Harden may be coming here?

[wakelaunch1]

Case in point:

...the Clippers are looking at potential long-term salary savings that would at least call for some form of draft compensation back to the Sixers. Los Angeles has also made starting center Ivica Zubac available in trade talks, sources said, with an idea of retaining veteran big man Mason Plumlee in his stead.
https://sports.yahoo.com/2023-nba-free-agency-should-we-be-preparing-for-james-harden-to-end-up-with-the-clippers-171832820.html

This trade is going to set us back 10+ years. We will have three washed-up stars who barely play and have no trade value anymore, and nothing else. No picks for an eternity, no other players of value. And no championships to justify it. The absolute worst position a team can be in.

I m not excited about Harden but I would be happy to trade Zubac. If we are going to play Lues defense we need a switchable big. Watching Zubac sag two years in a row and people like Luka getting wide open looks off of picks was absolutely painful

[ejftw]

Yesterday it was all but a done deal. Today it’s tap the breaks it’s going to be awhile.

I just hope we haven’t put all our eggs in the Harden basket.

Sixers are going to ask for an unrealistic package, we tell them to screw off. Sixers will look around elsewhere, maybe or maybe not there is another situation where Harden is amenable to going. Either way eventually Sixers and Clippers will probably resume contact and then we'll see what the real price could be...

Yeah, with how many bridges Harden has apparently burned, I'd be kinda shocked if a team that he wasn't demanding to go to would make the move for him, we've all seen an unmotivated James.

And I'm not saying that because I even want him here, but it's just the reality. I honestly can't see a team making a move for him without the commitment, which, handicaps the possible moves.

However, Morey does seem like the type that will sit and wait until he gets something he likes.

[og15]

He gets grief because of the vast disparity between how much we traded away to acquire him and his actual impact when it matters most. Every Playoff P moment or 7-turnover game just makes the loss of SGA and the picks sting that much more.

Now we're lining up to gut the team once again for an even worse post-prime playoff choker, having learned absolutely nothing from the last time we did that. Not because it gets us any closer to beating Denver or winning titles, but because casuals will buy jerseys since they recognize the name on the back. And superficial stuff like that is all this franchise seems to care about at the end of the day. They're incapable of putting in the hard work to build a real winner. All they want is short-term attention, winning the headlines while other teams win in June.

Why would one give a player grief because of what a team chose to trade for him? Lol

That's not George's fault even one bit.

First, that is the teams fault, second if you wanted to find another party to blame, just to satisfy the itch, it would be Kawhi and his crew who handcuffed the team in terms of the conditions he required for coming.

Blaming George for what the term traded for him is like blaming a player for the position a team drafted them, it makes no sense.

Is it PG's fault that Frank got fleeced? Of course not.
Are fans still going to be frustrated every time PG proves he wasn't worth our whole future? Absolutely.

It may not be entirely fair... but on the other hand, if fans didn't have a borderline irrational emotional attachment to their teams, the NBA wouldn't be a big enough business for PG to get paid as much as he does, so there's some nuance that needs to be acknowledged here.

PG does himself no favors by constantly making questionable comments, demanding specific players while not showing up consistently himself, the whole "what I won't do is quit" debacle, etc. He's not the easiest player to root for, which matters even more when you compare him to how Shai's been drama-free and fun to watch.

Yes, the fanatic part of fandom which can in some cases be irrational is part of the machine that does help to supply the avenue for the players to make how much they do.

It's good that you acknowledge that it is a quite unfair to players when we as fans take out our frustration with management decisions on the player. As long as we're realizing that, okay, maybe in the fun of being a fan I can get on the player about this, but when we step back and be real, it's not PG's fault he got traded for the package that he for traded for.

I'm on board because Harden is the best pg match the duo could have. If they still can't get the ring with that trio... It destined to fail anyway so no remorse when they blow everything in 2024. I heard most of the cabanas and 3/4 lounges already sold at new arena

Depending on where is going out, it is fine. In this scenario, Harden can be a third option or co-2nd option and the teams success won't rely on him having to come through with big scoring in critical playoff games.

