Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[MN7725]

My guess is Hayes would cost almost nothing, he's been terrible for 3 years and shown little improvement. Suggs Is a guy I'd like to go after, but it would likely take a mid 1st to get him (something the Wolves don't have). I'd pass on Anthony since I'm not a big fan of his game (undersized with streaky shooting and poor defense).

Cole is a one of the best rebounding guards in the league, his size will be a defensive issue always, but rebounding his position at elite level is a good tradeoff

I think Cole is a guy that gets played off the floor in the playoffs. I'm really hoping that whoever ends up as the Wolves long term PG is a guy that wouldn't be an obvious target for opposing offenses.

90% of PGs are hunted defensively in the playoffs, or the team is at least trying to hide them, is just the nature of being the smallest player on the court

[Norseman79]

What do people think Killian Hayes would cost? I'm curious to see perceived value. How about Jalen Suggs? Will Suggs be more expensive than Anthony?

My guess is Hayes would cost almost nothing, he's been terrible for 3 years and shown little improvement. Suggs Is a guy I'd like to go after, but it would likely take a mid 1st to get him (something the Wolves don't have). I'd pass on Anthony since I'm not a big fan of his game (undersized with streaky shooting and poor defense).

I'm not going to lie to you, it's certainly seemed like Hayes flipped a switch especially towards the end of the year. If you don't believe me go look. He ended up averaging 10 and 6 this year which isn't great, But after the All-Star break he averaged 12 and 7 and 1.5 steals per game. The three-point shooting is an obvious concern, but the other parts to his game are solid. If he's as cheap as you say, he would move way up my list. He also is it about an 80% free throw shooter

[SO_MONEY]

Fans sure have high expectations for PG...

[wolves_89]

Cole is a one of the best rebounding guards in the league, his size will be a defensive issue always, but rebounding his position at elite level is a good tradeoff

I think Cole is a guy that gets played off the floor in the playoffs. I'm really hoping that whoever ends up as the Wolves long term PG is a guy that wouldn't be an obvious target for opposing offenses.

90% of PGs are hunted defensively in the playoffs, or the team is at least trying to hide them, is just the nature of being the smallest player on the court

Looking at the list of high minute PGs from last season I'd only count 7-8 of the top 30 that are obvious targets. I really don't want the Wolves to be one of those teams.

[MN7725]

Fans sure have high expectations for PG...

that's where the wolves are at

I thought pre-Gobert trade the Wolves biggest need was upgrading Russell, so hated that trade spent pretty much all the ammo

people can consider Conley an upgrade, I won't argue that, but lets be real, he was still probably the 2nd worse starting PG on a playoff team

unless KAT is being moved, I don't see a way for Wolves to upgrade from Conley, so its trying to find a FVV (undrafted) type outcome

[TimberKat]

What do people think Killian Hayes would cost? I'm curious to see perceived value. How about Jalen Suggs? Will Suggs be more expensive than Anthony?

My guess is Hayes would cost almost nothing, he's been terrible for 3 years and shown little improvement. Suggs Is a guy I'd like to go after, but it would likely take a mid 1st to get him (something the Wolves don't have). I'd pass on Anthony since I'm not a big fan of his game (undersized with streaky shooting and poor defense).

I'm not going to lie to you, it's certainly seemed like Hayes flipped a switch especially towards the end of the year. If you don't believe me go look. He ended up averaging 10 and 6 this year which isn't great, But after the All-Star break he averaged 12 and 7 and 1.5 steals per game. The three-point shooting is an obvious concern, but the other parts to his game are solid. If he's as cheap as you say, he would move way up my list. He also is it about an 80% free throw shooter

He was one of those guys that was hype up to be the best value or the next Chris Paul. That's why I don't trust any draft picks. It's a box of chocolate and you don't know what you really going to get most of the time. Is Cade Cunningham going to be a good player?

[wolves_89]

What do people think Killian Hayes would cost? I'm curious to see perceived value. How about Jalen Suggs? Will Suggs be more expensive than Anthony?

My guess is Hayes would cost almost nothing, he's been terrible for 3 years and shown little improvement. Suggs Is a guy I'd like to go after, but it would likely take a mid 1st to get him (something the Wolves don't have). I'd pass on Anthony since I'm not a big fan of his game (undersized with streaky shooting and poor defense).

