What makes Curry better than Harden?

[HarGoatStan]

Genuine question. Harden is a better scorer, playmaker, rebounder, higher in career VORP and BPM. Seriously the only thing Steph has is rings and that's bc of team quality

[edgymnerch]

Lol?

[Dr Positivity]

Curry actually tries when he doesn't have the ball

[Dooley]

Does anyone else wish that we'd gotten a whole career of Harden taking more of a supporting role and playing off-ball way more and doing stuff in a ball movement offense, instead of the career we actually got of Harden as super-high-volume ISO engine.

I really liked the glimpses of that we got to see in Brooklyn. It feels like he could have been some weird mutant combo of Manu Ginobili and Larry Bird and I'd have really enjoyed that

And it's sort of a fool's game to say that he would have won more (after all those Rockets teams were legitimate contenders) but part of me does think it'd be a more valuable playstyle

[1993Playoffs]

Curry slightly declines in the postseason,

Harden is usually much worse in the playoffs besides a series or game here or there.

Also his game fell off a cliff from his Houston days. I know he got injured but he’s not even close to his 2017-2020 stretch

Harden is a really strange player that I wouldn’t want as a main contributor if I’m trying to win a championship

[LukaTheGOAT]

Curry's a better scorer in the PS, is more portable, is a better defender probably due to off-ball defense and better transition defense.

Curry lead the NBA in on-court rORTG from 16-19 (minimum 1500 minutes)

2016- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2017- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2018- Stephen Curry (+14.3 rORtg)
2019- Stephen Curry (+10.6 rORtg)

From 2016-2017 through 2018-2019 (Reg Season and Playoffs), with Steph Curry on the Court, and Klay and KD off the court, the Warriors maintained a 116.2 Ortg or a +6.9 rOrtg.

[HarGoatStan]

Curry slightly declines in the postseason,

Harden is usually much worse in the playoffs besides a series or game here or there.

Also his game fell off a cliff from his Houston days. I know he got injured but he’s not even close to his 2017-2020 stretch

Harden is a really strange player that I wouldn’t want as a main contributor if I’m trying to win a championship

It's not like RS has no value and even in the PS, Curry's bad games can be covered by his deathsquad or the opponent team being injured.

[HarGoatStan]

Also Harden literally outplayed Steph in their H2H in the PS but lost...

[LukaTheGOAT]

Also Harden literally outplayed Steph in their H2H in the PS but lost...

In 2019, sure. You could argue Steph outplayed him in 15 and 18. Nonetheless, head to head matchups aren't everything.

[WestGOAT]

Curry's a better scorer in the PS, is more portable, is a better defender probably due to off-ball defense and better transition defense.

Curry lead the NBA in on-court rORTG from 16-19 (minimum 1500 minutes)

2016- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2017- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2018- Stephen Curry (+14.3 rORtg)
2019- Stephen Curry (+10.6 rORtg)

From 2016-2017 through 2018-2019 (Reg Season and Playoffs), with Steph Curry on the Court, and Klay and KD off the court, the Warriors maintained a 116.2 Ortg or a +6.9 rOrtg.

How does Harden' on-court rORTG during that time period?

Also is this RS? What about PS?

[f4p]

Curry slightly declines in the postseason,

Harden is usually much worse in the playoffs besides a series or game here or there.

this is their drop-off from the regular season to the playoffs. with a bunch of different time periods chosen so i'm not just picking the best of the best for harden:



this cuts off at '21 for harden, because he's clearly been past his prime since then. but it doesn't include 2023 for steph, which was another big playoff drop-off. either way, extremely similar drop-offs, even down to "all years" being the best and "peak" being the worst for both of them.

Also his game fell off a cliff from his Houston days. I know he got injured but he’s not even close to his 2017-2020 stretch

if anything, this should probably start to be one of the bigger factors in his rankings. whether it was playing through the hamstring injury in the 2021 playoffs or not, harden has fallen off quite a bit at a younger age than his contemporaries. his longevity won't appear very amazing (although his indestructibility on huge usage through 2020 is a positive in his favor).

Harden is a really strange player that I wouldn’t want as a main contributor if I’m trying to win a championship

he's definitely a little strange in some ways. but if not for the existence of maybe the most talented team ever in his own conference, and even then if just not for chris paul's hamstring, he'd have been the best player on a top 15 team ever. there's plenty of realities where harden wins a title comfortably in 2018.

[f4p]

Curry's a better scorer in the PS, is more portable, is a better defender probably due to off-ball defense and better transition defense.

Curry lead the NBA in on-court rORTG from 16-19 (minimum 1500 minutes)

2016- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2017- Stephen Curry (+12.7 rORtg)
2018- Stephen Curry (+14.3 rORtg)
2019- Stephen Curry (+10.6 rORtg)

From 2016-2017 through 2018-2019 (Reg Season and Playoffs), with Steph Curry on the Court, and Klay and KD off the court, the Warriors maintained a 116.2 Ortg or a +6.9 rOrtg.

