FIBA World Cup 2023 (FIRST thread)

[Pokuokic]

The whole national thing has become a joke in basketball and most sports in general, aside from Lithuania/Serbia (mens)/maybe some African teams no other countries use only people of their own in basketball. Why even have a countries competition if your not using the people of your own country.

It's basically a crap verision of Euroleague with a good/elite at times USA teams in general.

[Dino-Might]

Basically, these situations are equivalent to a guy that dates a plain girl because he doesn’t think the hot girl he really wants will date him.

When the hot girl shows interest, he immediately drops the plain girl.

The only reason Banchero wanted to play for Italy was because he didn’t think he would get to play for Team USA.

[Mirotic12]

Honestly, those guys are Americans and shouldn't be playing for any other team except American teams.

Personally, as a Greek... I don't care. These guys have no hope of playing for Team USA, so if they want to play for some other team and that other team is cool with it, then I'm cool with it. The more good players the better, I just want to watch some hoops in the summer.

If a national team or their federation feels that it harms their own players or their spirit of their team or whatever to bring in nationalised players then I respect that too, but that's entirely up to them to decide and draw the line somewhere.

There were rumors in European media that Spain advertised to player agencies for a player that was willing to play for them at EuroBasket 2022, and I might also have this wrong, but if I remember right, I think it was also rumored that player would get a large salary that was like €1 million euros net for the tournament, and they would of course get a Spanish passport. If I remember right, those same rumors also claimed that Lorenzo Brown joined their national team like a week after that.

I might be remembering some of that wrong, and/or some of those claims may have been exaggerated, or even untrue. I've never really seen European sports media, nor FIBA or national federations actually be asked to explain any of this by media.

But if we look at cases like Mike Tobey, Anthony Randolph, Bo McCalebb, Dontaye Draper, etc., they are all similar naturalizations as Lorenzo Brown. And then Thomas Walkup, all of a sudden out of nowhere, is allowed to join Greece's national team. It's just reported out of nowhere, and then like two days later, he's said to be in the national team's player pool and that he has Greek nationality...........

Keep in mind that Rony Seikaly lived in Greece from the time he was a kid, and he learned how to play basketball in Greece, and was even in Panathianikos' senior team. He spoke Greek well, etc. He actually trained and practiced with Greece's senior national team back in the 80s. Like he was actually practicing with Galis, Giannakis, Fasoulas, Christodoulou.......and he made it very clear that he wanted badly to play with Greece's national team. Nope. They would not allow him to do so.

Peja also wanted to play with Greece's national team. He's said multiple times in the media that it was actually a dream of his to play with Greece. But they wouldn't let him play with Greece either............

Think about this -

So back in the 80s, Seikaly, who lived in Greece, spoke Greek, and entirely a Greek basketball product, was not allowed to play with Greece, even though he actually was on the national team's practice squad.

So back in the 90s, Peja, who lived in Greece, who played in Greek clubs, who spoke Greek, who even played for Greece at the junior level in a tournament, was not allowed to play for Greece's senior team.

But now, Thomas Walkup, who was born and raised in USA, and played all his basketball in USA through the NCAA, signs to play with Olympiacos in Greece, and just in his 2nd season with the club, he already has Greek nationality and is registered to play with the national team.

So the problem is that back in the 80s, or even the 90s, the rules were too strict and made no sense honestly. Because of those rules, Seikaly and Peja, whom both wanted to play for Greece, were blocked from doing so. That's too strict and overboard. They should have both been allowed to play for Greece. But now, it has gone too far in how lax the rules are.

These recent cases like Tobey, Randolph, McCalebb, Walkup, Lorenzo Brown, etc. are pretty ridiculous. It's making the national teams look like club teams that are signing free agents.

[Pachinko_]

Yeah I don't sweat it, if you're one player short in a particular position and it makes the whole tournament better then why not. I'm not talking about replacing the whole squad with mercenaries of course, but a dude here and there to round off a team is fine. Especially when we're talking about small countries. I wouldn't do it if I was Serbia for example and had talent coming out my arse, that would be unfair to their young guys. Spain was a weird one I'll admit.

[Mirotic12]

Yeah I don't sweat it, if you're one player short in a particular position and it makes the whole tournament better then why not. I'm not talking about replacing the whole squad with mercenaries of course, but a dude here and there to round off a team is fine. Especially when we're talking about small countries. I wouldn't do it if I was Serbia for example and had talent coming out my arse, that would be unfair to their young guys. Spain was a weird one I'll admit.

