The Guards

[VFX]

I really don’t dislike Markelle. I think he’s a genuinely good dude. I just don’t want him to be making good starters money when his skillset is that of a backup point guard.

It’s just too easy to scheme against such a player in 2023 and there are too many other options. I honestly wouldn’t even care if he was the backup, but we all know that’s never going to be an option with the contract he was already handed.

IF Cole and Fultz were to accept off-the-bench roles and commensurate pay scale, we could keep them...I don't see it and I wouldn't blame them.

Neither have the positional versatility necessary that locking up the amount of money needed to keep both makes sense at 1 position compared to the rest of the roster.

[orlando_joe]

I really don’t dislike Markelle. I think he’s a genuinely good dude. I just don’t want him to be making good starters money when his skillset is that of a backup point guard.

It’s just too easy to scheme against such a player in 2023 and there are too many other options. I honestly wouldn’t even care if he was the backup, but we all know that’s never going to be an option with the contract he was already handed.

IF Cole and Fultz were to accept off-the-bench roles and commensurate pay scale, we could keep them...I don't see it and I wouldn't blame them.

Neither have the positional versatility necessary that locking up the amount of money needed to keep both makes sense at 1 position compared to the rest of the roster.

you could extend fultz using cap and add like using 20 mill to this yrs salary like pacers with turner 3 yrs for 50 making next 3 yrs 10 mill each right? how did that work last yr? or 15/10/5 added to this yr so by time franz signed fultz gets 10 and 5 if magic not signing anyone big..even if trading him next summer he would be 3 for 30 at 15/10/5 thats great asset i would think?

[VFX]

IF Cole and Fultz were to accept off-the-bench roles and commensurate pay scale, we could keep them...I don't see it and I wouldn't blame them.

Neither have the positional versatility necessary that locking up the amount of money needed to keep both makes sense at 1 position compared to the rest of the roster.

you could extend fultz using cap and add like using 20 mill to this yrs salary like pacers with turner 3 yrs for 50 making next 3 yrs 10 mill each right? how did that work last yr? or 15/10/5 added to this yr so by time franz signed fultz gets 10 and 5 if magic not signing anyone big..even if trading him next summer he would be 3 for 30 at 15/10/5 thats great asset i would think?

They absolutely could. What does the minute distribution look like between Fultz/Cole/and Black for the next two seasons? I’m still not seeing it as a viable option.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Neither have the positional versatility necessary that locking up the amount of money needed to keep both makes sense at 1 position compared to the rest of the roster.

you could extend fultz using cap and add like using 20 mill to this yrs salary like pacers with turner 3 yrs for 50 making next 3 yrs 10 mill each right? how did that work last yr? or 15/10/5 added to this yr so by time franz signed fultz gets 10 and 5 if magic not signing anyone big..even if trading him next summer he would be 3 for 30 at 15/10/5 thats great asset i would think?

They absolutely could. What does the minute distribution look like between Fultz/Cole/and Black for the next two seasons? I’m still not seeing it as a viable option.

you're not seeing it because you're smart and not throwing Black in at SF like a ton of others are doing just because he's got size and defensively can hold his own.

[orlando_joe]

you could extend fultz using cap and add like using 20 mill to this yrs salary like pacers with turner 3 yrs for 50 making next 3 yrs 10 mill each right? how did that work last yr? or 15/10/5 added to this yr so by time franz signed fultz gets 10 and 5 if magic not signing anyone big..even if trading him next summer he would be 3 for 30 at 15/10/5 thats great asset i would think?

They absolutely could. What does the minute distribution look like between Fultz/Cole/and Black for the next two seasons? I’m still not seeing it as a viable option.

you're not seeing it because you're smart and not throwing Black in at SF like a ton of others are doing just because he's got size and defensively can hold his own.

why not with black/cole/jett off bench at times?

[MartinsIzAfraud]

They absolutely could. What does the minute distribution look like between Fultz/Cole/and Black for the next two seasons? I’m still not seeing it as a viable option.

you're not seeing it because you're smart and not throwing Black in at SF like a ton of others are doing just because he's got size and defensively can hold his own.

why not with black/cole/jett off bench at times?

Down 15 late in the 4th I could see it

[J the Drafter]

Dual-PG lineup—two point guards on the floor together. Teams have done it before—the Magic have done it before—and the Magic won’t surrender size at the guard spots except when Cole is in. The alternative is to value fit so highly that we give away at least one capable player because we’re not creative enough to find a way to play them together.

[VFX]

Dual-PG lineup—two point guards on the floor together. Teams have done it before—the Magic have done it before—and the Magic won’t surrender size at the guard spots except when Cole is in. The alternative is to value fit so highly that we give away at least one capable player because we’re not creative enough to find a way to play them together.

You think it's lack of creativity, or is it just a terrible mix of skillsets that don't result in winning basketball?

I've heard arguments about how Fultz and Suggs can't share the floor because they lack shooting. Therefore, Gary Harris has to be paid a lot of money to alleviate Fultz inability to stretch the floor.

Now I'm being told we "lack creativity" because three point guards, one that can shoot OK, one that wont/can't, and now one that needs to learn how to effectively need to share the floor. Got it.

Talk about making exceptions to roll out terrible lineups.

Maybe AG can play SF and solve all of our shooting issues after a season of an improved jumper...Right??

[Knightro]

Dual-PG lineup—two point guards on the floor together. Teams have done it before—the Magic have done it before—and the Magic won’t surrender size at the guard spots except when Cole is in. The alternative is to value fit so highly that we give away at least one capable player because we’re not creative enough to find a way to play them together.

Dual PG lineups only work when one or both players can shoot well enough and are generally comfortable enough to play off the ball.

