FIBA World Cup 2023 (FIRST thread)

[JB2]

Huge bomb, Banchero decided he will represent USA! Good bye Azzurri hopes, huge disappointment for the Italians, obviously not only for this year, but next 10+ years coming.

Speak for yourself, I always considered players picking and choosing national teams based on opportunity rather than genuine sense of national belonging to be a disgraceful breach of the very concept of national team.
Banchero might have an italian parent but he speaks no italian nor has never lived in Italy. I'd have picked present day Kobe over him.
He shouldn't even have had the ability to choose as far as I'm concerned.

That underlined comment should make you feel trashy.

[mcmurphy]

Huge bomb, Banchero decided he will represent USA! Good bye Azzurri hopes, huge disappointment for the Italians, obviously not only for this year, but next 10+ years coming.

The way he marketed himself as Italian and promised he was going to play for Italy all this time is really embarrassing.

As an Italian, I don't mind him choosing the USA, that's where he's born and raised. What I really despise is his cultural appropriation and his use of Italian flag (it's still on his Instagram profile right now) when he hasn't even been to Italy in his life and he doesn't speak a word of Italian.

And with his false promises and betrayal he's made sure he's never going to be liked by Italian fans.

as italian I agree with you at 100%

[Aeternus]

That underlined comment should make you feel trashy.

I refuse to feel trashy when talking about dead people. They deserve no more respect than they did while living regardless of how tragic their death was.
Goes double in this circumstance as mentioning Kobe fits perfectly, given that he was very well known for waxing poetic about his love for Italy and speaking italian to italian journos.

[Nate505]

Kostas Sloukas and Domantas Sabonis skipping the tournament just means both Greece and Lithuania got stronger.

An All NBA 2nd Teamer missing the tournament somehow means their team is stronger. And this I'm guessing is somehow an indication that the World Cup means more than the Olympics, when you have all NBA team players from other countries not playing it.

Makes perfect sense.

I wouldn't go so far to say they got stronger, but from what I have seen Valanciunas is the far better player for their national team. It's funny sometimes with the FIBA tournaments.

Fair enough, but if this tournament is supposedly more prestigious than the Olympics, why are prominent players for national teams (and not just the US) missing out on it?

Or to put it another way, if Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics in 2024, will Sabonis skip out on that one too, or would he try to be a part of the roster?

[Mirotic12]

Speak for yourself, I always considered players picking and choosing national teams based on opportunity rather than genuine sense of national belonging to be a disgraceful breach of the very concept of national team.
Banchero might have an italian parent but he speaks no italian nor has never lived in Italy. I'd have picked present day Kobe over him.
He shouldn't even have had the ability to choose as far as I'm concerned.

Kobe was an Italian basketball product and he spoke Italian......so

Fair enough, but if this tournament is supposedly more prestigious than the Olympics, why are prominent players for national teams (and not just the US) missing out on it?

Or to put it another way, if Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics in 2024, will Sabonis skip out on that one too, or would he try to be a part of the roster?

Are you actually arguing that no "prominent player" has ever skipped the Olympics? Really? Is that actually what you are claiming?

[Clay Davis]

That underlined comment should make you feel trashy.

I refuse to feel trashy when talking about dead people. They deserve no more respect than they did while living regardless of how tragic their death was.

Death touches everyone. Once we're gone, we only have what we've left to those still alive. For many, to leave a positive mark is the sign of a life well lived, and to respect a person past their death is to respect the life that they have lived. Interesting that you disagree.

[Mickey8]

Huge bomb, Banchero decided he will represent USA! Good bye Azzurri hopes, huge disappointment for the Italians, obviously not only for this year, but next 10+ years coming.

The way he marketed himself as Italian and promised he was going to play for Italy all this time is really embarrassing.

As an Italian, I don't mind him choosing the USA, that's where he's born and raised. What I really despise is his cultural appropriation and his use of Italian flag (it's still on his Instagram profile right now) when he hasn't even been to Italy in his life and he doesn't speak a word of Italian.

And with his false promises and betrayal he's made sure he's never going to be liked by Italian fans.

as italian I agree with you at 100%

But you were fine with Gregor F.u.c.k.a (its funny the site is censoring his last name ), representing Italy in the 90's ???? I don't have the problem with Banchero representing Italy, he has Italian blood and if its his wish to play for the Italy or the wish of his parents, that's completely fine . I have the issue with the players such as aforementioned F.u.c.k.a ,Ibaka,Mirotic etc. and the naturalized American players who are playing for the bunch of different NT's and they don't have any connection to those countries besides being naturalized and paid for their services.

[Aeternus]

to respect a person past their death is to respect the life that they have lived. Interesting that you disagree.

Well the point is, if I saw fit to award them x amount of respect in life, what exactly did they do in death to warrant more?
It's not so much that I'm against showing respect to the dead, it's that I am just treating them like I did before they died.
Would it have been disrespectful to living 45yo Kobe if I said I'd rather have him than Banchero? Why would it be less respectful to say the same about him post-death?

[durden_tyler]

Insurance and some probably wayyy better on what the Americans have offered. These duals, i hope one day we get a real Alpha and just ditch their stronger national team for the weaker one just to prove they can lead a team of their own and challenge USA.

