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WRONGdrsd wrote:eyriq wrote:Also, who else thinks Black is our best point guard right now, day 1?
Rookie PGs are always awful. Not only is Black 4th in "best PG" rankings, he might be 5th or 6th behind the PG skills of G-Harris and F-Wagner.
Black's role this season is not to provide positive minutes; it is to grow his game. He will be an absolute TO machine.
pepe1991 wrote:jezzerinho wrote:pepe1991 wrote:
Because SG is easiest position to play
Ffs Pepe, one of these days i'll stuff that laughing emoji up your tailpipe.
Who said anything abput it being easier?
A guy who struggles to see the court, not dribble it off his foot, run pnr and not turn it over is not exactly your natural candidate for PG, regardless of his other abilities. To everyone else, that should be obvious.
Maybe he got better
Shooting guard nowdays isn't very talented position. JR Smith, KCP and Danny Green started on 6 championship teams
I mean , whole Suggs thing to me comes down to investment. Would Magic invest 5th overall pick if they knew he can't play PG? No. Would anybody else invest top 10 pick with that information? Probably not.
If he isn't PG i don't see much reasons to keep him and play him at other positions
I would rather package him, own, Nuggets pick, Jett Howard for Devin Vassell , or buy low on Norman Powell/ Trent , go after Monk or Huerter than enter playoffs and have high-kick in face of reality once Suggs shows he really can't play SG against serious defense for same reasons you mentioned above ( kicking ball off his foot, crushing in paint without purpose, or simply throwing bricks in air).
I'm also not sure he, himself, wants to play SG long term. Most players who view themselfs as PG hate idea of being moved off ball (Chris Paul, Harden, Lonzo Ball to name few ). Jrue Holiday once said he hates to play SG or PG ? I can't recall witch one
jezzerinho wrote:pepe1991 wrote:jezzerinho wrote:
Ffs Pepe, one of these days i'll stuff that laughing emoji up your tailpipe.
Who said anything abput it being easier?
A guy who struggles to see the court, not dribble it off his foot, run pnr and not turn it over is not exactly your natural candidate for PG, regardless of his other abilities. To everyone else, that should be obvious.
Maybe he got better
Shooting guard nowdays isn't very talented position. JR Smith, KCP and Danny Green started on 6 championship teams
I mean , whole Suggs thing to me comes down to investment. Would Magic invest 5th overall pick if they knew he can't play PG? No. Would anybody else invest top 10 pick with that information? Probably not.
If he isn't PG i don't see much reasons to keep him and play him at other positions
I would rather package him, own, Nuggets pick, Jett Howard for Devin Vassell , or buy low on Norman Powell/ Trent , go after Monk or Huerter than enter playoffs and have high-kick in face of reality once Suggs shows he really can't play SG against serious defense for same reasons you mentioned above ( kicking ball off his foot, crushing in paint without purpose, or simply throwing bricks in air).
I'm also not sure he, himself, wants to play SG long term. Most players who view themselfs as PG hate idea of being moved off ball (Chris Paul, Harden, Lonzo Ball to name few ). Jrue Holiday once said he hates to play SG or PG ? I can't recall witch one
Let me try to phrase this in a way you will get:
JoshuaPotter wrote:Do we still believe after 2 seasons that Suggs is a PG?
I have called him a bust before. But that doesn't mean he isn't an NBA caliber player. Just a bust based on his supposedly projected position.
MAGICian619 wrote:The sooner we start Black at PG, the sooner this team reaches its full potential. Yes there will be some growing pains along the way, but the point is he needs to get through those no matter what.
Start him day 1.
Real chance this happens imoMAGICian619 wrote:The sooner we start Black at PG, the sooner this team reaches its full potential. Yes there will be some growing pains along the way, but the point is he needs to get through those no matter what.
Start him day 1.
MAGICian619 wrote:The sooner we start Black at PG, the sooner this team reaches its full potential. Yes there will be some growing pains along the way, but the point is he needs to get through those no matter what.
Start him day 1.
pepe1991 wrote:Jalen Suggs didn't shoot 35% for 3 but 32,7%, witch is 3% below league's average. Cumulative to rookie year, he is now 27% three point shooter. That's far cry from people here talking about 38-40%. His FTs give away his actual ability to shoot. It's below average.
