2023 Off-season Thread

[sunsbg]

Just to let everyone here know, Olympiacos offered Sasha Vezenov a 4 year contract worth $18 million to stay with them.

Source ?

Was just looking for news on this front and decided to check Kings board and see what are their offseason goals.

So Kings can match with 10M per, which is probably enough for Vezenkov to make the jump.

Question to Kings fans - do you prefer Sasha for 10M or someone like Cam Johnson for 20M ? As ex-Sun I have asked myself this question in the past. Cam J is a better shooter and a bit better defender probably, but with his injury history not quite sure. They are same age too.

[codydaze]

I've been all in on chasing Naz Reid and Bruce Brown as FA targets. I think if you can grab those two and still bring back Lyles or Vezenkov (ideally both) that is a massive W.

Fox-Davion
Huerter-Monk-Jones
Keegan-Brown-Kessler
Naz-Vezenkov-Slawson
Sabonis-Lyles-Queta

That would be really stretching the dollar and might not be attainable depending on what Naz and Brown sign for, but that's my perfect world offseason plan.

I don't like going after Naz Reid as much anymore. Just listening to the TWolves guys they are talking about Naz can't be relied upon as a rim protector and can only be used sparingly as a small ball 5 and isn't really suited to a starting 4.
I don't think the Kings spend on that. At first glance he is great, and at stages, he has dominated against the Kings, but overall not sure. He has a very high usage (24.9 this past season and over 21 the season prior). He is only going on 24 though so he does have room to grow.

Against the Kings
16/12/3 this past season 16.7mpg - terrible shooting from 3 - 115 ORTG/119 DRTG
13/8/3 in 21-22 - 13.8mpg - shooting .500 from 3 - 137 ORTG/110 DRTG

Overall:
2022-23
11/4.9/1.1 - 18.4mpg - .346 from 3 - 111 ORTG/112 DRTG

2021-22
8/3.9/0.9 - 15.8mpg - .343 from 3 - 111 ORTG/111 DRTG

I've kinda felt this way lately as well.

It almost reminds me of Dedmon. I remember that year we were looking for a center to "fit" next to Bagley, and on paper (much like Naz Reid) Dedmon was the perfect fit. At the end the talent just didn't match the fit.

I wouldn't compare it to Dedmon at all. Dedmon was 30 when we signed him and Naz is only 24, he fits the timeline perfectly. For the minutes he got in Minnesota, those per game numbers are also very good. His per 36 line is 22.5/9.6/2.2 on great efficiency. I think he's going to flourish wherever he goes next.

[blind prophet]

Just to let everyone here know, Olympiacos offered Sasha Vezenov a 4 year contract worth $18 million to stay with them.

Source ?

Was just looking for news on this front and decided to check Kings board and see what are their offseason goals.

So Kings can match with 10M per, which is probably enough for Vezenkov to make the jump.

Question to Kings fans - do you prefer Sasha for 10M or someone like Cam Johnson for 20M ? As ex-Sun I have asked myself this question in the past. Cam J is a better shooter and a bit better defender probably, but with his injury history not quite sure. They are same age too.

It worked out with Bogdan here in the past.

But to me honestly no I don't want to see the Kings spend anywhere near even 10 million for him. I'd be pissed off.

[OxAndFox]

Just to let everyone here know, Olympiacos offered Sasha Vezenov a 4 year contract worth $18 million to stay with them.

Source ?

Was just looking for news on this front and decided to check Kings board and see what are their offseason goals.

So Kings can match with 10M per, which is probably enough for Vezenkov to make the jump.

Question to Kings fans - do you prefer Sasha for 10M or someone like Cam Johnson for 20M ? As ex-Sun I have asked myself this question in the past. Cam J is a better shooter and a bit better defender probably, but with his injury history not quite sure. They are same age too.

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

[sunsbg]

It worked out with Bogdan here in the past.

But to me honestly no I don't want to see the Kings spend anywhere near even 10 million for him. I'd be pissed off.

It's a different league, but Vezenkov was just named MVP of the EL. Really small sample size, but he was the leader in last EU championship in rebounds over players like Jokic, Giannis, etc. and was in top 3 IIRC as a scorer.

I'm not sure he's a worse player than Cam J, who was rumored to want 18-20M contract while on the Suns. With the new CBA things may have changed. Vezenkov is probably not worse than Barnes either, who I saw in a previous post some of you are ok to sign for 15M. I think 6M on Vezenkov will not get it done.