I'm not going to lie to you, it's certainly seemed like Hayes flipped a switch especially towards the end of the year. If you don't believe me go look. He ended up averaging 10 and 6 this year which isn't great, But after the All-Star break he averaged 12 and 7 and 1.5 steals per game. The three-point shooting is an obvious concern, but the other parts to his game are solid. If he's as cheap as you say, he would move way up my list. He also is it about an 80% free throw shooter

I'm not a believer in Hayes getting to the point of even being a neutral impact player anytime soon. He also is getting paid $7.4M next season which is money that could be better spent elsewhere.

[SO_MONEY]

Fans sure have high expectations for PG...

that's where the wolves are at

I thought pre-Gobert trade the Wolves biggest need was upgrading Russell, so hated that trade spent pretty much all the ammo

people can consider Conley an upgrade, I won't argue that, but lets be real, he was still probably the 2nd worse starting PG on a playoff team

unless KAT is being moved, I don't see a way for Wolves to upgrade from Conley, so its trying to find a FVV (undrafted) type outcome

I get it, but why are people interested in trading for junk when we already spent most of our assets? Not that the names are all that impressive in the first place, still we might not even have enough for them as is.

Unfortunately we just have to get lucky. Pull some young kid off the scrap heap and have them become something. Giving up our few assets in these high risk, high turnover ventures is not very strategic.

The good news is we should be able to attract a lot of these types of players due to opportunity.

[Norseman79]

Fans sure have high expectations for PG...

that's where the wolves are at

I thought pre-Gobert trade the Wolves biggest need was upgrading Russell, so hated that trade spent pretty much all the ammo

people can consider Conley an upgrade, I won't argue that, but lets be real, he was still probably the 2nd worse starting PG on a playoff team

unless KAT is being moved, I don't see a way for Wolves to upgrade from Conley, so its trying to find a FVV (undrafted) type outcome

I get it, but why are people interested in trading for junk when we already spent most of our assets? Not that the names are all that impressive in the first place, still we might not even have enough for them as is.

Unfortunately we just have to get lucky. Pull some young kid off the scrap heap and have them become something. Giving up our few assets in these high risk, high turnover ventures is not very strategic.

The good news is we should be able to attract a lot of these types of players due to opportunity.

I'm only curious as to who you consider assets? Prince, moore jr... If that's what it would take to get a solid backup point guard I really don't consider that a bad trade.

[SO_MONEY]

that's where the wolves are at

I thought pre-Gobert trade the Wolves biggest need was upgrading Russell, so hated that trade spent pretty much all the ammo

people can consider Conley an upgrade, I won't argue that, but lets be real, he was still probably the 2nd worse starting PG on a playoff team

unless KAT is being moved, I don't see a way for Wolves to upgrade from Conley, so its trying to find a FVV (undrafted) type outcome

I get it, but why are people interested in trading for junk when we already spent most of our assets? Not that the names are all that impressive in the first place, still we might not even have enough for them as is.

Unfortunately we just have to get lucky. Pull some young kid off the scrap heap and have them become something. Giving up our few assets in these high risk, high turnover ventures is not very strategic.

The good news is we should be able to attract a lot of these types of players due to opportunity.

I'm only curious as to who you consider assets? Prince, moore jr... If that's what it would take to get a solid backup point guard I really don't consider that a bad trade.

I am saying the names out there, realistic ones are probably equal to players you can find. I am not interested in using anything for strictly a backup PG. Then there are a lot of the names will probably take draft capital we don't have and can't afford to give up and the kicker is they are still in the backup catagory. If Prince and Moore can get you a young potential starting PG super duper, but that just isn't likely.

I think the likely thing is to trade or cut Prince for space, sign NAW and he is your backup and you add some third string guy who maybe has potential. It is not perfect, but it is more likely.

[shrink]

This is why the PG glut in WAS and ORL is such a fit for us.

The CBA is not designed so you can have a better player than your opponents at every position, and we will have spent to have an advantage most nights at 3-4 spots. We can’t afford a starter that costs a lot of salary or trade assets to bring in. Fortunately, these guys that are ranked like the 25th to 40th best PGs should not cost a lot of either. Plus, we have a smaller role for them anyway.

[SO_MONEY]

This is why the PG glut in WAS and ORL is such a fit for us.

The CBA is not designed so you can have a better player than your opponents at every position, and we will have spent to have an advantage most nights at 3-4 spots. We can’t afford a starter that costs a lot of salary or trade assets to bring in. Fortunately, these guys that are ranked like the 25th to 40th best PGs should not cost a lot of either. Plus, we have a smaller role for them anyway.