But to an extent, this is like free agency and you have to choose between the Hornets… and Lakers. Who in their right mind will choose the Hornets?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The way he marketed himself as Italian and promised he was going to play for Italy all this time is really embarrassing.

As an Italian, I don't mind him choosing the USA, that's where he's born and raised. What I really despise is his cultural appropriation and his use of Italian flag (it's still on his Instagram profile right now) when he hasn't even been to Italy in his life and he doesn't speak a word of Italian.

And with his false promises and betrayal he's made sure he's never going to be liked by Italian fans.

as italian I agree with you at 100%

But you were fine with Gregor F.u.c.k.a (its funny the site is censoring his last name ), representing Italy in the 90's ???? I don't have the problem with Banchero representing Italy, he has Italian blood and if its his wish to play for the Italy or the wish of his parents, that's completely fine . I have the issue with the players such as aforementioned F.u.c.k.a ,Ibaka,Mirotic etc. and the naturalized American players who are playing for the bunch of different NT's and they don't have any connection to those countries besides being naturalized and paid for their services.

Fuchka played in Italy since his youth and he was actually speaking Italian.

[gottamakeit]

to respect a person past their death is to respect the life that they have lived. Interesting that you disagree.

Well the point is, if I saw fit to award them x amount of respect in life, what exactly did they do in death to warrant more?
It's not so much that I'm against showing respect to the dead, it's that I am just treating them like I did before they died.
Would it have been disrespectful to living 45yo Kobe if I said I'd rather have him than Banchero? Why would it be less respectful to say the same about him post-death?

I agree 1000%
IMO, its unhealthy to constantly revere dead people just because of their tragic deaths.

In my case, I never worshiped Kobe as a baller when he was alive, no need for me to change my perspective now that he's gone.

I think culture informs how we think of the dead. There is no wrong or right way to think about it.

[-Luke-]

An All NBA 2nd Teamer missing the tournament somehow means their team is stronger. And this I'm guessing is somehow an indication that the World Cup means more than the Olympics, when you have all NBA team players from other countries not playing it.

Makes perfect sense.

I wouldn't go so far to say they got stronger, but from what I have seen Valanciunas is the far better player for their national team. It's funny sometimes with the FIBA tournaments.

Fair enough, but if this tournament is supposedly more prestigious than the Olympics, why are prominent players for national teams (and not just the US) missing out on it?

Or to put it another way, if Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics in 2024, will Sabonis skip out on that one too, or would he try to be a part of the roster?

I can't speak for Sabonis, but I think it's different depending on the country and the sport. From my outside view the Olympics are way more important in the US and have a little less value in many European countries (which doesn't mean they are not important). In sports like football (soccer) the Olympics doesn't matter at all and that may jump over to other team sports. For me the Olympics are more for individual sports like track and field, swimming, etc. and I watch basketball, but hardly ever any other team sports.

I myself wouldn't call the World Cup more prestigious than the Olympics. I think an Olympic gold medal is at the very top. And a guy like Dirk said that qualifying for the 2008 Olympics was the second greatest accomplishment in his career, over everything else but the 2011 title. But I understand the argument that the competition is better at the World Cup. Heck, I would say that the competition at the Eurobasket is more intense than both at the Olympics and the World Cup (which doesn't mean it's more prestigious). But my home country Germany played against France, Lithuania and Slovenia in the group phase of the Eurobasket last summer. And Bosnia as a fifth team and they aren't a walkover by any means and can beat you. Then Montenegro in the last 16, Greece in the quarterfinal and Spain in the semifinal. That's very intense competition whereas at the World Cup or Olympics there are teams that wouldn't qualify for a Eurobasket if they played in Europe.

[UcanUwill]

An All NBA 2nd Teamer missing the tournament somehow means their team is stronger. And this I'm guessing is somehow an indication that the World Cup means more than the Olympics, when you have all NBA team players from other countries not playing it.

Makes perfect sense.

I wouldn't go so far to say they got stronger, but from what I have seen Valanciunas is the far better player for their national team. It's funny sometimes with the FIBA tournaments.

Fair enough, but if this tournament is supposedly more prestigious than the Olympics, why are prominent players for national teams (and not just the US) missing out on it?

Or to put it another way, if Lithuania qualifies for the Olympics in 2024, will Sabonis skip out on that one too, or would he try to be a part of the roster?

We already talked about it, do not listen to some fanboys, I am FIBA fanboy too, but I can admit FIBA itself has no prestige, FIBA and prestigious doesnt even belong in same sentence sadly, I mean, some of us Euros, care about it very very much, but it is background sport. FIBA Olympics is far far more prestigious than FIBA World Cup, FIBA can try convince everyone otherwise, but thats just not how it is. I dont even know what Mirotic12 was crying about, I am shocked anyone could even argue this topic, Olympics are far more prestigious.

