Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Netaman]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

I don't see Dame holding a gun to portland's head for 1 spot if they have a preferable offer in the other spot he already said he'd like to go to. i agree he almost definitely prefers miami but just like the KD pursuit they dont have a lot to offer with bam off the table.

[JoseRizal]

I'd rather went ahead and trade Mikal for #3 (Scoot) & Simons than to give up 4 or more picks to get Dame.

At least the former allows us to keep the valuable PHX picks while developing young talent, than to blow our load for a 2-3 year window of competence and have no semblance of future afterwards.

As long as you're up against Giannis, Embiid, Tatum and the Heat, I don't think we'll go far in the East.

Otoh, if it's Luka we're talking about, then I'll throw even the kitchen sink for him.

[Eatgreenz]

We could possibly flip royce or dfs for a future 1st from Cleveland or Memphis to use in a Dame trade. But like someone said i am not trading more than 4 picks for Dame or hang up the phone.

[Marvin Martian]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

[Tha King]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

I don't see Dame holding a gun to portland's head for 1 spot if they have a preferable offer in the other spot he already said he'd like to go to. i agree he almost definitely prefers miami but just like the KD pursuit they dont have a lot to offer with bam off the table.

This Dame situation is different than KD imo because he seems to actually want to stay in Portland if they build around him but it doesn't appear there's interest in that. So from a perception standpoint it wouldn't be a good look to refuse to build around him and then also refuse to trade him to his preferred destination. You're right though in that it would depend on how adamant he'd be about Miami.

[Tha King]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

[Netaman]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

the heat cap situation is going to make it hard if not impossible to bring back strus and vincent though, which are 2 significant pieces. butler (45), bam (32), lowry (30), herro (27), robinson (18), oladipo (9.5m) martin (6m) = that's 170m+ and almost in the apron with just 7 players. they are already at 200m with cap holds and none of those cap holds are more than 3m individually.

as long as butler is butler and has bam next to him with spo coaching they are going to be a tough team, but they were a surprise contender, not a real contender. that's why they are so all in on adding lillard to try to be a real contender while butler is still playing the way he is.

but they have real $ challenges and very few draft picks.

some have forgotten how empty their warchest was in the KD sweepstakes unless bam was on the table. it is not bigger now, if anything it's gotten smaller.

[vincecarter4pres]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

Was just going to say this.

[vincecarter4pres]

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

the heat cap situation is going to make it hard if not impossible to bring back strus and vincent though, which are 2 significant pieces. butler (45), bam (32), lowry (30), herro (27), robinson (18), oladipo (9.5m) martin (6m) = that's 170m+ and almost in the apron with just 7 players. they are already at 200m with cap holds and none of those cap holds are more than 3m individually.

as long as butler is butler and has bam next to him with spo coaching they are going to be a tough team, but they were a surprise contender, not a real contender. that's why they are so all in on adding lillard to try to be a real contender while butler is still playing the way he is.

but they have real $ challenges and very few draft picks.

some have forgotten how empty their warchest was in the KD sweepstakes unless bam was on the table. it is not bigger now, if anything it's gotten smaller.

I’m sure they can find ways to get creative and dump a small contract like Oladipo with 2nds and cash, trade Herro somewhere for a TPE or expirings, etc.

There is almost always a way to get creative. Expanding the deal with more players and more teams, etc.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'd rather went ahead and trade Mikal for #3 (Scoot) & Simons than to give up 4 or more picks to get Dame.

At least the former allows us to keep the valuable PHX picks while developing young talent, than to blow our load for a 2-3 year window of competence and have no semblance of future afterwards.

As long as you're up against Giannis, Embiid, Tatum and the Heat, I don't think we'll go far in the East.

Otoh, if it's Luka we're talking about, then I'll throw even the kitchen sink for him.

Same.

This is a definition of insanity moment yet again.

Even if we truly contend, it will be as a darkhorse and will probably only last 2 seasons.

I’d prefer to go after Trae Young tbh, he’d probably come cheaper asset-wise as well and you’d likely be able to ship out Simmons in the deal.

Lillard is a great player, borderline all timer, but the stone cold facts are he’s 33.

He’ll probably be a very good player till he retires, but when he starts losing that quickness and first step, elevation on his drives and jumpers, burst and change of direction, he’s going to be $60 million a year Mike Conley.

[vincecarter4pres]

And with Dame, I just don't see how he'd prefer to play for the Nets over the Heat. If he's traded it's going to come down less to what Portland wants than what he wants - far less, like he's going where he wants to. He wants to compete and they are on a different timeline. They obviously don't want to build around him anymore and when you also factor how loyal he's been to them this isn't even comparable to some of the past stars asking out.