I don't want any of the WAS guys because there isn't the upward trajectory we need. The name that gets tossed around a lot is Tyus, but his cap number, the fact he is an expiring and probably most important he is questionable, he struggles as a backup for stretches.

Suggs and Anthony might be slightly better options, but what will they cost? And are they the players you empty the shelves for?

I guess thoes are my questions...

As I touched on NAW seems the most realistic option.

[Norseman79]

This is why the PG glut in WAS and ORL is such a fit for us.

The CBA is not designed so you can have a better player than your opponents at every position, and we will have spent to have an advantage most nights at 3-4 spots. We can’t afford a starter that costs a lot of salary or trade assets to bring in. Fortunately, these guys that are ranked like the 25th to 40th best PGs should not cost a lot of either. Plus, we have a smaller role for them anyway.

I don't want any of the WAS guys because there isn't the upward trajectory we need. The name that gets tossed around a lot is Tyus, but his cap number, the fact he is an expiring and probably most important he is questionable, he struggles as a backup for stretches.

Suggs and Anthony might be slightly better options, but what will they cost? And are they the players you empty the shelves for?

I guess thoes are my questions...

As I touched on NAW seems the most realistic option.

If you think Alexander Walker can handle backup point guard, then I'm all for it. Who do you get to be your backup shooting guard then?

[SO_MONEY]

This is why the PG glut in WAS and ORL is such a fit for us.

The CBA is not designed so you can have a better player than your opponents at every position, and we will have spent to have an advantage most nights at 3-4 spots. We can’t afford a starter that costs a lot of salary or trade assets to bring in. Fortunately, these guys that are ranked like the 25th to 40th best PGs should not cost a lot of either. Plus, we have a smaller role for them anyway.

I don't want any of the WAS guys because there isn't the upward trajectory we need. The name that gets tossed around a lot is Tyus, but his cap number, the fact he is an expiring and probably most important he is questionable, he struggles as a backup for stretches.

Suggs and Anthony might be slightly better options, but what will they cost? And are they the players you empty the shelves for?

I guess thoes are my questions...

As I touched on NAW seems the most realistic option.

If you think Alexander Walker can handle backup point guard, then I'm all for it. Who do you get to be your backup shooting guard then?

I think you have to find an undervalued FA, but the SG market is better than the PG market to do that.

[Nick K]

Come on guys....can't we stop this trade Kat talk? Especially for the dog meat you are suggesting in return. Especially draft picks!! These draft guys haven't played a minute with the big boys. Draft picks 85% are fools gold. Sure you might get a 'fitter" a decent guy that is complimentary or slightly better.

Kat is 29 and just into his prime. Kat is a 23-12-4 guy career. He's 53% fg, 40% from 3. 86% from the line career. How many guys can you say that about. Then you want to give him away for so little in my mind. The team has made it clear they are going with what they had last year for the core. It's the right move

If you want to win now you keep your best players. You cull the rest. Just like poker. You don't gamble on lesser than types, and the most overrated of all ....draft picks.

If I trade Kat I want Giannis, Tatum, or like types. If it's not a 1st thru 3rd overall don't waist my time. Plus, plus, plus.

Sorry for the rant. I keep reading this bleep and it drives me nuts. I don't care what he makes they will find a way. Other teams do.

Cheers.

[SO_MONEY]

Come on guys....can't we stop this trade Kat talk? Especially for the dog meat you are suggesting in return. Especially draft picks!! These draft guys haven't played a minute with the big boys. Draft picks 85% are fools gold. Sure you might get a 'fitter" a decent guy that is complimentary or slightly better.

Kat is 29 and just into his prime. Kat is a 23-12-4 guy career. He's 53% fg, 40% from 3. 86% from the line career. How many guys can you say that about. Then you want to give him away for so little in my mind.

If you want to win now you keep your best players. You cull the rest. Just like poker. You don't gamble on lesser than types, and the most overrated of all ....draft picks.

If I trade Kat I want Giannis, Tatum, or like types. If it's not a 1st thru 3rd overall don't waist my time. Plus, plus, plus.

Sorry for the rant. I keep reading this bleep and it drives me nuts. I don't care what he makes they will find a way. Other teams do.

Cheers.