How does Harden' on-court rORTG during that time period?

Also is this RS? What about PS?

not sure about on-court rORTG, but harden's teams from 2014-2021 were at 112.8 and steph's were at 112.8, even when taking out 2020. and the years before and after would be advantage to harden.

[f4p]

Also Harden literally outplayed Steph in their H2H in the PS but lost...

In 2019, sure. You could argue Steph outplayed him in 15 and 18. Nonetheless, head to head matchups aren't everything.

2018 is a close battle with similar stats, but at best one could say steph was even given that he was on the best team ever and almost lost to harden's team until harden's best teammate got injured. especially given how bad steph's numbers looked in games 1 through 5 until cp3 got injured and some of the pressure was relieved. and 2019 harden is a much bigger advantage than 2015 steph. midway through game 6 in 2019, steph was having one of the worst series any top 20 player has ever had in their prime. before the 12 turnover debacle in game 5 in 2015, harden was putting up 32/8/7 on 66 TS% against the #1 defense.

[DonaldSanders]

Steph enhances his teammates more than Harden does. Look at the 22 chip, Steph carried a very limited offensive group to a title, he allows GS to play more defensive oriented, limited players that work in an overall team concept. Give Curry a chance to play with another MVP level player like Embiid and he would produce another championship. If you don't lift everyone around you, the team doesn't go as far.

What would older Draymond do with Harden running the show instead? Watch James dribble? It's not as simple as just looking at counting stats, Curry's strengths build a better team.

[AdagioPace]

there's been some years where you could argue Harden was better than Curry (like '15, '18 and '19). The Beard was the only one that could win games by spamming isolations all day. Despite being relatively effective I never liked his monolitic style which often led to being disarmed too easily compared to what shown during his notorious bombastic regular seasons. He needed a big upgrade (CP3) and a perfectly constructed roster around him to leave a small dent in the history of the playoffs.
Curry simply offers more alternatives for teammates and coaches (more malleability), even if you assume they're equal offensively.

[OhayoKD]

there's been some years where you could argue Harden was better than Curry (like '15, '18 and '19). The Beard was the only one that could win games by spamming isolations all day. Despite being relatively effective I never liked his monolitic style which often led to being disarmed too easily compared to what shown during his notorious bombastic regular seasons. He needed a big upgrade (CP3) and a perfectly constructed roster around him to leave a small dent in the history of the playoffs.
Curry simply offers more alternatives for teammates and coaches (more malleability), even if you assume they're equal offensively.

I do not think he would have needed that big of an upgrade if he wasn't running into an unfair superteam. As is, even when that "big upgrade" took a big stepback in 2019 the Rockets were very competitive with the warriors +KD. Curry going nova for a half should not be making us rewrite that whole series.

He was also phenomenal in the 20 postseason and had an all-timer against an atg lakers defense with questionable spacing. "perfectly constructed roster" is a wierd point when we're discussing Stephen Curry and the golden state warriors

[AdagioPace]

there's been some years where you could argue Harden was better than Curry (like '15, '18 and '19). The Beard was the only one that could win games by spamming isolations all day. Despite being relatively effective I never liked his monolitic style which often led to being disarmed too easily compared to what shown during his notorious bombastic regular seasons. He needed a big upgrade (CP3) and a perfectly constructed roster around him to leave a small dent in the history of the playoffs.
Curry simply offers more alternatives for teammates and coaches (more malleability), even if you assume they're equal offensively.

I do not think he would have needed that big of an upgrade if he wasn't running into an unfair superteam. As is, even when that "big upgrade" took a big stepback in 2019 the Rockets were very competitive with the warriors +KD. Curry going nova for a half should not be making us rewrite that whole series.

He was also phenomenal in the 20 postseason and had an all-timer against an atg lakers defense with questionable spacing. "perfectly constructed roster" is a wierd point when we're discussing Stephen Curry and the golden state warriors

Curry achieved a lot in a convincing variety of situations, roster-wise (starting from 2013). If you want to argue that Harden finally managed to convince you and finally crack and defeat the "Post-Season-traumatic-syndrome",he did it too late for me (and not long enough), at least to tilt the balance in his favour in this comparison.

[Lost92Bricks]

Didn't Curry just drop 50 in a game 7? Harden would never.

[No-more-rings]

Steph enhances his teammates more than Harden does. Look at the 22 chip, Steph carried a very limited offensive group to a title, he allows GS to play more defensive oriented, limited players that work in an overall team concept.

You consider Klay, Poole and Wiggins to be limited offensive players?

Also not sure totally what you mean by he allows them to play defensive oriented, GS had great defenses in part due to them having arguably the best defender of the 2015-2020 period. Green was a bit past it by then but still an effective defensive anchor. Trying to give Curry credit for them having great defenses is pretty weird honestly.

[TheLand13]

Curry can actually close out a series.