How did we convince TDuncan, Grant HIll, and Tmac to sign?

[AdamTheGreek]

First, the Doc **** is overstated. I stand with Doc every time in that situation. Tim stayed because of Robinson and Pop.
Gabriel was the first to ever manipulate the cap to create a situation where 3 stars could be signed. It was genius.
The Magic were a very successful franchise overall still in 2000.
The Heart N Hustle team was a huge reason why Hill and Duncan were interested. They liked Doc. Orlando was cool to live in especially if you were a family man.

In the two decades since, more agents and players know about the DeVos ownership. Our ownership’s reputation has held us back.

[jonbob17]

First, the Doc **** is overstated. I stand with Doc every time in that situation. Tim stayed because of Robinson and Pop.
Gabriel was the first to ever manipulate the cap to create a situation where 3 stars could be signed. It was genius.
The Magic were a very successful franchise overall still in 2000.
The Heart N Hustle team was a huge reason why Hill and Duncan were interested. They liked Doc. Orlando was cool to live in especially if you were a family man.

In the two decades since, more agents and players know about the DeVos ownership. Our ownership’s reputation has held us back.

Yah, that's sort of how I remember it, Doc was bringing Hill and TMac based off his relationships through i believe was still the AAU circuits.

The Magic flight restriction on family's would be extremely frustrating if true, but i am not sure either...

[Stormofreign]

Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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[3ddman23]

Ok - Duncan didn't ultimately signed because of cockroach Doc Rivers...but he almost did.

John Gabriel I think was a Master GM. He made Orlando an attractive destination when we had nothing - just heart and hustle team.

How?

I question why we have a joke of Front Office that can't convince stars to sign for Orlando. Seems nowadays, it's players doing the work to bring great talent - not Front Office. Heck, probably why we saw Banchero mixing it in with already Jokic and committing to Team USA...he's branching out and getting his name out there.

I feel what's the point of Joe Ingles?

We need vet presence - we should have gone after Chris Paul instead for vet leadership.

At the time, Orlando was a very cool and upcoming city. The entire city had a special magical vibe to it. Orlando as a city has changed drastically over the years. It’s not a very pleasant place to live anymore.

When the entire country sees rainbow flags plastered on every inch of the city, Disney, etc.. and being the laughing joke of the NBA since post Dwight.. no major free agent would want any part of it.

The downtown has not grown at all in the past 10+ years.. the nightlife is no longer world renowned like it was back in the day. The tallest building in Orlando is an amusement park ride.

It’s just not a cool and hip/happening city like it was trying to become back in the day.

Why would any young multi millionaire athlete want to live there when they could live in NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, etc?

I’m not trying to knock Orlando - I used to love Orlando because I grew up in Orlando but it has become a very cheesy place to call home.

Hell, Orlando does not even have a true Hip-Hop Radio Station.

Oh yea, remember the disaster Disney bubble season? Yea, the NBA players hated it and hated the city where it was played.

Athletes these days don’t care about winning. Sure they do to an extent when they get older chasing a ring, but the young guys don’t. They care more about their image, social media followers, etc. Orlando is not a good place at all for all that.

Don't have a hip hop station, but actually have a really good underground hip hop scene. Grind time now started in orlando and put battle rap back on the map after the early smack era and scribble Jams days. A lot of top battle raps you see now a days all rapped on grind time.

[fendilim]

Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?

[fendilim]

First, the Doc **** is overstated. I stand with Doc every time in that situation. Tim stayed because of Robinson and Pop.
Gabriel was the first to ever manipulate the cap to create a situation where 3 stars could be signed. It was genius.
The Magic were a very successful franchise overall still in 2000.
The Heart N Hustle team was a huge reason why Hill and Duncan were interested. They liked Doc. Orlando was cool to live in especially if you were a family man.

In the two decades since, more agents and players know about the DeVos ownership. Our ownership’s reputation has held us back.

What reputation are we talking about here? Haha

[Stormofreign]

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?

You don’t get to link T-Mac and Grant Hill as if they were one signing. Each man made his own decision. You also don’t to get to make your own rules as to who was overpaid. I doubt this list will make one bit of difference in your opinion, because you are clearly intent on downgrading the team and city you claim to cheer for. Here you go anyway…

Horace Grant…most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)
Hedo Turkoglu...(went to finals)
Rashard Lewis...most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)


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[fendilim]

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?

You don’t get to link T-Mac and Grant Hill as if they were one signing. Each man made his own decision. You also don’t to get to make your own rules as to who was overpaid. I doubt this list will make one bit of difference in your opinion, because you are clearly intent on downgrading the team and city you claim to cheer for. Here you go anyway…

Horace Grant…most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)
Hedo Turkoglu...(went to finals)
Rashard Lewis...most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)


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I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

Also, since you think Hedo was the “biggest name in the market” in 2014, and not Steve Nash, then I won’t waste my time, have a nice day.

