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2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1601 » by bigdogdylan5 » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:06 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:Who should we move that for? Old Lillard? Overpaid Beal? The right guy hasn’t materialized yet.


Assuming we aren't moving Paolo or Franz, yes and yes. The perfect person will never materialize.

I disagree completely. Mitchell was that person we were just a year too early. I am patient I want the right guy.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1602 » by VFX » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:09 pm

SOUL wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:The annoying thing about our guard logjam are the contract implications. A lot of those issues you outlined do not have that issue. Cole and Fultz are both on expiring deals and will not return value this season.


It can go either way though, right? It's either not an immediate issue (no extensions for guys people are iffy on), but it becomes an immediate issue once there are extensions as to who is playing where in our future.

I can't say with certainty who they want to retain/trade out of Fultz/Cole/Suggs, but I think it'll be resolved over the course of the season. If they decide with extensions that they have no desire to trade any of them or make room, that's when I'll start bitching.

When it comes to actual players people want to keep or not, that is more subjective. Fultz as of right now is a decent starter/great backup. If he becomes even an average three point shooter, that moves his stock up a lot. Making AND taking more.

A lot of people don't think it's feasible he will improve there, which is fine.


Well… yeah, I’d hope so. Because that would imply that Black is getting RJ Hampton minutes.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1603 » by SOUL » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:22 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Soul can i ask you several questions?

Do you think Weltman and Hammond are capable of building championship roster? If so ,what gives you confidence in it? Do you find odd that Bucks and Magic, under Hammond, 2007- present day, never won playoff series as he was in charge of roster?


Considering there are 30 teams and most teams do not build a championship roster.. I can't say yes, but I think they can build a contending one. I have no fundamental issue of how they've teared the team down and drafted outside of a few misses (that most GMs have).

pepe1991 wrote:Do you think in current NBA where it's turmoil and changes every year, it's possible to organically built team without top 3 best players on planet Earth ( GIannis/Jokic)?


Well, what is the option if you don't have one? Give up? I think if you don't have a top player then at least stockpile assets and have control of all of your draft picks to be able to acquire a big named guy - we currently have all of our picks and everything ranging from great to amazing to solid to meh to no real value of prospects.

pepe1991 wrote:Do you think there is objective, logical way how can NBA team play : veteran who expects exstension, young player who is RFA, young player eligiable for early resign who was top 5 pick and rookie- all at same positions and somehow develop them without bias toward or against somebody? And why not solve clear problem BEFORE season rather than wait until at least one of them is thrown out or rotation, and by default, loses value?


You have two vets on expiring contracts (Harris and Ingles), two guys without guarantee of extension (Fultz, Cole) and rookies. I mean, we have debated years over the concept of "gifting rookies minutes" so I don't know if you're arguing it for devil's advocate sake but haven't you advocated for spot minutes for young players until they prove they deserve it?

Also, the concept of logjam often doesn't equal reality of it. Too many factors. I am constantly reading of complaints of players not playing many games anymore/too many injuries yet when it comes to the Magic, none of that is applicable? Also people take positions and never look back all of the time. Then the player who isn't good enough usually gets traded.

pepe1991 wrote:Do you think 2025 decisions are too late , given that by that point Franz will be getting his +200M contract , and Banchero his +250M contract in 2026 ? Or, by that point ,you are pretty much stuck, for better or worst, with what you have?


Considering it's 2023 I don't think anything is too late. If you ask me in 2025 and we have continued to "kick the can down the road", then yes, obviously it is a colossal failure to address any team need.

pepe1991 wrote:And last: how many evaluation years one front office can have until it becomes clear their whole "strategy" is just prolonged and ever lasting limbo where only objective goal is to not make anything to get them fired?


The minute they traded Vuc + Gordon + Fournier the evaluation was always going to be a slow burn.

First year after rebuild - bad year with rookies
Second year after rebuild - competitive below average team that was okay when healthy
Third year - suddenly pivot completely with whole new team despite only having 2 roster spots (?)

I don't know, I think what people assumed the third year would be is completely different from how most teams operate.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1604 » by Cammo101 » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:26 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:Who should we move that for? Old Lillard? Overpaid Beal? The right guy hasn’t materialized yet.


Assuming we aren't moving Paolo or Franz, yes and yes. The perfect person will never materialize.

I disagree completely. Mitchell was that person we were just a year too early. I am patient I want the right guy.


The right guy would be great. But there is a finite amount of time here to find that guy, and once the young guy's contracts start coming up, that surplus goes away and getting a star gets much harder.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1605 » by Knightro » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:26 pm

On a serious note…

Given Jonathan Isaac’s complete unreliability, who is the backup PF?

Like I know Isaac will have the opportunity, but obviously they can’t be banking on him in that role and the depth at that spot isn’t anything to write home about.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1606 » by basketballRob » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:32 pm

Knightro wrote:On a serious note…

Given Jonathan Isaac’s complete unreliability, who is the backup PF?

