ImageImageImage

Identity crisis?

Moderators: Domejandro, Calinks, Worm Guts

BlacJacMac
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,870
And1: 3,549
Joined: Aug 25, 2020
       

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#121 » by BlacJacMac » Fri Jun 23, 2023 11:14 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:It is all work in progress, but here is our new direction:

+ Anderson - two way player, high IQ, versatile defender
+ Minott - high potential as defender, comboforward, high energy, high effort player
+ Moore - 3&D prospect
+ Gobert - DPOY
+ Garza - high potential as five-out scoring big, high energy, high effort player
+ NAW - high energy, high effort player, 3&D
+ Conley- two way player, high IQ, high effort player
+ Miller - high potential as defender, comboforward
+ Jaylen Clark - some say he is the best PoA defender of 2023 draft

Why aren't KAT and Edwards in this?


Looks like a list of players added to Ant + KAT (and Jaden). So basically a new direction around our stars.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 59,463
And1: 19,523
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#122 » by shrink » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:51 am

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:It is all work in progress, but here is our new direction:

+ Anderson - two way player, high IQ, versatile defender
+ Minott - high potential as defender, comboforward, high energy, high effort player
+ Moore - 3&D prospect
+ Gobert - DPOY
+ Garza - high potential as five-out scoring big, high energy, high effort player
+ NAW - high energy, high effort player, 3&D
+ Conley- two way player, high IQ, high effort player
+ Miller - high potential as defender, comboforward
+ Jaylen Clark - some say he is the best PoA defender of 2023 draft

Why aren't KAT and Edwards in this?

Connolly selections
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#123 » by minimus » Sat Jun 24, 2023 8:21 am

I have been preaching to get an elite PoA defender: Suggs, Caruso. It's still crazy to think that MIN got the best PoA defender of this draft with 53rd pick. If he pans out he will complete defensive transformation of this team:

- Gobert as drop big man, backbone of team defense, former DPOY
- MCD as the most versatile defender in NBA who can protect the rim and contain elite ballhandlers, DPOY candiate
- Edwards who has potential to be elite perimeter defender
- Clarke who has all tools to be DPOY, but lacks offense

We need more shooters to make it work, Tows, TP shooting will be crucial. But defensive foundation is real.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#124 » by minimus » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:05 pm



So a year ago Towns was considered an elite offensive big, #2 behind Jokic.

- he was an efficient scorer. He was elite at making open threes - 44.8%
- he was a balanced scorer. He attacked closeouts and was dangerous slasher who could finish at rim - 67% of his shots
- his passing was improving

What we was hoping before last season:

- Gobert will be an efficient rim runner big who will attack opponent stretched defense from dunk spot and in pick-n-roll situations
- Towns will be able to feed Gobert with short roll passing
- Towns and Gobert will form a highly efficient offensive duo
- Gobert will resolve our rebounding issues
- Towns wont be killed in defense against heavy off ball movement, screen based offense
- Gobert and Towns will be able to run back in transition defense

But a series of injuries and DLo trade lead to some unpredictable results:

- Anderson has emerged as the best MIN half court playmaker
- DLo was effective as off ball scorer
- Edwards has elevated his defensive game
- MCD has emerged as candidate for 2nd, 3rd star in offense
- Reid has emerged as our best and most consistent scorer from the bench
- Reid has emerged as our best matchup against small ball teams
- Nowell has failed as lead bench scorer in a brutal way
- Edwards can not play two man game with Gobert
- Conley is by far the best PG we had in last 10 (???) years

Here are some things that we hope before start of next season in case we "run it back":

- all players will be healthy and in a good shape
- Reid, NAW will be resigned
- Anderson and TP will return
- MCD, Edwards, Moore, Minott will improve
- Edwards will learn how to play two man game with Gobert
- Towns will return at his star level
- our half court defense will improve and will be top5
- our transition defense will improve at least to league average
- our offense will improve at least to league average
- no chemistry issues will arise

