The Chicago Bulls Are Stuck in NBA Hell

[DropStep]

I appreciated Bill putting on his GM hat to try and fix the Bulls. I love his podcast more than any podcasts out there. He's my #1 listen ahead of the CHGO podcast. Those guys get way too into the add reads which annoys me.

As Doug said, he tackles things lightheartedly (but seriously enough, somehow), even when his teams lose, which is an art. He has fun doing it, and he is legitimately like 15% a fan of every team (even the Lakers) because he loves basketball so much, which allows him to dive into how to solve problems for each team and wear each hat for a few minutes. He legitimately wants them to all be good and for all the fans to be happy because he loves it all so much (minus the Lakers). Plus he has a good memory, is funny, and loves diving into dumb topics - but in a gleeful "trivia is fun" way instead of a pedantic way. He always has a skip in his step, even (or especially) if it is sometimes subversive. Great stuff. Honestly, his talk-showish one-on-one guest interviews tend to be my least favorite ones. Just bring on KOC or Joe House and laugh about basketball and I'm good. I've even caved in to his pronouncing of "women" the same as woman, and Washington as "Washitin." It's remarkable he still can pull the "fan's angle" thing off at age 50+ after getting 500 mill in the Spotify deal. It just bums me out to see him with white hair. Ugh, I'm old.

[Dominator83]

Well you just listed the Boonies of the NBA and we are not those markets and so all the Bulls need to is what other big market teams have done for a while which is develop relationships and position themselves as preferred destinations so that after all those picks are seasoned in 2-3 years in the boonies you can step in and pick them up via free agency or trades.

We're not the Lakers.

So? We're the Chicago Bulls, an iconic franchise with a storied past. Top 5 market for endorsements. We could absolutely become a destination team provided we quit tanking every 5 years and lumping ourselves in with the Detroit Pistons of the world.

Just because we are not the preeminent franchise in the NBA doesn't mean we can't position ourselves to hang with them.

We went for Mcgrady and Duncan, we got Ron Mercer.

We went for a combo of Lebron/wade or Lebron/Bosh , we got Carlos Boozer.

We went for Melo. Swing and a miss (though that was good we dodged a bullet) and Gasol was a great get for the price that off-season



Trades for prime KG? Nope. Prime Gasol? Nope. Prime Melo? Nope. Prime Dwight? Nope. Prime Amare stoudemire? Nope. And during those time periods we had assets to pull these off.

We've always been a draft or bust franchise just like all the small market teams. Ok sure we're better than most of them at getting tier 2 or 3 guys thru those avenues sure. AKME's way of doing it is brutal. They're like the Ryan Pace of the NBA always owing picks and kicking the can down the road (even did that again last week owing yet 2 more future 2nds on top of the massive depletion of picks we already have instead of just letting debts settle and starting a fresh line of debt-free credit like Ryan poles did)

Also, for a "storied" franchise, we've had 1 era of greatness that ended 25 years ago. The new crop of young stars weren't even born yet the last time we were great never seen that era live.

I would love nothing more than to be the Lakers. Multiple eras of greatness led by different crops of stars. Always in the mix to get the big FAs and/or trade demands. We aren't that. We need to tank , get high picks , and actually not blunder those high picks by taking Wendells and Patrick's over SGAs and Haliburtons. Imagine what a core of Hali, SGA and Bam would have looked like? We could have had that core. The tank fail because we don't draft well anymore either.

[SfBull]

We're stuck in the NBA hell of being an average team with a 3 core of good but not star players,a hell a having an average FO and average young players without star ceiling.

[Evil_Headband]

I do think there is a chance that this continuity thing will work and the Bulls will be a solid playoff team. Maybe like a 20% chance or something like that. There are surprise teams every year that exceed expectations.

[kulaz3000]

I do think there is a chance that this continuity thing will work and the Bulls will be a solid playoff team. Maybe like a 20% chance or something like that. There are surprise teams every year that exceed expectations.

But he is the trap even if we somehow gel and become a 4-5 seed, but just having a really strong season. Two of our core players are getting older, and we haven't had one of our younger players make a significant leap, beyond small improvements. Point being, even if we do have a great season, we don't really have a future to build upon.

[Stratmaster]

I can’t listen to these two dudes for 35 minutes regardless of who they are. But if you are right you are right. I don’t know their rationale, but their conclusion is correct by my definition of “NBA Hell.”

The important thing to remember here is that we absolutely do not have to be and it is completely within the organization’s power to change that any time they want.

