Trade/Free Agency Thread, part 7, 2023-24

[snowman]

It seems that since Boston is not doing anything this trade/free agency time period, this thread has turned into the anti-Dame Lillard to Miami thread. Or the "let's move Brogdon because we need to do something cap related for next season. However, I will say it again, in looking at what's left out there to choose from, I can see why Brad is sticking to his guns and not throwing good money at bad players.

Our starting lineup is pretty much set in stone.
White, Brown, Tatum, RW3, Porzingis
This starting unit I would put against any starting unit in the NBA. My only concern is why it's taking so long to announce Brown's extension. My hope is Brad is, again, sticking to his plan about not going over a certain dollar amount, or a certain number with regards to options with Brown. I do have hope that it will get done soon. If I were Brad, I would ask Brown if he thought he as the best player in the NBA? If not, should he get the largest contract in the history of the NBA? I do feel that even if signed for 295 mil over 5 years, that it will not even be the largest contract as early as even next season. Two players have signed for 260 mil over 5 already this season, Haliburton and LaMelo Ball. Personally, I would take Brown over both of these guys, so the 35-mil over 5 years difference is not that bad considering. They may both be batter down the road, but if you look past the last series Brown had in the playoffs, Brown has produced better than both of them. (IMO)

Our bench is a constant work in progress. With (Guards) Brogdon, Pritchard, Davison, (wings) Walsh, Champagnie, Hauser, Brissette, (bigs) Horford, Grant Williams, and Kornet, that's all 15 spots. Walsh and Davison maybe part of our 2-way players, but the rest will be on the regular roster. Even though we have 3 guards, 4 wings and 3 bigs, it still seems like we are missing something that makes our bench stand out. There just isn't anything that strikes fear in the other team, and we need to make one smaller to medium move to change that. None of these players are on contract that runs past next season (24/25), so could be easily moved if needed.

[The Corey's]

Yall still never learned from Horford/Irving/Hayward

You cant lose the cap holds for nothing. Losing Grant for free is worse than hard capping your self by going over the second apron.

One move still allows for you to move salary around by trade, the other you lose a player and still don't have the ability to sign anyone of worth because you're already over the first cap apron.

That said, Grant sucks anyway, just ask the coach. They're not going to pay him $80 mil plus.

[cloverleaf]

if desmond bane is getting 40m per, it's tough to argue that jaylen isn't worth 60.

Bane had a .606 TS% on 25.6% usage last year. He's also shot over 40% all 3 years in the league. Had 5.0 assts to 2.5 TOs per 36 last year as well. Is a smarter, more consistent defender who had an +8.6 on/off last year.

By contrast, Brown had a -3.8 on/off, had 3.5 assts to 2.9 TOs per 36, has never hit 40% from 3 through his 7 years in the league and was at .335 last season, and had an absolutely league-average .581 TS% on an undeserved 31.4% usage last year.

I'd give Bane $60M/year sooner than I'd give it to Brown.

[zoyathedestroya]

We can re-sign Grant (either match an offer from another team, sign him to new contract, or he accepts QO) but whatever number he signs at most likely gets us over the second apron if Brogdon isn't dealt. We only lose the TP-MLE.

It’s probably worth losing the TP-MLE if it means keeping Grant. I doubt will find anyone better for the TP-MLE than Grant.

or trade Brogdon and get a good player, resign Grant Williams and use the MLE

To stay below the second apron, said good player would have to be in $10-12M range in salary IF Grant is at NT-MLE money and we're using the TP-MLE.

[Scarletfire81]

if desmond bane is getting 40m per, it's tough to argue that jaylen isn't worth 60.

Bane had a .606 TS% on 25.6% usage last year. He's also shot over 40% all 3 years in the league. Had 5.0 assts to 2.5 TOs per 36 last year as well. Is a smarter, more consistent defender who had an +8.6 on/off last year.

By contrast, Brown had a -3.8 on/off, had 3.5 assts to 2.9 TOs per 36, has never hit 40% from 3 through his 7 years in the league and was at .335 last season, and had an absolutely league-average .581 TS% on an undeserved 31.4% usage last year.

I'd give Bane $60M/year sooner than I'd give it to Brown.

It’s crazy that he was selected with our pick but we traded it.

[big-shot-ROB]

Yeah, going over the second apron means nothing for the first part of the regular season for the Celtics. Yeah you can't pick up buy out players not trade draft picks and you need to actually match salaries on trades but if you like your team then it is no problem. Also you can use the trade deadline to actually get under it to regain flexibility.