MIN will gamble on themselves, they also will gamble against time, I remember that two years ago we started season with Pat Bev, Vando being elite in defense and average in offense, but after Jan. 1, we were #1 offense in NBA. Finch said that they did not care enough about offense in offseason. This group of player clearly needs to spend some time together, I am glad that Edwards, Gobert, Towns, Moore, Minott, MCD, Reid are working now in MIN during offseason.
TimberKat
Head Coach
Posts: 6,102
And1: 3,071
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#125 » by TimberKat » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:43 pm

Between Moore, Minnott, Clark, Miller, and Garza; we need two of them to turn into solid backup players. I would be happy if one becomes a starter. Who has the best chances?
Note30
Head Coach
Posts: 6,201
And1: 1,912
Joined: Feb 25, 2014
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#126 » by Note30 » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:41 pm

TimberKat wrote:Between Moore, Minnott, Clark, Miller, and Garza; we need two of them to turn into solid backup players. I would be happy if one becomes a starter. Who has the best chances?


Clark, Miller, Garza they have the best chances statistically.
User avatar
m2002brian
Analyst
Posts: 3,330
And1: 1,380
Joined: May 29, 2009
     

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#127 » by m2002brian » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:50 pm

Note30 wrote:
TimberKat wrote:Between Moore, Minnott, Clark, Miller, and Garza; we need two of them to turn into solid backup players. I would be happy if one becomes a starter. Who has the best chances?


Clark, Miller, Garza they have the best chances statistically.



Miller looks good. Decent hands, moves well, cuts well, decent vision for his size.
He’s like a Vando with better hands and better passing hopefully. Shot is a little stiff but proves effective.

Clark is high basketball IQ. Love the pick. Not as athletic but his smarts will help a lot to be in the right place. If he can develop a shot to any degree of NBA quality, he’ll be a good rotation guy at some point.
BLUEGREENRED
Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 32,042
And1: 6,061
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#128 » by Devilzsidewalk » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:17 pm

minimus wrote:

So a year ago Towns was considered an elite offensive big, #2 behind Jokic.

- he was an efficient scorer. He was elite at making open threes - 44.8%
- he was a balanced scorer. He attacked closeouts and was dangerous slasher who could finish at rim - 67% of his shots
- his passing was improving



Stuff like this had had me second-guessing a KAT trade more and more the past week or so. Not because I'm much more optimistic about the Gobert/KAT pairing, I'm just wondering if I'm getting into a grass-is-greener mindset about getting better athleticism/BBIQ/defense at he 4, and overlooking the potential difficulties in replacing his offensive abilities.

I started looking at the draft and realizing ever year now, 1/3 of the friggin draft is athletic guys with good length and great defensive upside...and a completely broken jump-shot. If you're looking for a 6'8" with great athleticism, seems like you can find multiples of that guy every year. But if you want a shooter, you gotta reach for role player's with the #11 overall pick - taking a guy that seems to have surprised a lot of Michigan fans because they don't even think he's that good.

And I'm wondering if I've let Finch off the hook too much and/or downplayed the significance of all the time missed last season. Because with KAT, what's his superpower: if you pick a spot between, lets say 0 and 28 feet from the rim and throw him the ball, he can shoot the ball and make the shot at one of the highest percentages in NBA history. Oh, so you mean like of all centers, he's one of the very best at.....no, we mean of ALL players in NBA history at any position, his ability to shoot a jump shot and make said jump shot is in the 99th percentile of all players of the last 75 years. Secondarily, he's a 7 foot guy and if you put another 7 foot guy in front of him, he's pretty fast and can zoom by him for a layup.

The flies in the ointment: 1) sloppy decision-maker at times 2) if you defend him with a smaller/faster guy, his ability to get off a jump shot diminishes. 3) very foul-prone on defense.

The question becomes: is he just a lost-cause when it comes to decision-making, committing fouls, and creating better shot opportunities, and are those negatives too severe to a point where they overshadow his offensive contributions? Last season - especially during the playoffs - I felt like the answer was 100% yes. But now I'm wondering if maybe we can coach are way out of that a little bit. You're 7 foot and have a small forward on you? Get off the perimeter and find a way to dive to the front of the rim. Or we have the best downhill guard in the world - drive and kick and force help. Now Rudy's man is falling off to help? Great, he's got a 9'9" standing reach and 75% of his points come from dunks - go stand by the rim for an alley.