[OxAndFox]

How are we feeling about a day 1 role for Colby as the backup 3 to start? I'm more excited about him than Sasha tbh, he brings defense which this team badly lacks, and another playmaker which is always helpful.

Sabonis/??????
????/?????
Murray/Jones
Huerter/Monk
Fox/Mitchell

35.7 million of cap space.

My ideal use of that money is Hart, PJ Washington, Lyles.

My official guess.. Kuzma, Lyles, Sasha, Dwight Powell

I think it would be valuable to put him in a playing role as quick as possible. Doesn't mean he plays every night, but he needs semi consistent minutes and games to play through mistakes.
The way Colby plays fits with this group of players and his D should be able to offset some of his shortcomings on offense ie 3pt shooting.

[sunsbg]

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

It's a net amount in EU contracts, so 4.5M net per year if what Mirotic12 wrote is correct. Can't find anything on the net yet.
Of course I'm not an expert and there is also buyout involved which complicates it.

[OxAndFox]

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

It's a net amount in EU contracts, so 4.5M net per year if what Mirotic12 wrote is correct. Can't find anything on the net yet.
Of course I'm not an expert and there is also buyout involved which complicates it.

Oh, okay, so any figure already has taxes taken into account. Makes sense.

The buyout is marginal. I believe is just under $1m so not a big deal. It might also be a reason to offer Vezenkov such a big deal right now because it just might make it tougher for an NBA move later down the line. It would be interesting to see the details of what a buyout would be. It might make it almost unrealistic moving forward.
Take Usman Garuba, he had a $3m Euro buyout. That's ok, he is young and betting on himself to make up for it. Not sure you would want to do that in 1-2 years being Vezenkov.

Vezenkov isn't even close to the top earners in Euroleague so money would be important on this next contract. For context, I think it was Olympiakos had a 9m euro team budget either last year or the year before. The average team budget is around $9m US.
So effectively what Mirotic is saying, Olympiakos just offered Vezenkov half the team budget from I think either this last season, or the season prior. That's not nothing, and would clearly make him the 2nd highest paid player behind Mirotic. Not the poster, but the player.

[LightTheBeam]

I don't like going after Naz Reid as much anymore. Just listening to the TWolves guys they are talking about Naz can't be relied upon as a rim protector and can only be used sparingly as a small ball 5 and isn't really suited to a starting 4.
I don't think the Kings spend on that. At first glance he is great, and at stages, he has dominated against the Kings, but overall not sure. He has a very high usage (24.9 this past season and over 21 the season prior). He is only going on 24 though so he does have room to grow.

Against the Kings
16/12/3 this past season 16.7mpg - terrible shooting from 3 - 115 ORTG/119 DRTG
13/8/3 in 21-22 - 13.8mpg - shooting .500 from 3 - 137 ORTG/110 DRTG

Overall:
2022-23
11/4.9/1.1 - 18.4mpg - .346 from 3 - 111 ORTG/112 DRTG

2021-22
8/3.9/0.9 - 15.8mpg - .343 from 3 - 111 ORTG/111 DRTG

I've kinda felt this way lately as well.

It almost reminds me of Dedmon. I remember that year we were looking for a center to "fit" next to Bagley, and on paper (much like Naz Reid) Dedmon was the perfect fit. At the end the talent just didn't match the fit.

I wouldn't compare it to Dedmon at all. Dedmon was 30 when we signed him and Naz is only 24, he fits the timeline perfectly. For the minutes he got in Minnesota, those per game numbers are also very good. His per 36 line is 22.5/9.6/2.2 on great efficiency. I think he's going to flourish wherever he goes next.

Possibly. But it's a bit concerning that Towns missed most of the season, and he still only played 18mpg. Most of those times the production doesn't translate when those guys suddenly start getting 25-30mpg.

It's a risk. Not 100% confident in which direction it would go. We could be sitting here a year from now saying Reid is the ideal fit and 15 million is a steal.. he's averaging 16/8 and the efficiency from 3 stayed. Or we could be sitting here saying we paid a 1st to dump richaun just to pay Naz reid to be our 15mpg backup center.

Hes not a clear cut pf, he has no evidence of being a 25-30mpg starter in this league. I still think the risk could be worth it, but I'd want to feel good about the price.

