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Draft Grades

Moderators: fatlever, JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben

How do you grade our draft?

A
12
32%
B
16
42%
C
4
11%
D
2
5%
F
4
11%
 
Total votes: 38

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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#61 » by wilson115 » Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:05 pm

LofJ wrote:
JDR720 wrote:Gave it a B.

Miller is fine.

Not that impressed with the rest. I doubt any of them are better than what we already have, but there is some merit in quantity over quality.


Mitch had a sit-down talk about the draft with Hornets Hive Cast and he specifically mentioned this (linked below).

He said that not everyone you draft is going to become an NBA player, but there's value in taking as many swings as possible. He talked about a lot of things. That Miller was the best player on their board, scouting in Europe, watching Nnaji play, roster management, etc. It's a good listen, Mitch is much better in this type of setting as opposed to standing at a podium.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6N2O9cYak0uKaAS8VSiUg8?si=zeV4CKidR7uabxkFiobhfw

"In the game today wings they're just so valuable. A wing typically could be a guy that plays a small forward, the 3 position, but, over the years, it's kind of transformed into a player that, if able, can guard and play several positions. A big wing who's athletic, who has multi-level skills, and can move his feet, can defend, has great quickness, can be really valuable. A guy that can bring the ball up the court, a guy that can defend the 2, that can play the 3 and outquicken other players, and, when you switch, which is what everybody does in our game ... in our game today, almost everything's a switch, it makes it that much more valuable to have a wing with that kind of diversity ... the shooting skill, could really improve our percentages, can playmake, grab a rebound, bring the ball down the court, attack the rim or make a left-handed pass into the right corner or a left-handed pass into the left quarter. When you're around him he's kind of quiet and doesn't say a whole lot, but a lot of that's being 19 but on the court the kid competes. There's a lot of good players in the draft, we felt that he had the best chance to grow and have the best career out of everybody else we considered. It's very possible there are 2 or 3, 4 players that are equally impactful on the NBA 8-10 years from now, and that would be great. But, right now, that's the guy we wanted."

"A big part of his upside is being able to improve his strength, I was talking to him today, y'know, you'll have to guard Lebron James. And Lebron James is about 6'8" but he weighs about 260 pounds. Okay, heh, and you're about 6'8" and you weigh 190 pounds, right, so, this is a totally different league. But there's a lot of upside there. If he can put on 10-15 pounds in the next 6-8 months and get that much stronger, that's where we'll see upside. Now of course, just by repetition alone he should become a better shooter, by playing in the game, getting coached, maturing, his skill level will continue to improve. He competes, I'm not worried about him not competing, that's a key component. But one of the biggest upside components really is letting his body naturally get stronger ... by getting in the weight room and working with our strength and conditioning people."

"We didn't draft Brandon because of fit, but it's hard to ignore when you're trying to build a team, whether it's a free agent, or a trade, drafting a player, how is this player gonna fit into what we already have. I don't wanna sit here and say it wasn't a factor, but it wasn't the factor and it wasn't why we drafted him. We feel over time, once he matures and gets stronger, puts on some weight, he has the most upside considering his position in the NBA and his natural instincts on the court. He just has a feel, put a ball in his hands and you can just see he knows what he's doing."
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#62 » by Braggins » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:45 am

I might bump my grade up to a D if Nnaji is actually coming over.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#63 » by vexco » Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:15 am

Braggins wrote:I might bump my grade up to a D if Nnaji is actually coming over.


The fact yall act like Brandon Miller is Anthony Bennet and Scoot is prime Russ is so **** weird.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#64 » by JMAC3 » Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:51 pm

wilson115 wrote:
LofJ wrote:
JDR720 wrote:Gave it a B.

Miller is fine.

Not that impressed with the rest. I doubt any of them are better than what we already have, but there is some merit in quantity over quality.


Mitch had a sit-down talk about the draft with Hornets Hive Cast and he specifically mentioned this (linked below).