I dunno, I think I might be beginning to believe. Not unlike Neo. Draymond is Agent Smith.
Image
KGdaBom
RealGM
Posts: 23,332
And1: 6,368
Joined: Jun 22, 2017
         

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#129 » by KGdaBom » Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:45 pm

KAT is a great player. Let's just do something brilliant and keep him. Given health, Rudy, Kat, McD, Ant and Conley IMO could win it all.
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#130 » by minimus » Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:27 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
minimus wrote:

So a year ago Towns was considered an elite offensive big, #2 behind Jokic.

- he was an efficient scorer. He was elite at making open threes - 44.8%
- he was a balanced scorer. He attacked closeouts and was dangerous slasher who could finish at rim - 67% of his shots
- his passing was improving



Stuff like this had had me second-guessing a KAT trade more and more the past week or so. Not because I'm much more optimistic about the Gobert/KAT pairing, I'm just wondering if I'm getting into a grass-is-greener mindset about getting better athleticism/BBIQ/defense at he 4, and overlooking the potential difficulties in replacing his offensive abilities.

I started looking at the draft and realizing ever year now, 1/3 of the friggin draft is athletic guys with good length and great defensive upside...and a completely broken jump-shot. If you're looking for a 6'8" with great athleticism, seems like you can find multiples of that guy every year. But if you want a shooter, you gotta reach for role player's with the #11 overall pick - taking a guy that seems to have surprised a lot of Michigan fans because they don't even think he's that good.

And I'm wondering if I've let Finch off the hook too much and/or downplayed the significance of all the time missed last season. Because with KAT, what's his superpower: if you pick a spot between, lets say 0 and 28 feet from the rim and throw him the ball, he can shoot the ball and make the shot at one of the highest percentages in NBA history. Oh, so you mean like of all centers, he's one of the very best at.....no, we mean of ALL players in NBA history at any position, his ability to shoot a jump shot and make said jump shot is in the 99th percentile of all players of the last 75 years. Secondarily, he's a 7 foot guy and if you put another 7 foot guy in front of him, he's pretty fast and can zoom by him for a layup.

The flies in the ointment: 1) sloppy decision-maker at times 2) if you defend him with a smaller/faster guy, his ability to get off a jump shot diminishes. 3) very foul-prone on defense.

The question becomes: is he just a lost-cause when it comes to decision-making, committing fouls, and creating better shot opportunities, and are those negatives too severe to a point where they overshadow his offensive contributions? Last season - especially during the playoffs - I felt like the answer was 100% yes. But now I'm wondering if maybe we can coach are way out of that a little bit. You're 7 foot and have a small forward on you? Get off the perimeter and find a way to dive to the front of the rim. Or we have the best downhill guard in the world - drive and kick and force help. Now Rudy's man is falling off to help? Great, he's got a 9'9" standing reach and 75% of his points come from dunks - go stand by the rim for an alley.

I dunno, I think I might be beginning to believe. Not unlike Neo. Draymond is Agent Smith.


Yes, this something I have been thinking about recently.

1) the key to unlock Towns is his decision making. He won't significantly improve athletically, maybe he will improve stamina but not his vertical or body control. Passing and decision making are keys because now he is not only balancing his offensive game, he also plays as offensive hub between frontcourt and backcourt. He is not Jokic but at the beginning of last year even with all negative factors he was willing to cooperate with Rudy. Also Towns can learn a lot from Conley and Anderson. But even if Towns can just regain his shooting form AND make right read when to shoot when to pass it will be a huge improvement for MIN offense