My definition of NBA hell is watching a team win 30 games or less in a season.

Obviously, heaven being in the Finals.

The Bulls are somewhere in-between.

If ownership wants to pay to bring in stars they absolutely can but they won’t do it because it will cut into their profit margins. As was pointed out earlier the Bulls at anytime can make the moves needed to be a championship contender. They just choose not to do so.

Meh. If you mean they could pay the lux tax, the only reason you do that is when the acquisition will make you a top 4 team in your conference. I think the Bulls thought they were close to that when they got the Big 3, or whatever you choose to call them, and Lonzo. When LonZo went down, and they were suddenly back to being a .500 TEAM, it obviously set them back a step. By the way, Zach Lavine and Demar are both stars. They may not be a great fit together. They certainly aren't superstars. But they are stars.

I don't know of any star player who made a lot of sense who was available, As far as right now, I would certainly trade DDR for Dame. That's about the only thing I see out there that would make sense. I'm not interested in Harden. What star do you see who you think is available that they should be going after? Because if it makes sense I'll start writing letters begging them to trade DDR and pieces for whoever that player is.

[prolific passer]

To be fair. Bulls have been stuck in NBA hell since 1998.

[Red8911]

Everyone has their own definition of “NBA hell”. Whether it’s a team in the middle, rebuilding, 1st round exit, quarter final exit, semi final exit, even making the finals and losing is not enough for some fans then consider it NBA hell.

For me NBA hell is when a team tanks or rebuilds. Team is unwatchable for god knows how long and not only do these teams lose all the time they do it on purpose too. A fan cannot sit down and watch a game during this time and the process of drafting is not fun at all. That’s my view of NBA hell.

Atleast these current bulls have talented players and compete every night. Sure they were annoying and are a .500 team but at least they compete and fight for the playoffs.

[Am2626]

My definition of NBA hell is watching a team win 30 games or less in a season.

Obviously, heaven being in the Finals.

The Bulls are somewhere in-between.

If ownership wants to pay to bring in stars they absolutely can but they won’t do it because it will cut into their profit margins. As was pointed out earlier the Bulls at anytime can make the moves needed to be a championship contender. They just choose not to do so.

Meh. If you mean they could pay the lux tax, the only reason you do that is when the acquisition will make you a top 4 team in your conference. I think the Bulls thought they were close to that when they got the Big 3, or whatever you choose to call them, and Lonzo. When LonZo went down, and they were suddenly back to being a .500 TEAM, it obviously set them back a step. By the way, Zach Lavine and Demar are both stars. They may not be a great fit together. They certainly aren't superstars. But they are stars.

I don't know of any star player who made a lot of sense who was available, As far as right now, I would certainly trade DDR for Dame. That's about the only thing I see out there that would make sense. I'm not interested in Harden. What star do you see who you think is available that they should be going after? Because if it makes sense I'll start writing letters begging them to trade DDR and pieces for whoever that player is.

I don’t see Portland wanting DeRozan now. They are in full rebuild mode which bad for the Bulls as they probably are not going to see that pick for a long time. If the Bulls are wanting to be competitive then go all in. Find a way to bring in Lillard without trading LaVine and DeRozan. Offer whatever young player this team has Portland would want, Ex: PAW. Not sure how they are going to get the salaries to match up though. Maybe Portland will take Lonzo’s contract in the hopes that he can come back in another year. Also not sure if the Bulls can sign and trade Ayo to them and obviously give them back the pick protection. Do the Bulls own their first next year? Offer that too.

[Am2626]

Everyone has their own definition of “NBA hell”. Whether it’s a team in the middle, rebuilding, 1st round exit, quarter final exit, semi final exit, even making the finals and losing is not enough for some fans then consider it NBA hell.

For me NBA hell is when a team tanks or rebuilds. Team is unwatchable for god knows how long and not only do these teams lose all the time they do it on purpose too. A fan cannot sit down and watch a game during this time and the process of drafting is not fun at all. That’s my view of NBA hell.

Atleast these current bulls have talented players and compete every night. Sure they were annoying and are a .500 team but at least they compete and fight for the playoffs.

A team that is tanking and rebuilding has a chance to be a championship caliber team one day. A team like this Bulls team with no draft capital and aging fringe stars has no shot or path to a championship which makes them the definition of being in NBA Hell. That is the worst possible place to be because they are not good enough to win anything or bad enough to get any real talent in the draft.

[mc140]

I would take a team at this point that could win a playoff round. AK hasn't shown he is capable of making the correct decisions for even this to happen.