[KF10]

There's some chatter about the Kings making a run at Draymond, maybe renouncing Barnes to do it.

Ranadive's rep precedes him.

Draymond would elevate the level of this Kings team by a considerable amount, imo.

I know Draymond has his own faults but I go after him if I was the GM.

[OxAndFox]

There's some chatter about the Kings making a run at Draymond, maybe renouncing Barnes to do it.

Ranadive's rep precedes him.

Draymond would elevate the level of this Kings team by a considerable amount, imo.

I know Draymond has his own faults but I go after him if I was the GM.

Absolutely. He has to be part of the convo. HATE his antics, but he is a defensive savant and despite the spacing issues he can play backup 5 and the passing between him and Sabonis would be next level.
I still think Fox/Rich P gets a Klutch client to join him in Sacramento.

[BoogieTime]

Draymond doesn’t stretch the floor or play away from Sabonis enough offensively IMO

I’d want someone younger as well

[sunsbg]

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

It's a net amount in EU contracts, so 4.5M net per year if what Mirotic12 wrote is correct. Can't find anything on the net yet.
Of course I'm not an expert and there is also buyout involved which complicates it.

Oh, okay, so any figure already has taxes taken into account. Makes sense.

The buyout is marginal. I believe is just under $1m so not a big deal. It might also be a reason to offer Vezenkov such a big deal right now because it just might make it tougher for an NBA move later down the line. It would be interesting to see the details of what a buyout would be. It might make it almost unrealistic moving forward.
Take Usman Garuba, he had a $3m Euro buyout. That's ok, he is young and betting on himself to make up for it. Not sure you would want to do that in 1-2 years being Vezenkov.

Vezenkov isn't even close to the top earners in Euroleague so money would be important on this next contract. For context, I think it was Olympiakos had a 9m euro team budget either last year or the year before. The average team budget is around $9m US.
So effectively what Mirotic is saying, Olympiakos just offered Vezenkov half the team budget from I think either this last season, or the season prior. That's not nothing, and would clearly make him the 2nd highest paid player behind Mirotic. Not the poster, but the player.

I'm sure Vezenkov would like to play for the Kings, but the contract details are important to him. A fair contract, which is probably around 10M means he would get a chance even if there are bumps initially adjusting to NBA game. As a young player he was burnt on Barcelona's bench, from what I have heard partly because as NBA prospect he was not in their longterm plans. Top EU teams are known for playing the veterans. So now that he got his chance on Oly he's cautious. Being a star in EL against rotting on the bench in US is not a small difference if you are going to get paid the same. I still don't see any reports of 4M+ offered by Oly, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Zeno]

hey just thought I'd pass on a link I found saying Kings offered Vezenkov a contract already.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/report-sacramento-kings-offer-contract-110000978.html

[DaddyCool19]

How is Olympiacos offering him 4,5M net? They had a 15M budget in 21/22 and their president claimed, that they made it to the finals, with the 10th hoghest budget.

They are rumored to spend around 8,5M net for their players. I don't think they can afford offering him 4,5M. That's close to Mirotic money and Barca wants to get rid off him.

I think offering around 6-7M per year on a 3-4 year deal (maybe with a player option) would be enough to land him.

[sunsbg]

How is Olympiacos offering him 4,5M net? They had a 15M budget in 21/22 and their president claimed, that they made it to the finals, with the 10th hoghest budget.

They are rumored to spend around 8,5M net for their players. I don't think they can afford offering him 4,5M. That's close to Mirotic money and Barca wants to get rid off him.

I think offering around 6-7M per year on a 3-4 year deal (maybe with a player option) would be enough to land him.

Looks like the 4.5M was made up by Mirotic12. The latest info on the net suggests Kings offered something between 7-8M with a raise in second season. I guess this gets it done.

As a side note I don't think giving a lot of money to the teammate-puncher is a good decision for you guys. Green and Sabonis are not a good fit offensively. His playmaking is redundant. Someone who can defend but also hit 3s fits a lot better.

[Mirotic12]

Source ?

Was just looking for news on this front and decided to check Kings board and see what are their offseason goals.

So Kings can match with 10M per, which is probably enough for Vezenkov to make the jump.

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

It's a net amount in EU contracts, so 4.5M net per year if what Mirotic12 wrote is correct. Can't find anything on the net yet.
Of course I'm not an expert and there is also buyout involved which complicates it.