2) a few things that I noticed during draft: first is Jaime Jaquez at 19th. MIA went to Finals with undersized frontcourt with Butler as PF, they beat EVERY possible combination of bigs in the East: MIL, NYK, BOS. And then they selected Jaime Jaquez an undersized combo forward with elite midrange game and 39" vertical. But more interesting I found that rumors that GSW was targeting Jaime Jaquez as well!!! Another undersized wanted him!!! Does it mean that size doesn't matter? No! Another interesting fact that in first round was selected only one player under 6'3". So size does matter but it is more distributed now between position, between functions. Let me explain, ballhandling is basketball function, role and right now there is more size that operate with this function, we see 7-footers Jokic, Giannis operating with the ball. That what I call functional size. Same situation with shooting, passing, rebounding functions. I think that's why the job of coaching staff is even more creative, more demanding, more urgent. GSW and MIA see Jaime Jaquez as player who coach can use within team offensive and defensive scheme. They see value of player with such archetype WITHIN their systems. I hope MIN organization has similar high level vision and all supporting processes that implement such vision. Stilistically I would prefer a dynamic, versatile defender at PF next to Gobert, because it might be easier to make everything work when there is more room for mistakes and creativity. With Gobert and Towns players must be very attentive to details. One reason why we can still be effective with Gobert-Towns duo is extremely high level of defensive potential of MCD-Edwards duo. But Anderson as starting PF experiment has shown that we can win with comboforward with MLE type of contract if he fits archetype. I would prefer a combofo who can defend in space and switch on perimeter

3) there is a reason why Leonard Miller has fallen into second round and guys such as Jaime Jaquez and Brandon Podziemski were drafted in first round. It might be that this draft decisions were impacted by radical thinking where an athletic combo forward without consistent jumpshot is not highly valued. Meanwhile, shooting, positional size were more important.

NBA is like delayed chess game. In off-season FOs and will try to learn and respond to everything they saw in regular season and playoffs. I am still asking myself what MIA run means for MIN prospects, what our series vs DEN has proven in twin towers schema etc.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,419
And1: 875
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#131 » by Norseman79 » Sat Jun 24, 2023 6:54 pm

Perhaps the issue is simply that towns should not be playing the 4?

Realistically, the best thing he could do is go sit in the corner and wait for the ball to be kicked out to him and to shoot if open to pass if not. I don't think, and it did look a little better this year, that his ego will allow him to do that. I think he feels like he has to be " the man". That is Edwards now. When Edwards is off the floor, I'm still not sure I want towns trying to do all this dribbling and creating stuff.

It seems like a waste to have him playing at power Forward, on a supermax, being put in a place where essentially we want a three and D forward. Where he should be playing is at the five because he maximizes his value there. Even still, I'm just not sure it's worth a supermax. Not with the way we currently play. Or the way the roster is currently built.

This doesn't even begin to touch any defensive or rebounding issues as well
TimberKat
Head Coach
Posts: 6,102
And1: 3,071
Joined: Jul 02, 2022
         

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#132 » by TimberKat » Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:05 am

Norseman79 wrote:Perhaps the issue is simply that towns should not be playing the 4?

Realistically, the best thing he could do is go sit in the corner and wait for the ball to be kicked out to him and to shoot if open to pass if not. I don't think, and it did look a little better this year, that his ego will allow him to do that. I think he feels like he has to be " the man". That is Edwards now. When Edwards is off the floor, I'm still not sure I want towns trying to do all this dribbling and creating stuff.

It seems like a waste to have him playing at power Forward, on a supermax, being put in a place where essentially we want a three and D forward. Where he should be playing is at the five because he maximizes his value there. Even still, I'm just not sure it's worth a supermax. Not with the way we currently play. Or the way the roster is currently built.