Like when Croatia added Dontaye Draper or when Poland added AJ Slaughter, or Bo McCalebb to North Macedonia, etc. There are many such cases like that, probably dozens of such examples. Where those national teams cannot win a medal, not even a bronze, at any major tournament (EuroBasket, World Cup, Olympics), because they are not good enough. Everyone knows that they are not good enough, and even with adding naturalized players to help them, they don't have enough to get even a bronze medal.

But in these cases like Anthony Randolph and Lorenzo Brown, Slovenia and Spain gained gold medals, which they 100% could not have won otherwise.

People go crazy with insane rage, if they think a ref is shady, or their might be some betting connections to anything in a tournament, but if a team gets a gold medal through this naturalization loophole, oh well, you know, that's just the rules.....

Those types of naturalizations really need to be banned. There is zero excuse of any kind whatsoever, for Spain's national program to be doing that.

[Pachinko_]

Like I said man, I don't really give a **** who wins the gold medal. I just want to watch some hoops in the summer. For me it would be a shame if I wouldn't get to watch Luka in big games because he comes from a tiny country where it's realy hard to find a proper center and because of that he doesn't qualify or gets oblliterated in the 1st round.

But that's just me, other people might have different opinions and I respect that.

[CaptainFanchini]

This is not embarrassing for Paolo because the dude is not even Italian. It's more embarrassing that Italians will be booing a guy who chose to play for his home country.

For the bilion time: the problem is not the final choice ... it was what happened in the past 3 years, and the manners of Paolo and his entourage in these last days (with zero communication to the italian basketball federation).

[Mirotic12]

Like I said man, I don't really give a **** who wins the gold medal. I just want to watch some hoops in the summer. For me it would be a shame if I wouldn't get to watch Luka in big games because he comes from a tiny country where it's realy hard to find a proper center and because of that he doesn't qualify or gets oblliterated in the 1st round.

But that's just me, other people might have different opinions and I respect that.

Slovenia consistently had one of the best national teams in the world in the 2000s. They didn't have quite enough to get a medal at a big tournament, but they were regularly in the top 5 best European national teams, in terms of talent. And over the years, they had some very good centers. F u c k a was one of the best Euro centers ever. I know he chose to play for Italy, but he was a Slovenian basketball product. Lorbek and Smodis were among the best centers in EuroLeague during their peaks.

That is precisely why when Slovenia adds players like Randolph and Tobey, that they have a chance at winning medals, or even a gold, as they did in 2017. Those other national teams, like Georgia, North Macedonia, Poland, and such, they can't win medals, even with adding players. It's two entirely different things. One group of teams that need help, and get it (McCalebb with North Macedonia), and another group of teams that don't need help and get it anyway, and win gold medals (Spain/Brown & Slovenia/Randolph).

So it's really not that convincing of an argument.

[Movics]

I’m sure Mirotic chose Spain for the pure love of the country and there were no financial benefits for him to do so. Little ironic reading complaints about players getting citizenships in other countries just to better their national teams with that particular username.

[Mirotic12]

I’m sure Mirotic chose Spain for the pure love of the country and there were no financial benefits for him to do so. Little ironic reading complaints about players getting citizenships in other countries just to better their national teams with that particular username.

I'm not a fan of Mirotic, so there is nothing ironic about it. I have the name of Mirotic12 as a reference to his whole entire career being a choker. He's the 1st or 2nd biggest choker in EuroLeague's history. It's either him or Milos Teodosic.

It's an homage to an all-time GOAT level of choking.

[durden_tyler]

Basically, these situations are equivalent to a guy that dates a plain girl because he doesn’t think the hot girl he really wants will date him.

When the hot girl shows interest, he immediately drops the plain girl.

The only reason Banchero wanted to play for Italy was because he didn’t think he would get to play for Team USA.

Yup, this is basically it. Reaves was courted by Germany (?) too right? These players are the ultimate mercenaries, of course they’d go with the team with money and well, that will provide more money in their careers. There are only very few stars that actually wants to play for the flag, vs a chance to better their brand (more $)

It’s understandable, it IS a business decision above all else. Why would you choose a lesser country if you have an option to go with $?