He had months when his shot was wet, but also had months where over 14 games streach he shot 23% for 3 in middle of a season. He even played himself basically out of rotation at one point.
You can't put him in starting lineup, especially with Fultz nor Black and act like he is your floor spacer just because you want him to be one and because he failed as PG prospect that everybody hoped him to be.
As far as Black goes, there is no doubt in my mind he will suck as shooter in nba as a rookie. It wasn't just that he was bad shooter for 3, he was bad shooter from everywhere, as his jumpshot is very funky, and he hardly jumps- on jump-shot.
Guy shot 32% from mid range. And no empty-gym-shooting in offseason will change fact that he will be overwhealmed in nba as shooter once 6'7 , 40 inch vertical guy start to run in his direction to contest shots he isn't comfortable taking, let alone making, from distance he never had to shoot before.
People love to bring Josh Giddey, but than tend to forget , or simply never watch OKC to understand dynamic of their team. When OKC needs bucket, they allow Giddey to iniciate but he, by default, gives ball at some point to SGA or in lesser degree Jalen WIlliams. Magic have nobody who is even 70% as elite as SGA is to create something out of nothing. And for damn sure that guy ain't Suggs. SGA comes off 31 ppg season as allstar and probably one of best SGs NBA has. (63% TS, 7,3 BPM, just superstar numbers). Magic 2 guards combined didn't average 30 ppg in any combination ( needless to say nowhere near his efficiency as well).
There is no future for Magic with Fultz, Suggs, Black all being here in year or two.
Fultz thing runned it's course. That story goes nowhere. He is playing 7th year. Injury prone, broken jumpshot, no desire nor ability to shoot or steach floor. I don't need to see teams abusing us in playoffs due his inability to create space to know that story has no happy ending. I've seen enough basketball in my life to know how that story ends before paying him money to watch him ( and team because of him ) flop in playoffs.
Suggs thing. I'll give another year, but i'm 99,98% trading him next year for player who fits Banchero and Franz and hopefully Black for team's sucess going forward. We tried, we gave up 5th pick for PG of future. He can't play PG because he can't dribble , shoot nor play under any control. I don't need homless Marcus Smart on my roster, before any exstension talks, just trade him for player that fits your team. Rim protecting center, shooting guard, backup point guard, combo guard, whatever it's needed at that point and going forward.
Honeymoon stage of " i love everybody" is over. It's time to make playoffs and make hard decisions. Banchero will probably fight for allstar game next year, Franz might put 20 ppg and case his designed max as well. They are knocking on a doors. You better be ready to make roster fit them, instad of running team to a ground to feel better about draft busts.
In all that it's lost that Cole is low key only modern guard Magic have, and he will probably be lost because others had bigger Front Office investments in them.
Magic are 17-9 in games Cole scores at least 15 points.
Magic are 7-15 in gamesm where he scores less than 10.
Maybe, just maybe it has to do with fact he is only guard Magic have that can do all things: pass, beat man off dribble, shoot, and force teams from not clogging paint?
But yea, let's get rid of him, he can shoot, it's clear he doesn't fit
MagicMatic wrote:MAGICian619 wrote:The sooner we start Black at PG, the sooner this team reaches its full potential. Yes there will be some growing pains along the way, but the point is he needs to get through those no matter what.
Start him day 1.
This would be ideal.
We both know this won’t happen though.
89Magicfan wrote:Would you trade Fultz for Reaves?
Knightro wrote:89Magicfan wrote:Would you trade Fultz for Reaves?
I would. The Lakers wouldn't. I suspect most people on this board wouldn't either.
89Magicfan wrote:MagicMatic wrote:MAGICian619 wrote:The sooner we start Black at PG, the sooner this team reaches its full potential. Yes there will be some growing pains along the way, but the point is he needs to get through those no matter what.
Start him day 1.
This would be ideal.
We both know this won’t happen though.
Would you trade Fultz for Reaves?
zaymon wrote:Do we want to start Black ?
Yes- trade Fultz
No- trade Anthony/Suggs
I think thats the crucial decision we need to make. Coming soon...