This doesn't even begin to touch any defensive or rebounding issues as well

Why park him in the corner on offense? He still draws double teams. He can post up smaller player. He can drive by slower centers. He can drive over smaller players. As Flip said before, your position is defined by who you can guard on defense. On offense, position doesn't matter. Towns has some issues with smaller guy on him even last year when Gobert isn't here. Just something he needs to adjust.
wolves_89
General Manager
Posts: 8,143
And1: 4,630
Joined: Jul 10, 2012
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#133 » by wolves_89 » Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:09 am

minimus wrote:It is all work in progress, but here is our new direction:

+ Anderson - two way player, high IQ, versatile defender
+ Minott - high potential as defender, comboforward, high energy, high effort player
+ Moore - 3&D prospect
+ Gobert - DPOY
+ Garza - high potential as five-out scoring big, high energy, high effort player
+ NAW - high energy, high effort player, 3&D
+ Conley- two way player, high IQ, high effort player
+ Miller - high potential as defender, comboforward
+ Jaylen Clark - some say he is the best PoA defender of 2023 draft


It's getting pretty clear what Connelly values. Every guy that he's acquired (other than Garza on a 2-way) is already a plus defender or has the potential to be one.
Norseman79
Starter
Posts: 2,419
And1: 875
Joined: Jul 26, 2017
     

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#134 » by Norseman79 » Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:18 am

TimberKat wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:Perhaps the issue is simply that towns should not be playing the 4?

Realistically, the best thing he could do is go sit in the corner and wait for the ball to be kicked out to him and to shoot if open to pass if not. I don't think, and it did look a little better this year, that his ego will allow him to do that. I think he feels like he has to be " the man". That is Edwards now. When Edwards is off the floor, I'm still not sure I want towns trying to do all this dribbling and creating stuff.

It seems like a waste to have him playing at power Forward, on a supermax, being put in a place where essentially we want a three and D forward. Where he should be playing is at the five because he maximizes his value there. Even still, I'm just not sure it's worth a supermax. Not with the way we currently play. Or the way the roster is currently built.

This doesn't even begin to touch any defensive or rebounding issues as well

Why park him in the corner on offense? He still draws double teams. He can post up smaller player. He can drive by slower centers. He can drive over smaller players. As Flip said before, your position is defined by who you can guard on defense. On offense, position doesn't matter. Towns has some issues with smaller guy on him even last year when Gobert isn't here. Just something he needs to adjust.


Because he's had what 7 years to adjust to it and still hasn't? I have watched him get dominated by smaller players when he tries to post them up. I have watched him travel or flail horrifically as he tries to drive and draw falls against players bigger than him. I'm not saying the man doesn't have skills, he does he's incredibly gifted. I'm saying is awareness isn't there
User avatar
urinesane
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,012
And1: 2,887
Joined: May 10, 2010
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#135 » by urinesane » Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:22 am

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
minimus wrote:

So a year ago Towns was considered an elite offensive big, #2 behind Jokic.

- he was an efficient scorer. He was elite at making open threes - 44.8%
- he was a balanced scorer. He attacked closeouts and was dangerous slasher who could finish at rim - 67% of his shots
- his passing was improving



Stuff like this had had me second-guessing a KAT trade more and more the past week or so. Not because I'm much more optimistic about the Gobert/KAT pairing, I'm just wondering if I'm getting into a grass-is-greener mindset about getting better athleticism/BBIQ/defense at he 4, and overlooking the potential difficulties in replacing his offensive abilities.

I started looking at the draft and realizing ever year now, 1/3 of the friggin draft is athletic guys with good length and great defensive upside...and a completely broken jump-shot. If you're looking for a 6'8" with great athleticism, seems like you can find multiples of that guy every year. But if you want a shooter, you gotta reach for role player's with the #11 overall pick - taking a guy that seems to have surprised a lot of Michigan fans because they don't even think he's that good.

And I'm wondering if I've let Finch off the hook too much and/or downplayed the significance of all the time missed last season. Because with KAT, what's his superpower: if you pick a spot between, lets say 0 and 28 feet from the rim and throw him the ball, he can shoot the ball and make the shot at one of the highest percentages in NBA history. Oh, so you mean like of all centers, he's one of the very best at.....no, we mean of ALL players in NBA history at any position, his ability to shoot a jump shot and make said jump shot is in the 99th percentile of all players of the last 75 years. Secondarily, he's a 7 foot guy and if you put another 7 foot guy in front of him, he's pretty fast and can zoom by him for a layup.

