Team fitness is a problem

[GoSixersBro]

There's simply TOO MUCH PRESSURE on this team to win it all. This board can't even engage in a fashion that is light hearted enough for genuine discussion. You can't even crack a joke on here without being dragged into the pit. The trolls and other teams fans will infiltrate the board in due time.

At this point I'm down for operating with no pressure and getting the players who actually ENJOY playing basketball while creating a culture the Sixers desperately need to join this organization. Of course the onus of finding those players starts at the top.

That was generated by "the process," but if the team had obtained players highly driven to win a championship and who put the onus on themselves to develop their games and play in such a way as to win one, the pressure generated by "the process" wouldn't matter. That pressure would still exist at the front office/GM/head coach levels, whereas the championship culture generated at the player level would overcome it.

Again organizational cultures are mediated at the player level. The team has simply engaged in poor player selection in acquiring Embiid, Simmons, and Harden as its centerpieces, from the perspective of team culture development. There has been an organizational overvaluing and coddling of those players due to "the process" as well, which the higher levels of the organization is responsible for, but again if those players had championship DNA it would overcome that. Put as much pressure on Kobe Bryant as you want and he's still going to refine his game par excellence and play the way he does.

Ferry gonna be blaming Hinkie in 2031 for the Sixers still remaining ringless. My Lord.

[Ferry Avenue]

There's simply TOO MUCH PRESSURE on this team to win it all. This board can't even engage in a fashion that is light hearted enough for genuine discussion. You can't even crack a joke on here without being dragged into the pit. The trolls and other teams fans will infiltrate the board in due time.

At this point I'm down for operating with no pressure and getting the players who actually ENJOY playing basketball while creating a culture the Sixers desperately need to join this organization. Of course the onus of finding those players starts at the top.

That was generated by "the process," but if the team had obtained players highly driven to win a championship and who put the onus on themselves to develop their games and play in such a way as to win one, the pressure generated by "the process" wouldn't matter. That pressure would still exist at the front office/GM/head coach levels, whereas the championship culture generated at the player level would overcome it.

Again organizational cultures are mediated at the player level. The team has simply engaged in poor player selection in acquiring Embiid, Simmons, and Harden as its centerpieces, from the perspective of team culture development. There has been an organizational overvaluing and coddling of those players due to "the process" as well, which the higher levels of the organization is responsible for, but again if those players had championship DNA it would overcome that. Put as much pressure on Kobe Bryant as you want and he's still going to refine his game par excellence and play the way he does.

Ferry gonna be blaming Hinkie in 2031 for the Sixers still remaining ringless. My Lord.

The bolded and underlined portion above is entirely inconsistent with that.

However, what it does indicate is that if you're going to engage in "the process" and build that kind of pressure to win a championship into the organization, you'd better not miss on the players you acquire. Unfortunately this team has.

[GoSixersBro]

The pressure you speak of is made up by the Howard Eskin's and grumpy old men who were so angry to see the 2002-2013 treadmill Sixers torn down.

Not Sam, not Harris, not anybody had guaranteed a championship that would create this pressure by initiating the Process.

It was simply a new approach to build a team that would be in the mix. The team hadn't truly been in the mix since the 1980's outside of a single season in 2000-2001.

The franchise has experienced the most success in 35-40 years after bottoming out for Embiid. Hitting on Embiid was worth it.

Colangelo's misses on Simmons and Fultz cannot be blamed on the Process. They just can't. We can hypothetically speak of Sam taking the same exact two players, but we cannot be sure that's what would have transpired. Maybe he takes Ingram. Does he get fleeced by Ainge for Fultz? Personally I doubt it. Again, all hypotheticals after Sam was shoved out.

The part I slightly agree with you is that our team takes shortcuts for success. We salivate over big names to desperately put next to Joel, who might not be the answer. But we saw this way before the Process, back during the Iverson days.

Trading Simmons for Harden was of course a no-brainer due to the Ben holdout fiasco, but are we doubling down on an over the hill Harden just to be a fake contender this October when they release the odds? It's a great question to ask, but attributing the coddling of players who do not have the Kobe drive to win solely back to 2013-2016 is lazy and cope.