World cup has over 30 teams, Olympics only 12, so maybe fans of teams that has no real chance at Olympics, but only at world cup, can try convince themselves they are in more prestigious tournament, but it is just a lie. Happened exactly what I said, I said Americans arent the only ones who usually send a B squads to WC, its WC, we in Lithuania the whole year knew we will have huge roster loses because its WC, and here we are, SAbonis is not playing, seem like Grigonis, Giedraitis and Echodas already declined.

Just compare roster of teams that usually qualify in both tournaments and you will have an answer which tournament players care about and which not. End of story.

[UcanUwill]

Brazil roster is kind off a complete trash, or am I being too harsh? They lucked out with group G, that only has Spain, but even then, if they somehow lose to Iran or Ivory coast, I am not even sure that would be shocking that much.

Spoiler:

Marcelinho Huertas - Lenovo Tenerife (Spain)
Yago Mateus - ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
Caio Pacheco - Capitanes de Ciudad de México (G-League)
Elio Corazza Neto - São Paulo Futebol Clube (Brazil)
Alexey Borges - 123 Minas (Brazil)
Raul Neto - Cleveland Cavaliers (USA)
George de Paula - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Vitor Benite - Gran Canaria (Spain)
Guilherme Deodato - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Didi Louzada - Cleveland Charge (USA)
Reynan Camilo - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Guilherme Santos - Santa Cruz Warriors (USA)
Leonardo Meindl - U-BT Cluj-Napoca (Romania)
Rafael Munford - Esporte Clube Pinheiros (Brazil)
Samis Calderón - NBA Academy (Mexico)
Gabriel Jaú - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Renan Lenz - 123 Minas (Brazil)
Lucas Dias - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Bruno Caboclo - ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
Márcio Santos - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Lucas Mariano - Franca Basquete (Brazil)
Felipe dos Anjos - MoraBanc Andorra (Spain)
Rafael Hettsheimeir - Clube de Regatas do Flamengo (Brazil)
Tim Soares - Mets de Guaynabo (Puerto Rico)
Cristiano Felício - Coviran Granada (Spain)

[mcmurphy]

as italian I agree with you at 100%

But you were fine with Gregor F.u.c.k.a (its funny the site is censoring his last name ), representing Italy in the 90's ???? I don't have the problem with Banchero representing Italy, he has Italian blood and if its his wish to play for the Italy or the wish of his parents, that's completely fine . I have the issue with the players such as aforementioned F.u.c.k.a ,Ibaka,Mirotic etc. and the naturalized American players who are playing for the bunch of different NT's and they don't have any connection to those countries besides being naturalized and paid for their services.

Fuchka played in Italy since his youth and he was actually speaking Italian.

yeah, compare the "italianity" of Gregor with that of Banchero is as compare night and day

[Mirotic12]

Insurance and some probably wayyy better on what the Americans have offered. These duals, i hope one day we get a real Alpha and just ditch their stronger national team for the weaker one just to prove they can lead a team of their own and challenge USA.

But to an extent, this is like free agency and you have to choose between the Hornets… and Lakers. Who in their right mind will choose the Hornets?

All of the player's contracts are fully insured by FIBA. So are all of their injury and medical costs. They are even fully insured by FIBA for all prep games and even for all practices and training. And no NBA player can spend more than one month of training time with their national team, and that is the rule for every national team. So all of that would be the same with Team USA or with Team Italy.

But yes, in terms of the money involved, of course it's way more with Team USA. They supposedly had a $200 million budget all the way back in 2008. While most of the big European federations currently have budgets in the €10 million euros to €25 million euros range.

[Mirotic12]

Luka & Tobey playing in this?

Tobey is one of the naturalized hired mercenaries, and they rarely play more than a tournament or two. Maybe he will play though, because he's already played in the Olympics and the EuroBasket. So the World Cup is the only tournament out of the big three international tournaments that he hasn't played in yet.

[Mirotic12]

We already talked about it, do not listen to some fanboys, I am FIBA fanboy too, but I can admit FIBA itself has no prestige, FIBA and prestigious doesnt even belong in same sentence sadly, I mean, some of us Euros, care about it very very much, but it is background sport. FIBA Olympics is far far more prestigious than FIBA World Cup, FIBA can try convince everyone otherwise, but thats just not how it is. I dont even know what Mirotic12 was crying about, I am shocked anyone could even argue this topic, Olympics are far more prestigious.

World cup has over 30 teams, Olympics only 12, so maybe fans of teams that has no real chance at Olympics, but only at world cup, can try convince themselves they are in more prestigious tournament, but it is just a lie. Happened exactly what I said, I said Americans arent the only ones who usually send a B squads to WC, its WC, we in Lithuania the whole year knew we will have huge roster loses because its WC, and here we are, SAbonis is not playing, seem like Grigonis, Giedraitis and Echodas already declined.

Just compare roster of teams that usually qualify in both tournaments and you will have an answer which tournament players care about and which not. End of story.

The World Cup rosters are clearly stronger on average than the Olympics rosters are on average. So what you are claiming is simply an incorrect personal opinion.

[TorontoBarneys]

Imagine if Yugoslavia was still around?

They'd be owning in many sports right now.

[Mirotic12]

Imagine if Yugoslavia was still around?

They'd be owning in many sports right now.

Or they would still be fighting each other.