White | Brown | Tatum | Porzingis | Rob
Brogdon | Hauser | Grant | Horford | Kornet
PP | JD | Walsh | Brissett | Griffin

That's a very good squad. Both for the RS and the POs. If Brad has the green light to spend you could even do some minor moves involving PP to get a backup SG for the vet min? Would also open some 3rd string minutes for JD given the love he gets around the board.

[chrisab123]

Yall still never learned from Horford/Irving/Hayward

You cant lose the cap holds for nothing. Losing Grant for free is worse than hard capping your self by going over the second apron.

One move still allows for you to move salary around by trade, the other you lose a player and still don't have the ability to sign anyone of worth because you're already over the first cap apron.

That said, Grant sucks anyway, just ask the coach. They're not going to pay him $80 mil plus.

The hard capping thing is interesting because the only one it really hurts is Wyc. Its not like anyone who could possibly fit under the MLE would make an impact. The roster is 8 deep right now with talent. Maybe 9 depending on how you view Hauser. Grant coming back for a year would help a lot but it would also help getting something from say Orlando for your asset maybe one of their guards. Thats more valuable than some random scrub past their prime.

[Celts17Pride]

It’s probably worth losing the TP-MLE if it means keeping Grant. I doubt will find anyone better for the TP-MLE than Grant.

or trade Brogdon and get a good player, resign Grant Williams and use the MLE

To stay below the second apron, said good player would have to be in $10-12M range in salary IF Grant is at NT-MLE money and we're using the TP-MLE.

Delon Wright, Grant Williams plus a $5.0 million free agent. The only issue with that scenario is the Celtics will probably have to use draft capital to make it happen.

[Celts17Pride]

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
2 minutes ago

Oklahoma City is acquiring Brooklyn guard Patty Mills as part of a broader deal through Houston, sources tell ESPN. The Thunder will receive draft compensation to take on Mills’ $6.8M expiring deal.

[chrisab123]

Serious question. Is there a limit on how many picks you can horde? OKC has to be getting there if not already exceeding it.

[BK_2020]

Yall still never learned from Horford/Irving/Hayward

You cant lose the cap holds for nothing. Losing Grant for free is worse than hard capping your self by going over the second apron.

One move still allows for you to move salary around by trade, the other you lose a player and still don't have the ability to sign anyone of worth because you're already over the first cap apron.

That said, Grant sucks anyway, just ask the coach. They're not going to pay him $80 mil plus.

Yeah should've just resigned Hayward for 30 mil a year l

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app

[BK_2020]

Serious question. Is there a limit on how many picks you can horde? OKC has to be getting there if not already exceeding it.

The roster size is essentially a soft cap.

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app

[165bows]

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
2 minutes ago

Oklahoma City is acquiring Brooklyn guard Patty Mills as part of a broader deal through Houston, sources tell ESPN. The Thunder will receive draft compensation to take on Mills’ $6.8M expiring deal.

Feel like Houston might be getting Harden at a fraction of the money he wanted. Might be something else but still feel like they aren’t done being super reckless yet.

[Celtics_Champs]

Hmmm I thought there would be a wet blanket by now shooting down any speculation of Dame.

[cloverleaf]

if desmond bane is getting 40m per, it's tough to argue that jaylen isn't worth 60.

Bane had a .606 TS% on 25.6% usage last year. He's also shot over 40% all 3 years in the league. Had 5.0 assts to 2.5 TOs per 36 last year as well. Is a smarter, more consistent defender who had an +8.6 on/off last year.

By contrast, Brown had a -3.8 on/off, had 3.5 assts to 2.9 TOs per 36, has never hit 40% from 3 through his 7 years in the league and was at .335 last season, and had an absolutely league-average .581 TS% on an undeserved 31.4% usage last year.

I'd give Bane $60M/year sooner than I'd give it to Brown.

It’s crazy that he was selected with our pick but we traded it.

And we traded it for squat.

[The Corey's]

Yall still never learned from Horford/Irving/Hayward

You cant lose the cap holds for nothing. Losing Grant for free is worse than hard capping your self by going over the second apron.

One move still allows for you to move salary around by trade, the other you lose a player and still don't have the ability to sign anyone of worth because you're already over the first cap apron.

That said, Grant sucks anyway, just ask the coach. They're not going to pay him $80 mil plus.

The hard capping thing is interesting because the only one it really hurts is Wyc. Its not like anyone who could possibly fit under the MLE would make an impact. The roster is 8 deep right now with talent. Maybe 9 depending on how you view Hauser. Grant coming back for a year would help a lot but it would also help getting something from say Orlando for your asset maybe one of their guards. Thats more valuable than some random scrub past their prime.