He said that not everyone you draft is going to become an NBA player, but there's value in taking as many swings as possible. He talked about a lot of things. That Miller was the best player on their board, scouting in Europe, watching Nnaji play, roster management, etc. It's a good listen, Mitch is much better in this type of setting as opposed to standing at a podium.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6N2O9cYak0uKaAS8VSiUg8?si=zeV4CKidR7uabxkFiobhfw

"In the game today wings they're just so valuable. A wing typically could be a guy that plays a small forward, the 3 position, but, over the years, it's kind of transformed into a player that, if able, can guard and play several positions. A big wing who's athletic, who has multi-level skills, and can move his feet, can defend, has great quickness, can be really valuable. A guy that can bring the ball up the court, a guy that can defend the 2, that can play the 3 and outquicken other players, and, when you switch, which is what everybody does in our game ... in our game today, almost everything's a switch, it makes it that much more valuable to have a wing with that kind of diversity ... the shooting skill, could really improve our percentages, can playmake, grab a rebound, bring the ball down the court, attack the rim or make a left-handed pass into the right corner or a left-handed pass into the left quarter. When you're around him he's kind of quiet and doesn't say a whole lot, but a lot of that's being 19 but on the court the kid competes. There's a lot of good players in the draft, we felt that he had the best chance to grow and have the best career out of everybody else we considered. It's very possible there are 2 or 3, 4 players that are equally impactful on the NBA 8-10 years from now, and that would be great. But, right now, that's the guy we wanted."

"A big part of his upside is being able to improve his strength, I was talking to him today, y'know, you'll have to guard Lebron James. And Lebron James is about 6'8" but he weighs about 260 pounds. Okay, heh, and you're about 6'8" and you weigh 190 pounds, right, so, this is a totally different league. But there's a lot of upside there. If he can put on 10-15 pounds in the next 6-8 months and get that much stronger, that's where we'll see upside. Now of course, just by repetition alone he should become a better shooter, by playing in the game, getting coached, maturing, his skill level will continue to improve. He competes, I'm not worried about him not competing, that's a key component. But one of the biggest upside components really is letting his body naturally get stronger ... by getting in the weight room and working with our strength and conditioning people."

"We didn't draft Brandon because of fit, but it's hard to ignore when you're trying to build a team, whether it's a free agent, or a trade, drafting a player, how is this player gonna fit into what we already have. I don't wanna sit here and say it wasn't a factor, but it wasn't the factor and it wasn't why we drafted him. We feel over time, once he matures and gets stronger, puts on some weight, he has the most upside considering his position in the NBA and his natural instincts on the court. He just has a feel, put a ball in his hands and you can just see he knows what he's doing."


Mitch makes a bunch of good points here. Nice to see he is thinking about all these angles and not just going with Miller because he had a good workout or saw him play a good game live.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#65 » by JMAC3 » Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:04 pm

wilson115 wrote:


Vecenie does give us our flowers for how well we have drafted in the 2nd round, said we probably have the best track record in the NBA since Mitch took over.
Us finding Nick, McDaniels, Devonte, Martin, McGowens, Thor is pretty incredible when you look at tweet below.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#66 » by BeesWax » Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:15 am

vexco wrote:
Braggins wrote:I might bump my grade up to a D if Nnaji is actually coming over.


The fact yall act like Brandon Miller is Anthony Bennet and Scoot is prime Russ is so **** weird.

Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#67 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:57 pm

BeesWax wrote:
vexco wrote:
Braggins wrote:I might bump my grade up to a D if Nnaji is actually coming over.


The fact yall act like Brandon Miller is Anthony Bennet and Scoot is prime Russ is so **** weird.

Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.


Scoot got better in his big games? What counts for that. The game vs Wemby? Lol. So one game. In 2 years of basketball.

Bennett played at UNLV, not in the best conference in college basketball. Miller played a ton of meaningful college games, compared to Scoot playing 2 years of games that nobody cared if they won or lost.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#68 » by BeesWax » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:09 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
BeesWax wrote:
vexco wrote:
The fact yall act like Brandon Miller is Anthony Bennet and Scoot is prime Russ is so **** weird.

Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.


Scoot got better in his big games? What counts for that. The game vs Wemby? Lol. So one game. In 2 years of basketball.

Bennett played at UNLV, not in the best conference in college basketball. Miller played a ton of meaningful college games, compared to Scoot playing 2 years of games that nobody cared if they won or lost.

I said if anything and yes that was his biggest game of the year and he played very well.

Miller still fell apart against good teams like Bennett. He fell apart more often because he played more good teams than Bennett did. If I remember correctly Bennett only had two big down games but they were the two most obvious good opponents for him. I get you love Miller but there still has never been a good explanation for why people ignore the fact he fell apart against good opponents. I hope he learns to fix the issue but it is scary. You loved him so much I figure I missed something so I went back to watch more and I still don't see how he is automatically going to be good. I feel like he will struggle to adjust to the athletes he is about to see. I think he can be a spot up shooter until he adjusts but then you drafted Grady Dick at 2 basically.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#69 » by vexco » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:22 pm

BeesWax wrote:
vexco wrote:
Braggins wrote:I might bump my grade up to a D if Nnaji is actually coming over.