NBA teams have coddled stars forever, particularly during this century because stars put asses in seats. Over half the owners for sure don't expect to win a title. Personally I don't think our current ownership group ultimately cares if we ever advance past the second round. As long as they can sell the potential image and fill the arena and snatch a top 4 seed in the East, anything more is gravy. They will milk the Embiid cow to the last drop but don't actually have the basketball minds to see through a championship.

[mjkvol]

The pressure you speak of is made up by the Howard Eskin's and grumpy old men who were so angry to see the 2002-2013 treadmill Sixers torn down.

Not Sam, not Harris, not anybody had guaranteed a championship that would create this pressure by initiating the Process.

It was simply a new approach to build a team that would be in the mix. The team hadn't truly been in the mix since the 1980's outside of a single season in 2000-2001.

The franchise has experienced the most success in 35-40 years after bottoming out for Embiid. Hitting on Embiid was worth it.

Colangelo's misses on Simmons and Fultz cannot be blamed on the Process. They just can't. We can hypothetically speak of Sam taking the same exact two players, but we cannot be sure that's what would have transpired. Maybe he takes Ingram. Does he get fleeced by Ainge for Fultz? Personally I doubt it. Again, all hypotheticals after Sam was shoved out.

The part I slightly agree with you is that our team takes shortcuts for success. We salivate over big names to desperately put next to Joel, who might not be the answer. But we saw this way before the Process, back during the Iverson days.

Trading Simmons for Harden was of course a no-brainer due to the Ben holdout fiasco, but are we doubling down on an over the hill Harden just to be a fake contender this October when they release the odds? It's a great question to ask, but attributing the coddling of players who do not have the Kobe drive to win solely back to 2013-2016 is lazy and cope.

NBA teams have coddled stars forever, particularly during this century because stars put asses in seats. Over half the owners for sure don't expect to win a title. Personally I don't think our current ownership group ultimately cares if we ever advance past the second round. As long as they can sell the potential image and fill the arena and snatch a top 4 seed in the East, anything more is gravy. They will milk the Embiid cow to the last drop but don't actually have the basketball minds to see through a championship.

All true, and it can be 100% attributed to the incompetence that followed Hinkie caused by Silver's filthy interference and horrible hires up until Morey and Nurse. As you said, no one 'guaranteed' a damn thing, and no promises were ever made.

The mere idea that the Process had a thing to do with the Sixers' playoff disappointments is beyond asinine, but what it did produce was one of the great players in the history of the franchise and a run of relative success that might have fallen short of expectations, but is a hell of a lot more than many fan bases have experienced in the last 6-7 years.

[Mik317]

yeah it sucks in the moment and obviously isnt as fun as the "anything can happen" time early on but the fact that we are even able to be crushed after playoff losses alone is a massive improvement on the "well at least we didn't get swept" era.

yeah it be great to be Warriors level contenders that are just blitzing through teams but 3 game 7s...two of which were very winnable is not the worst spot to be in. The ball bounces a different way for once lol and we make a conference finals.

also the ammount of constant mistakes we have made over the last decade shows that the process was valid because it took 10 years to finally run out of assets and we are still able to "contend" because we hit it big on one of the picks lol.

[mjkvol]

I wonder if this will be a late '70's Phillies type of thing, where they had great teams with a ton of expectations and kept falling short in excruciating fashion (1977 game 3, anyone?), and then in 1980 when that group was on its last legs, a new manager injected a different feeling, and all of a sudden those same 'chokers' got big hits, clutch pitching and defensive plays on their way to a World Series.

I had nightmares for years after watching this, but 1980 erased all of them.

Watch on YouTube

[Ferry Avenue]

The pressure you speak of is made up by the Howard Eskin's and grumpy old men who were so angry to see the 2002-2013 treadmill Sixers torn down.

Not Sam, not Harris, not anybody had guaranteed a championship that would create this pressure by initiating the Process.

It was simply a new approach to build a team that would be in the mix. The team hadn't truly been in the mix since the 1980's outside of a single season in 2000-2001.

The franchise has experienced the most success in 35-40 years after bottoming out for Embiid. Hitting on Embiid was worth it.

Colangelo's misses on Simmons and Fultz cannot be blamed on the Process. They just can't. We can hypothetically speak of Sam taking the same exact two players, but we cannot be sure that's what would have transpired. Maybe he takes Ingram. Does he get fleeced by Ainge for Fultz? Personally I doubt it. Again, all hypotheticals after Sam was shoved out.

