2023 NBA Draft (tonight's discussion on pg 58)

[DusterBuster]

Coming out of this night without a single trade, it really to me signals a youth rebuild coming soon. It’s pretty hard to see it any other way.

They didn’t even bother it seems to even do something small like unlock future picks. So the Blazers are still hamstrung by Chicago. Wtf are we even doing here.

I'm not trying to actively disagree with you across threads here, but I really don't think there's more to read into tonight than:

1. Nobody worth trading for was on the table.
2. An elite prospect fell to the Blazers' draft slot and they pounced.

I don't think this reflects any long-term commitments, moving on from Dame, or anything besides the opportunity of this particular moment.

It's all good, disagreements are fine. And I get why you feel that way, I really do. I gave Olshey the "well the deals just weren't there" benefit of the doubt constantly in the past, so I get that and understand there's a reality to it. My frustrations really come from a FO continuing to just sell everyone false hope. The actions the team is taking simply don't line up with the mission statement they claim to have time and time and time again.

There wasn't even a move to attempt to set yourself up to be in a better position around the edges.

Like I've been saying, as far as the picks, I genuinely loved them. They were all exactly the right picks of the best players on the board and I'm a firm believer in BPA over fit. So I'm happy that's what they did, but not happy that they seemed to be content to just sit on their hands.

I also just thought it was telling how bare bones and uncelebrated this pick was. Every lottery there's usually always those social media videos of Cronin making the call in the war room, the team cheering, Jody making a congratulations call, a big post-draft conference with usually Chauncey and Cronin with smiles all around. This year? With the #3 pick they're supposedly super stoked on (and should be)? Zero war room footage on social, just a quickly slapped-together graphic. No huge announcement for the presser, it was honestly hard to even find. Just Cronin alone, looking and sounding like someone just ran over his dog.

[JasonStern]

Move Simons for DDR and our pick back, resign the 3 worth resigning and call it an offseason IMO.

* assuming Dame stays

What evidence do we have that Chicago

A.) Wants to trade DDR
B.) Simons is worth DDR
C.) DDR will make us competitive enough for Dame to stay so we don’t trade Simons for nothing

Jason posting over and over that they should do that. Neutral fans seeing that it makes sense. Chicago fans realizing a LaVine/DDR/Vucevic "big three" isn't going to win anything and that they should move on.

But in reality, we all know that the NBA is a business. And DDR sells more tickets than tanking. It's the same reason the Blazers will hold onto Dame and pay Jerami Grant $30M+/season. Winning a 'chip needs ownership that is dedicated to winning a 'chip. Running a profitable business requires running up to but not over the luxury tax line while possessing enough name brand talent to keep occupancy high and sell merchandise.

[JasonStern]

Congrats on Scoot! You legitimately have two foundational building blocks for a rebuild in Scoot and Sharpe.

You're awesome, babyjax13.

Now, back to complaining about things outside of our control.

[Blazinaway]

Coming out of this night without a single trade, it really to me signals a youth rebuild coming soon. It’s pretty hard to see it any other way.

They didn’t even bother it seems to even do something small like unlock future picks. So the Blazers are still hamstrung by Chicago. Wtf are we even doing here.

I'm not trying to actively disagree with you across threads here, but I really don't think there's more to read into tonight than:

1. Nobody worth trading for was on the table.
2. An elite prospect fell to the Blazers' draft slot and they pounced.

I don't think this reflects any long-term commitments, moving on from Dame, or anything besides the opportunity of this particular moment.

It's all good, disagreements are fine. And I get why you feel that way, I really do. I gave Olshey the "well the deals just weren't there" benefit of the doubt constantly in the past, so I get that and understand there's a reality to it. My frustrations really come from a FO continuing to just sell everyone false hope. The actions the team is taking simply don't line up with the mission statement they claim to have time and time and time again.

There wasn't even a move to attempt to set yourself up to be in a better position around the edges.

Like I've been saying, as far as the picks, I genuinely loved them. They were all exactly the right picks of the best players on the board and I'm a firm believer in BPA over fit. So I'm happy that's what they did, but not happy that they seemed to be content to just sit on their hands.

I also just thought it was telling how bare bones and uncelebrated this pick was. Every lottery there's usually always those social media videos of Cronin making the call in the war room, the team cheering, Jody making a congratulations call, a big post-draft conference with usually Chauncey and Cronin with smiles all around. This year? With the #3 pick they're supposedly super stoked on (and should be)? Zero war room footage on social, just a quickly slapped-together graphic. No huge announcement for the presser, it was honestly hard to even find. Just Cronin alone, looking and sounding like someone just ran over his dog.