We definitely should trade KAT and I hope it is soon. You have to find a deal centered on a young semi-established player, a high upside prospect and picks. That should be the goal. It isn't about what he makes, it is about timing, his trade value and his deficiencies. A deal about money would be to get out of Rudy. Trading KAT is a means to build around ANT. And I am not convinced that trading KAT would make us much worse, if you are trading him for what you should.

[Nick K]

Come on guys....can't we stop this trade Kat talk? Especially for the dog meat you are suggesting in return. Especially draft picks!! These draft guys haven't played a minute with the big boys. Draft picks 85% are fools gold. Sure you might get a 'fitter" a decent guy that is complimentary or slightly better.

Kat is 29 and just into his prime. Kat is a 23-12-4 guy career. He's 53% fg, 40% from 3. 86% from the line career. How many guys can you say that about. Then you want to give him away for so little in my mind.

If you want to win now you keep your best players. You cull the rest. Just like poker. You don't gamble on lesser than types, and the most overrated of all ....draft picks.

If I trade Kat I want Giannis, Tatum, or like types. If it's not a 1st thru 3rd overall don't waist my time. Plus, plus, plus.

Sorry for the rant. I keep reading this bleep and it drives me nuts. I don't care what he makes they will find a way. Other teams do.

Cheers.

We definitely should trade KAT and I hope it is soon. You have to find a deal centered on a young semi-established player, a high upside prospect and picks. That should be the goal. It isn't about what he makes, it is about timing, his trade value and his deficiencies. A deal about money would be to get out of Rudy. Trading KAT is a means to build around ANT. And I am not convinced that trading KAT would make us much worse, if you are trading him for what you should.

You are entitled to your opinion but obviously you didn't read my post and why I said no. You are drugged on the ether of the rebuild. We've been doing that since 2005 and one failure after another. I am tired of rebuilding.

Kat and Ant are our best way to win now. You keep Kat, Ant, Conley, and McD. Rudy is the guy expendable....but not now. Next year we think about it. You build around that core.

The organization is going to play this out for at least one more year. So why talk about trading Towns? It ain't happening.

[KGdaBom]

Come on guys....can't we stop this trade Kat talk? Especially for the dog meat you are suggesting in return. Especially draft picks!! These draft guys haven't played a minute with the big boys. Draft picks 85% are fools gold. Sure you might get a 'fitter" a decent guy that is complimentary or slightly better.

Kat is 29 and just into his prime. Kat is a 23-12-4 guy career. He's 53% fg, 40% from 3. 86% from the line career. How many guys can you say that about. Then you want to give him away for so little in my mind.

If you want to win now you keep your best players. You cull the rest. Just like poker. You don't gamble on lesser than types, and the most overrated of all ....draft picks.

If I trade Kat I want Giannis, Tatum, or like types. If it's not a 1st thru 3rd overall don't waist my time. Plus, plus, plus.

Sorry for the rant. I keep reading this bleep and it drives me nuts. I don't care what he makes they will find a way. Other teams do.

Cheers.

We definitely should trade KAT and I hope it is soon. You have to find a deal centered on a young semi-established player, a high upside prospect and picks. That should be the goal. It isn't about what he makes, it is about timing, his trade value and his deficiencies. A deal about money would be to get out of Rudy. Trading KAT is a means to build around ANT. And I am not convinced that trading KAT would make us much worse, if you are trading him for what you should.

You are entitled to your opinion but obviously you didn't read my post and why I said no. You are drugged on the ether of the rebuild. We've been doing that since 2005 and one failure after another. I am tired of rebuilding.

Kat and Ant are our best way to win now. You keep Kat, Ant, Conley, and McD. Rudy is the guy expendable....but not now. Next year we think about it. You build around that core.

The organization is going to play this out for at least one more year. So why talk about trading Towns? It ain't happening.

I agree with you Nick about not trading KAT with one possible exception of a possibly realistic trade. IF IF IF Scoot Henderson is a legitimate can't miss star and we can get him, Simons and Nurkic from Portland I might do that one. So how much of a sure thing is Scoot? I don't know.

[SO_MONEY]

Come on guys....can't we stop this trade Kat talk? Especially for the dog meat you are suggesting in return. Especially draft picks!! These draft guys haven't played a minute with the big boys. Draft picks 85% are fools gold. Sure you might get a 'fitter" a decent guy that is complimentary or slightly better.

Kat is 29 and just into his prime. Kat is a 23-12-4 guy career. He's 53% fg, 40% from 3. 86% from the line career. How many guys can you say that about. Then you want to give him away for so little in my mind.

