Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[ChuckS]

ok think i'm warming up to something for Herro with DFS/Royce going out to 4th/5th teams to bring Portland salary relief and extra picks on top of the heat offer. Nets could also give portland Cam Thomas as an extra young player since he doesnt seem to have a future here.

Dinwiddie/Simmons
Herro/Whitehead
Bridges/Wilson
Cam J/Clowney
Claxton/Sharpe

Would want to find a stretch 5 to upgrade Sharpe but that's a nice group in the right age range and DFS' 3 years offset Herro to some extent even though i think moving DFS by himself is a lot easier.

nets would still be about 16m under the luxury tax so they could go out and make a full MLE offer on someone (grant williams?) and stay under it if they want. or use a big chunk of the KD tpe.

is herro good enough to be the guy who they can play through end of game? dont think so but he's certainly a better option than dinwiddie.

I know Parker and Ginobili were 28th and 57th picks, and there have been a number of other such deep "finds". But golly willikers that second unit scares the crap out of me. And I admit to not having the aptitude, but if I were GM I would not consider a squad with a rotational bench of three unproven rookies and a still somewhat questionable 21 year old recent 29th? pick. I prefer such players be among the 10th to 15th on the squad. It's even worse for me. Simmons can fill in at almost any position. But I'm not sure even he will be playable.

I think Herro solves one of our problems as a good player and excellent scorer. And I'm still hoping Marks brings two bigs into the exceptions. I just feel the board is too obsessed with draft picks to the exclusion of real players who have proven capable of playing well now, and I believe are definitely more needed than additional picks. I think it's better to use some of the already substantial number of picks we have now instead of Royce and DFS, unless we have to give them up for better, or more needed, players in trade.

[Netaman]

ok think i'm warming up to something for Herro with DFS/Royce going out to 4th/5th teams to bring Portland salary relief and extra picks on top of the heat offer. Nets could also give portland Cam Thomas as an extra young player since he doesnt seem to have a future here.

Dinwiddie/Simmons
Herro/Whitehead
Bridges/Wilson
Cam J/Clowney
Claxton/Sharpe

Would want to find a stretch 5 to upgrade Sharpe but that's a nice group in the right age range and DFS' 3 years offset Herro to some extent even though i think moving DFS by himself is a lot easier.

nets would still be about 16m under the luxury tax so they could go out and make a full MLE offer on someone (grant williams?) and stay under it if they want. or use a big chunk of the KD tpe.

is herro good enough to be the guy who they can play through end of game? dont think so but he's certainly a better option than dinwiddie.

I know Parker and Ginobili were 28th and 57th picks, and there have been a number of other such deep "finds". But golly willikers that second unit scares the crap out of me. And I admit to not having the aptitude, but if I were GM I would not consider a squad with a rotational bench of three unproven rookies and a still somewhat questionable 21 year old recent 29th? pick. I prefer such players be among the 10th to 15th on the squad. It's even worse for me. Simmons can fill in at almost any position. But I'm not sure even he will be playable.

I think Herro solves one of our problems as a good player and excellent scorer. And I'm still hoping Marks brings two bigs into the exceptions. I just feel the board is too obsessed with draft picks to the exclusion of real players who have proven capable of playing well now, and I believe are definitely more needed than additional picks. I think it's better to use some of the already substantial number of picks we have now instead of Royce and DFS, unless we have to give them up for better, or more needed, players in trade.

i dont disagree - but that group that you see probably adds 5 veterans. a few minimum types and at least 2 that dip into the midlevel or biannual. plumlee would be a nice add for backup center. who knows maybe even an offer sheet for grant williams. once they get the bigger deal done it will be easier to know what they can afford while remaining under the lux tax.

[Netaman]

ok so here's my best stab at a trade that i think works for all involved.

portland can get 1 more FRP if heat remove the condition on a pick they already dealt away, plus they include some swaps. maybe another first by dealing royce somewhere. so this same framework could net them 5 or 6 total FRP's, plus Jovic, highsmith, swaps and dumping Nurkic to save a bunch of $.