Cronin likely sounded that way because he knows odds are increasing Dame will ask to be traded

[JasonStern]

Always difficult to make a good move when the other teams sense desperation. I would wonder
if Cronin has earned a bit more respect from other teams by not pulling a Billy King and really
forcing a win now move when none were available.

Next up is the off season. The usual suspects like Orlando added two more guards and doesn't
need Ant. This was a draft with a lot of guards and most teams that needed one, got one and
I really wonder how much of a market is out there for Ant.

Ants value is probably nil currently given recent events. As much as i hate playing scoot out of position Without a dame trade our best move will probably be to go small ball for a time then hopefully something better comes

Dame/scoot
Anf/scoot
Shaedon
Jerami?
Nurk

Simons has more value than you think. It's just not the value some want. He is a slightly shorter Jamal Crawford. He'll never be an all-star. He'll never be the best player on a team unless that team is tanking. But he's 23, on a reasonable contract, and will career average over 20ppg unless he gets injured or plays past his expiration date. That said, Jamal Crawford was always a starter tier player. Not an all-star that returned all-star value when he was traded. A starter caliber player at a position of need is what you realistically expect in a Simons trade.

[Village Idiot]

A follow-up trade I could live with is:

Portland trades:

Damian Lillard

Portland receives:

Onyeka Onkungwu
Scottie Barnes
John Collins
Otto Porter Jr. - cut
Golden State pick via Mempis and Boston - 2024 top 4 protected, 2025 top 2 protected, 2026 unprotected

Okongwu is a fantastic young defender:

Watch on YouTube

Barnes had a rough year where he didn't improve upon his ROY campaign
Collins is still pretty young and was best when he was involved in the pick and roll.

Boston trades:

Jalen Brown
Kabengele
1st from GS via Memphis

Boston receives:

Damian Lillard

Lillard, White, Tatum, KP, RW is a championship calibur team

Atlanta trades:

DeJounte Murray
John Collins
Onyeka Okongwu

Atlanta receives:

Jalen Brown

Atlanta cuts almost $20 million salary and hopes Brown fits better next to Young than Murray did.

Toronto trades:

Scottie Barnes
OPJ

Toronto receives:

DeJounte Murray

If Siakam is insisting on staying it would seem Barnes might be the odd man out. Murray, with his size and defensive acumen, would be an ideal PG for the Raptors if they move on from Van Vleet.

[Effigy]

Does anyone know what the restrictions are on that Chicago pick? Does it eventually lose all protections or turn into a 2nd?

Yes in 2028

2024 first round draft pick to Chicago
Portland's 1st round pick to Chicago protected for selections 1-14 in 2024, 1-14 in 2025, 1-14 in 2026, 1-14 in 2027 and 1-14 in 2028; if Portland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Chicago by 2028, then Portland will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Chicago [Chicago-Portland, 8/28/2021]

Basically if we aren't winning now no need to trade it. I'm pretty sure if we were gonna make a move 23 would have gone to Chicago who I'd imagine wouldn't turn down a sure chance at a first today over a chance at a first by 2028

And this is what frustrated me at 23 so much and what made me feel lied to by Cronin.

If they were honest about their talk of "all in move around Dame" or "building around Dame's timeline". If that deal to move 23 and release that pick debt was available (not saying it was, we don't know), why don't you just do it and rip the bandaid off? Free it up so that's not hampering you on the off chance an "all in" trade comes available and you need to move 4 or 5 picks. Be proactive!

Now, if that deal theoretically were to ever come to reality and Portland needs to unlock future picks, they basically are forced to remove all protections on it so it will 100% convey to Chicago... and in that scenario, you may be looking at a lottery pick going to the Bulls now. I swear this franchise has zero vision casting for the future.