IllMagic04 wrote:Black is not starting day one. Thats just insanity. The 2nd half of last season the team was openly talking about making the play in. We didn't make it. So what do you think the goals are this season? You can't get there starting a rookie PG unless he is some outstanding can't miss prospect which Black is certainly not. We can't start this guy because he was the number 6 pick. He gotta come in and earn that right. Which he will not be able to do. Which is fine. He's a rookie. He will be the backup PG behind Fultz. Even if he balls out, if we are in playoff contention, we are still not moving Fultz at the deadline either. The morale for the team is not gonna be good if we stick him in the starting lineup when they all believe they got a chance to make the playoffs. Counting ping pong balls is over. Its time to win.
What drafting Black did do is remove any real shot of Suggs playing the PG. Suggs feels more like the odd man out then people realize. Everyone wants to move Cole. But even if we move him it doesn't solve the log jam problem. Suggs and Black cannot play together aside from late game need a defensive stop situation. Black is absolutely going to be the backup PG. So the only place he can play is in the starting role next to Fultz which also isn't a great scenario. If we move on from Fultz next year then Black is the starter.. and again they can't play next to each other. Unless Suggs shooting takes a drastic improvement, I don't see where he fits short term nor long term..
IllMagic04 wrote:Black is not starting day one. Thats just insanity. The 2nd half of last season the team was openly talking about making the play in. We didn't make it. So what do you think the goals are this season? You can't get there starting a rookie PG unless he is some outstanding can't miss prospect which Black is certainly not. We can't start this guy because he was the number 6 pick. He gotta come in and earn that right. Which he will not be able to do. Which is fine. He's a rookie. He will be the backup PG behind Fultz. Even if he balls out, if we are in playoff contention, we are still not moving Fultz at the deadline either. The morale for the team is not gonna be good if we stick him in the starting lineup when they all believe they got a chance to make the playoffs. Counting ping pong balls is over. Its time to win.
What drafting Black did do is remove any real shot of Suggs playing the PG. Suggs feels more like the odd man out then people realize. Everyone wants to move Cole. But even if we move him it doesn't solve the log jam problem. Suggs and Black cannot play together aside from late game need a defensive stop situation. Black is absolutely going to be the backup PG. So the only place he can play is in the starting role next to Fultz which also isn't a great scenario. If we move on from Fultz next year then Black is the starter.. and again they can't play next to each other. Unless Suggs shooting takes a drastic improvement, I don't see where he fits short term nor long term..
MagicMatic wrote:IllMagic04 wrote:Black is not starting day one. Thats just insanity. The 2nd half of last season the team was openly talking about making the play in. We didn't make it. So what do you think the goals are this season? You can't get there starting a rookie PG unless he is some outstanding can't miss prospect which Black is certainly not. We can't start this guy because he was the number 6 pick. He gotta come in and earn that right. Which he will not be able to do. Which is fine. He's a rookie. He will be the backup PG behind Fultz. Even if he balls out, if we are in playoff contention, we are still not moving Fultz at the deadline either. The morale for the team is not gonna be good if we stick him in the starting lineup when they all believe they got a chance to make the playoffs. Counting ping pong balls is over. Its time to win.
What drafting Black did do is remove any real shot of Suggs playing the PG. Suggs feels more like the odd man out then people realize. Everyone wants to move Cole. But even if we move him it doesn't solve the log jam problem. Suggs and Black cannot play together aside from late game need a defensive stop situation. Black is absolutely going to be the backup PG. So the only place he can play is in the starting role next to Fultz which also isn't a great scenario. If we move on from Fultz next year then Black is the starter.. and again they can't play next to each other. Unless Suggs shooting takes a drastic improvement, I don't see where he fits short term nor long term..
What does Suggs have to do with the point guard rotation if he was playing backup SG behind Gary Harris? He started 19 games total last season.
If you want to make a case with Jett Howard getting more of Suggs minutes, then by all means make that argument.
Why is it with takes like this that people are completely incapable of envisioning Cole Anthony to start basketball games with the idea of easing Black into minutes? Markelle Fultz was abysmal sharing the floor with Cole last season and he is not sharing it with Anthony Black.
So what happens when/if we see another jump in production in Suggs shooting development like we saw between year 1 and 2? The guard rotation still hasn't changed and Anthony Black is playing behind two point guards in contract years. Did you think that far into the equation?