Like I know Isaac will have the opportunity, but obviously they can’t be banking on him in that role and the depth at that spot isn’t anything to write home about.
Moe can play PF, and if we give the 15th roster spot to Bol, he can play PF.

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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1607 » by VFX » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:32 pm

Knightro wrote:On a serious note…

Given Jonathan Isaac’s complete unreliability, who is the backup PF?

Like I know Isaac will have the opportunity, but obviously they can’t be banking on him in that role and the depth at that spot isn’t anything to write home about.


Probably something like

Paolo/Moritz
Carter/Goga

Where Okeke and Bol are playing spot minutes and M. Wagner flexes into spot Center minutes like last season.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1608 » by Knightro » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:37 pm

How is Bol getting a roster spot when the roster is already full?
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1609 » by basketballRob » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:38 pm

Knightro wrote:How is Bol getting a roster spot when the roster is already full?
I thought we had one spot open?

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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1610 » by SOUL » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:40 pm

basketballRob wrote:I thought we had one spot open?

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Moe took the last spot.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1611 » by RookieStar » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:41 pm

Knightro wrote:On a serious note…

Given Jonathan Isaac’s complete unreliability, who is the backup PF?

Like I know Isaac will have the opportunity, but obviously they can’t be banking on him in that role and the depth at that spot isn’t anything to write home about.


Moe who else. He would do well with the defensive bigs at his back in wcj/goga rather than the team rely on him as the last line of defense.

Plus he also shoots 3s so it opens up
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1612 » by Knightro » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:42 pm

As it stands right now the Magic have the max 15.

G: Fultz, Anthony, Black
G: Harris, Suggs, Howard
F: F. Wagner, Ingles, Houstan
F: Banchero, Isaac, Okeke
C: Carter, M. Wagner, Bitadze

No room at the inn for Bol.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1613 » by RookieStar » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:44 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:
Assuming we aren't moving Paolo or Franz, yes and yes. The perfect person will never materialize.

I disagree completely. Mitchell was that person we were just a year too early. I am patient I want the right guy.


The right guy would be great. But there is a finite amount of time here to find that guy, and once the young guy's contracts start coming up, that surplus goes away and getting a star gets much harder.


Yup.. the right guy/star to get would be after this season. You have to time it right and Paolo is still a 2nd yr player right now.

I mean the right guy to me would have been Brunson but only after this season.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1614 » by basketballRob » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:46 pm

It seems odd that they are postponing signing Bol. It sounds like a move is coming

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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1615 » by SOUL » Sat Jul 1, 2023 11:47 pm

RookieStar wrote:I mean the right guy to me would have been Brunson but only after this season.


They're not easy to identify either. People were clowning his contract hard.

Hell, people were clowning WCJ's contract hard.. I remember being on the T&T forum arguing against like 5 people at once how it was a solid deal and he proved it within like 5 months.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1616 » by RookieStar » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:02 am

SOUL wrote:
RookieStar wrote:I mean the right guy to me would have been Brunson but only after this season.


They're not easy to identify either. People were clowning his contract hard.

Hell, people were clowning WCJ's contract hard.. I remember being on the T&T forum arguing against like 5 people at once how it was a solid deal and he proved it within like 5 months.


I know... hindsight is really.... i mean a lot were preparing their pitchforks after the Franz pick and getting their torches after Summer league. Thats why i dont get the hate for Jett NOW.

WeHam, like it or not, managed to gain a lot of capital/insurance with their franx and paolo pick. Thats why im waiting and see the FA they will try to get to complement Paolo and Franz.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1617 » by tiderulz » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:09 am

basketballRob wrote:It seems odd that they are postponing signing Bol. It sounds like a move is coming

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I mean, its not signing right? its just exercising an option. I agree it could be because of a move.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1618 » by D12VCMagic » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:13 am

I still think a trade is a strong possibility. A spot could still be opened up for Bol potentially, but if not then I think the last roster spot going to the elder Wagner is the better decision.
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1619 » by Residual-Heat » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:18 am

Atleast we didnt have an offseason like the Rockets just did. This is what happens when youve been bad for so long, youre forced to overpay big time.. We need to make the play ins next season. Ofcourse the Rockets were in a worse situation because they won 12 less games and dont have control of their picks, so they felt desperate, but still...
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Re: 2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III 

Post#1620 » by Knightro » Sun Jul 2, 2023 12:27 am

Assuming Moritz's 2nd year is a team option, the Magic only have six players with fully guaranteed contracts for 2024-2025 right now.

Banchero: 12.16M
Carter: 11.95M
Suggs: 9.18M
Black: 7.60M
Franz: 7.00M
Howard: 5.27M
TOTAL: 53.16M

The cap is probably going to rise by 10%, so you're talking a cap of roughly $149 to $150M. The Magic will need to spend a LOT next summer.

Unrestricted Free Agents (3): Fultz, Harris, Bitadze
Team Options (2): Ingles, M. Wagner
Restricted Free Agents (2): Anthony, Okeke
Fully Non-Guaranteed Contracts (2): Isaac, Houstan

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