Personally I love it. I LOVE that we can't absolutely ruin our future by giving away a million picks for Pascal Siakam or whoever. Teams are being so incredibly stupid and short-sighted handing their futures over to other teams. It's going to be weird in 2027 or so when half the teams in the league don't own their own picks. I want to be the team that sells right now, not the team that buys. I want some idiot team to give us their entire draft for Dame, not be the team doing that. I love that this future pick that may only turn out be a second keeps us from making a dumb trade like that. Teams always ask for whatever you have. If Phoenix COULD have given Washington a first for Beal, Washington would have demanded it. But since they couldn't, they did the deal without it. It's why all these teams are trying to rip us off and get Sharp tossed into a Scoot trade. If we didn't have Sharpe, then Scoot might be enough for them. For sure we COULD work with Chicago and give them a pick now, but then teams would expect us to give them those picks. I'm glad we can point to the Chicago pick and say 'sorry, our hands are tied'

If there was some danger of this becoming an unprotected lottery pick, then sure, I'd want to give 23 to make that not happen? But we could just sit on our own picks and NEVER pay Chicago a first? Yeah, let's do that! I can't believe people are MAD at Olshey for that. That's brilliant!

[Norm2953]

I do think the key to a good Dame trade for Portland would be to expand the group to more
than just Brooklyn/Miami. Otherwise, Portland will be getting lowball offers for most of the
summer. The key is to get these other teams to make an offer Portland can accept

Portland could roll with Scoot, Sharpe and Simons rolling forward for both Scoot and Sharpe will
still need some time to ramp up to handle 30+ minutes/night.

[The Sebastian Express]

Toronto is in no way trading Scottie Barnes for D. Murray. Although the creativity of the trade is good.

[Effigy]

I do think the key to a good Dame trade for Portland would be to expand the group to more
than just Brooklyn/Miami. Otherwise, Portland will be getting lowball offers for most of the
summer. The key is to get these other teams to make an offer Portland can accept

Portland could roll with Scoot, Sharpe and Simons rolling forward for both Scoot and Sharpe will
still need some time to ramp up to handle 30+ minutes/night.

I'm sure Portland is willing to take offers beyond those two, but there are not a lot of good teams we could send Dame to that need a point guard. Outside of Brooklyn and Miami, who really is the candidate team? Orlando? Maybe if the trade was before the draft and could send the 6 and 11 but now what would we really want from them? Black is not going to be needed here. The Knicks are always a team that comes up, but they're probably not going to love the idea of a Dame/Brunson back court. Are you excited about trading him to the Lakers for Hachimora and their '29 pick?

[The Sebastian Express]

I'll agree with Duster re: the twenty-third pick.

IMO that had to get resolved last night or relatively soon. I feel Dame is being lied to if that isn't resolved because the terrible Nance deal we made and its restricts block us from fully opening up the opportunity to use those assets in trades to bring someone back. I think that's an incredible disservice to Dame and prevents being able to sell him on keeping Scoot, since we can't use those assets to package with Ant to bring someone back.

And also I think it's just silly to not have done so this year if we plan to tank next year. And silly since 2026 is going to have a lot of value to around the league as we approach that class. Very, imo, short-sighted move. I don't see Chicago having asked for too much to get it unrestricted since a first rounder for them this year would've been nice and the draft this year was deep with roleplayers.

[Norm2953]

I do think the key to a good Dame trade for Portland would be to expand the group to more
than just Brooklyn/Miami. Otherwise, Portland will be getting lowball offers for most of the
summer. The key is to get these other teams to make an offer Portland can accept

Portland could roll with Scoot, Sharpe and Simons rolling forward for both Scoot and Sharpe will
still need some time to ramp up to handle 30+ minutes/night.

I'm sure Portland is willing to take offers beyond those two, but there are not a lot of good teams we could send Dame to that need a point guard. Outside of Brooklyn and Miami, who really is the candidate team? Orlando? Maybe if the trade was before the draft and could send the 6 and 11 but now what would we really want from them? Black is not going to be needed here. The Knicks are always a team that comes up, but they're probably not going to love the idea of a Dame/Brunson back court. Are you excited about trading him to the Lakers for Hachimora and their '29 pick?

Dallas might be a candidate if they strike out on Kyrie

[BlazersBroncos]

I do think the key to a good Dame trade for Portland would be to expand the group to more
than just Brooklyn/Miami. Otherwise, Portland will be getting lowball offers for most of the
summer. The key is to get these other teams to make an offer Portland can accept

Portland could roll with Scoot, Sharpe and Simons rolling forward for both Scoot and Sharpe will
still need some time to ramp up to handle 30+ minutes/night.