[JT3000]

I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

This seems to be a very common problem with this forum (among other things.) How did y'all even pick a team? Put on a blindfold and throw a dart at a pride flag?

[fendilim]

I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

This seems to be a very common problem with this forum (among other things.) How did y'all even pick a team? Put on a blindfold and throw a dart at a pride flag?

Is that how you did it? Haha

[Stormofreign]

I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

This seems to be a very common problem with this forum (among other things.) How did y'all even pick a team? Put on a blindfold and throw a dart at a pride flag?

Preach


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[Stormofreign]

other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?

You don’t get to link T-Mac and Grant Hill as if they were one signing. Each man made his own decision. You also don’t to get to make your own rules as to who was overpaid. I doubt this list will make one bit of difference in your opinion, because you are clearly intent on downgrading the team and city you claim to cheer for. Here you go anyway…

Horace Grant…most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)
Hedo Turkoglu...(went to finals)
Rashard Lewis...most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)


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I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

Also, since you think Hedo was the “biggest name in the market” in 2014, and not Steve Nash, then I won’t waste my time, have a nice day.

I never said Hedo was the biggest name that year. Just as I thought you are not a Magic fan. No need to further this conversation


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[fendilim]

You don’t get to link T-Mac and Grant Hill as if they were one signing. Each man made his own decision. You also don’t to get to make your own rules as to who was overpaid. I doubt this list will make one bit of difference in your opinion, because you are clearly intent on downgrading the team and city you claim to cheer for. Here you go anyway…

Horace Grant…most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)
Hedo Turkoglu...(went to finals)
Rashard Lewis...most sought after player year we signed him.(went to finals)


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I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

Also, since you think Hedo was the “biggest name in the market” in 2014, and not Steve Nash, then I won’t waste my time, have a nice day.

I never said Hedo was the biggest name that year. Just as I thought you are not a Magic fan. No need to further this conversation


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Hahaha you said biggest name in the market… then says hedo in the next quote

Your words, not mine.

I dont have to live in Orlando to be a Magic fan. I did not support this team by default. Lol

[tiderulz]

Different team building strategies. There are a lot of options, WeHam have chosen to build organically.

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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rose colored glasses in my opinion. I would have to look to verify the statement of every biggest name, but the ones we did, we outbid everyone else out there, including ourselves in Rashard's case

[Stormofreign]

I’m not blindsided as a fan. And have no attachment with the city. Lol

Also, since you think Hedo was the “biggest name in the market” in 2014, and not Steve Nash, then I won’t waste my time, have a nice day.

I never said Hedo was the biggest name that year. Just as I thought you are not a Magic fan. No need to further this conversation


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Hahaha you said biggest name in the market… then says hedo in the next quote

Your words, not mine.

I dont have to live in Orlando to be a Magic fan. I did not support this team by default. Lol

I actually didn’t. You have conflated two different topics. Your words were that Orlando wasn’t t a prime FA destination. I said that when they desired to do so they got the biggest name on the market. The Magic did not pursue Steve Nash. You then asked besides T-Mac and Grant Hill for other examples. I provided that, Hedo included. The devil is in the details. I do not wear rose colored glasses when it comes to this team. There are only 15,000 or so people who were at the first Magic game in history. I’m one of them. So I’ve been here for all the ups and downs. I’m cognizant of all the warts. I’m also aware of the beauty marks. You don’t get to highlight the failures and discount the good decisions. And I’m from Orlando, so we take exception to people marginalizing our town. There’s a reason so many stars who could live anywhere in the world choose to live here. Thus the reason the Magic have landed many big name free agents when they’ve chosen to jump in the fray.


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[Ducklett]

This crap doesn’t help either

I guarantee you rainbow flags or Disney or Banchero wearing baggy jeans doesn't matter when signing X player. $$$ and a chance to win talks to anyone.

I think money used to be more of a factor…not sure of the exact changes but the NBA has definitely created rules to give teams better chances of retaining players. Also, tax-free states used to have 82 game benefit, now it’s only home games.

I find it laughable that ORL (and all the rainbow flags) is too “woke” for young African-American players…I’d say the rednecks with gun racks and hateful bumper stickers are a lot more pervasive and less inviting in Central FL. Only Isaac or Karl Malone would feel at home.

Most Free Agents pick their spot and find a way to get paid anyway…Bad teams used to be able to lure Free Agents with money - you really don’t see that anymore. Dame, an MVP candidate, just says MIA and it happens…players are far more empowered, for better or worse, now even disgruntled jerks like Harden just say “here’s my list”.