[prolific passer]

Atleast these current bulls have talented players and compete every night. Sure they were annoying and are a .500 team but at least they compete and fight for the playoffs.

Wasn't the knock on this team is that they didn't have the heart to compete as some of the teams of the past did?

I mean I seen a team go 0-9 and end up finishing with the 3rd best record in the east.

Don't think they have that kind of heart.

[Dan Z]

We're not the Lakers.

So? We're the Chicago Bulls, an iconic franchise with a storied past. Top 5 market for endorsements. We could absolutely become a destination team provided we quit tanking every 5 years and lumping ourselves in with the Detroit Pistons of the world.

Just because we are not the preeminent franchise in the NBA doesn't mean we can't position ourselves to hang with them.

We went for Mcgrady and Duncan, we got Ron Mercer.

We went for a combo of Lebron/wade or Lebron/Bosh , we got Carlos Boozer.

We went for Melo. Swing and a miss (though that was good we dodged a bullet) and Gasol was a great get for the price that off-season



Trades for prime KG? Nope. Prime Gasol? Nope. Prime Melo? Nope. Prime Dwight? Nope. Prime Amare stoudemire? Nope. And during those time periods we had assets to pull these off.

We've always been a draft or bust franchise just like all the small market teams. Ok sure we're better than most of them at getting tier 2 or 3 guys thru those avenues sure. AKME's way of doing it is brutal. They're like the Ryan Pace of the NBA always owing picks and kicking the can down the road (even did that again last week owing yet 2 more future 2nds on top of the massive depletion of picks we already have instead of just letting debts settle and starting a fresh line of debt-free credit like Ryan poles did)

Also, for a "storied" franchise, we've had 1 era of greatness that ended 25 years ago. The new crop of young stars weren't even born yet the last time we were great never seen that era live.

I would love nothing more than to be the Lakers. Multiple eras of greatness led by different crops of stars. Always in the mix to get the big FAs and/or trade demands. We aren't that. We need to tank , get high picks , and actually not blunder those high picks by taking Wendells and Patrick's over SGAs and Haliburtons. Imagine what a core of Hali, SGA and Bam would have looked like? We could have had that core. The tank fail because we don't draft well anymore either.

The Bulls kept Jerry Krause for too long. I can't imagine that he looked good in the media when it came to NBA players. He had public disagreements with Jordan, Phil Jackson, etc. I can see why they gave him a chance to rebuild the team, but he had issues there too (For example Elton Brand).

They probably kept Paxson and Gar Forman for too long to.

As for the last 6 years they not only drafted poorly, but they did a bad job of developing the players they did select. I've said it before, but if the Bulls had Utah level Markkanen that would've changed many things. In that case do they still draft PW? Do they still trade for Vuc?

I know some people don't think that version of Markkanen would happen here, and maybe it wouldn't, but the team certain didn't give him good advice or properly utilize him.

[Dominator83]

So? We're the Chicago Bulls, an iconic franchise with a storied past. Top 5 market for endorsements. We could absolutely become a destination team provided we quit tanking every 5 years and lumping ourselves in with the Detroit Pistons of the world.

Just because we are not the preeminent franchise in the NBA doesn't mean we can't position ourselves to hang with them.

We went for Mcgrady and Duncan, we got Ron Mercer.

We went for a combo of Lebron/wade or Lebron/Bosh , we got Carlos Boozer.

We went for Melo. Swing and a miss (though that was good we dodged a bullet) and Gasol was a great get for the price that off-season



Trades for prime KG? Nope. Prime Gasol? Nope. Prime Melo? Nope. Prime Dwight? Nope. Prime Amare stoudemire? Nope. And during those time periods we had assets to pull these off.

We've always been a draft or bust franchise just like all the small market teams. Ok sure we're better than most of them at getting tier 2 or 3 guys thru those avenues sure. AKME's way of doing it is brutal. They're like the Ryan Pace of the NBA always owing picks and kicking the can down the road (even did that again last week owing yet 2 more future 2nds on top of the massive depletion of picks we already have instead of just letting debts settle and starting a fresh line of debt-free credit like Ryan poles did)

Also, for a "storied" franchise, we've had 1 era of greatness that ended 25 years ago. The new crop of young stars weren't even born yet the last time we were great never seen that era live.

