Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[gambitx777]

We still have 3 PGs, and with the Porzingus trade Boston is left with Brogden and Pritchard. Could we turn Morris or Wright into the 25th pick they just got from Memphis? If we would have to take some salary back from Boston it’s not clear who it would be. Horford at 10M?

If that was something they had an appetite for it would have been done.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[doclinkin]

Can someone else affirm that we don't have more leverage in trading Kuzma than we did with KP, and that getting the #17th pick from the Lakers in a Kuzma S&T is never going to happen?

Sorta, and true.

We had leverage with Porzingis because his value on the open market may or may not have been greater than the $36m guaranteed if he opted in. It would be a gamble and a risk for him to opt out, given his injury history it was to his benefit to take the dollars on the table and hope to maintain his health.

The leverage we have with Kuz is of a different nature. He believes he is worth more than the $13m his contract will pay him. The market will probably bear that out. The problem is Kuzma has interests outside of basketball, where he figures the opportunities that are available to him off court may outweigh the value of the contract he can earn from the teams that have the cap space to sign him.

SO. The only way Kuz gets to play for a team in a market desirable to him is to opt out but allow the Wiz to work out a sign and trade with a team that is capped out but would like his services, to the mutual benefit of all. Team Desirable Market gets a multi-tooled big who can defend a bit, rebound a bit, do a little of this and a little of that and has a ring. Team Kuzma gets a nice big contract some place that fits his image, with marketing opportunities, fashion, and so on. Team Wingers Wizards gets something for a player that would otherwise walk for nothing.

So. New York. Brooklyn. LA. The other LA. Miami. Possibly Atlanta. These are the markets that would seem to match Kuz' business interests. All are over the cap if I recall correctly. So, if Kuz' agent and the Wiz front office can propose a deal that is amenable to these teams, and they want his services, then hey maybe he squeezes in.

The aspect where your debate partner has a point is this: LeBJ has a ton of sway over what LA does. He has said nice things about Kuz since he left. He won a ring with him. LA has shed draft picks many times in attempting to appease LeBJ, who doesn't really have a lot of time left in the league to mess around with training any new rookies (other than eventually, Bronny).

IF Bron wants Kuz, then LA will try to work out a deal. I don't see who they swap out for Kuz, or if he is worth the 17 to them, but that is the one wildcard in the Kuz' s&t scenario. If a global icon thinks that Kuz is the missing piece. As he did with Russ in the trade that swapped out Kuzma in the first place.

[joshuacf]

Can someone else affirm that we don't have more leverage in trading Kuzma than we did with KP, and that getting the #17th pick from the Lakers in a Kuzma S&T is never going to happen?

Sorta, and true.

We had leverage with Porzingis because his value on the open market may or may not have been greater than the $36m guaranteed if he opted in. It would be a gamble and a risk for him to opt out, given his injury history it was to his benefit to take the dollars on the table and hope to maintain his health.

The leverage we have with Kuz is of a different nature. He believes he is worth more than the $13m his contract will pay him. The market will probably bear that out. The problem is Kuzma has interests outside of basketball, where he figures the opportunities that are available to him off court may outweigh the value of the contract he can earn from the teams that have the cap space to sign him.

SO. The only way Kuz gets to play for a team in a market desirable to him is to opt out but allow the Wiz to work out a sign and trade with a team that is capped out but would like his services, to the mutual benefit of all. Team Desirable Market gets a multi-tooled big who can defend a bit, rebound a bit, do a little of this and a little of that and has a ring. Team Kuzma gets a nice big contract some place that fits his image, with marketing opportunities, fashion, and so on. Team Wingers Wizards gets something for a player that would otherwise walk for nothing.

So. New York. Brooklyn. LA. The other LA. Miami. Possibly Atlanta. These are the markets that would seem to match Kuz' business interests. All are over the cap if I recall correctly. So, if Kuz' agent and the Wiz front office can propose a deal that is amenable to these teams, and they want his services, then hey maybe he squeezes in.

The aspect where your debate partner has a point is this: LeBJ has a ton of sway over what LA does. He has said nice things about Kuz since he left. He won a ring with him. LA has shed draft picks many times in attempting to appease LeBJ, who doesn't really have a lot of time left in the league to mess around with training any new rookies (other than eventually, Bronny).

