Trade/Free Agency Thread, pt 5, 2023-24 – (6PM [ET], Fri, June 30)

[Larry_Russell]

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Delon was better then Monte. Is cheaper and still good defender

Why not both? Brogdon makes $22.5 million, Morris and Wright makes a combined $17.9 million. Two depth pieces and $4.6 million more cap room.

Wright can play sg too

[hugepatsfan]

Interesting. So we can't do a sign and trade with Grant? And there's no way we can resign Grant?

I thought a S&T with Grant was a possibility - there were rumors about us discussing it with teams like Dallas. Or did that go out the window when we traded for KP?

What if we trade Brogdon and take on less salary coming back? Can we then resign grant or take salary back for him in a S&T?

We can do a S&T with Grant if we want. Hard capped applies to acquiring a player via S&T, not sending someone out. There is no hard cap restriction there.

HOWEVER, as the payroll currently stands, if we do a Grant S&T to take back a player, it's likely pushing us past the second apron without a follow up move. As would re-signing him even to his qualifying offer. Can always do a S&T that acquires a TPE though, which may or may not come in handy over the next year.

Trading Brogdon for a lower salary player would be one way to open up some wiggle room. Also consider roster spots. For example, let's just hypothetically we traded Brogdon to the Mavericks for Tim Hardaway Jr. and JaVale McGee. Combined those guys make $23,632,008, which is $1,132,008 more than Brogdon's $22.5M salary. However, consider that it also means one less roster spot to fill. So that could be looked at as a money saving deal even though we're taking on more money.

The other "bloated" salary is Pritchard at $4M. I think most of us would like to believe that given a role he could be worth that, maybe more, but if he's limited to a 15 minute/night type of role, you can fill that with a vet min and save a couple of million.

Those are the moves I'd be looking at... trading Brogdon for a lower salary player or multiple players making close to the same amount as him (so roster spot savings can be applied) and then moving Pritchard to a team that wants to take a flier on him and finding a vet min type of guy. That combo of moves could get you to where I think you can take a player back in a Grant S&T.

I'm not sure I get all the focus on the taxpayer MLE. The new CBA essentially nuked the taxMLE making it barely more useful than a vet min. The taxMLE is only 5.0M, that's not much more than the 10 year vet min of 3.2 million. And it hard caps you at the 2nd apron. The solution to all of this is simple: Just don't use the taxMLE. Let's be clear here: The quality of player you'll get with the taxMLE isn't much if any different than the guy you'll get with a vet min. Its better to keep your options over whether its matching a Grant contract, acquiring more salary mid season, ect. The flexibility alone is far more valuable than the taxMLE.

And as a reminder: The penalties for the second apron don't kick in this year, so its literally just tax money. They should feel free to go over the 2nd apron, and they SHOULD go over it. Its their last chance to do so penalty free.

Penalties do not kick in this year, but the penalties get progressively more punitive over the years if you stay over that apron. So going over this year puts us in line for "repeater penalties" down the line in the years that Tatum/brown extensions will be on the books. Good business to stay under if we can this year to potentially delay repeater penalties down the line.

$3.2M vs $5.0M is bigger than you make it. It's easy to write that off when it's not your money. And also an extreme example to use a 10 year vet number because how many 10 year vets are there really that any of us would want? There have been a lot of young players over the years forced to settle for taxpayers MLE for their second contracts. Those guys will definitely want the extra close to $3M they can get on the MLE.

All that being said, I am not married to using the MLE. I was merely presenting the full financial picture of what we can or cannot do. My ideal scenario would be to prioritize re-signing Grant either to keep or S&T for $10Mish salary at another position (Reggie Bullock in DAL is an attainable guy I like). I prefer that over MLE. But I'd still like to avoid the 2nd apron just to save financial struggles down the line. So I'd be looking to move Brogdon for a smaller salary (i.e. Sexton) and dump Pritchard for a 2nd to replace him with a vet min type guy. That will accommodate both goals.

[snowman]

Interesting. So we can't do a sign and trade with Grant? And there's no way we can resign Grant?

I thought a S&T with Grant was a possibility - there were rumors about us discussing it with teams like Dallas. Or did that go out the window when we traded for KP?

What if we trade Brogdon and take on less salary coming back? Can we then resign grant or take salary back for him in a S&T?

We can do a S&T with Grant if we want. Hard capped applies to acquiring a player via S&T, not sending someone out. There is no hard cap restriction there.

HOWEVER, as the payroll currently stands, if we do a Grant S&T to take back a player, it's likely pushing us past the second apron without a follow up move. As would re-signing him even to his qualifying offer. Can always do a S&T that acquires a TPE though, which may or may not come in handy over the next year.