The part I slightly agree with you is that our team takes shortcuts for success. We salivate over big names to desperately put next to Joel, who might not be the answer. But we saw this way before the Process, back during the Iverson days.

Trading Simmons for Harden was of course a no-brainer due to the Ben holdout fiasco, but are we doubling down on an over the hill Harden just to be a fake contender this October when they release the odds? It's a great question to ask, but attributing the coddling of players who do not have the Kobe drive to win solely back to 2013-2016 is lazy and cope.

NBA teams have coddled stars forever, particularly during this century because stars put asses in seats. Over half the owners for sure don't expect to win a title. Personally I don't think our current ownership group ultimately cares if we ever advance past the second round. As long as they can sell the potential image and fill the arena and snatch a top 4 seed in the East, anything more is gravy. They will milk the Embiid cow to the last drop but don't actually have the basketball minds to see through a championship.

Nowhere have I attributed the misses on players to "the process." As I said above, "the process" simply builds extraordinary pressure to win a championship into the organization. Whether the organization is successful in acquiring the necessary players with the resources generated by the process is another matter, and depends entirely on competence in player selection.

What "the process" does in relation to player selection however is make it even more important that you select players whose passion for the game and drive to win overcomes the inherent pressure associated with being obtained as a "rescuer" of a franchise that lost intentionally and asked its fanbase to "trust" that the necessary star players would be forthcoming. You'd better be targeting Kobe Bryants and not Ben Simmonses. Kobe Bryant can tolerate and overcome the inherent pressure associated with "rescuing" such a franchise. Ben Simmons cannot. Markelle Fultz cannot either. He collapsed mentally shortly after the selection.

You need a tremendous amount of mettle to be inserted into such a situation and excel. Anybody with questionable drive and passion shouldn't be selected. And that's indeed fallout from "the process." Teams that don't lose on purpose don't generate that kind of pressure on their draft picks.

[Jhawk03]

That was generated by "the process," but if the team had obtained players highly driven to win a championship and who put the onus on themselves to develop their games and play in such a way as to win one, the pressure generated by "the process" wouldn't matter. That pressure would still exist at the front office/GM/head coach levels, whereas the championship culture generated at the player level would overcome it.

Again organizational cultures are mediated at the player level. The team has simply engaged in poor player selection in acquiring Embiid, Simmons, and Harden as its centerpieces, from the perspective of team culture development. There has been an organizational overvaluing and coddling of those players due to "the process" as well, which the higher levels of the organization is responsible for, but again if those players had championship DNA it would overcome that. Put as much pressure on Kobe Bryant as you want and he's still going to refine his game par excellence and play the way he does.

Ferry gonna be blaming Hinkie in 2031 for the Sixers still remaining ringless. My Lord.

The bolded and underlined portion above is entirely inconsistent with that.

However, what it does indicate is that if you're going to engage in "the process" and build that kind of pressure to win a championship into the organization, you'd better not miss on the players you acquire. Unfortunately this team has.

I didn't mean to conflate the idea of "the process" with there being too much pressure on this CURRENT team to win it all. I'm not entirely sure those two things are even congruent so many years after "the process".

If you really look at the idea of "the process" as a whole, and the controversy that followed, I think it's unfair to implicate that a championship was guaranteed or even promised. The fact that even starting a "process" begins with the Ownership/FO at the top doing what's necessary (such as tanking and fishing for assets and losing revenue by being terrible over an extended period of time) in order to optimize the opportunity to pull a Kobe Bryant out of a hat of years of Ben Simmons type drafts is in fact disingenuous to the idea of the process being promoted as a PROMISE or GUARANTEE of a title. Again... a fish rots from the head down... and it all starts with ownership, always has. Once we find the next "Kobe" (which I believe genuinely was the ultimate goal of starting "the process"... NOT a promised gifted ring) then that "Kobe" and the players that follow will institute the culture necessary for winning.

The Ownership/FO along with the media failed to really educate the fan base of the nature of such an idea like the process because it was never tried before or even if it could work in theory... instead they doubled down by allowing the snake and co. to undermine the process' true goal.

[Ferry Avenue]

Ferry gonna be blaming Hinkie in 2031 for the Sixers still remaining ringless. My Lord.

The bolded and underlined portion above is entirely inconsistent with that.

However, what it does indicate is that if you're going to engage in "the process" and build that kind of pressure to win a championship into the organization, you'd better not miss on the players you acquire. Unfortunately this team has.