[UcanUwill]

Yeah I don't sweat it, if you're one player short in a particular position and it makes the whole tournament better then why not. I'm not talking about replacing the whole squad with mercenaries of course, but a dude here and there to round off a team is fine. Especially when we're talking about small countries. I wouldn't do it if I was Serbia for example and had talent coming out my arse, that would be unfair to their young guys. Spain was a weird one I'll admit.

Small countries, like Spain, who end up winning the whole tournament, because the hired good they hired, carried them the whole way and really was MVP of the tournament, but FIBA Europe didnt give it to him, because it would have been plain admition guy just embarrassed the whole European basketball.

I know its a slippery slope as it is, but naturalized hired goons should be outllawed. If you want to play, better go and study that family tree and try to find what you want to find, I know it is silly, but it is better than the guy who has nothing to do with anything plays for the country for contract and exposure reasons and thats it.

[Ducklett]

Basically, these situations are equivalent to a guy that dates a plain girl because he doesn’t think the hot girl he really wants will date him.

When the hot girl shows interest, he immediately drops the plain girl.

The only reason Banchero wanted to play for Italy was because he didn’t think he would get to play for Team USA.

That might check out if there wasn't story after story of Grant Hill heavily recruiting him to team USA for months.

[Mirotic12]

We have many posters here claiming that USA does not care about the World Cup, that it doesn't care about the players of other national teams, that it can send a C Team and totally dominate and destroy all the competition, blah, blah, blah........

Yet, there are all kinds of reports that they were very heavily recruiting Banchero and trying to convince him not to play for Italy, and that they are doing the same thing with Embid, and trying to convince him not to play for France. And not just for them not to play with Italy and France, but for them to also play with USA.

So basically, there is a 100% verified fantasy land that exists in some of the posts here. The actual reality is more like USA Basketball being seriously worried that they would not get Banchero and Embid to play for them.

[Mirotic12]

Small countries, like Spain, who end up winning the whole tournament, because the hired good they hired, carried them the whole way and really was MVP of the tournament, but FIBA Europe didnt give it to him, because it would have been plain admition guy just embarrassed the whole European basketball.

I know its a slippery slope as it is, but naturalized hired goons should be outllawed. If you want to play, better go and study that family tree and try to find what you want to find, I know it is silly, but it is better than the guy who has nothing to do with anything plays for the country for contract and exposure reasons and thats it.

The voting system that FIBA uses in recent years for these tournament awards is really horrible. They are often putting guys in the all tournament team, even if their team didn't make the semis, and even if they somehow failed to come through for their national team, when it mattered in elimination games. That's pretty freaking stupid, when you consider that it's just a small amount of games being played. And on the other hand, sometimes they leave players off the all tournament team, that like actually won a medal at the tournament, led their team in scoring, were the best players in medal round deciding games, etc. It's really amateurish how they do the awards. It's basically just which player is more famous, which player plays in NBA or not, which player has more clicks and likes on social media, which player is playing the tournament as a member of a host team, etc.

[mcmurphy]

F u c k a was one of the best Euro centers ever. I know he chose to play for Italy, but he was a Slovenian basketball product.

F.u.c.k.a born a few of km from the Italian border, played continuosly in Italy from 17 to 31 years old, speaking italian, living in Italy, with Italian daughters who play for Italy is compared to Lorenzo Brown, Randolph or BoMcCalebb... it's un insult.

[Mirotic12]

F u c k a was one of the best Euro centers ever. I know he chose to play for Italy, but he was a Slovenian basketball product.

F.u.c.k.a born a few of km from the Italian border, played continuosly in Italy from 17 to 31 years old, speaking italian, living in Italy, with Italian daughters who play for Italy is compared to Lorenzo Brown, Randolph or BoMcCalebb... it's un insult.

I never compared him to them, and never said anything bad about him playing for Italy. Never once even mentioned him as being naturalized, or anything. You obviously misunderstood what I posted. Actually, I probably should have said he was starting in Yugoslavia. That's more accurate. But I wasn't meaning criticizing him playing with Italy.

[knicksfan974]

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2023/news/fiba-basketball-world-cup-2023-power-rankings-volume-one-who-are-the-favorites

First Power Rankings by FIBA for the World Cup. Good to see Finland getting respect at #11, after a top10 of basketball powerhouses, leaving behind countries such as Italy and Lithuania.

[Mirotic12]

What in the hell?

#15 Lithuania
#14 Japan
#13 Italy
#12 Dominican Republic
#11 Finland
#10 Brazil

Are they trolling us?

[LuDux1]

Yeah, Lithuania is way too high (slightly green font)