Trading Brogdon for a lower salary player would be one way to open up some wiggle room. Also consider roster spots. For example, let's just hypothetically we traded Brogdon to the Mavericks for Tim Hardaway Jr. and JaVale McGee. Combined those guys make $23,632,008, which is $1,132,008 more than Brogdon's $22.5M salary. However, consider that it also means one less roster spot to fill. So that could be looked at as a money saving deal even though we're taking on more money.

The other "bloated" salary is Pritchard at $4M. I think most of us would like to believe that given a role he could be worth that, maybe more, but if he's limited to a 15 minute/night type of role, you can fill that with a vet min and save a couple of million.

Those are the moves I'd be looking at... trading Brogdon for a lower salary player or multiple players making close to the same amount as him (so roster spot savings can be applied) and then moving Pritchard to a team that wants to take a flier on him and finding a vet min type of guy. That combo of moves could get you to where I think you can take a player back in a Grant S&T.

Good to know. But if we do all of that, we wouldn't have the taxpaer MLE to sign a vet for $5 mil...or would we?

OK, I don't consider myself a capologist or anything close to it. However, I see it like this. Boston will be "in the mix" as Brad says, or ownership will not stay in the lux tax very long. If we need to go into the 2nd apron to do this, we will.

Starting with the starting lineup, Brad will extend Bown with full max and extend Zinger at his max of 2 years @ 77 mil total. He will also extend Tatum with full max when it is his time. He will extend White at some point also if he keeps up playing like he is. As long as Rob's legs don't get worse, he will keep him going forward too. I believe it is his goal to keep these five together as long as possible regardless of cost.

Starters: White, Brown, Tatum, Zinger, R. Williams.

I believe our bench will be in a constant flow of movement finding the right pieces at the right price going forward, changing from year to year. I see Brad working out a sign and trade on Grant Williams, using a second-round pick to two to get as large of a TPE as possible. This is the tool Brad will use going forward because he won't have the cap space to sign free agents other than to minimum deals.

Bench under contract now:
Pritchard, Brogdon, Hauser, Kornet, Horford
That's it. We have 5 roster spots and 3 2-way spots that can be filled, and we are at 171,346,524.00 in salary with 10 players under contract. The second tax apron is $182.5M, leaving us 11,153,476 below the 2nd apron with 4-5 players to sign. I don't see us using the taxpayer MLE unless a player becomes available that Brad really wants, but that will hard cap us. I see us signing players like Davison, Kabengele and Champagnie should all be minimum salary players, and one more minimum FA player and keeping a roster spot open. I see Walsh as a 2-way, and 2 other FA's signed as 2-ways and that's about it unless a trade opens up for Brogdon or were able to take back a minimum player in the Grant sign and trade.

White, Brown, Tatum, Zinger, Williams
Pritchard, Brogdon, Hauser, Horford, Kornet
Davison, Champagnie, (minimum salary FA Wing), Kabengele
2-ways Walsh, FA, FA

[NotAKnicksFan]

Go aquire Cole Anthony

Trade brogdon and pritchard

[lon3lytoaster]

What’s the deadline for Burks’ team option? Or did I miss it? Thought he was an UFA, but guessing that contract will get picked up by Detroit

[keevsnick1]

We can do a S&T with Grant if we want. Hard capped applies to acquiring a player via S&T, not sending someone out. There is no hard cap restriction there.

HOWEVER, as the payroll currently stands, if we do a Grant S&T to take back a player, it's likely pushing us past the second apron without a follow up move. As would re-signing him even to his qualifying offer. Can always do a S&T that acquires a TPE though, which may or may not come in handy over the next year.

Trading Brogdon for a lower salary player would be one way to open up some wiggle room. Also consider roster spots. For example, let's just hypothetically we traded Brogdon to the Mavericks for Tim Hardaway Jr. and JaVale McGee. Combined those guys make $23,632,008, which is $1,132,008 more than Brogdon's $22.5M salary. However, consider that it also means one less roster spot to fill. So that could be looked at as a money saving deal even though we're taking on more money.

The other "bloated" salary is Pritchard at $4M. I think most of us would like to believe that given a role he could be worth that, maybe more, but if he's limited to a 15 minute/night type of role, you can fill that with a vet min and save a couple of million.

Those are the moves I'd be looking at... trading Brogdon for a lower salary player or multiple players making close to the same amount as him (so roster spot savings can be applied) and then moving Pritchard to a team that wants to take a flier on him and finding a vet min type of guy. That combo of moves could get you to where I think you can take a player back in a Grant S&T.