I'm sure Portland is willing to take offers beyond those two, but there are not a lot of good teams we could send Dame to that need a point guard. Outside of Brooklyn and Miami, who really is the candidate team? Orlando? Maybe if the trade was before the draft and could send the 6 and 11 but now what would we really want from them? Black is not going to be needed here. The Knicks are always a team that comes up, but they're probably not going to love the idea of a Dame/Brunson back court. Are you excited about trading him to the Lakers for Hachimora and their '29 pick?

Dallas might be a candidate if they strike out on Kyrie

They can only really offer a pick package for him though - and even then are encumbered by owing picks to NYK and BRK.

I still have TOR on the top of my list if we move him - Scottie Barnes would be an unbelievable fit in PDX next to Scoot and Sharpe. Love his character as well, think thats the type of guy you want in a youth movement (Basically the anti-Houston who have gone pure talent, regardless of character and fit).

Whatever happens, I think PDX would want a youngster in return for Dame rather than simply picks - its much harder to sell moving Dame if all the assets in return are mystery boxes - management will want a name IMO.

[The Sebastian Express]

I will say I expect we won't hear anything about Dame's true feelings, if negative, until at least after the next few days. I don't think he'll want to take away from the spotlight for these young men being drafted and introduced.

[DusterBuster]

I will say I expect we won't hear anything about Dame's true feelings, if negative, until at least after the next few days. I don't think he'll want to take away from the spotlight for these young men being drafted and introduced.

I'm guessing we'll get a smattering of rumors from the expected people (Shams, Woj, Haynes), but we won't really hear talk of serious Dame trades until after July 7th. So Cronin has about 2 weeks to pull something out of his arse and consider my hope tank utterly depleted.

[Village Idiot]

Toronto is in no way trading Scottie Barnes for D. Murray. Although the creativity of the trade is good.

You are probably right. Easier and more likely to make it a three team deal.

Portland trades:

Dame

Portland receives:

Okongwu
Hunter
Collins
Pritchard
Golden State 1st
Boston 24 1st - unprotected

Boston trades:

Brown
Pritchard
Kafangele
Golden State 1st
Boston 24 1st - unprotected

Boston receives:

Lillard

Atlanta trades:

Okongwu
Collins
Hunter

Atlanta receives:

Brown
Kafengele

[Goldbum]

Toronto is in no way trading Scottie Barnes for D. Murray. Although the creativity of the trade is good.

You are probably right. Easier and more likely to make it a three team deal.

Portland trades:

Dame

Portland receives:

Okongwu
Hunter
Collins
Pritchard
Golden State 1st
Boston 24 1st - unprotected

Boston trades:

Brown
Pritchard
Kafangele
Golden State 1st
Boston 24 1st - unprotected

Boston receives:

Lillard

Atlanta trades:

Okongwu
Collins
Hunter

Atlanta receives:

Brown
Kafengele

This is a well thought out deal.

[Norm2953]

I would wonder if Boston would be willing to take on Dame's contract added to a potential
max contract to Tatum and I assume an extension to KP.

It is a well thought out proposal assuming the Celtics are fine with it

[tacosman]

You guys are throwing too many potential teams in the mix as destinations for dame.

The reality is, even without a ntc, this is a special case and Portland is going to send dame where he wants. That may be Miami/Brooklyn, or it may just be miami lol.

And MIami doesn't have a lot to give up, so portland will accept that. It's probably going to be a pu pu platter. Herro I guess as well who will need to be re-routed, but I don't know how much he brings. Not a lot now that he's paid and given his archetype isn't really valued now.

I just don't think portland fans should be expecting much for dame. because given the circumsrtances I don't think it will be much at all. But that's ok because they have some really good young building blocks to get excited about anyways

[RTG HD]

You guys are throwing too many potential teams in the mix as destinations for dame.

The reality is, even without a ntc, this is a special case and Portland is going to send dame where he wants. That may be Miami/Brooklyn, or it may just be miami lol.

And MIami doesn't have a lot to give up, so portland will accept that. It's probably going to be a pu pu platter. Herro I guess as well who will need to be re-routed, but I don't know how much he brings. Not a lot now that he's paid and given his archetype isn't really valued now.

I just don't think portland fans should be expecting much for dame. because given the circumsrtances I don't think it will be much at all. But that's ok because they have some really good young building blocks to get excited about anyways

You are missing the obvious. We don't have to do anything and we absolutely don't have to take back bad value. We have Dame until his contract runs out. If he chooses to leave so be it.