SAS has 3 firsts each of the next 2 drafts, so i think their pick would be their worst pick in either 2024 or 2025. DFS is a good switchable player that fits their culture and can slot next to Wemby.

nets get herro for 2 guys they have been shopping for the last month plus adding in the philly pick.

[Tha King]

ok so here's my best stab at a trade that i think works for all involved.

portland can get 1 more FRP if heat remove the condition on a pick they already dealt away, plus they include some swaps. maybe another first by dealing royce somewhere. so this same framework could net them 5 or 6 total FRP's, plus Jovic, highsmith, swaps and dumping Nurkic to save a bunch of $.

SAS has 3 firsts each of the next 2 drafts, so i think their pick would be their worst pick in either 2024 or 2025. DFS is a good switchable player that fits their culture and can slot next to Wemby.

nets get herro for 2 guys they have been shopping for the last month plus adding in the philly pick.

I think the framework is good using the sixers pick but what about Din and the Sixers pick for Herro? I can see Portland wanting to have a guard presence like Din too to help their players for at least this year.

They'd end up with three first round picks, several swaps, and two recent Heat first round picks. tbh that is a very good return for Dame.

[Netaman]

ok so here's my best stab at a trade that i think works for all involved.

portland can get 1 more FRP if heat remove the condition on a pick they already dealt away, plus they include some swaps. maybe another first by dealing royce somewhere. so this same framework could net them 5 or 6 total FRP's, plus Jovic, highsmith, swaps and dumping Nurkic to save a bunch of $.

SAS has 3 firsts each of the next 2 drafts, so i think their pick would be their worst pick in either 2024 or 2025. DFS is a good switchable player that fits their culture and can slot next to Wemby.

nets get herro for 2 guys they have been shopping for the last month plus adding in the philly pick.

I think the framework is good using the sixers pick but what about Din and the Sixers pick for Herro? I can see Portland wanting to have a guard presence like Din too to help their players for at least this year.

They'd end up with three first round picks, several swaps, and two recent Heat first round picks. tbh that is a very good return for Dame.

i figure they already have lowry coming in as an expiring for that role, and if he plays well who knows maybe they can send him to a contender before the deadline? if not they can buy him out.

also a few days ago there were rumors the nets might extend dinwiddie early this summer, so i think they like him since he can ideally shift to a 6th man role long term. for now he is good simmons insurance.

[Tha King]

ok so here's my best stab at a trade that i think works for all involved.

portland can get 1 more FRP if heat remove the condition on a pick they already dealt away, plus they include some swaps. maybe another first by dealing royce somewhere. so this same framework could net them 5 or 6 total FRP's, plus Jovic, highsmith, swaps and dumping Nurkic to save a bunch of $.

SAS has 3 firsts each of the next 2 drafts, so i think their pick would be their worst pick in either 2024 or 2025. DFS is a good switchable player that fits their culture and can slot next to Wemby.

nets get herro for 2 guys they have been shopping for the last month plus adding in the philly pick.

I think the framework is good using the sixers pick but what about Din and the Sixers pick for Herro? I can see Portland wanting to have a guard presence like Din too to help their players for at least this year.

They'd end up with three first round picks, several swaps, and two recent Heat first round picks. tbh that is a very good return for Dame.

i figure they already have lowry coming in as an expiring for that role, and if he plays well who knows maybe they can send him to a contender before the deadline? if not they can buy him out.

also a few days ago there were rumors the nets might extend dinwiddie early this summer, so i think they like him since he can ideally shift to a 6th man role long term. for now he is good simmons insurance.

makes sense, didn't notice Lowry heading there

[PerkinsFor3]

Bit in line with the post above, but maybe more simple?

Nets would like to dump Ben, they also would like to get Herro. Give up a 1st for dumping Simmons, give up another one for getting Herro. Thats a good deal for them. Both to Portland.

Miami wants Dame. And Nurk. They give up Herro, and they also send Kyle Lowry and Jovic to Portland, along with two unprotected 1sts. They're instant contenders.