I'm not sure I get all the focus on the taxpayer MLE. The new CBA essentially nuked the taxMLE making it barely more useful than a vet min. The taxMLE is only 5.0M, that's not much more than the 10 year vet min of 3.2 million. And it hard caps you at the 2nd apron. The solution to all of this is simple: Just don't use the taxMLE. Let's be clear here: The quality of player you'll get with the taxMLE isn't much if any different than the guy you'll get with a vet min. Its better to keep your options over whether its matching a Grant contract, acquiring more salary mid season, ect. The flexibility alone is far more valuable than the taxMLE.

And as a reminder: The penalties for the second apron don't kick in this year, so its literally just tax money. They should feel free to go over the 2nd apron, and they SHOULD go over it. Its their last chance to do so penalty free.

Penalties do not kick in this year, but the penalties get progressively more punitive over the years if you stay over that apron. So going over this year puts us in line for "repeater penalties" down the line in the years that Tatum/brown extensions will be on the books. Good business to stay under if we can this year to potentially delay repeater penalties down the line.

$3.2M vs $5.0M is bigger than you make it. It's easy to write that off when it's not your money. And also an extreme example to use a 10 year vet number because how many 10 year vets are there really that any of us would want? There have been a lot of young players over the years forced to settle for taxpayers MLE for their second contracts. Those guys will definitely want the extra close to $3M they can get on the MLE.

All that being said, I am not married to using the MLE. I was merely presenting the full financial picture of what we can or cannot do. My ideal scenario would be to prioritize re-signing Grant either to keep or S&T for $10Mish salary at another position (Reggie Bullock in DAL is an attainable guy I like). I prefer that over MLE. But I'd still like to avoid the 2nd apron just to save financial struggles down the line. So I'd be looking to move Brogdon for a smaller salary (i.e. Sexton) and dump Pritchard for a 2nd to replace him with a vet min type guy. That will accommodate both goals.

But that doesn't really matter because the plan would presumably not to be over the 2nd apron at all other than maybe for a year or two at the most, because the penalties are fairly crippling. So why worry about repeater penalties for something you are unlikely to repeat going forward? Taking advantage this year then getting back under in future years makes more sense then the inverse given the penalties.

I'm working off the assumption here that the c's are going to effectively treat the 2nd apron as a hard cap going forward since the draft pick/team building penalties are pretty severe. So I'm not worried about financial penalties for being over.

I stand by the statement on the taxMLE. There just isn't much difference between 5 million and even the smaller vet mins amounts. The guy you sign in that spot isn't going to make much of an impact either way. Its just far more useful to keep flexibility open in case a trade you like comes along mid year. As a general rule you should avoid hard capping yourself for the sake of some guy who will be the 10th man.

But look, I don't know what the c's plan is. Maybe they plan on just blowing by the 2nd apron in the future. If that's the plan then fine! Great! I would understand staying under this year. I just doubt that's the plan, and if so its fine going over this year or at least retaining the option of doing so.

The Celtics may very well not go over the second apron, but I also doubt they use the taxMLE. They'll avoid the hard cap just for the flexibility.

[Larry_Russell]

Go aquire Cole Anthony

Trade brogdon and pritchard

This times 100.


Cole anthony and in an ideal world snag Suggs on the low as well.

The 2 of them, if I am correct, will match the maximum the Cs can take back in a deal involving s&T grant.

[hugepatsfan]

If we do free up the tax payers MLE to play with, Anthony Lamb from the Warriors is someone I'd target. He's an RFA, so they get a chance to match. But where their team salary is (already over the 2nd apron before re-signing Draymond like they're expected to do), I'm skeptical they'd match a $5M tax payers MLE offer. The tax implications would be multiplied many times for them.

[Larry_Russell]

wrong,

In this past playoff smart tied for the 4th most fga in the clutch time...converting on 57% of them (behind only Williams)
In the regular seaon he was 4th

you are just throwing out statements that are not true.

Disagree. Watch the games. Who takes the last shot? You seldom see Tatum or Brown doing it. You even said it yourself, the reason why he does that is because Tatum and Brown are covered or they had "no choice". Who shot the ball with the game on the line in the playoffs? Wasn't Brown and Wasn't Tatum. I get you're not pumped that Smart is gone but its going to make both of them better by not relying on someone else to finish a game. Smart was your finisher. You can't sit here and say the statement isn't true when we literally just watched this scenario play out vs Philly and Miami. Even Game 6 vs Miami when the season was on the line who took the shot? Yeah White tipped it in but who was it that took the shot? Game 4 in Philly...who took that shot. Game 7 vs Miami last year that the Celtics won, who almost shot them out of that game?

Again I like the player but his importance on offense here was magnified and you can't deny that. He wants to be Steph but he's not that guy. There's nothing wrong with being an excellent defensive guard with a little offense.