So with that understood, I just can't see him wanting to play in Brooklyn over the Heat that would have Butler, Bam and a roster that went to the finals. Truthfully, some of the depth charts with Dame in Brooklyn are not far and away superior to what he's played with in Portland. Don't get me wrong, the rosters would be better but not so much so that he leaves his situation in Portland for. The Heat though give him a title contender day one.

I don't see Dame holding a gun to portland's head for 1 spot if they have a preferable offer in the other spot he already said he'd like to go to. i agree he almost definitely prefers miami but just like the KD pursuit they dont have a lot to offer with bam off the table.

He’s not going to have to.

There will be respect given here and as long as the deals are close, he’s probably going to his #1 preferred destination.

[Tha King]

You are overrating the Heat. They made their playoff run due to shooting the 3 at a historic level. Considering that they were one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams during the regular season, you cannot expect this to continue.

The Nets have a younger nucleus and if the price for Dame is cheap enough, they can get some additional talent on top of Dame.

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

the heat cap situation is going to make it hard if not impossible to bring back strus and vincent though, which are 2 significant pieces. butler (45), bam (32), lowry (30), herro (27), robinson (18), oladipo (9.5m) martin (6m) = that's 170m+ and almost in the apron with just 7 players. they are already at 200m with cap holds and none of those cap holds are more than 3m individually.

as long as butler is butler and has bam next to him with spo coaching they are going to be a tough team, but they were a surprise contender, not a real contender. that's why they are so all in on adding lillard to try to be a real contender while butler is still playing the way he is.

but they have real $ challenges and very few draft picks.

some have forgotten how empty their warchest was in the KD sweepstakes unless bam was on the table. it is not bigger now, if anything it's gotten smaller.

tbf the Brooklyn cap situation will be difficult as well if you have Cam Johnson eating up $30M a year which could be a very real possibility. You also still have Simmons for the next couple years as well unless the team uses assets to trade him.

Maybe the Heat can't retain some of their role players but they'd still have Butler (arguably better than Lillard) and Bam which is the most important thing. They've also shown a consistent ability to find contributors.

[Netaman]

The same core also made the ECF last year (one make from the finals) and the finals a couple years back as well though.

the heat cap situation is going to make it hard if not impossible to bring back strus and vincent though, which are 2 significant pieces. butler (45), bam (32), lowry (30), herro (27), robinson (18), oladipo (9.5m) martin (6m) = that's 170m+ and almost in the apron with just 7 players. they are already at 200m with cap holds and none of those cap holds are more than 3m individually.

as long as butler is butler and has bam next to him with spo coaching they are going to be a tough team, but they were a surprise contender, not a real contender. that's why they are so all in on adding lillard to try to be a real contender while butler is still playing the way he is.

but they have real $ challenges and very few draft picks.

some have forgotten how empty their warchest was in the KD sweepstakes unless bam was on the table. it is not bigger now, if anything it's gotten smaller.

I’m sure they can find ways to get creative and dump a small contract like Oladipo with 2nds and cash, trade Herro somewhere for a TPE or expirings, etc.

There is almost always a way to get creative. Expanding the deal with more players and more teams, etc.

sure but expanding and dumping contracts means including assets to other teams and takes away from what they can offer portland.

the poole trade has completely changed how i perceive nets chances for lillard. along with what the miami beat reported about portland not being in love with miami's "assets", because obviously the main asset is herro since they dont have very many picks.

the challenge of moving $ appears to be a very real thing, which i think also gives the nets another advantage if one of Portland's goals is to clear the Nurkic contract.

fyi a lot of what i've been posting re miami comes straight from their beat:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

nets just have a lot more expirings and a lot more picks than miami. just as the suns did in the kd sweeps, which is why miami was never a serious consideration.

[JKiddy]

The Nets are in control here. They can likely trade expirings a 2 excellent picks plus a swap to get Dame. If they chose not to budge on that and POR overplays their hand they will likely get a worse deal from MIA or another team Dame decides he would play for.

I am not for trading 3 picks for Dame at 32/33. That would be suicide after 2025. It wouldn't make sense for this franchise UNLESS they have another deal bringing in ANOTHER STAR this summer as well.

Tick Tock.

[Tha King]

You can't just look at what Brooklyn can offer (vs. Miami), you have to also consider where that leaves the Brooklyn team Dame would be going to. If you offer valuable and contributing contracts (Din, O'Neale, DFS) the team Dame would be going to is not all that special and would basically be four or so players (Dame, Bridges, Claxton, CJ) of which none outside of Dame have been all stars while Ben Simmons would have to be a key contributor.

If you include Simmons then you basically have to add Claxton and empty the picks and this is the roster you're committing to for the foreseeable future.