The Fultz/Cole pairing last year was horrible fwiw. Neither guy is good without the ball in his hands.

[Knightro]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET
Fultz/Harris -2.9 NET
Fultz/Cole -8.3 NET

[VFX]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET
Fultz/Harris -2.9 NET
Fultz/Cole -8.3 NET

+100

This is exhibit A as to why I could give less of a **** about last seasons starting guards and paying them the money to stick around after drafting both of their replacements.

[uraverage]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET

I really liked how Suggs's defensive intensity lifted Cole up a level on defense and motivated him to play better defense.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET
Fultz/Harris -2.9 NET
Fultz/Cole -8.3 NET

+100

This is exhibit A as to why I could give less of a **** about last seasons starting guards and paying them the money to stick around after drafting both of their replacements.

BINGO if I could I’d ship both Cole & Suggs go get FVV in FA.

FVV Black Suggs and Harris as your 1/2 spots depending on what we receive back

[VFX]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET
Fultz/Harris -2.9 NET
Fultz/Cole -8.3 NET

+100

This is exhibit A as to why I could give less of a **** about last seasons starting guards and paying them the money to stick around after drafting both of their replacements.

BINGO if I could I’d ship both Cole & Suggs go get FVV in FA.

FVV Black Suggs and Harris as your 1/2 spots depending on what we receive back

Personally I would get rid of Gary and Markelle. Cole isn't going to command the price FVV would and he was a positive with Suggs.

Cole/Black
Suggs/Howard

[MartinsIzAfraud]

+100

This is exhibit A as to why I could give less of a **** about last seasons starting guards and paying them the money to stick around after drafting both of their replacements.

BINGO if I could I’d ship both Cole & Suggs go get FVV in FA.

FVV Black Suggs and Harris as your 1/2 spots depending on what we receive back

Personally I would get rid of Gary and Markelle. Cole isn't going to command the price FVV would and he was a positive with Suggs.

Cole/Black
Suggs/Howard

Yeah will be interesting to see what FVV gets. He can want 30 but don’t see it happening.

[Skybox]

Dual-PG lineup—two point guards on the floor together. Teams have done it before—the Magic have done it before—and the Magic won’t surrender size at the guard spots except when Cole is in. The alternative is to value fit so highly that we give away at least one capable player because we’re not creative enough to find a way to play them together.

Dual PG lineups only work when one or both players can shoot well enough and are generally comfortable enough to play off the ball.

The Fultz/Cole pairing last year was horrible fwiw. Neither guy is good without the ball in his hands.

Right...the reality of that scenario is that one of the PGs ISN'T playing PG...just not feasible with two non-shooters. Pick one to bet on...I pick the bigger, younger, cheaper, better defender, with more than a prayer of developing shooting.

[Skybox]

Last season...

Cole/Suggs +3.4 NET

I really liked how Suggs's defensive intensity lifted Cole up a level on defense and motivated him to play better defense.

This is absolutely true. I noticed it as well...not just Cole but Suggs' intensity is contagious.

[Skybox]

BINGO if I could I’d ship both Cole & Suggs go get FVV in FA.

FVV Black Suggs and Harris as your 1/2 spots depending on what we receive back

Personally I would get rid of Gary and Markelle. Cole isn't going to command the price FVV would and he was a positive with Suggs.

Cole/Black
Suggs/Howard

Yeah will be interesting to see what FVV gets. He can want 30 but don’t see it happening.

I think he will...just not from us. TOR, HOU, UTA are all shopping for a leader and all can pay him his market value.

[pepe1991]

Lol all I said was reddit/Twitter aren't as harsh on him as here and I'm getting dissed about Elfrid?

Didn't even say Fultz should get extended or not either, just basically that from all we've heard from people, he is very well-liked.

Reddit threads are made out of over a top people, normally age 12-20 who are basically delusional fanboys and every single thread turns into : who farts more rainbows over XY player.

I made comment about movie after first week of box office that it will lose money. i got 35 downvotes. Movie lost near $100 000 000. Those people don't comprehend reality, they live in their imaginary bubble, supported by equally delusional people who share exect opinion(s) and once proven wrong, or faced with evidence to disprove it, they find new object or topic to worship.


Payton thing reminds me so much about Fultz because it's similar.
Not starting level PG on good team being hyped for no reason, despite average numbers, despite fact everybody knew non-shooting PGs don't work in nba. It didn't work for us in 2017 and for damn sure doesn't work near 7 yeras later.

It's not about Markelle Fultz per-se, it's about arhytype of balldominant player who needs 4 shooters to work, when he simply isn't good enough to adjust roster to his needs, rather it's easier to repalce him as problem.

·
4 days ago
Paolo Banchero
It's a very valid post but you will get downvoted because people can't stand criticism of things that they had nothing to do with.

Poor shooting PGs don't really show their warts until the playoffs, when things get a lot more micro. Teams start going under on every play and suddenly that pick and roll is not humming anymore. That is why people raving about Fultz making the Magic a .400 team sound ridiculous to me.

We know this, but a lot of people here live in a fantasyland.

I want Black to be awesome, but his shot needs a TON of work. It could happen, but if you watch him play, the guy was given wide open 3s all season from the college line and he was many times shattering the rim and backboard or just missing it completely. He has a hitch and no confidence to take jumpers, so it's going to be quite a project to turn that around.

This is somehow "hate" post in that place.

I don't use twitter, but it's basically rigged to only see things you like,support , especially politics. That creates even faker reality for users.

[Residual-Heat]

Reddit Magic board is horrible. I remember last offseason everyone was convinced Fultz-Suggs would be the starting backcourt. Argued with a lot of people that it wouldnt work and got downvoted to hell LOL.