IF Bron wants Kuz, then LA will try to work out a deal. I don't see who they swap out for Kuz, or if he is worth the 17 to them, but that is the one wildcard in the Kuz' s&t scenario. If a global icon thinks that Kuz is the missing piece. As he did with Russ in the trade that swapped out Kuzma in the first place.

The point you make about Kuzma wanting to go to certain places for his brand is something I hadn't thought about, and valid, but I don't think that makes our leverage with Kuzma any more strong. KP very likely had a similar number of places that he would go, which gave us the same leverage.

As you point out, Kuzma has non-basketball aspirations that drive him to want to go to major media markets. However, KP has basketball aspirations that drive him to want to go to certain teams. You point out that Kuz might accept a trade to Brooklyn, New York, or Atlanta because of their brand opportunities. Would KP accept a trade to Brooklyn, New York, or Atlanta? I don't think he would. I think KP was only opting in and playing ball with us if he got to go to a real title contender.

So we do have some leverage over Kuzma in that Kuzma wants to go to certain media markets and we can use that to our advantage. However, we had that same leverage over KP in that KP was only opting in to go to a legitimate contender.

In regards to LeGM, I don't have any indication that LeGM wants Kuzma back at this exact point. After all, as you mentioned, he was the one that pushed for Kuzma to be traded for Russ in the first place. At this point, I'd imagine that LeBron is looking for guards over wings. Sure he may like Kuzma, but he also likes Cedi Osman and Tristian Thompson. Kuzma is obviously better than those two, but I still don't see Bron pushing for a Kuzma S&T. Now if it comes out that Bron does want Kuzma, then we do have legit leverage that we didn't have with KP. But until that story breas, I have to assume we're in a similar position in terms of leverage as we were in with KP (except Kuzma is worse than KP and teams aren't going to be willing to give up as much).

[Benjammin]

Monte Morris no longer has as his Twitter profile picture of him in a Wizards uniform. Now it's just black.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Frichuela]

Monte Morris no longer has as his Twitter profile picture of him in a Wizards uniform. Now it's just black.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Yep. Possible trade incoming.

These are the teams with available cap space. Intrigued to see where he ends up and what we get in return. Charlotte’s heavily protected 2024 1st owned by the Spurs would be a great heist (most likely becomes 2026 and 2027 2nd rounders). The Spurs lack a vet PG.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

[Frichuela]

To clear our PG log jam someone posted this on the general trade board. Thoughts?

In this scenario I would love to get Garuba also on the trade. I still like his potential despite not being given much of an opportunity in Houston.

Rockets send: KJ Martin, Josh Christopher, 2nds
Rockets get: Tyus Jones

Knicks send: Eric Fournier, worst of their two firsts next year
Knicks get: KJ Martin, TPE/The ability to use the full MLE

Wizards send: Tyus Jones
Wizards get: Fournier, worst of Dallas/NYK/DET/WAS first, 2nds from Houston, Josh Christopher

Rockets trade KJ and cap space for a vet PG.

Knicks get a cheap contributor on the wing and room to use the MLE below the tax

Wiz get a first, a "second draft" guy who was a recent FRP and some seconds for Tyus and taking on a less than desirable expiring contract

[nate33]

We still have 3 PGs, and with the Porzingus trade Boston is left with Brogden and Pritchard. Could we turn Morris or Wright into the 25th pick they just got from Memphis? If we would have to take some salary back from Boston it’s not clear who it would be. Horford at 10M?

The Celtics have Derrick White who is their 3rd best player. They're fine at PG.

[payitforward]

To clear our PG log jam someone posted this on the general trade board. Thoughts?

In this scenario I would love to get Garuba also on the trade. I still like his potential despite not being given much of an opportunity in Houston.

Rockets send: KJ Martin, Josh Christopher, 2nds
Rockets get: Tyus Jones

Knicks send: Eric Fournier, worst of their two firsts next year
Knicks get: KJ Martin, TPE/The ability to use the full MLE

Wizards send: Tyus Jones
Wizards get: Fournier, worst of Dallas/NYK/DET/WAS first, 2nds from Houston, Josh Christopher

Rockets trade KJ and cap space for a vet PG.

Knicks get a cheap contributor on the wing and room to use the MLE below the tax

Wiz get a first, a "second draft" guy who was a recent FRP and some seconds for Tyus and taking on a less than desirable expiring contract

Assuming competent management in Houston, they're not trading Martin.

If Houston is willing to trade KMart Jr. -- get him here!