Well if gun racks are everywhere I think Ja will force a trade here, right?

I love the city because there are little pockets of weird you don't get in other places. Milk district and mills50 having one of the biggest pagan/wiccan communities. You got strange places like Mount Dora where you can pretend you are in the 1980s. The weather makes it so you get food truck rallies all year and strange outdoor concerts constantly (like in the old days when Cranes Roost had the floating stage they would boat out to the middle of the lake). I sometimes wonder if some people who comment about the city have lived here long enough to know about its weirdness.

[basketballRob]

Delete

[Skybox]

I guarantee you rainbow flags or Disney or Banchero wearing baggy jeans doesn't matter when signing X player. $$$ and a chance to win talks to anyone.

I think money used to be more of a factor…not sure of the exact changes but the NBA has definitely created rules to give teams better chances of retaining players. Also, tax-free states used to have 82 game benefit, now it’s only home games.

I find it laughable that ORL (and all the rainbow flags) is too “woke” for young African-American players…I’d say the rednecks with gun racks and hateful bumper stickers are a lot more pervasive and less inviting in Central FL. Only Isaac or Karl Malone would feel at home.

Most Free Agents pick their spot and find a way to get paid anyway…Bad teams used to be able to lure Free Agents with money - you really don’t see that anymore. Dame, an MVP candidate, just says MIA and it happens…players are far more empowered, for better or worse, now even disgruntled jerks like Harden just say “here’s my list”.

Well if gun racks are everywhere I think Ja will force a trade here, right?

I love the city because there are little pockets of weird you don't get in other places. Milk district and mills50 having one of the biggest pagan/wiccan communities. You got strange places like Mount Dora where you can pretend you are in the 1980s. The weather makes it so you get food truck rallies all year and strange outdoor concerts constantly (like in the old days when Cranes Roost had the floating stage they would boat out to the middle of the lake). I sometimes wonder if some people who comment about the city have lived here long enough to know about its weirdness.

Only 27 years for me...the very public MAGA stuff is fairly new or at least fairly new at being out and in your face instead of under a sheet...I was only observing that the visible "woke" stuff is a blip compared to that and if you consider the typical NBA player's profile, it might not be the most comforting vibe. The general public is reasonable in Central FL, IMO, but the loud, visible stuff is a bit overstated that way, in both extremes.

[fendilim]

I never said Hedo was the biggest name that year. Just as I thought you are not a Magic fan. No need to further this conversation


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Hahaha you said biggest name in the market… then says hedo in the next quote

Your words, not mine.

I dont have to live in Orlando to be a Magic fan. I did not support this team by default. Lol

I actually didn’t. You have conflated two different topics. Your words were that Orlando wasn’t t a prime FA destination. I said that when they desired to do so they got the biggest name on the market. The Magic did not pursue Steve Nash. You then asked besides T-Mac and Grant Hill for other examples. I provided that, Hedo included. The devil is in the details. I do not wear rose colored glasses when it comes to this team. There are only 15,000 or so people who were at the first Magic game in history. I’m one of them. So I’ve been here for all the ups and downs. I’m cognizant of all the warts. I’m also aware of the beauty marks. You don’t get to highlight the failures and discount the good decisions. And I’m from Orlando, so we take exception to people marginalizing our town. There’s a reason so many stars who could live anywhere in the world choose to live here. Thus the reason the Magic have landed many big name free agents when they’ve chosen to jump in the fray.


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Like you said,


When the magic desired to land “the biggest FA in the market” they were able to do so

i asked who were the biggest FA in the market we signed other than hill and tmac

You said Hedo*.


* - Hedo was in the same FA class with Nash that year. Go figure. Lol


If we really were a prime FA destination, why haven’t we gone that route of building a team than endure the pain of re-building through the draft for the last decade?

“We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter.”

[Stormofreign]

Thats true.

But is Orlando really a prime FA destination?

I think the factor for landing TMac and GH was really about forming a super team than being a FA destination.

We even had to overpay for Rashard.

Grant Hill committed to play for the Magic before Tim Duncan had a made a decision, and before they sealed the deal with T-Mac; who was not a superstar yet. So yes, Orlando is a free agent destination. Every time we’ve had cap room and desired to do so we’ve landed the biggest name on the market.


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other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?

Here’s what you said: “other than grant hill which lead to tmac signing, who else did we sign that deserved the max without overpaying?”
That’s what I answered. This is different from what you keep saying you said. Interesting that you focused on Hedo, but not Horace Grant who I also named. He was the number one free agent when he signed with us.


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