With the new CBA, near as I can tell, once you hit the second apron, you can not sign anyone. Even your own players. This would of been a problem for the Warriors during their dynasty.

The Celtics don't NEED to spend that money, certainly not worth it for Grant given how the coach doesn't really seem that interested in using him. However, salary wise, its good to have those contracts for future trades, given that once you hit the second apron, moves become almost impossible.

The Celtics are in kind of a bad spot here where in 2 years, they'll have two guys making 70% of the available cap.

The only hope here is that there is a trickle down affect from all the teams where other good teams also facing the same problem. Otherwise, its going to be rough.

As for Wyc, Brad and Danny before him have always said they have full approval to spend to the max. Do the facts support that over the past 20 years? Not always. Danny traded Theis simply to save money against the repeater tax. That comes from ownership.

[Hal14]

I thought we can't resign Grant unless we trade Brogdon? Wouldn't we go over 2nd apron if we did this?

We can re-sign Grant (either match an offer from another team, sign him to new contract, or he accepts QO) but whatever number he signs at most likely gets us over the second apron if Brogdon isn't dealt. We only lose the TP-MLE.

It’s probably worth losing the TP-MLE if it means keeping Grant. I doubt will find anyone better for the TP-MLE than Grant.

Honestly, I might throw the TPMLE at Dzanan Musa, then sign Bazley to a minimum contact.

Bazley gives you a lot of what Grant did. A PF who can play some small ball 5, gives you defensive versatility (Bazley is better rim protector and also quicker feet out on the perimeter), play unselfish on offense, good cutter, make some open 3's (obviously Bazley isn't as good a shooter as Grant but did shoot 38% from 3 last season and just turned 23 so still developing). Bazley also gives you better length (6'9" with a 7'0" wingspan, as opposed to Grant who is 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan)

Then you have a bench of: Brogdon, Al, Musa, Hauser, Pritchard, Bazley, Brissett, Kornet, Davison, Walsh

Musa gives you a really dynamic player who can play on ball or off ball. Play him off ball as a catch and shoot guy and cutter. Or play him on ball as a guy who can create his own shot, run PnR. More of a wing but can also play PG, an intriguing skill set at 6'9".

Or, you could go with Craig instead of Musa - if you'd rather go with a guy who's less dynamic offensively but is a better defender and more proven NBA player.

[The Corey's]

Yall still never learned from Horford/Irving/Hayward

You cant lose the cap holds for nothing. Losing Grant for free is worse than hard capping your self by going over the second apron.

One move still allows for you to move salary around by trade, the other you lose a player and still don't have the ability to sign anyone of worth because you're already over the first cap apron.

That said, Grant sucks anyway, just ask the coach. They're not going to pay him $80 mil plus.

Yeah should've just resigned Hayward for 30 mil a year l

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app

Who said that? Reading be **** hard around here.

[cloverleaf]

Serious question. Is there a limit on how many picks you can horde? OKC has to be getting there if not already exceeding it.

The roster size is essentially a soft cap.

Sent from my SM-G991U using RealGM mobile app

Not to Danny:

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Jazz/29/draft-picks

[Celts17Pride]

We can re-sign Grant (either match an offer from another team, sign him to new contract, or he accepts QO) but whatever number he signs at most likely gets us over the second apron if Brogdon isn't dealt. We only lose the TP-MLE.

It’s probably worth losing the TP-MLE if it means keeping Grant. I doubt will find anyone better for the TP-MLE than Grant.

Honestly, I might throw the TPMLE at Dzanan Musa, then sign Bazley to a minimum contact.

Bazley gives you a lot of what Grant did. A PF who can play some small ball 5, gives you defensive versatility (Bazley is better rim protector and also quicker feet out on the perimeter), play unselfish on offense, good cutter, make some open 3's (obviously Bazley isn't as good a shooter as Grant but did shoot 38% from 3 last season and just turned 23 so still developing). Bazley also gives you better length (6'9" with a 7'0" wingspan, as opposed to Grant who is 6'6" with a 6'10" wingspan)

Then you have a bench of: Brogdon, Al, Musa, Hauser, Pritchard, Bazley, Brissett, Kornet, Davison, Walsh

Musa gives you a really dynamic player who can play on ball or off ball. Play him off ball as a catch and shoot guy and cutter. Or play him on ball as a guy who can create his own shot, run PnR. More of a wing but can also play PG, an intriguing skill set at 6'9".

Celtics won't use the MLE unless they trade Brogdon or Pritchard. They are not going to put themselves right on the edge of the 2nd apron, hard capped with very limited flexibility.