I like Tyus Jones, but I'd do the deal w/o the Knicks: Houston gets Jones, we get Martin & 2ds. Plus Christopher, who is a bust. Get rid of him any way we can.

[payitforward]

But wait... I see on Spotrac that Houston has not extended Martin!
I.e. there's no reason to assume competent management!

I'd be making that kid an offer pronto!
Does anyone have Will Dawkins email address...?

[Jay81]

Whst about taking a chance on Suggs or fulrz. Orlando seems done with them. I'm not crazy about either one but if they are cheap enough.....

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

[9 and 20]

I'm kind of surprised Monte wasn't traded on draft night. Maybe he was almost traded and was given the heads-up. He could help some teams. I'm sure Denver would welcome him back, but not sure what they'd want for him. Both LA teams could use him.

[JAR69]

To clear our PG log jam someone posted this on the general trade board. Thoughts?

In this scenario I would love to get Garuba also on the trade. I still like his potential despite not being given much of an opportunity in Houston.

Rockets send: KJ Martin, Josh Christopher, 2nds
Rockets get: Tyus Jones

Knicks send: Eric Fournier, worst of their two firsts next year
Knicks get: KJ Martin, TPE/The ability to use the full MLE

Wizards send: Tyus Jones
Wizards get: Fournier, worst of Dallas/NYK/DET/WAS first, 2nds from Houston, Josh Christopher

Rockets trade KJ and cap space for a vet PG.

Knicks get a cheap contributor on the wing and room to use the MLE below the tax

Wiz get a first, a "second draft" guy who was a recent FRP and some seconds for Tyus and taking on a less than desirable expiring contract

Assuming competent management in Houston, they're not trading Martin.

If Houston is willing to trade KMart Jr. -- get him here!

I like Tyus Jones, but I'd do the deal w/o the Knicks: Houston gets Jones, we get Martin & 2ds. Plus Christopher, who is a bust. Get rid of him any way we can.

How about cut out Houston instead?

Knicks trade Fournier and our protected first round pick back to us in exchange for our 2026 and 2027 second round picks (the picks they would get if the first rounder doesn't convey by 2026).

Based on our rebuilding plan, there is a decent chance the first rounder doesn't convey. And they get salary relief to help sign Josh Hart, stay farther away from the luxury tax and aprons, keep the full non-taxpayer MLE, and get an $18.8 million TPE. Maybe the Knicks think that's a little light for a potential back-of-lottery pick.

[DCZards]

I'm kind of surprised Monte wasn't traded on draft night. Maybe he was almost traded and was given the heads-up. He could help some teams. I'm sure Denver would welcome him back, but not sure what they'd want for him. Both LA teams could use him.

I’ve seen it reported that there are a few teams interested in Monte. I can see why. He’s solid.

The Zards would probably get more in a trade for Jones…but, personally, I’d like to see Tyus as our starting PG next season. With Delon as the backup.

[NatP4]

Whst about taking a chance on Suggs or fulrz. Orlando seems done with them. I'm not crazy about either one but if they are cheap enough.....

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

I’d be all over Suggs. Orlando took a massive turn in the wrong direction recently with the Black and Howard picks.

I wonder if they would do a Kispert Suggs swap?

[The Consiglieri]

I'm kind of surprised Monte wasn't traded on draft night. Maybe he was almost traded and was given the heads-up. He could help some teams. I'm sure Denver would welcome him back, but not sure what they'd want for him. Both LA teams could use him.

I’ve seen it reported that there are a few teams interested in Monte. I can see why. He’s solid.

The Zards would probably get more in a trade for Jones…but, personally, I’d like to see Tyus as our starting PG next season. With Delon as the backup.

For me the thing to evaluate is whether Jones will carry more value, having been seen running that Memphis offense so well without Ja last season, or whether a few months running what will likely be our anemic, ---- show squad could increase his value in time for the deadline next year.

Whatever seems the most reasonable perspective should be our objective. Because of his age, there shouldn't be any interest at all in retaining these guys long term, period. Yes there's some value in evaluating talent w/competent guard play, but I'm highly skeptical that anything on the roster that's only signed through '25 will want to stick around. So for me, sell everything, just develop a strategy for marketing for best return since in general, the team generated the least return imaginable with its 3 most valuable assets last week (and over years).

[nate33]

How about cut out Houston instead?

