Dirk/Jokic vs KG/Duncan

rand · Post #1 » by **rand** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:13 am

2011 Dirk / 2023 Jokic vs 2004 KG / 2003 Duncan. Which pair would you take for the modern NBA?

One_and_Done · Post #2 » by **One_and_Done** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:21 am

Duncan & KG are better than either of Dirk or Jokic so it's an easy call.

No-more-rings · Post #3 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:37 am

I just think that kind of defense is hard to pass up with KG/Duncan, and they’re both still very good on offense even if they aren’t exactly elite. Even on offense, what kind of frontcourt today is going to defend a Duncan/KG on offense?

dygaction · Post #4 » by **dygaction** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:25 am

Dirk and Jokic, ultimate shooting and spacing for modern offense.
KG and TD are going to be atg defensively, but their spacing is going to be a problem.

frica · Post #5 » by **frica** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:34 am

dygaction wrote:Dirk and Jokic, ultimate shooting and spacing for modern offense.
KG and TD are going to be atg defensively, but their spacing is going to be a problem.

Would their spacing really be a problem?
Garnett still has more range than most top 10 active PFs.

Duncan's range is a bit worse, but I don't think it's that bad for a center either.

dygaction · Post #6 » by **dygaction** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:41 am

frica wrote:
dygaction wrote:Dirk and Jokic, ultimate shooting and spacing for modern offense.
KG and TD are going to be atg defensively, but their spacing is going to be a problem.

Would their spacing really be a problem?
Garnett still has more range than most top 10 active PFs.

Duncan's range is a bit worse, but I don't think it's that bad for a center either.

It is really 3pts are worthy of 1.5x 2pointers. A team can afford to have one player without 3pt range nowadays.

70sFan · Post #7 » by **70sFan** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:45 am

dygaction wrote:
frica wrote:
dygaction wrote:Dirk and Jokic, ultimate shooting and spacing for modern offense.
KG and TD are going to be atg defensively, but their spacing is going to be a problem.

Would their spacing really be a problem?
Garnett still has more range than most top 10 active PFs.

Duncan's range is a bit worse, but I don't think it's that bad for a center either.

It is really 3pts are worthy of 1.5x 2pointers. A team can afford to have one player without 3pt range nowadays.

Warriors won the title last year with two bigs that were clearly worse shooters than Duncan, let alone Garnett.

Post #8 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:54 am

Garnett would should some absolutely absurd percentages if teams decided they don't have to guard him out to 20+ feet.

Too much connective tissue and bases covered with Duncan/Garnett. Very complimentary on both ends as well.

Colbinii · Post #9 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:05 pm

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
frica wrote:Would their spacing really be a problem?
Garnett still has more range than most top 10 active PFs.

Duncan's range is a bit worse, but I don't think it's that bad for a center either.

It is really 3pts are worthy of 1.5x 2pointers. A team can afford to have one player without 3pt range nowadays.

Warriors won the title last year with two bigs that were clearly worse shooters than Duncan, let alone Garnett.

The team they played in the Finals had White [30% 3P] and Smart [33% 3P] as well.

The Heat this year played Butler/Bam together.

Post #10 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:16 pm

You literally can't go wrong here lol. I mean these are absurd duos and you are a heavy favorite either way.

dygaction · Post #11 » by **dygaction** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:26 pm

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
frica wrote:Would their spacing really be a problem?
Garnett still has more range than most top 10 active PFs.

Duncan's range is a bit worse, but I don't think it's that bad for a center either.

It is really 3pts are worthy of 1.5x 2pointers. A team can afford to have one player without 3pt range nowadays.

Warriors won the title last year with two bigs that were clearly worse shooters than Duncan, let alone Garnett.

Not because of the two bigs nor did they commanded super max.

70sFan · Post #12 » by **70sFan** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:59 pm

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
It is really 3pts are worthy of 1.5x 2pointers. A team can afford to have one player without 3pt range nowadays.

Warriors won the title last year with two bigs that were clearly worse shooters than Duncan, let alone Garnett.

Not because of the two bigs nor did they commanded super max.

I am quite sure the Warriors wouldn't be close to making the finals without Green and he's their 2nd best player - so yeah, it was "because of" him.

dygaction · Post #13 » by **dygaction** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:34 pm

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:Warriors won the title last year with two bigs that were clearly worse shooters than Duncan, let alone Garnett.

Not because of the two bigs nor did they commanded super max.

I am quite sure the Warriors wouldn't be close to making the finals without Green and he's their 2nd best player - so yeah, it was "because of" him.

but you should assume Duncan and KG be your best players, not 2nd or 3rd. Also, those two bigs came cheap, and we should assume KG and TD taking supermax, right?

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:28 pm

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Not because of the two bigs nor did they commanded super max.

I am quite sure the Warriors wouldn't be close to making the finals without Green and he's their 2nd best player - so yeah, it was "because of" him.

but you should assume Duncan and KG be your best players, not 2nd or 3rd. Also, those two bigs came cheap, and we should assume KG and TD taking supermax, right?

Do you have any reason to believe that shooting is more expensive in today's league than other aspect of the game?

ronnymac2 · Post #15 » by **ronnymac2** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:39 am

I don't think it's insane to take Dirk/Jokic, but to take them because of 3's is hilarious. Dirk had more playoff success as his 3-point rate decreased, and Jokic (and his team) shot a modest amount of 3-pointers relative to their 2023 environment, yet still yielded the best offense. So if you're going to take Dirk/Jokic - which, again, is not unreasonable - you should really be highlighting other things they do.

Personally, I would take KG/Duncan. You're basically guaranteed to have the best defense ever and a more than competent offense what with their passing, IQ, screen-setting, and ability to soak up USG% if need be. They synergize better on offense than Dirk/Joker on defense. Dirk and Joker basically have similar strengths/weaknesses on defenses, so even though I don't think either is a poor defender, the lack of synergy on defense hurts them in this comparison.

Medbrat · Post #16 » by **Medbrat** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:14 am

Kg is easily the worst player here, his PO resume is abysmal in comparison to the other three. Depends on how you view Tim vs Jokic.

70sFan · Post #17 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:06 pm

Medbrat wrote:Kg is easily the worst player here, his PO resume is abysmal in comparison to the other three. Depends on how you view Tim vs Jokic.

How is Garnett's postseason resume weaker than Jokic so far? Or even Dirk?

OhayoKD · Post #18 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:15 pm

KG/Duncan Clobbers.

Dirk is the weak-link here and this is compounded with a dramatic degree of overlap not really there for team two.

1993Playoffs · Post #19 » by **1993Playoffs** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:38 pm

Dirk is clearly the worst player here. You have to take Duncan KG

Medbrat · Post #20 » by **Medbrat** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:12 pm

70sFan wrote:
Medbrat wrote:Kg is easily the worst player here, his PO resume is abysmal in comparison to the other three. Depends on how you view Tim vs Jokic.

How is Garnett's postseason resume weaker than Jokic so far? Or even Dirk?

Open basketball-reference and look.
Jokic doesn't have the volume yet, but his averages and accomplishments are through the roof, FAR ahead of KGs. I mean winning a chip and FMVP without all-stars (and HOFs lol) is already a lot more impressive than kg's weak crap of a PO resume. Jason Terry ahs better PO resume than kg.

Which pair?