The fact yall act like Brandon Miller is Anthony Bennet and Scoot is prime Russ is so **** weird.

Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.


Bennett scored single digits 7 times against not good teams. He didn't play any good teams that year. Pretty sure 1 team he played against finished in the top 25 at seasons end. That draft class, outside of Giannis was absolutely dreadful.

Miller was inconsistent against better competition, sure. He put 36 on Gonzaga, 24 on Memphis, etc. He also stunk it up a few games. To be expected from a freshman.

"I know what Scoot is". A 6'2" guard with no discernable offensive bag, who doesn't finish at the rim well and doesn't get to the line very much for a player whose entire game is predicated on athleticism? Not a good defender. Great passer and ball handler. A "dog" who shut his season down 12 games early and didn't contribute to winning when he did play.

I assume you'd have a better opinion of Miller if he sat out the final 13 games of Alabama's season with his injured groin?
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#70 » by LofJ » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:22 pm

Brandon Miller was the first freshman in SEC history to win Freshman of the Year, Conference Tournament MVP, and Conference Player of the Year. He isn't a late lottery level prospect, that's just a laughable assertion.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#71 » by vexco » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:34 pm

BeesWax wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BeesWax wrote:Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.


Scoot got better in his big games? What counts for that. The game vs Wemby? Lol. So one game. In 2 years of basketball.

Bennett played at UNLV, not in the best conference in college basketball. Miller played a ton of meaningful college games, compared to Scoot playing 2 years of games that nobody cared if they won or lost.

I said if anything and yes that was his biggest game of the year and he played very well.

Miller still fell apart against good teams like Bennett. He fell apart more often because he played more good teams than Bennett did. If I remember correctly Bennett only had two big down games but they were the two most obvious good opponents for him. I get you love Miller but there still has never been a good explanation for why people ignore the fact he fell apart against good opponents. I hope he learns to fix the issue but it is scary. You loved him so much I figure I missed something so I went back to watch more and I still don't see how he is automatically going to be good. I feel like he will struggle to adjust to the athletes he is about to see. I think he can be a spot up shooter until he adjusts but then you drafted Grady Dick at 2 basically.


Top 25 games:

24 against Mich St
18 against Uconn(poor shooting)
14 against UNC(not good)
8 against Houston(not good)
24 against Memphis
36 against Gonzaga
19 against Mississippi St
14 against Arkansas, shot 75%, blew them out.
15 against Tennessee(poor shooting)
19 against A&M(poor shooting)
20 against Missou
23 against A&M.

Those were the teams ranked at the time of playing.

That's not "falling apart". That's pretty inconsistent but 5 poor games doesn't really constitute falling apart against good teams as a rule.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#72 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:39 pm

BeesWax wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BeesWax wrote:Miller had the same struggles as Bennett in college. When he went against good players he struggled. His stats against the top 50 teams is enough to be scary. I don't think Scoot is prime Russ but I know what Scoot is. He was the same against everyone, if anything he got better in big games and not worse.

I gave the draft a C because I actually liked the two guards we picked later and I don't know about the C. Lots of physical gifts but incredibly raw. Miller to me is hard to grade positively when I think he is basically the same level player as the 13th pick.


Scoot got better in his big games? What counts for that. The game vs Wemby? Lol. So one game. In 2 years of basketball.

Bennett played at UNLV, not in the best conference in college basketball. Miller played a ton of meaningful college games, compared to Scoot playing 2 years of games that nobody cared if they won or lost.

I said if anything and yes that was his biggest game of the year and he played very well.

Miller still fell apart against good teams like Bennett. He fell apart more often because he played more good teams than Bennett did. If I remember correctly Bennett only had two big down games but they were the two most obvious good opponents for him. I get you love Miller but there still has never been a good explanation for why people ignore the fact he fell apart against good opponents. I hope he learns to fix the issue but it is scary. You loved him so much I figure I missed something so I went back to watch more and I still don't see how he is automatically going to be good. I feel like he will struggle to adjust to the athletes he is about to see. I think he can be a spot up shooter until he adjusts but then you drafted Grady Dick at 2 basically.


Miller played at the highest level on AAU circuit, was a 5 star, played in Jordan brand and Mcdonalds all american game, had offers to go to Gleague Ignite, offer to Kentucky... would of probably went first overall in last years draft. but yeahhhh he is just a spot up shooter..... gtfoh
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#73 » by Snidely FC » Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:49 pm

No one talks about the 2nd game in which Scoot faced Wemba. He and Wemba knocked knees and Scoot was held out for the rest of the game. So his stat line in game 2 vs Wemba was 4 mins, 0-3

Kevin Pelton points out Scoot's statistical weanknesses:
Henderson's per-game stats (16.5 points, 6.5 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game in regular-season play) looked good enough, but they masked a .510 true shooting percentage as compared to a league average of .581.

