Shams: Bulls extend Vuc (3/60)

Betta Bulleavit · Post #101 » by **Betta Bulleavit** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:31 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I'm a Vuc fan and think he's significantly underrated on this board. That said, we have some big issues on this team that need to be resolved and can't just come back with the exact same team.

Co-sign!

MrFortune3 · Post #102 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:33 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I'm a Vuc fan and think he's significantly underrated on this board. That said, we have some big issues on this team that need to be resolved and can't just come back with the exact same team.

The plus side is, we know what the core is and now it's just about building around them properly.

Shooting and defense is the need in FA. Unless we sign Coby to some insane extension...the Bulls will still have flexibility in the next few years. Of course, DeRozan and Williams could be extended and change that but neither should be massive.

Chicago-Bull-E · Post #103 » by **Chicago-Bull-E** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:33 pm

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

The Force. · Post #104 » by **The Force.** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:33 pm

This was to be expected, if for nothing else so that AKME could save face.

nomorezorro · Post #105 » by **nomorezorro** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:39 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:The plus side is, we know what the core is and now it's just about building around them properly.

Shooting and defense is the need in FA.

we knew this last year and signed andre drummond and goran dragic, so.

jnrjr79 · Post #106 » by **jnrjr79** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:40 pm

DuckIII wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i'm kind of shocked at how many people are citing raw stats in favor of vucevic,

No you’re not. It’s the only thing anyone ever cites to pump Vuc.

No, it isn't. Just this morning, people were posting about his fast decision-making stats. Yesterday I was posting about his post-up efficiency.

This team is annoying af right now, but Vooch is a pretty good player and not some example of counting stats being terribly misleading. Hell, if anything, his counting stats probably underrate him a bit, given the way he has accepted a lesser scoring role than he had in Orlando.

step · Post #107 » by **step** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:42 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:The Bulls should have enough money to get a shooting forward and a guard.

We don't have cap space...

Tetlak · Post #108 » by **Tetlak** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:43 pm

step wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:The Bulls should have enough money to get a shooting forward and a guard.

We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

MrFortune3 · Post #109 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:45 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:The plus side is, we know what the core is and now it's just about building around them properly.

Shooting and defense is the need in FA.

we knew this last year and signed andre drummond and goran dragic, so.

Hopefully we learned from that. Much like they learned to hire a shooting coach since we didn't make much progress there.

MrFortune3 · Post #110 » by **MrFortune3** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:46 pm

step wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:The Bulls should have enough money to get a shooting forward and a guard.

We don't have cap space...

That's what the MLE is for. 12.2 mil will get some quality players if used correctly.

OldSchoolNoBull · Post #111 » by **OldSchoolNoBull** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:47 pm

Not sure what letting him walk would've done for us(unless we were blowing it up completely and tanking), but I do wish we would've found a S&T for him.

step · Post #112 » by **step** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:48 pm

Tetlak wrote:
step wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:The Bulls should have enough money to get a shooting forward and a guard.

We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

Correct. However the DPE has conditions... it cannot be split into two. And it's not $10M to get anyone you want, it's a player in the final season of a contract. That narrows down the list of people.

Post #113 » by **Michael Jackson** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:52 pm

Wingy wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:
Wingy wrote:
I see it pretty much the same. I think he’s underrated by some as well, but I’m with you on the point that this is a raw salary reduction during a time that’s about to hit some wild inflation.

Overall, I don’t like it, but I also don’t hate it. I guess I understand it. I’ll like it less if the 3rd year isn’t a team option…so guessing I’m going to like it less as I imagine it’ll be fully guaranteed.

Like the Bulls, it’s thoroughly mediocre.

To me, Vuc is as overrated as he is underrated. You have some people saying he's a garbage player and then you have others saying he's an all-star caliber double-double machine. Neither of these things is true, the truth is somewhere in the middle, but it's definitely interesting how there's such a wide discrepancy in how he's viewed.

Undoubtedly true, but I think there are more in the garbage camp than the all-star caliber d-d camp.

Let’s be honest. He’s largely a victim of the VP of BBall paying out 2 firsts that he didn’t protect enough. If he did top 8 protection and we got Franz, or another good player taken after him, the level of Vuc hate would largely disappear.

Sure if we got Franz, we wouldn't have had the pick the following year and draft the great Dalen Terry.

Post #114 » by **chitownsports4ever** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:52 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

ChettheJet · Post #115 » by **ChettheJet** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:54 pm

There seems like a tidal wave of players, bigger names and better than Vuc just resigning so this isn't a strange move.

I'm not angry that they brought him back like some, there are no FA centers worth a hoot. You're not going to get a center back if you S&T him. So all you could hope for would be a Caruso or DeRozan trade to bring one back. I still don't know if there's a deal for either of them out there.

My first move would have been to trade DeRozan which is still possible, trade Caruso, move Vuc and last trade Zach. It doesn't appear anybody will give up anything for Zach using his contract as an excuse. Now I wonder if there's no way to trade DeRozan until the deadline and some team that under performed in the first half decides they need help. To me they blew the 1st half of the season by not getting him. I looks like it's going to be the same with AC.

I guess the plan is to go with White as the PG, which I can live with. But this team is done and I just give up if they don't start Williams at the PF or can't find a legit PF and end up starting Caruso there again. Somebody has to be forced to see a 6-5 guard is not your PF.

drosestruts · Post #116 » by **drosestruts** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:55 pm

step wrote:
Tetlak wrote:
step wrote:We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

Correct. However the DPE has conditions... it cannot be split into two. And it's not $10M to get anyone you want, it's a player in the final season of a contract. That narrows down the list of people.

you can acquire a player in the last year of their contract use the DPE via trade or waiver claim (example: claiming Taurean Prince off waivers or trading for Monte Morris)

you can also sign a player to a 1-year deal up to $10m (example pay Jevon Carter more money in 1-year then he's made in his whole career)

This certainly narrows the list but it's still a list full of good options

Post #117 » by **Michael Jackson** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:59 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

None of those. It would get you half of Rudy Gobert lol. It could have gotten Beal but we needed to add more expiring salary, in this case I guess would have been DDR. Wouldn't have to be DDR but it would need to be cap clearing around that money. Theoretically though OPJ was the salary filler in that case and in this hypothetical you can add OPJ...

Post #118 » by **chitownsports4ever** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:02 pm

step wrote:
Tetlak wrote:
step wrote:We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

Correct. However the DPE has conditions... it cannot be split into two. And it's not $10M to get anyone you want, it's a player in the final season of a contract. That narrows down the list of people.

They could also use it to sign a free agent to a one year deal

Last year Divincenzo took a 2 year 9 million dollar deal with the Warriors so if we had the DPE and found someone in a similar situation we offer them the flat 10 million for one year if they ball out we have the MLE to offer next year and they will be a free agent again as well .

kodo · Post #119 » by **kodo** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:05 pm

Pretty much what I expected, and the correct move since the alternative option is to just let him walk in UFA.
You can get a better defensive center for less money, but we're way over cap. It's either Vuc or let him walk for nothing. And we need the MLE for a Lonzo replacement, or a Coby replacement if Coby is promoted to starter. MLE probably also has to cover a defensive PF/C DJ replacement.

If the 3rd year is not fully guaranteed, it's a good deal. I expect to blow this all up once we treadmill for another season.

boozapalooza · Post #120 » by **boozapalooza** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:05 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

Five 1sts was the price for Rudy Gobert, three for Dejounte Murray. We would be happy to get a package like that for Zach…a good young player and 2 1sts.

Don’t forget we salary dumped Otto Porter in the trade too. Not defending it, but its out of touch to think that package could command a serious superstar.