[og15]

Case in point:

...the Clippers are looking at potential long-term salary savings that would at least call for some form of draft compensation back to the Sixers. Los Angeles has also made starting center Ivica Zubac available in trade talks, sources said, with an idea of retaining veteran big man Mason Plumlee in his stead.
https://sports.yahoo.com/2023-nba-free-agency-should-we-be-preparing-for-james-harden-to-end-up-with-the-clippers-171832820.html

This trade is going to set us back 10+ years. We will have three washed-up stars who barely play and have no trade value anymore, and nothing else. No picks for an eternity, no other players of value. And no championships to justify it. The absolute worst position a team can be in.

I m not excited about Harden but I would be happy to trade Zubac. If we are going to play Lues defense we need a switchable big. Watching Zubac sag two years in a row and people like Luka getting wide open looks off of picks was absolutely painful

Difficulty is that everyone wants a switchable big, so getting one who you can play 28+ mpg is not easy, but then in an ideal world you also need a big that can switch, protect the rim and be playable against bigs like Jokic, AD, etc without getting destroyed.

So, now it's tough. You can go smaller at C with a guy that can switch, but then he's not a great rim protector or he's not very good man to man against bigger guys. You get a rim protector, but he can't switch or play up in pick and roll. By committee or just accepting limitations is really where most teams have to do.

[wco81]

Isn’t it possible to trade PG for Harden who are both the same age, without having to deal with extending & maxing PG and getting Harden as a 1 year rental since he’s a free agent anyway and will probably leave?
I prefer Westbrook if we’re talking commitment to actually playing basketball & Harden has proven that he will leave any franchise at any time. It could help us towards our eventual rebuild even if he walks after this season.

Getting rid of Morris is also a priority.

I mean we’re highly unlikely to win a championship this coming season anyway so for the future I kinda like shedding PG and taking Harden for whatever this season brings then he bolts. As long as we don’t give up youth and picks

Keeping PG and trading him for assets would help far more than an expiring contract. Not sure what an expiring contact does to help with a future rebuild.

I can kind of see the logic of a Big 3. Coming into last season, Clippers were considered one of the top contenders because of depth.

That didn't work out, so maybe Harden can carry more of the load during the season but for clutch possessions in the playoffs, KL and PG13 would be the primary options.

But if they do somehow acquire him while retaining KL and PG13, then by the fall, Clippers may have to give 4-year max extensions to those two and Harden is going to want his max extension next summer, because that is why he wants out of Philly, which apparently is balking at maxing him out, both in money and number of years.

Or the Clippers would have to trade Harden at the trade deadline, then maybe getting even less of a return than whatever they send out to get Harden.

Ballmer has the financial wherewithal so why not? If the Clippers can't win in the next couple of seasons, they never may and it could be a long rebuild.

[madmaxmedia]

Isn’t it possible to trade PG for Harden who are both the same age, without having to deal with extending & maxing PG and getting Harden as a 1 year rental since he’s a free agent anyway and will probably leave?
I prefer Westbrook if we’re talking commitment to actually playing basketball & Harden has proven that he will leave any franchise at any time. It could help us towards our eventual rebuild even if he walks after this season.

Getting rid of Morris is also a priority.

I mean we’re highly unlikely to win a championship this coming season anyway so for the future I kinda like shedding PG and taking Harden for whatever this season brings then he bolts. As long as we don’t give up youth and picks

Keeping PG and trading him for assets would help far more than an expiring contract. Not sure what an expiring contact does to help with a future rebuild.

I can kind of see the logic of a Big 3. Coming into last season, Clippers were considered one of the top contenders because of depth.

That didn't work out, so maybe Harden can carry more of the load during the season but for clutch possessions in the playoffs, KL and PG13 would be the primary options.