[Netaman]

You can't just look at what Brooklyn can offer (vs. Miami), you have to also consider where that leaves the Brooklyn team Dame would be going to. If you offer valuable and contributing contracts (Din, O'Neale, DFS) the team Dame would be going to is not all that special and would basically be four or so players (Dame, Bridges, Claxton, CJ) of which none outside of Dame have been all stars while Ben Simmons would have to be a key contributor.

If you include Simmons then you basically have to add Claxton and empty the picks and this is the roster you're committing to for the foreseeable future.

i dont see any way portland takes simmons.

the nets package starts with harris/patty as 27m worth or expiring deals who don't take anything away from the current roster.

put DFS in the deal to a 3rd team like IND for another FRP to Portland, and you have only lost 1 rotation player and added Lillard. im not saying i expect the deal to be that simple, just that this is a very doable deal for the nets if portland's preferred package is future picks and expiring contracts.

if portland demands nurkic contract in the deal too, the nets have to match with dinwiddie going the other way, but in terms of on court contribution off the bench i think that may actually be a worthwhile swap for the nets. they have more depth in the backcourt than the front court and with lillard it's unlikely dinwiddie is a starter.

[Netaman]

like i said there is a super simple framework for both teams if all portland wants is picks and expiring deals and the nets can find a 3rd team to take DFS into cap room or a TE for a future pick that goes to portland. miami just doesn't have as many picks or expiring deals.

[Netaman]

in terms of expirings miami can match that simple version btw. which is why i expect the nets decision to be whether or not to deal to 4 FRPs to beat the miami offer (which i think they would).



it will get easier to beat the miami offer if portland wants to move off nurkic, because to take on nurkic the heat would have to trade herro or robinson to a 3rd team for more expirings which may require assets.

which is why i think this barry jackson tweet is dead on:

Read on Twitter

maxey doesn't worry me too much because philly has no picks to deal and i dont think he's a good fit with scoot and all the other guards portland has recently drafted.

[Tha King]

like i said there is a super simple framework for both teams if all portland wants is picks and expiring deals and the nets can find a 3rd team to take DFS into cap room or a TE for a future pick that goes to portland. miami just doesn't have as many picks or expiring deals.

Cam Johnson and Ben Simmons are the elephants in the room because that'll be a very expensive team going into a new CBA.

Let's say Cam Johnson returns at $21m.

You're looking at $172m+ with Dame ($46m), Cam Johnson ($21m), Din ($20m), Bridges ($22m), Simmons ($38m), O'Neale ($10m), Claxton ($9m), Cam Thomas ($2m), Sharpe ($2m), Sumner ($2m).

CJ could very possibly get ~$30m which would not be a tradeable contract and would take you to $180m+ for team that's not even elite and clearly needs more moves with the roster.

[Netaman]

Cam Johnson and Ben Simmons are the elephants in the room because that'll be a very expensive team going into a new CBA.

Let's say Cam Johnson returns at $21m.

You're looking at $172m+ with Dame ($46m), Cam Johnson ($21m), Din ($20m), Bridges ($22m), Simmons ($38m), O'Neale ($10m), Claxton ($9m), Cam Thomas ($2m), Sharpe ($2m), Sumner ($2m).

i dont think simmons is an elephant in the room because they have enough expiring deals to trade without trading him. even in this iteration above, they still have din+oneale+clax as expiring deals for a follow-up deal if there's something big they wanted to do after getting Dame (like siakam/og/pg3/towns, all of which i highly doubt but just using that as an example).

to be very clear, I DONT SEE THEM DOING A DEAL LIKE THIS, just showing that they could literally add any player they want with expiring deals post lillard trade (and with simmons still rostered!) via PG3 because he literally has the 7th biggest cap hit in the NBA next year and we know the top 6 aren't moving anywhere (lebron, kd, jokic, beal, embiid, steph).



imo simmons is a convenient placeholder for next year's shopping list when he turns into a 40m expiring.

CJ could very possibly get ~$30m which would not be a tradeable contract and would take you to $180m+ for team that's not even elite and clearly needs more moves with the roster.

if CJ gets that much they let him walk (and probably slot DFS into that spot) but im skeptical based on what we've seen in the marketplace. it's possible because all it takes is 1 team that's desperate but i think much more likely the nets match anything in the range of 20-25m.

unlike most RFA offer sheets Cam and Brooklyn seem to be on the same page wanting something to work out (as opposed to say Ayton and Phoenix which got contentious last year) so if he decides to go elsewhere bc its a deal too big for the nets i would hope they can work together find a way to work out a S&T even if it's only to get a giant TPE (as opposed to an offer sheet and losing him for nothing).