If you want to win now you keep your best players. You cull the rest. Just like poker. You don't gamble on lesser than types, and the most overrated of all ....draft picks.

If I trade Kat I want Giannis, Tatum, or like types. If it's not a 1st thru 3rd overall don't waist my time. Plus, plus, plus.

Sorry for the rant. I keep reading this bleep and it drives me nuts. I don't care what he makes they will find a way. Other teams do.

Cheers.

We definitely should trade KAT and I hope it is soon. You have to find a deal centered on a young semi-established player, a high upside prospect and picks. That should be the goal. It isn't about what he makes, it is about timing, his trade value and his deficiencies. A deal about money would be to get out of Rudy. Trading KAT is a means to build around ANT. And I am not convinced that trading KAT would make us much worse, if you are trading him for what you should.

You are entitled to your opinion but obviously you didn't read my post and why I said no. You are drugged on the ether of the rebuild. We've been doing that since 2005 and one failure after another. I am tired of rebuilding.

Kat and Ant are our best way to win now. You keep Kat, Ant, Conley, and McD. Rudy is the guy expendable....but not now. Next year we think about it. You build around that core.

The organization is going to play this out for at least one more year. So why talk about trading Towns? It ain't happening.

I addressed your concerns, I addressed it wouldn't be rebuilding... it would be retooling for the betterment of the team. This team doesn't work, when things don't work you have to adapt and you have to do it quickly on the fly. Digging in and trying to force something is a recipe for disaster. As I said I don't expect a massive dropoff from a trade, if I did I wouldn't be in favor of it. We have a young group of guys that frankly are held back by KAT and he doesn't fit the culture of guy who gives a $H!T as has been covered. The question is do we try and improve at the right time or hope for some unknown reason things change? I read you post and much of it is about nothing in my mind it was formulated around concerns that shouldn't exist, or the fear of change. It is all good have your opinion, I also think, based on the "mountains of evidence" i.e. this post you just might be the type of personality that disruptions to routines might cause some anguish, that isn't a slight, lots of people that have that in them, many I call friends, but it holds progress back because opportunities pass by.

[Norseman79]

I think the main division on trading towns is whether or not people view him as a superstar. I don't many others don't either but there are plenty that do. If he is in fact a superstar, you don't trade him unless you are getting an insane haul. If he's just a great player, you trade him for a good package. If you go the superstar route, you are not trading him for anything less than another star or a couple of very promising prospects and multiple first round picks. If he's just a great player, cut that in half.

As far as the wolves being competitive next year even by trading towns, it shouldn't take much coming back to be as good or better than last year. Assuming we are able to retain our own free agents. Fact is, we were basically 500 without towns. We played 500 basketball with a new point guard, a new center, and essentially a new power forward all while missing a star/great player. Now if you could change that player into two good players or better all while the rest of the team continues to gel and grow, how would we not be better? I completely get the argument that if towns is healthy for the entire year we are likely better than last year. However if we can trade towns for multiple good players that fit, we are also likely better than last year.

As the roster sits right now, this team needs guard help, perimeter help, and depth with not much cap space to address it all. We can definitely try to run it back and if everyone's healthy see what happens. But everyone needs to keep in mind, Conley injury who is our starting point guard? Rudy injury who is our starting center? As of right now, Edwards injury who is our starting two guard?

I will give you an example of a trade I don't like but one that seems to line up value-wise and creates a better roster. Let me repeat, I don't want to do this trade it's just one that explains value.

Timberwolves trade towns, Prince, and McClaughlin
Timberwolves get Murray, Collins and a couple picks

PG Murray, Conley
SG Edwards,
SF McDaniels, Minott
PF Collins, Anderson, Miller
C. Gobert

With about the same amount of cap space to try to sign Naz and NAW. Obviously Murray is expiring. I doubt they could resign him, but it creates cap space and allows for a potential sign and trade. I would also argue that is a better team than the one with towns would be.

So when I say I'm in favor of trading towns it isn't just a stockpile firsts and hope, it's to add a couple of pieces to the roster that make us better and adding a couple of pics. Towns is better than both Murray and Collins, but the wolves would be better with Murray and Collins then they are with towns. Looking at trades like this as we are giving up the best player is fair, but then you also have to look at the sum of the parts not just the parts themselves.

In an ideal world, we are able to resign our guys, town stays healthy all year and the wolves have a great playoff run, and his trade value is at an all-time high next year where they can make bank. Or maybe just unload Rudy who knows.