But if they do somehow acquire him while retaining KL and PG13, then by the fall, Clippers may have to give 4-year max extensions to those two and Harden is going to want his max extension next summer, because that is why he wants out of Philly, which apparently is balking at maxing him out, both in money and number of years.

That (and his age) are exactly why his trade value is not high to begin with. And now he's demanding a trade to the Clippers?

I would literally stop rooting for the Clippers if they actually traded Paul George AND assets for James Harden. I get that some of our previous moves can be debated, but there was some sort of underlying logic to them (even if it was faulty logic.)

But Paul George and stuff for Harden is not plausible. There are other trade packages that I would really disagree with, but are at least plausible.

But yeah- I can totally see the logic of a Big Old 3 too. Harden is a rickety shell of what he used to be, but that's still a pretty good basketball player who on some nights can still turn the clock back 10 years.

[wco81]

Although, Harden had a good season last year but maybe helped playing with Embiid.

Maybe wouldn't have as much room on other teams.

[esqtvd]

Instead of draft picks, which Ballmer sorely needs to hang onto, we could add Coffey and /or Boston as sweeteners if Philly wanted them. The deal works either way. Philly is kind of sick of Georges Niang and Coffey might be some useful depth over there. And Boston is the equivalent of a high SRP or even late 1st.

I still think Philly can do better, but if Morey feels some obligation to deal Harden to his first choice LAC, this isn't robbery.

I guess my assessment of Harden's trade value is not as high as yours. TBH I think we really need to hold onto Mann, I know you're not as high on Mann but we would need what he does contribute even more if we add Harden. I'd rather add Coffey and or Boston, or whatever else.

Au contraire, mon ami. Mann has value and he and Powell are the centerpieces of the offer. Dumping Mook is to our benefit, and Coffey and Boston are only sweeteners in lieu of draft picks. Philly might not even want either--they have Jaden Springer as their project.

Listening to Philly talk radio, Mann and Powell are the two names everyone now knows, but it likely won't be enough. Remember, Morey let Simmons stew for months until the Nets finally gave him Harden. He also [rather stupidly IMO] passed up Sacto's offer of Haliburton and Heild, insisting on De'Aaron Fox [and told to go pound sand].

Another complication is that Harden is acting pissy, so Morey now has no reason to accommodate his #1 choice, the Clippers. Harden has no leverage here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-james-harden-upset-with-sixers-wants-to-play-for-clippers/ar-AA1dfUWR

[madmaxmedia]

Instead of draft picks, which Ballmer sorely needs to hang onto, we could add Coffey and /or Boston as sweeteners if Philly wanted them. The deal works either way. Philly is kind of sick of Georges Niang and Coffey might be some useful depth over there. And Boston is the equivalent of a high SRP or even late 1st.

I still think Philly can do better, but if Morey feels some obligation to deal Harden to his first choice LAC, this isn't robbery.

I guess my assessment of Harden's trade value is not as high as yours. TBH I think we really need to hold onto Mann, I know you're not as high on Mann but we would need what he does contribute even more if we add Harden. I'd rather add Coffey and or Boston, or whatever else.

Au contraire, mon ami. Mann has value and he and Powell are the centerpieces of the offer. Dumping Mook is to our benefit, and Coffey and Boston are only sweeteners in lieu of draft picks. Philly might not even want either--they have Jaden Springer as their project.

Listening to Philly talk radio, Mann and Powell are the two names everyone now knows, but it likely won't be enough. Remember, Morey let Simmons stew for months until the Nets finally gave him Harden. He also [rather stupidly IMO] passed up Sacto's offer of Haliburton and Heild, insisting on De'Aaron Fox [and told to go pound sand].

Another complication is that Harden is acting pissy, so Morey now has no reason to accommodate his #1 choice, the Clippers. Harden has no leverage here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-james-harden-upset-with-sixers-wants-to-play-for-clippers/ar-AA1dfUWR

This trade only makes sense to me if we're getting a deal, and if that's not happening then I don't want it. I understand why Sixers would not pursue a package that is only centered around Powell, but Powell/Mann/etc. for Harden doesn't turn us into a realistic contender IMO. If it doesn't do that, then I don't want to get even older and more injury-prone as a squad.