Knicks trade Fournier and our protected first round pick back to us in exchange for our 2026 and 2027 second round picks (the picks they would get if the first rounder doesn't convey by 2026).

Based on our rebuilding plan, there is a decent chance the first rounder doesn't convey. And they get salary relief to help sign Josh Hart, stay farther away from the luxury tax and aprons, keep the full non-taxpayer MLE, and get an $18.8 million TPE. Maybe the Knicks think that's a little light for a potential back-of-lottery pick.

I don’t understand. As you point out, that pick we owe the. Is very unlikely to convey, so it really is two 2nds. Essentially we get absolutely nothing in return from the Knicks. We are turning Jones into Fournier with no compensation at all.

[pcbothwel]

How about cut out Houston instead?

Knicks trade Fournier and our protected first round pick back to us in exchange for our 2026 and 2027 second round picks (the picks they would get if the first rounder doesn't convey by 2026).

Based on our rebuilding plan, there is a decent chance the first rounder doesn't convey. And they get salary relief to help sign Josh Hart, stay farther away from the luxury tax and aprons, keep the full non-taxpayer MLE, and get an $18.8 million TPE. Maybe the Knicks think that's a little light for a potential back-of-lottery pick.

Is very unlikely to convey, so it really is two 2nds….

Trade aside… we can’t keep thinking this. History would suggest that if you get a top 8 pick 4 years in a row (top 10 for 5 years), the. Your rebuild is more or less failing. Look at any decent rebuild and you would see that.
Look at the teams picking 9-12 the last few years. No reason to believe after 3 years of rebuilding we won’t be there. And losing the ~10th pick would be tough.

[penbeast0]

Whst about taking a chance on Suggs or fulrz. Orlando seems done with them. I'm not crazy about either one but if they are cheap enough.....

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

I’d be all over Suggs. Orlando took a massive turn in the wrong direction recently with the Black and Howard picks.

I wonder if they would do a Kispert Suggs swap?

That leaves us with even more undersized guards. Suggs and a decent pick for Tyus Jones?

[NatP4]

Whst about taking a chance on Suggs or fulrz. Orlando seems done with them. I'm not crazy about either one but if they are cheap enough.....

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

I’d be all over Suggs. Orlando took a massive turn in the wrong direction recently with the Black and Howard picks.

I wonder if they would do a Kispert Suggs swap?

That leaves us with even more undersized guards. Suggs and a decent pick for Tyus Jones?

A rebuilding team in Orlando, isn't trading away their former top 5 pick a couple years ago(that has developed into a really good player)+a draft pick, for a journeyman backup PG.

I'm sure they would have interest in a young-ish low usage off ball shooter to put next to Wagner/Banchero/Black/Howard though, and Suggs represents significantly more long term upside for us, at a position of need.

[The Consiglieri]

How about cut out Houston instead?

Knicks trade Fournier and our protected first round pick back to us in exchange for our 2026 and 2027 second round picks (the picks they would get if the first rounder doesn't convey by 2026).

Based on our rebuilding plan, there is a decent chance the first rounder doesn't convey. And they get salary relief to help sign Josh Hart, stay farther away from the luxury tax and aprons, keep the full non-taxpayer MLE, and get an $18.8 million TPE. Maybe the Knicks think that's a little light for a potential back-of-lottery pick.

Is very unlikely to convey, so it really is two 2nds….

Trade aside… we can’t keep thinking this. History would suggest that if you get a top 8 pick 4 years in a row (top 10 for 5 years), the. Your rebuild is more or less failing. Look at any decent rebuild and you would see that.
Look at the teams picking 9-12 the last few years. No reason to believe after 3 years of rebuilding we won’t be there. And losing the ~10th pick would be tough.

Plenty of reason. We got nothing of value for our half ---ed big 3. Nothing, teams that do tear downs get pieces to rebuild with. We have nothing other than the picks we earn from sucking going forward, and whatever nickels we can get for Deni, Kispert and Poole's bad contract moving forward. This rebuild will take longer because of the mismanagement of the team assets since Wall fell out of the shower 4.5 years ago. Whether they make the picks well or not, we aren't likely to convey a top 8 pick to the Knicks. I don't have a problem asking for the pick back, but if we do, we need to get more than the pick, which is highly unlikely to convey, a lot more. We are going to bad, real bad, for a long while. The rebuild was totally botched the past several years and as a result, we're starting from a vastly weaker position than other rebuild teams the past half decade.