The improved 3-point shooting that Henderson showcased in an exhibition against Wembanyama and Metropolitans 92 was nowhere to be found as he shot 28% in regular-season play.


Also, in half of Scoot's regular season games he had a 37% or lower field goal %

Why is it fair to point to below average stats in a subset of Miller's games but not Scoot's?

Maybe it's wiser to recognize that stats are a smoothing mechanism meant to give a clearer picture over a larger data set?

Or, better yet, recognize stats as a filter to select two candidates from which to choose based on other criteria. In this case, as management has stated, a preference for the 6'9 wing archetype over the 6'2 PG archetype?
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#74 » by Snidely FC » Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:56 pm

In December, Brandon went 0-for-8 from the floor against then-No. 1 Houston only to sink all six of his free-throw attempts in the final minute to seal a 71-65 road win for Alabama. After getting shutout in the first half at Arkansas last month, he exploded for 14 points after the break, hitting a pair of 3s in the final five minutes to close out an 84-69 victory.


As I have previously pointed out, in Game 6 of this year's NBA playoffs, Jayson Tatum was 8-22 including 0-8 from three but led his team to victory on 15-15 free throws. Jimmy Butler was 5-21 in the same game but 12-14 from free throws and made several miraculous plays in the final minute to nearly steal the game.

That's why this argument that a guy is bad at basketball because he is having a statistically bad shooting night against a certain type of team is so specious

I am trying to get the Miller axe-people to see the forest for the trees. Teams need a guy who can win them games even when they are having a bad night. That's often what makes these guys studs.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#75 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Jul 6, 2023 2:29 am

disoblige wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BeesWax wrote:I said if anything and yes that was his biggest game of the year and he played very well.

Miller still fell apart against good teams like Bennett. He fell apart more often because he played more good teams than Bennett did. If I remember correctly Bennett only had two big down games but they were the two most obvious good opponents for him. I get you love Miller but there still has never been a good explanation for why people ignore the fact he fell apart against good opponents. I hope he learns to fix the issue but it is scary. You loved him so much I figure I missed something so I went back to watch more and I still don't see how he is automatically going to be good. I feel like he will struggle to adjust to the athletes he is about to see. I think he can be a spot up shooter until he adjusts but then you drafted Grady Dick at 2 basically.


Miller played at the highest level on AAU circuit, was a 5 star, played in Jordan brand and Mcdonalds all american game, had offers to go to Gleague Ignite, offer to Kentucky... would of probably went first overall in last years draft. but yeahhhh he is just a spot up shooter..... gtfoh


miller not doing great against nba scrubs in summer league. Losing 2 games by huge margins. He played the most minutes both games. Seems like a good role player than franchise player.


Okay.
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#76 » by luciano-davidwesley » Thu Jul 6, 2023 2:32 am

disoblige wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
BeesWax wrote:I said if anything and yes that was his biggest game of the year and he played very well.

Miller still fell apart against good teams like Bennett. He fell apart more often because he played more good teams than Bennett did. If I remember correctly Bennett only had two big down games but they were the two most obvious good opponents for him. I get you love Miller but there still has never been a good explanation for why people ignore the fact he fell apart against good opponents. I hope he learns to fix the issue but it is scary. You loved him so much I figure I missed something so I went back to watch more and I still don't see how he is automatically going to be good. I feel like he will struggle to adjust to the athletes he is about to see. I think he can be a spot up shooter until he adjusts but then you drafted Grady Dick at 2 basically.


Miller played at the highest level on AAU circuit, was a 5 star, played in Jordan brand and Mcdonalds all american game, had offers to go to Gleague Ignite, offer to Kentucky... would of probably went first overall in last years draft. but yeahhhh he is just a spot up shooter..... gtfoh


miller not doing great against nba scrubs in summer league. Losing 2 games by huge margins. He played the most minutes both games. Seems like a good role player than franchise player.

Scoot stan?
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Re: Draft Grades 

Post#77 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Jul 6, 2023 2:43 am

disoblige wrote:to be fair Miller had 25Per in college and scoot 18.5. I am just hoping he is not another kwame tradegy,


It's typically not a good idea to get on an opposing teams board taking a **** on their draft pick.

I mean 3 years ago Raptor fans said Flynn was better than Lamelo. Stop.
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