Also who was wide open for a pass back . White eoukd have had an unguarded jumper . I’m sure that was an option discussed in the huddle. Nope. Marcus tried to play hero AGAIN. Good riddance.

you realize that EVERY talking head stated that was a right play from smart right?

[playa-hater]

I am not against trading Brogdon.. But it seems like you guys are too quick to give him off..

But with that said I am keeping an open mind.

[Larry_Russell]

Brogdon, Kornet and a pick Pick to Utah for Olynyk and Dunn?

Saves 10 million allowing for a sign and trade of Grant bringing in backup Shooting guards.

White/Pritchard/Dunn
Brown/??/??
Tatum/Hauser/Walsh
Kristaps/Horford/Griffin?
Timelord/Olynyk/Kabengele?

[Celts17Pride]

Anyone else feel like there's something missing with this roster construction?

I hope Brad isn't done. Something about it feels like we need just one more piece. Maybe a wing, or established PG.

It's not even July 1st yet, off-season has just begun. I'm sure Brad Stevens is far from finished.

[playa-hater]

Brogdon and a pick Pick to Utah for Olynyk and Dunn?

I like KO but do not like Dunn..

[playa-hater]

Anyone else feel like there's something missing with this roster construction?

I hope Brad isn't done. Something about it feels like we need just one more piece. Maybe a wing, or established PG.

It's not even July 1st yet, off-season has just begun. I'm sure Brad Stevens is far from finished.

To me the biggest thing missing is confirmation that brogdon should be ready by the start of this season..

[Larry_Russell]

Brogdon and a pick Pick to Utah for Olynyk and Dunn?

I like KO but do not like Dunn..

me either, but as a 3rd point guard on an expiring deal there are wose options.

he can be used as filler at deadline if a deal needed made.


again, it saves 10 million which would allow for a grant sign and trade to happen, netting, hopefully, another 2nd rounder and a couple of bench shooting guards. (Suggs and caleb houston for example)

[playa-hater]

Brogdon and a pick Pick to Utah for Olynyk and Dunn?

I like KO but do not like Dunn..

me either, but as a 3rd point guard on an expiring deal there are wose options.

he can be used as filler at deadline if a deal needed made.


again, it saves 10 million which would allow for a grant sign and trade to happen, netting, hopefully, another 2nd rounder and a couple of bench shooting guards. (Suggs and caleb houston for example)

I like your idea of Suggs or Cpke anthony better

[Celts17Pride]

Anyone else feel like there's something missing with this roster construction?

I hope Brad isn't done. Something about it feels like we need just one more piece. Maybe a wing, or established PG.

It's not even July 1st yet, off-season has just begun. I'm sure Brad Stevens is far from finished.

To me the biggest thing missing is confirmation that brogdon should be ready by the start of this season..

To me the biggest thing missing is confirmation that Brogdon is traded.

[playa-hater]

It's not even July 1st yet, off-season has just begun. I'm sure Brad Stevens is far from finished.

To me the biggest thing missing is confirmation that brogdon should be ready by the start of this season..

To me the biggest thing missing is confirmation that Brogdon is traded.

But he needs to be confirmed to be healthy to get better chances of trading him for a valuable return.. No one's taking an injured broughton at that salary

[bfchs123]

This is way late but can anyone succinctly describe what we ended up trading and what we are left with now in terms of picks?

[Half-Full]

Celtics asleep at the wheel when it comes to locking up some UDFA talent. Two players I would have liked to see signed to two-way contracts: Adama Sanogo (signed two-way with the Bulls), and Colin Castleton (signed two-way with the lakers). Another player I like is Justyn Mutts who signed a Summer League contract with the Kings.

I mean, it would have been nice if we had scooped up someone like Terquavion Smith or Castleton.

But I'm not too worried about it. 1 rookie is enough. It's very hard for 1 rookie to try and make the team and get any minutes (on a veteran team contender for a title) let alone 2.

We still have sufficient depth at each position. Anyone we sign would be a long shot to get minutes. If it was a guard, they're behind white/JB/brigdon/pritchard/JD/Yam, if it's a wing, they're behind JB/JT/Hauser/Champagnie/Walsh if it's a big, they're behind KP/al/Rob/Kornet and possibly griffin

The guy I'd like to see us try and grab is Vincent Valerio-Bodon. The C's had him in for a pre-draft workout. He's by far the best available UDFA, in my opinion. He's a combo SF/PF. 6'9.5". Shot over 40% from 3 in the Hungary pro league. Just turned 22 so a little bit older (so more polished and ready to contribute) but still some untapped potential there.

I really wasn't thinking of signing any of the players I mentioned with the expectation they would be getting minutes with the team. I was thinking of two-way contracts, of which we will have two, maybe three if JD stays with the team. So, technically with the team, but likely to only see minutes in Maine.