[nickhx2]

i wonder what westbrook's relationship with harden is these days

also, have to admit to the irony of this all. wasn't all that long ago that i didn't want either of these players on the team. but i suppose if you're gonna go all-in with kawhi/PG, might as well go all-in, all-in and grab all the dudes you never wanted to see on your team

[NickP]

I'd be rolling my eyes at anyone back then telling me we'd have Russ Kawhi PG and Harden on the Clippers in 2023. Hmm!

[esqtvd]

I guess my assessment of Harden's trade value is not as high as yours. TBH I think we really need to hold onto Mann, I know you're not as high on Mann but we would need what he does contribute even more if we add Harden. I'd rather add Coffey and or Boston, or whatever else.

Au contraire, mon ami. Mann has value and he and Powell are the centerpieces of the offer. Dumping Mook is to our benefit, and Coffey and Boston are only sweeteners in lieu of draft picks. Philly might not even want either--they have Jaden Springer as their project.

Listening to Philly talk radio, Mann and Powell are the two names everyone now knows, but it likely won't be enough. Remember, Morey let Simmons stew for months until the Nets finally gave him Harden. He also [rather stupidly IMO] passed up Sacto's offer of Haliburton and Heild, insisting on De'Aaron Fox [and told to go pound sand].

Another complication is that Harden is acting pissy, so Morey now has no reason to accommodate his #1 choice, the Clippers. Harden has no leverage here.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-james-harden-upset-with-sixers-wants-to-play-for-clippers/ar-AA1dfUWR

This trade only makes sense to me if we're getting a deal, and if that's not happening then I don't want it. I understand why Sixers would not pursue a package that is only centered around Powell, but Powell/Mann/etc. for Harden doesn't turn us into a realistic contender IMO. If it doesn't do that, then I don't want to get even older and more injury-prone as a squad.

Welp, those are the names being floated around Philly already and it's reasonable to assume the Clippers' offer is pretty close to what I proposed here. Since I'm a fan of both, I'm just trying to dial in something that might be acceptable for both teams. IMO, Mann and Powell are all we have to offer without dipping into draft picks. RoCo started out in Philly and there is no enthusiasm to bring him back.

As for Clipper Nation's implacable Mann-love--not just here but on Twitter too--frankly, the Sixers are letting Shake Milton depart as a FA and Mann's numbers are better, but not by a huge amount. They're the same height, weight and age. If they're kicking Milton to the curb, it's hard to see Mann moving their meter significantly, especially with his $10M/yr contract kicking in.





The Sixers also have Maxey and Melton starting at guard and Tobias starting at SF. All in all, for reasons given, this deal looks DOA.

[MartinToVaught]

The Mann/Shake comparisons fall apart just from watching them play and seeing that they're completely different players. Shake is a dime-a-dozen microwave bench scorer at best. Mann is the type of POA defender and all-around glue guy who smart teams value because they contribute to winning and dumb teams like the Clippers throw away because they aren't big names.

[esqtvd]

no negotiating with the Mann-boi love society lol

Mann is better than Shake but not by all that much esp @ $10M
a nice piece but
not going to move Morey's meter

So, we return to the Clippers, who could wind up bringing Harden back to his hometown alongside fellow California kids Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

Morris, a Philadelphia native, is a veteran stretch four and occasional small-ball five on an expiring contract. Powell, who played for Nurse on the Raptors, has become a very good, efficient scorer. Since the 2019-20 season, he’s posted 17.6 points per game and shot 40.7 percent from three-point range. He’s 6-foot-4 but has a 6-11 wingspan that helps him handle taller players and force turnovers at a decent rate. Terance Mann is another non-star on the Clippers’ roster with appealing qualities. We imagine he’d fit nicely with Maxey and Melton as a smart, selfless 6-foot-5 guard experienced with defending stars and adapting to fluctuating roles.

