the company we've been in the past three seasons.

In the past three years, the Chicago Bulls have a combined 117 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in win.
In the past three years, the Toronto Raptors have a combined 116 wins, a first round exit, and a play-in loss.
In the past three years, the Washington Wizards have a combined 104 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Portland Trailblazers have a combined 102 wins, and a first round exit

So not only can we not win properly, we also can't lose properly either. Frankly, this list should look scary to everyone. So for all Masai's bluster about winning... we're not a winning team, and haven't been for three years. We are completely mediocre.

All this to say that sure, the summer just started, but the problem has been festering for a while now and deadlines are approaching. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about where we're headed because beyond Thad and Poeltl, which did not result in any substantial change in W/L despite giving up future assets, there hasn't been a lot of clarity provided.

In the past three years, the Cleveland Cavaliers have a combined 117 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the Sacramento Kings have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit
In the past three years, the New Orleans Pelicans have a combined 109 wins, and a first round exit

None of this really says anything about where a team is, either. like, the Lakers haven't won many more games over the last 3 years, had a 1st round loss 3 years ago, but made it to the conference finals this year. Are they really in a better spot? Going in the right direction? Winning "properly"? What about the Hawks, Knicks, Mavs, Clippers etc?

I'd agree with you on the fact that it's not an all-encompassing statistic. It was used to make a broader point about why people are frustrated, given the hyperbole of the FO about 'winning, winning, winning' and in response to an idea that people are just upset 'all of a sudden,' which is simply not the case.

All three examples you noted have been a more linear trajectory towards contending over the past three years, and are actively trying to improve through trades. The Cavs traded for Mitchell, the Kings for Sabonis, the Pelicans for McCollum and all improved. New Orleans with Zion was one of the best teams in the West before he was injured, and were trending to a better record than 42 wins. The Kings were one of the best teams in the West and the Cavs had home court in the East. The Cavs had over 50 wins.

In saying all this, I do think we're in a reasonably good position as a franchise. We have all our picks, one high-ceiling piece, two former all-stars, and an all-defensive first team candidate... I just don't see how they all fit together on the court offensively. Additionally, I think they have little chance at contention before Pascal/FVV start to decline at high salaries, which is why I think we need to retool or rebuild with younger pieces, even if the result is more losing in the shorter-term. And if teams won't trade anything of value for Pascal or Fred over the course of two seasons, you likely have your answer about whether they're good enough to lead you to a title.

Masai and Bobby just seem totally unwilling to entertain the idea of a step back for two forward. Instead they're doing the exact opposite with the Thad and Poeltl trades and it's felt like the only tool in their belt is a hammer and they're treating everything they see like it's a nail. That feeling like they're being so dogmatic is frustrating. Had they been a bit more patient about the need to make the playoffs immediately, and instead pivoted to collect more young talent that can grow, I think people would be far more forgiving.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

Last season **** sucked. Before that, you could say the Raps were back on a linear trajectory too though. The arrow was going up, and then we had a **** year. Figuring out and then addressing why is important, obviously, I just don't think the 3 years of wins and playoffs tell us anything useful to answer those questions.