Portland loses Dame and Nurk, and eats the Simmons and Lowry contracts, and gets Jovic (he or Highsmith need to be included to make the $$$ match), plus the two Nets 1sts and unprotected Heat 1sts.

Lowry expiring. Simmons expires before Shaedon's rookie contract comes up. Jovic is a good talent.

This works money-wise for every team involved. It also seems to align with what these teams supposedly want?

[Tha King]

Bit in line with the post above, but maybe more simple?

Nets would like to dump Ben, they also would like to get Herro. Give up a 1st for dumping Simmons, give up another one for getting Herro. Thats a good deal for them. Both to Portland.

Miami wants Dame. And Nurk. They give up Herro, and they also send Kyle Lowry and Jovic to Portland, along with two unprotected 1sts. They're instant contenders.

Portland loses Dame and Nurk, and eats the Simmons and Lowry contracts, and gets Jovic (he or Highsmith need to be included to make the $$$ match), plus the two Nets 1sts and unprotected Heat 1sts.

Lowry expiring. Simmons expires before Shaedon's rookie contract comes up. Jovic is a good talent.

This works money-wise for every team involved. It also seems to align with what these teams supposedly want?

Brooklyn has enough tradeable contracts to get Herro without needing to dump Ben and using additional draft picks. His skillset would still be a good compliment with Herro and he only has two years left on his contract.

I can also see a team like Portland willing to take a chance on some upside with Simmons (again, only two years left on his contract and they are now rebuilding) instead of taking expirings that are what they are....but I don't think Brooklyn will be interested in giving what Simmons perceived trade value would suggest to make it happen for them.

[MGrand15]

Since we're picking up former lottery picks, I wouldn't be mad at grabbing Mo Bamba. He's still young and can shoot 3s.

[TheNetsFan]

We only have one roster spot left, not counting 2-ways. I don't expect another signing for a while. Specifically until we know whether we're making any trades.

[Netaman]

We only have one roster spot left, not counting 2-ways. I don't expect another signing for a while. Specifically until we know whether we're making any trades.

there is some kind of move coming. it would be very bizarre to bring this roster as assembled into a season. we know cam j, clax, bridges are starters. dsj seems likely for backup pg.

are royce, dfs, simmons, dinwiddie, thomas, walker entering training camp competing for the other 2 starting spots/6th/7th/8th/9th man spots? seems like it's just asking for guys to be frustrated with no playing time.

[Karate Diop]

At this point I think I'd just move Cam Thomas for a second or two and call it a day... There's no real viable path to minutes (partly his fault, partly Vaughn's)...

[Decipher]

ok think i'm warming up to something for Herro with DFS/Royce going out to 4th/5th teams to bring Portland salary relief and extra picks on top of the heat offer. Nets could also give portland Cam Thomas as an extra young player since he doesnt seem to have a future here.

Dinwiddie/Simmons
Herro/Whitehead
Bridges/Wilson
Cam J/Clowney
Claxton/Sharpe

Would want to find a stretch 5 to upgrade Sharpe but that's a nice group in the right age range and DFS' 3 years offset Herro to some extent even though i think moving DFS by himself is a lot easier.

nets would still be about 16m under the luxury tax so they could go out and make a full MLE offer on someone (grant williams?) and stay under it if they want. or use a big chunk of the KD tpe.

is herro good enough to be the guy who they can play through end of game? dont think so but he's certainly a better option than dinwiddie.

Healthy Simmons is levels above Dinwiddie

Unhealthy Simmons shouldn’t take the court until he’s healthy

[Decipher]

At this point I think I'd just move Cam Thomas for a second or two and call it a day... There's no real viable path to minutes (partly his fault, partly Vaughn's)...

It’s all on Vaughn

For all his faults, Cam can score and the only way he’s going to learn is to play

[ecuhus1981]

I have a hare-brained scheme.