I didn't mean to conflate the idea of "the process" with there being too much pressure on this CURRENT team to win it all. I'm not entirely sure those two things are even congruent so many years after "the process".

If you really look at the idea of "the process" as a whole, and the controversy that followed, I think it's unfair to implicate that a championship was guaranteed or even promised. The fact that even starting a "process" begins with the Ownership/FO at the top doing what's necessary (such as tanking and fishing for assets and losing revenue by being terrible over an extended period of time) in order to optimize the opportunity to pull a Kobe Bryant out of a hat of years of Ben Simmons type drafts is in fact disingenuous to the idea of the process being promoted as a PROMISE or GUARANTEE of a title. Again... a fish rots from the head down... and it all starts with ownership, always has. Once we find the next "Kobe" (which I believe genuinely was the ultimate goal of starting "the process"... NOT a promised gifted ring) then that "Kobe" and the players that follow will institute the culture necessary for winning.

The Ownership/FO along with the media failed to really educate the fan base of the nature of such an idea like the process because it was never tried before or even if it could work in theory... instead they doubled down by allowing the snake and co. to undermine the process' true goal.

I don't see how you can call "the process" essentially "over" when the team is right in the middle of when championships would be expected to be won with the players selected with the draft picks generated by it. This is Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz's prime, when they'd be expected to come together as a group and spur this team to a championship. So you no longer have Simmons or Fultz, but you have whatever they generated in trade, along with Embiid, and so "the process" remains alive. If this team goes out there and wins a championship next year with Embiid and Harden -- who was obtained for Simmons -- leading the way, you can bet you'll hear plenty about how "the process" indeed "worked" after all.

[Jhawk03]

The bolded and underlined portion above is entirely inconsistent with that.

However, what it does indicate is that if you're going to engage in "the process" and build that kind of pressure to win a championship into the organization, you'd better not miss on the players you acquire. Unfortunately this team has.

I didn't mean to conflate the idea of "the process" with there being too much pressure on this CURRENT team to win it all. I'm not entirely sure those two things are even congruent so many years after "the process".

If you really look at the idea of "the process" as a whole, and the controversy that followed, I think it's unfair to implicate that a championship was guaranteed or even promised. The fact that even starting a "process" begins with the Ownership/FO at the top doing what's necessary (such as tanking and fishing for assets and losing revenue by being terrible over an extended period of time) in order to optimize the opportunity to pull a Kobe Bryant out of a hat of years of Ben Simmons type drafts is in fact disingenuous to the idea of the process being promoted as a PROMISE or GUARANTEE of a title. Again... a fish rots from the head down... and it all starts with ownership, always has. Once we find the next "Kobe" (which I believe genuinely was the ultimate goal of starting "the process"... NOT a promised gifted ring) then that "Kobe" and the players that follow will institute the culture necessary for winning.

The Ownership/FO along with the media failed to really educate the fan base of the nature of such an idea like the process because it was never tried before or even if it could work in theory... instead they doubled down by allowing the snake and co. to undermine the process' true goal.

I don't see how you can call "the process" essentially "over" when the team is right in the middle of when championships would be expected to be won with the players selected with the draft picks generated by it. This is Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz's prime, when they'd be expected to come together as a group and spur this team to a championship. So you no longer have Simmons or Fultz, but you have whatever they generated in trade, along with Embiid, and so "the process" remains alive. If this team goes out there and wins a championship next year with Embiid and Harden -- who was obtained for Simmons -- leading the way, you can bet you'll hear plenty about how "the process" indeed "worked" after all.

I never said "the process" was "over". But the idea of it died many years ago, so unless you want to argue the mutated version of "the process" my opinion will not change.

[Bum Adebayo]

Yes the fitness is really bad, it all starts from very poor leadership up top, time to blow it up and replace almost every position from top to bottom.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Please get Niang tf outta here

[brannigan73]

How old are you GoSixersBro? Before lecturing grumpy old men you try living through the Sixers of most of the 90's. Think about players like Clarence Weatherspoon, Sharonne Wright, and Shawn Bradley before lecturing people, There is no block by age concerning the validity of the process. Im 50 I supported it and the reason it failed had nothing to do with the initial strategy but you shouldnt be lumping groups of people together that seems to be the fashion of younger people today.