The flies in the ointment: 1) sloppy decision-maker at times 2) if you defend him with a smaller/faster guy, his ability to get off a jump shot diminishes. 3) very foul-prone on defense.

The question becomes: is he just a lost-cause when it comes to decision-making, committing fouls, and creating better shot opportunities, and are those negatives too severe to a point where they overshadow his offensive contributions? Last season - especially during the playoffs - I felt like the answer was 100% yes. But now I'm wondering if maybe we can coach are way out of that a little bit. You're 7 foot and have a small forward on you? Get off the perimeter and find a way to dive to the front of the rim. Or we have the best downhill guard in the world - drive and kick and force help. Now Rudy's man is falling off to help? Great, he's got a 9'9" standing reach and 75% of his points come from dunks - go stand by the rim for an alley.

I dunno, I think I might be beginning to believe. Not unlike Neo. Draymond is Agent Smith.


Image
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#136 » by minimus » Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:25 am

Okay now after Naz extension I put some thoughts:

I also wonder whether this high/multiple effort level in defense is sustainable.

My theory of third matchup is closer to be reality with this roster. In a nutshell our roster might represent matchup problems for opponents because we have three guys who can take advantage of matchup:

1st mathcup is Ant: big, strong, athletic
2nd mathcup is Towns: too big for forwards, too quick for С
3rd mathcup is MCD: emerging as a guy on whom you cant hide your worst defender. Look how Dame, Trae Young were exposed

4th mathcup is Reid as 6th man, scorer from the bench

Usually teams are prepared for one, two matchups, they use different schemes to stop best opponent players. Let say they play high wall against us, leaving one best defender to slow down PoA and one good defender to roam. Imagine MCD sitting in corner and either cutting or shooting open threes being 6'10" who makes 40% threes.

Or imagine opponent playing a backup big who should defend on perimeter against mobile Reid. One thing that was interesting for me is that we could not do anything against DEN bench, because no matchup was there from our side.

We need NAW hustle badly. I think about all lost games when our backcourt was letargic against bad team. How many "easy games" we lost? At least four: HOU, DET, POR, SAS

If we re-sign NAW then Anderson might be our best option as backup PG. We dont have much room for any FA PG, unless we trade or waive TP
Read on Twitter


We have logjam at PF, so playing Anderson as backup PG might be a workaround.

As I wrote before many times, I think we should find a big shooter, which is a trend in current NBA. We should keep TP, or find a replacement. Yuta Watanabe might be a perfect guy if he can signed for 3-4mil per year. In my ideal scenario we trade TP for backup PG let say Delon Wright, sign Watanabe for 3-4 mli, 10-15 minutes behind MCD and give more playing time to Minott/Moore/NAW

Gobert/Reid/Anderson
Towns/Anderson/Minott + Milller (gleague)
MCD/Moore/Watanabe
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Wright/NAW

What I like about this roster:

Opponent will have hard time to hide any their defenseless star: undersized guards will be punished. Ant can score in the post, like he did against Jamal Murray

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


MCD will shoot over you or score at rim

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Towns and Reid will drive against slow bigs, shoot over defense:





MIN wont have multiple bad defenders in rotation. the only weak defenders in rotation will be Reid and Towns. All others are from above average to elite defender with a lot of size and defensive talent.
Devilzsidewalk
RealGM
Posts: 32,042
And1: 6,061
Joined: Oct 09, 2005

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#137 » by Devilzsidewalk » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:57 pm

minimus wrote:


that's one more thing that makes me a little intrigued about returning the same team - go to 1:25 of that video. When Conley came in, a lot of the talk was about unlocking Rudy in the PnR. But he can do the same for KAT. DLo had brief moments of high-level PnR play, but mostly he seemed a little to measured and slow to react. Conley on the other hand is the best of the best in that area. KAT's not an above the rim threat much, but passes out in front like that are right up his alley where he can catch and shoot, or catch on the run and fly to the rim.
Image
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#138 » by minimus » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:21 pm