With all of that said, Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey has historically been guided by a star-hunting philosophy. It’s ultimately on him and the Sixers’ front office to decide how to best play another high-stakes, high-drama scenario revolving around a star point guard.

Sixteen or so months after ending the protracted Ben Simmons saga and acquiring Harden, Morey again has a massive decision on his plate.

https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/as-sixers-field-trade-calls-james-harden-morey-again-massive-tricky-decision-to-make/526631

[Bobbymcgee]

My guess is the Clippers strike out again because some other team will offer more for him. Maybe Chicago? Sounds like Morey wants a more serious return than the Clippers can offer.

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

That settles that. Actual NBA front offices don't value Shake anywhere near Mann.

[Ballings7]

It's gonna end up being Mann, Morris, Zu, Amir, rights to Kobe, swap swaps in 25 and 27, top 7 prot 28 frp for Harden, Springer and House.

Zu obviously gets redirected. Maybe Bones or BJ as well

Yeah would not do something like that... but this team probably will go for that big short-term push. Be interesting to see who would be gotten to replace the loss of that key depth

Gonna need a backup/starting C. Gonna need to replace Mann with someone with experience and ability on both ends.

[ejftw]

It's gonna end up being Mann, Morris, Zu, Amir, rights to Kobe, swap swaps in 25 and 27, top 7 prot 28 frp for Harden, Springer and House.

Zu obviously gets redirected. Maybe Bones or BJ as well

Yeah would not do something like that... but this team probably will go for that big short-term push. Be interesting to see who would be gotten to replace the loss of that key depth

Gonna need a backup/starting C. Gonna need to replace Mann with someone with experience and ability on both ends.

I mean, not much depth is being lost there as Morris sucks, Lue just didn't trust Mann (apparently), Amir didn't play.

Can keep Plumlee with his birds to start, toss in more burn for Moussa, sign Bamba for the min.

Hopefully, BJ, is kept out of the deal and you give him the Mann minutes. RoCo takes the Mook minutes, and, hopefully, he isn't fully cooked.

But yeah, I'd rather not Harden, never been a fan.

[esqtvd]

It's gonna end up being Mann, Morris, Zu, Amir, rights to Kobe, swap swaps in 25 and 27, top 7 prot 28 frp for Harden, Springer and House.

Zu obviously gets redirected. Maybe Bones or BJ as well

Yeah would not do something like that... but this team probably will go for that big short-term push. Be interesting to see who would be gotten to replace the loss of that key depth

Gonna need a backup/starting C. Gonna need to replace Mann with someone with experience and ability on both ends.

Mann is not going to move the Morey meter. He just kicked Shake Milton to the curb for zero return and still has Maxey and Melton. A 9 ppg backup 2-3 is not even a starting point.

Wojnarowski was a guest on NBA Today, where he gave the latest update on James Harden getting traded from the Philadelphia 76ers. While the Clippers and Harden have mutual interest, it seems pretty clear that the 76ers are going to wait and see what other offers come their way.

"This may not be a quick process, Malika, for Philly, they've got to maximize the value they get for James Harden here," Wojnarowski said. "That $35 million deal that he opted into yesterday, and to see whether that's young players, or players ready to help them now, rotation guys, draft picks. It is unlikely that this moves really quickly. You know how Daryl Morey operates, and certainly, he's going to try and be creative and get everything he can out of a possible trade here."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/major-update-on-james-harden-trade/ar-AA1dh2Dc

If Powell doesn't excite him, I don't think we're really in this. Zu is quality, but again, Morey's not going to trade a top-tier NBA starter [which Harden still is] for backups.

Read on Twitter

Will Ballmer let events dictate his future? If he's not on the phone kissing Russ's ass at this moment he's flirting with bupkis again.

[madmaxmedia]

I’d rather give up draft assets than Mann. If we’re gonna trade for a good old timer, we need to maximize our chances now.