Let me clarify. The 4 years $18 million contract that Olympiacos offered to Vezenkov was in gross terms (before taxes and agent fees), and converted to US dollars from Euros. I went ahead and changed it to how the NBA counts it (gross and in USD), so that it wouldn't be confusing since in Europe, yes they list the contracts in net terms. That's usually confusing to NBA fans.

So it would just be like 4 years and $18 million in the NBA. Or more exactly, it would convert to something like 4 years $18.4 million in the NBA.

[OxAndFox]

Source ?

Was just looking for news on this front and decided to check Kings board and see what are their offseason goals.

So Kings can match with 10M per, which is probably enough for Vezenkov to make the jump.

How does matching mean $10m per year?
4/$18m in Europe equals 4/$40m in US?

It's a net amount in EU contracts, so 4.5M net per year if what Mirotic12 wrote is correct. Can't find anything on the net yet.
Of course I'm not an expert and there is also buyout involved which complicates it.

Let me clarify. The 4 years $18 million contract that Olympiacos offered to Vezenkov was in gross terms (before taxes and agent fees), and converted to US dollars from Euros. I went ahead and changed it to how the NBA counts it (gross and in USD), so that it wouldn't be confusing since in Europe, yes they list the contracts in net terms. That's usually confusing to NBA fans.

So it would just be like 4 years and $18 million in the NBA. Or more exactly, it would convert to something like 4 years $18.4 million in the NBA.

Thanks for that. Great info everyone. Really appreciate it.
Seems as if the Kings have a specific role for Vezenkov mapped out.

[Mirotic12]

Oh, okay, so any figure already has taxes taken into account. Makes sense.

The buyout is marginal. I believe is just under $1m so not a big deal. It might also be a reason to offer Vezenkov such a big deal right now because it just might make it tougher for an NBA move later down the line. It would be interesting to see the details of what a buyout would be. It might make it almost unrealistic moving forward.
Take Usman Garuba, he had a $3m Euro buyout. That's ok, he is young and betting on himself to make up for it. Not sure you would want to do that in 1-2 years being Vezenkov.

Vezenkov isn't even close to the top earners in Euroleague so money would be important on this next contract. For context, I think it was Olympiakos had a 9m euro team budget either last year or the year before. The average team budget is around $9m US.
So effectively what Mirotic is saying, Olympiakos just offered Vezenkov half the team budget from I think either this last season, or the season prior. That's not nothing, and would clearly make him the 2nd highest paid player behind Mirotic. Not the poster, but the player.

If any sources are saying the budgets in EuroLeague are that low, you absolutely cannot trust them at all. Those types of budgets get listed usually coming from the teams themselves, because they are trying to cover up expenses. The EuroLeague currently does not have a rule that the teams have to release actual budgets - they can just claim any amount they want. And claiming budgets way lower than the actual amount is what they often do, to make it appear like they "did more with less".

At the end of the seasons though, the media gets the actual budgets from the sports agencies, and they are way higher than 9 million. From the numbers that come from the media, not the clubs (skewed downwards), the four smallest budgets in the EuroLeague are:

18. ALBA Berlin - €12 million euros
17. Zalgiris Kaunas - €12 million euros
16. Red Star Belgrade - €12 million euros
15. ASVEL - €16 million euros

So no team has a budget lower than €12 million euros. Olympiacos has a budget of around €25 million euros, which is like a midlevel EuroLeague budget. While the teams at the higher end, like say Real Madrid and Barcelona, have budgets of around €45 million euros. When the 2024-25 season starts, EuroLeague teams won't be allowed to fudge their budgets anymore, as a new rule will make them publish all the actual budget amounts. But for the time being, you can still see these fake budgets that are much lower than the actual ones being published.

[sunsbg]

Let me clarify. The 4 years $18 million contract that Olympiacos offered to Vezenkov was in gross terms (before taxes and agent fees), and converted to US dollars from Euros. I went ahead and changed it to how the NBA counts it (gross and in USD), so that it wouldn't be confusing since in Europe, yes they list the contracts in net terms. That's usually confusing to NBA fans.

So it would just be like 4 years and $18 million in the NBA. Or more exactly, it would convert to something like 4 years $18.4 million in the NBA.

Ah I see. Makes sense now. Sounds like Kings are offering around 3M more so I hope Vezenkov accepts it. I think it's a good deal for both sides.