I would love nothing more than to be the Lakers. Multiple eras of greatness led by different crops of stars. Always in the mix to get the big FAs and/or trade demands. We aren't that. We need to tank , get high picks , and actually not blunder those high picks by taking Wendells and Patrick's over SGAs and Haliburtons. Imagine what a core of Hali, SGA and Bam would have looked like? We could have had that core. The tank fail because we don't draft well anymore either.

The Bulls kept Jerry Krause for too long. I can't imagine that he looked good in the media when it came to NBA players. He had public disagreements with Jordan, Phil Jackson, etc. I can see why they gave him a chance to rebuild the team, but he had issues there too (For example Elton Brand).

They probably kept Paxson and Gar Forman for too long to.

As for the last 6 years they not only drafted poorly, but they did a bad job of developing the players they did select. I've said it before, but if the Bulls had Utah level Markkanen that would've changed many things. In that case do they still draft PW? Do they still trade for Vuc?

I know some people don't think that version of Markkanen would happen here, and maybe it wouldn't, but the team certain didn't give him good advice or properly utilize him.

You can sorta put Wendell in that boat too. Now if course his ceiling was and still is solid starter. He never had star potential (which is what made that pick even worse we had no stars and needed to swing for the fences not lay down a bunt) but funny how pretty much immediately after landing in Orlando he became that solid starter. Here he was trash. The Bulls absolutely suck at developing guys and getting the most out of them

[Dan Z]

We went for Mcgrady and Duncan, we got Ron Mercer.

We went for a combo of Lebron/wade or Lebron/Bosh , we got Carlos Boozer.

We went for Melo. Swing and a miss (though that was good we dodged a bullet) and Gasol was a great get for the price that off-season



Trades for prime KG? Nope. Prime Gasol? Nope. Prime Melo? Nope. Prime Dwight? Nope. Prime Amare stoudemire? Nope. And during those time periods we had assets to pull these off.

We've always been a draft or bust franchise just like all the small market teams. Ok sure we're better than most of them at getting tier 2 or 3 guys thru those avenues sure. AKME's way of doing it is brutal. They're like the Ryan Pace of the NBA always owing picks and kicking the can down the road (even did that again last week owing yet 2 more future 2nds on top of the massive depletion of picks we already have instead of just letting debts settle and starting a fresh line of debt-free credit like Ryan poles did)

Also, for a "storied" franchise, we've had 1 era of greatness that ended 25 years ago. The new crop of young stars weren't even born yet the last time we were great never seen that era live.

I would love nothing more than to be the Lakers. Multiple eras of greatness led by different crops of stars. Always in the mix to get the big FAs and/or trade demands. We aren't that. We need to tank , get high picks , and actually not blunder those high picks by taking Wendells and Patrick's over SGAs and Haliburtons. Imagine what a core of Hali, SGA and Bam would have looked like? We could have had that core. The tank fail because we don't draft well anymore either.

The Bulls kept Jerry Krause for too long. I can't imagine that he looked good in the media when it came to NBA players. He had public disagreements with Jordan, Phil Jackson, etc. I can see why they gave him a chance to rebuild the team, but he had issues there too (For example Elton Brand).

They probably kept Paxson and Gar Forman for too long to.

As for the last 6 years they not only drafted poorly, but they did a bad job of developing the players they did select. I've said it before, but if the Bulls had Utah level Markkanen that would've changed many things. In that case do they still draft PW? Do they still trade for Vuc?

I know some people don't think that version of Markkanen would happen here, and maybe it wouldn't, but the team certain didn't give him good advice or properly utilize him.

You can sorta put Wendell in that boat too. Now if course his ceiling was and still is solid starter. He never had star potential (which is what made that pick even worse we had no stars and needed to swing for the fences not lay down a bunt) but funny how pretty much immediately after landing in Orlando he became that solid starter. Here he was trash. The Bulls absolutely suck at developing guys and getting the most out of them

I was surprised that they didn't draft Mikal Bridges that year. He seemed like a GarPax kind of player.

That also would've changed things going forward.

[nitric0]

Agreed. This core has won 1 playoff game

[BeatDaCavs420]

Insert every Chicago team here ____ lmao

[JimmyButler21]

Insert every Chicago team here ____ lmao

The Bears and Blackhawks are building something because they both successfully didn't screw up a tank season

[erlim]

Insert every Chicago team here ____ lmao

The Bears and Blackhawks are building something because they both successfully didn't screw up a tank season

Thanks Sean Kilpatrick.

[bullsnewdynasty]

The Bulls have been in NBA hell since arguably Rose tore his ACL and definitely since they fired Thibs.

It’s ownership and front office. They don’t know how to build a winner. Still don’t.