Sean Marks the art of crafting offer sheets to restricted free agents, that are normal for us but lopsided in salary for the team matching the offer. It has something to do with the likely and unlikely incentives, plus the frontloaded pay schedule. We did it when we offered Tyler Johnson that 4yr, $50mil deal. If Miami had decided not to match, we would have paid him like 11-13mil each season. But, since they did match, they paid $5mil in each of the first 2 years, and his salary ballooned to $20mil in each of the last 2 seasons.

I think we should do this for/with Grant Williams. Of course, you have to WANT the player, and the player has to WANT to sign the RFA offer sheet. By now, if an offer larger than the non-taxpayer MLE were going to come for Grant, it would have already happened. And Williams seems to be friendly with the Twins, so I think he would sign a 4-yr, $54mil deal, the maximum we could offer. For us, it could be a normal distribution of $12-14mil per season. If Boston matched, it could turn into a poison pill that would complicate their future financial flexibility.

I like Grant Williams, and I would be in favor of offering this deal even if he weren't on the Celtics. We have a ton of wings, but he offers the ability to guard C's in the post, and we could really use that versatility. Prying him away from BOS would just be the cherry.

[Netaman]

I have a hare-brained scheme.

Sean Marks the art of crafting offer sheets to restricted free agents, that are normal for us but lopsided in salary for the team matching the offer. It has something to do with the likely and unlikely incentives, plus the frontloaded pay schedule. We did it when we offered Tyler Johnson that 4yr, $50mil deal. If Miami had decided not to match, we would have paid him like 11-13mil each season. But, since they did match, they paid $5mil in each of the first 2 years, and his salary ballooned to $20mil in each of the last 2 seasons.

I think we should do this for/with Grant Williams. Of course, you have to WANT the player, and the player has to WANT to sign the RFA offer sheet. By now, if an offer larger than the non-taxpayer MLE were going to come for Grant, it would have already happened. And Williams seems to be friendly with the Twins, so I think he would sign a 4-yr, $54mil deal, the maximum we could offer. For us, it could be a normal distribution of $12-14mil per season. If Boston matched, it could turn into a poison pill that would complicate their future financial flexibility.

I like Grant Williams, and I would be in favor of offering this deal even if he weren't on the Celtics. We have a ton of wings, but he offers the ability to guard C's in the post, and we could really use that versatility. Prying him away from BOS would just be the cherry.

most seem to think the celtics losing him is a foregone conclusion so it would not surprise me if there's a team like the nets that has an offer sheet already sort of agreed to. he'd be an especially good add as a DFS replacement if they trade him.

[Netaman]

piggybacking the grant williams idea, he guarded centers almost 1/3 of the time last year. he could very well be that stretch big we've been looking for.

[Tha King]

piggybacking the grant williams idea, he guarded centers almost 1/3 of the time last year. he could very well be that stretch big we've been looking for.

he's very versatile defensively. I think against the Sixers, the Celtics had him as the secondary defender on Embiid instead of Williams.

could he be worked into one of the TPEs in a S&T?

[Netaman]

piggybacking the grant williams idea, he guarded centers almost 1/3 of the time last year. he could very well be that stretch big we've been looking for.

he's very versatile defensively. I think against the Sixers, the Celtics had him as the secondary defender on Embiid instead of Williams.

could he be worked into one of the TPEs in a S&T?

that would probably be celtics preference because they'd get a TPE (something instead of nothing). or the nets could sign him with the TPMLE to an offer sheet.

here's a complicated looking S&T with boston rolled into the herro deal - i dont expect this to be part of a herro trade, i just wanted to see what the net total payroll would be with Grant on a 4x10m and it's 155m. Think that would go up close to 162m with clowney, whitehead, and walker in there. but still under tax with 14 under contract. luxury tax is 165m so just enough room to add 1 more vet minimum.

*Miami could get Portland a 5th FRP in this if they adjust the protections on that 2025 pick they have outstanding to OKC.


here's the 14 if they keep sumner:

Simmons / DSJ / Sumner
Herro / Dinwiddie / Whitehead
Bridges / Walker / Wilson
Cam J / Grant
Claxton / Sharpe / Clowney

[CalamityX12]

Why or where is this Herro chatter coming from?

Anything official or what ifs from the fanbase?