Make Anderson our backup PG, you cowards! Be bold!
minimus
RealGM
Posts: 13,751
And1: 5,240
Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Location: Germany, Stuttgart area
 

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#139 » by minimus » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:28 am

After MIN have declined to pick up TP contract. I was wondering if I am missing something in Connelly vision. Iit makes me wonder if who Connelly assembled DEN around shooting and passing, just waived TP who hit 38.1% of threes and who is deadly from corners. It just does no make sense. But then I searched for more context. First, I guess TP is not 3&D we need, BUT he is an elite spot-up shooter. He is active in defense, his foul rate suggests that he is struggling as defender, both as PoA defender and as low man in high wall:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/fouls-personal?rate=per-minute

Second, in addition to unneccessary fouls, he makes too many unneccessary turnovers. This combination of weaknesses is not something that I want to see from veteran.

Third, in addition to fouls and turnovers TP has had bad luck with injuries, missing 13 games in 2021-22 and 28 games in 2022-23. In other words he often was not available despite not playing many minutes

To sum up: losing TP means losing his elite shooting. At some degree we can compare this situation with DLo trade, who at the moment of trade was scoring at very high level. But Conley and NAW were both better fit AND this elevated their game. For instance, look at Conley shooting from right corner. This is partially Gobert rim running effect:

Read on Twitter


Also losing TP might be a good opportunity to improve overall decision making and defense, by adding players who are better decision makers and defenders. And I am really happy to see that this my feeling is something that some of us have as well. I hope TC is working in the same direction: please no more undersized scorers, no bad defenders.

younggunsmn wrote:I'd be very very happy if NAW could become our own version of Bruce Brown.
Defend, rebound, hit open shots and score/push in transition.

When Connelly was talking about the culture/kind of players he wanted in the draft pick presser, NAW really fits this with his max effort and work ethic.


Devilzsidewalk wrote:After a couple drafts, NAW, and the trade and FA target rumors, we can formulate a really good picture of what kind of traits TC wants - a guard with enough size for some matchup versatility on defense, and as much pop on offense as we can get. They apparently aren't overly confident in NAW's offense, so we're hearing a lot of names of guys with more consistent offensive resumes, while not sacrificing that defensive profile. We can probably forget about guys like Tre Jones and Schroder for the time being.


So what it is my idea of MIN next steps in off-season?

First, add a big shooter via FA market. I dont see a better candidate as Yuta Watanabe, already an elite corner 3PT shooter. This unlocks so many things for us if we just can put such big shooter on the floor. Will 15mil for 3yrs be enough?

Read on Twitter


Second, re-sign NAW.

Third, find two guys who has potential as shooters with solid effort in D. Guys like Caleb Martin, Strus, Vincent a year ago.

Gobet/Reid/Anderson
Towns/Anderson + Miller
MCD/Watanabe/Minott
Edwards/Moore/???
Conley/NAW/Anderson

Here a few things I want to see:

First, more shooting from Towns to replace TP. Sounds like a broken record, but in order to impact the game with this roster Towns must come back to his 2019-20 shooting efficiency and volume: 26ppg, 41.2% from 3PT on 8 attempts. I think even with Towns 53 games we had good ball movement.

Read on Twitter


I think having big shooters such as Towns, MCD, Watanabe will help our offense a lot.

Second, more scoring from MCD. In four games without Edwards MCD averaged 21.5ppg, on 48-52-90 shooting.

Third, make Anderson our backup PG with NAW defending opponent best PoA.

These three steps is about playing really big. But this time I hope for more organic, fluent offense and defense.
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,554
And1: 22,926
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: Identity crisis? 

Post#140 » by Klomp » Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:49 pm

minimus wrote:After MIN have declined to pick up TP contract. I was wondering if I am missing something in Connelly vision. Iit makes me wonder if who Connelly assembled DEN around shooting and passing, just waived TP who hit 38.1% of threes and who is deadly from corners. It just does no make sense.


I know you basically answered yourself, but I think it’s about bringing in your own guys and putting your own fingerprint on the roster more than Prince doing anything wrong or Connelly not liking him.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves