Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

[Nick K]

Must be desperate to talk about things. Kat is not going anywhere! I love Dame but he duplicates what Ant does. Kat is a much better fit here. Basketball is a team game where you have to go with pieces that fit. If any one player doesn't fit it's Rudy. If you are worried about money, you get rid of Rudy's money not Kat's.

[jpatrick]

Edwards: 35.5m
Towns: 50m
Gobert: 43.8m
Naz: 14m
McDaniels: 25m

Estimating Jaden getting 25m to start on his extension, that means 168.3m will be allotted to three centers, Ant, and McDaniels.

I’ve seen estimates that the cap in 2024-25 will be 142m, lux tax 172m. Even if those estimates are slightly low, I just don’t see how this is feasible.

Trading KAT for Dame does not fix these problems. I only trade KAT if we get assets plus cap relief. And not minimal assets.

[Wolves21]

I think this all shows how catastrophic the Gobert deal was. Instead of cap hell, we could have Gobert 2.0 on the roster making a few million a year (Walker Kessler) along with all our picks. Maybe we still trade KAT to build around the Ant timeline, but we wouldn’t need to financially. As is, we have 90-110m wrapped up in three guys whose best position is center.

I don’t think we trade KAT now bc there is no deal out there that makes us cheaper but still gives us equivalent talent. Scoot was the hope but Portland wisely declined.

So we’ll play it out. I truly hope it all clicks bc of it doesn’t, I feel like financially our hand will be forced and we’ll move KAT for pennies on the dollar at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Ya the Gobert really set this team back, not even in hindsight but when the deal was made last summer most viewed it as a bad trade and more so fit long term. I get we didn't know what Kessler would be his rookie season but him playing the way he did and adding on how Gobert didn't play up to his standard really was a gut punch.

I don't disagree with the idea from Connelly of going all in and take a big swing to make us a legit title contender or at least thinking so but to do that for Gobert who plays the same position as Towns was and awful take, the idea of going the PG route was the move to make(again rumored we went hard for Murray and then switch to Gobert). Now would Murray be worth everything we trade for Gobert NO but I could see the fit and reasoning a lot more.

Murray
Edwards
McDaniels
Towns
Kessler

To me that makes a lot more sense and more of a fit then what we have now.

[KGdaBom]

Insanity that people wouldn't trade kat for lillard. Dame is one of the great playoff performers of the past 30 years and kat is the exact opposite. If you swapped out kat for dame this past series against the Nuggets they go at least 6 games and could of easily won

thought it was odd too, i get the age thing but Lillard is the same age as Chris Paul when he went to Houston, he'd be one of the most likely players ever to age well with his shooting, he'll probably just not go to the line as much as he gets older

I am curious what guards people would trade KAT for if not Lillard
SGA?
Ja?
Fox?
Haliburton?
Garland?
Ball?
Brown?
Mitchell?

I would trade Towns for pretty much everyone listed.I would also throw in Ingram(I know not a guard) and even Maxey with added pieces from the 76ers.

Again not a fan of have so much money tied up between a handful of players who haven't proven much with little room for improvement. I would much rather have a team built around two MAX or even Super Max players then the three we currently have right now.

You beyond obviously have a very low opinion of KAT if you would trade him for any and all of those guys. Garland and Fox??????? Psycho Ja??????????

[MN7725]

I think this all shows how catastrophic the Gobert deal was. Instead of cap hell, we could have Gobert 2.0 on the roster making a few million a year (Walker Kessler) along with all our picks. Maybe we still trade KAT to build around the Ant timeline, but we wouldn’t need to financially. As is, we have 90-110m wrapped up in three guys whose best position is center.

I don’t think we trade KAT now bc there is no deal out there that makes us cheaper but still gives us equivalent talent. Scoot was the hope but Portland wisely declined.

So we’ll play it out. I truly hope it all clicks bc of it doesn’t, I feel like financially our hand will be forced and we’ll move KAT for pennies on the dollar at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Ya the Gobert really set this team back, not even in hindsight but when the deal was made last summer most viewed it as a bad trade and more so fit long term. I get we didn't know what Kessler would be his rookie season but him playing the way he did and adding on how Gobert didn't play up to his standard really was a gut punch.

I don't disagree with the idea from Connelly of going all in and take a big swing to make us a legit title contender or at least thinking so but to do that for Gobert who plays the same position as Towns was and awful take, the idea of going the PG route was the move to make(again rumored we went hard for Murray and then switch to Gobert). Now would Murray be worth everything we trade for Gobert NO but I could see the fit and reasoning a lot more.

Murray
Edwards
McDaniels
Towns
Kessler

To me that makes a lot more sense and more of a fit then what we have now.

I'm not a Murray fan, but I firmly believe that going from Russell to Murray would have helped Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from JV to Gobert. Wolves biggest rebounding problem was how poor the guards and wings were at it (Russell, ANT, Prince, Jaden, etc)

[Wolves21]

I think this all shows how catastrophic the Gobert deal was. Instead of cap hell, we could have Gobert 2.0 on the roster making a few million a year (Walker Kessler) along with all our picks. Maybe we still trade KAT to build around the Ant timeline, but we wouldn’t need to financially. As is, we have 90-110m wrapped up in three guys whose best position is center.

I don’t think we trade KAT now bc there is no deal out there that makes us cheaper but still gives us equivalent talent. Scoot was the hope but Portland wisely declined.

So we’ll play it out. I truly hope it all clicks bc of it doesn’t, I feel like financially our hand will be forced and we’ll move KAT for pennies on the dollar at the trade deadline or next offseason.

Ya the Gobert really set this team back, not even in hindsight but when the deal was made last summer most viewed it as a bad trade and more so fit long term. I get we didn't know what Kessler would be his rookie season but him playing the way he did and adding on how Gobert didn't play up to his standard really was a gut punch.

I don't disagree with the idea from Connelly of going all in and take a big swing to make us a legit title contender or at least thinking so but to do that for Gobert who plays the same position as Towns was and awful take, the idea of going the PG route was the move to make(again rumored we went hard for Murray and then switch to Gobert). Now would Murray be worth everything we trade for Gobert NO but I could see the fit and reasoning a lot more.

Murray
Edwards
McDaniels
Towns
Kessler

To me that makes a lot more sense and more of a fit then what we have now.

I'm not a Murray fan, but I firmly believe that going from Russell to Murray would have helped Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from JV to Gobert. Wolves biggest rebounding problem was how poor the guards and wings were at it (Russell, ANT, Prince, Jaden, etc)

The fit would have been so much better and I can't believe the trade package we gave up for Gobert would have been that steep for Murray.

[KGdaBom]

I think this all shows how catastrophic the Gobert deal was. Instead of cap hell, we could have Gobert 2.0 on the roster making a few million a year (Walker Kessler) along with all our picks. Maybe we still trade KAT to build around the Ant timeline, but we wouldn’t need to financially. As is, we have 90-110m wrapped up in three guys whose best position is center.

I don’t think we trade KAT now bc there is no deal out there that makes us cheaper but still gives us equivalent talent. Scoot was the hope but Portland wisely declined.

So we’ll play it out. I truly hope it all clicks bc of it doesn’t, I feel like financially our hand will be forced and we’ll move KAT for pennies on the dollar at the trade deadline or next offseason.

my thing pre-Gobert trade is that the Wolves needed to upgrade their guards/ playmaking wings besides ANT, by far the weakness of the team, its still the case but now they have no ammo to do that

its possible that Jaden can still take a big leap offensively, but its probably more likely he won't than he will become a player that can "get a bucket" in a tight, playoff series environment

even if it "clicks", I just don't seem the Wolves winning a playoff series, there was a reason they collapsed all those big leads against Memphis; when the game inevitably slows down in 4th quarters, they just don't have the shot creation outside ANT to get good looks against a set, half-court defense

hoping Jaden has it in him

When we traded for Gobert he was exactly what our team needed. He was one of the best rebounders in the league and a great defender. 3X DPoY. We had just been annihilated by Brandon Clarke in the Memphis series. Please no revisionist history on that part.

[Baseline81]

Insanity that people wouldn't trade kat for lillard. Dame is one of the great playoff performers of the past 30 years and kat is the exact opposite. If you swapped out kat for dame this past series against the Nuggets they go at least 6 games and could of easily won

thought it was odd too, i get the age thing but Lillard is the same age as Chris Paul when he went to Houston, he'd be one of the most likely players ever to age well with his shooting, he'll probably just not go to the line as much as he gets older

I am curious what guards people would trade KAT for if not Lillard
SGA? Yes, however, OKC would not move him.
Ja? No, I wouldn't want him on the Wolves.
Fox? Yes, however, Sacto would not make that trade as they extended Sabonis.
Haliburton? Yes, however, Indiana would not move him.
Garland? Yes, however, Cleveland already has Allen and Mobley.
Ball? Yes
Brown? Yes
Mitchell? No, he and Edwards would not work together.

See my comments in blue.

[KGdaBom]

Insanity that people wouldn't trade kat for lillard. Dame is one of the great playoff performers of the past 30 years and kat is the exact opposite. If you swapped out kat for dame this past series against the Nuggets they go at least 6 games and could of easily won

thought it was odd too, i get the age thing but Lillard is the same age as Chris Paul when he went to Houston, he'd be one of the most likely players ever to age well with his shooting, he'll probably just not go to the line as much as he gets older

I am curious what guards people would trade KAT for if not Lillard
SGA? Yes, however, OKC would not move him.
Ja? No, I wouldn't want him on the Wolves.
Fox? Yes, however, Sacto would not make that trade as they extended Sabonis.
Haliburton? Yes, however, Indiana would not move him.
Garland? Yes, however, Cleveland already has Allen and Mobley.
Ball? Yes
Brown? Yes
Mitchell? No, he and Edwards would not work together.

See my comments in blue.

I still don't know what Brown we are talking about? Can somebody enlighten me? My best guess is Jalen Brown. I would need several FRPs thrown in before I would trade KAT for that Brown.

[shrink]

I'm not a Murray fan, but I firmly believe that going from Russell to Murray would have helped Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from JV to Gobert. Wolves biggest rebounding problem was how poor the guards and wings were at it (Russell, ANT, Prince, Jaden, etc)

To me, Murray is exactly the type of guy that would not accept this as Ant’s team, even if he accepted coming here.

EDIT: My bad. I hear “Hawks” and all I can think of is Trae Young. I don’t think Dejounte Murray is the same caliber of player as KAT, but I don’t have any issues about his willingness to be part of a team.

[KGdaBom]

I'm not a Murray fan, but I firmly believe that going from Russell to Murray would have helped Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from JV to Gobert. Wolves biggest rebounding problem was how poor the guards and wings were at it (Russell, ANT, Prince, Jaden, etc)

To me, Murray is exactly the type of guy that would not accept this as Ant’s team, even if he accepted coming here.

I'm a huge Dejounte Murray fan. I would consider a KAT for Dejounte deal right now. We'd need a little sweetener.

[MN7725]

I'm not a Murray fan, but I firmly believe that going from Russell to Murray would have helped Wolves rebounding/defense issues more than going from JV to Gobert. Wolves biggest rebounding problem was how poor the guards and wings were at it (Russell, ANT, Prince, Jaden, etc)

To me, Murray is exactly the type of guy that would not accept this as Ant’s team, even if he accepted coming here.

like i said not a fan, wasn't gun ho when people like Zach Lowe were suggesting it last summer

but my point is that Russell spot was where the upgrade needed to happen, and whatever I don't like about Murray, he is a very good rebounder and defender for a guard, and I believe that would have helped Wolves than going from JV to Gobert

Beverly, Russell, ANT (who got better next season), Jaden, Prince, JMAC, Beasley were the worse rebounding guard/wing combo in the league, even though Beverly is quite good, everyone else in that rotation was embarrassingly bad

so I wasn't shocked when the Wolves were still horrific DREB most of the season, even after adding probably the best rebounder in Gobert

[Wolves21]

Edwards: 35.5m
Towns: 50m
Gobert: 43.8m
Naz: 14m
McDaniels: 25m

Estimating Jaden getting 25m to start on his extension, that means 168.3m will be allotted to three centers, Ant, and McDaniels.

I’ve seen estimates that the cap in 2024-25 will be 142m, lux tax 172m. Even if those estimates are slightly low, I just don’t see how this is feasible.

Trading KAT for Dame does not fix these problems. I only trade KAT if we get assets plus cap relief. And not minimal assets.

Yes trading KAT for Dame doesn't solve our cap issues but if McDaniels is included as well that would get us under(Ideally would find something else to go along with KAT) and I think next offseason would be the time to trade Gobert. Trade him hopefully for a starter,bench player and ideally a 1st round pick. Trade him to a team that has some cap room as well so we wouldn't have to take as much back.

[KGdaBom]

Edwards: 35.5m
Towns: 50m
Gobert: 43.8m
Naz: 14m
McDaniels: 25m

Estimating Jaden getting 25m to start on his extension, that means 168.3m will be allotted to three centers, Ant, and McDaniels.

I’ve seen estimates that the cap in 2024-25 will be 142m, lux tax 172m. Even if those estimates are slightly low, I just don’t see how this is feasible.

Trading KAT for Dame does not fix these problems. I only trade KAT if we get assets plus cap relief. And not minimal assets.

Yes trading KAT for Dame doesn't solve our cap issues but if McDaniels is included as well that would get us under(Ideally would find something else to go along with KAT) and I think next offseason would be the time to trade Gobert. Trade him hopefully for a starter,bench player and ideally a 1st round pick. Trade him to a team that has some cap room as well so we wouldn't have to take as much back.

You're proposing we trade KAT and McDaniels for Dame? Am I hearing you right?

[guest81]

I’m surprised by Wolves fans that want to trade Dame for KAT. KAT is 27 and his contract is though his prime. Lillard turns 33 in a couple weeks. Dame is a better player right now, but over the length of that deal, I think Towns will be a much better player.

This deal also makes our financial position weaker. Dame costs $9 mil more this year, even in 24-25, then $6 mil more in 25-26 and in 26-27. Towns has a PO in 27-28, but that’s a long time from now. If MIN trades Towns, it’s not going to be to get older and more expensive. Moreover, the internet fake trades I see having us take on 3 years of Nurkic as well, which is useless behind Gobert and Naz.

Btw, Towns is a pretty damn good pairing for Ant. He can easily score inside and outside, opening the floor for Ant’s inside and outside game. He also seems to prefer being a second banana, although this was usually not an option with years of bad talent beside him. He also wants to be here, and that’s critical compared to stars of this level who can force trades. Plus, any player of Towns talent that is brought in may not be comfortable letting this be Ant’s team - KAT seems exceptionally comfortable finally getting to be a second banana.

Where do you get this that Towns is comfortable being the second banana?

By watching his general malaise...?

He's been saying he's gonna change the game by the time he's retired, he's ripped ant for his eating habits, I haven't seen anything that says that he thinks he's the second banana

[guest81]

Must be desperate to talk about things. Kat is not going anywhere! I love Dame but he duplicates what Ant does. Kat is a much better fit here. Basketball is a team game where you have to go with pieces that fit. If any one player doesn't fit it's Rudy. If you are worried about money, you get rid of Rudy's money not Kat's.

Why get pippin, he just duplicates what mj does

[Wolves21]

Edwards: 35.5m
Towns: 50m
Gobert: 43.8m
Naz: 14m
McDaniels: 25m

Estimating Jaden getting 25m to start on his extension, that means 168.3m will be allotted to three centers, Ant, and McDaniels.

I’ve seen estimates that the cap in 2024-25 will be 142m, lux tax 172m. Even if those estimates are slightly low, I just don’t see how this is feasible.

Trading KAT for Dame does not fix these problems. I only trade KAT if we get assets plus cap relief. And not minimal assets.

Yes trading KAT for Dame doesn't solve our cap issues but if McDaniels is included as well that would get us under(Ideally would find something else to go along with KAT) and I think next offseason would be the time to trade Gobert. Trade him hopefully for a starter,bench player and ideally a 1st round pick. Trade him to a team that has some cap room as well so we wouldn't have to take as much back.

You're proposing we trade KAT and McDaniels for Dame? Am I hearing you right?

Ideally not,but would do it if we got something else back besides just Lillard. I think Towns for Lillard straight up is a fair deal from both sides.

[jpatrick]

Edwards: 35.5m
Towns: 50m
Gobert: 43.8m
Naz: 14m
McDaniels: 25m

Estimating Jaden getting 25m to start on his extension, that means 168.3m will be allotted to three centers, Ant, and McDaniels.

I’ve seen estimates that the cap in 2024-25 will be 142m, lux tax 172m. Even if those estimates are slightly low, I just don’t see how this is feasible.

Trading KAT for Dame does not fix these problems. I only trade KAT if we get assets plus cap relief. And not minimal assets.

Yes trading KAT for Dame doesn't solve our cap issues but if McDaniels is included as well that would get us under(Ideally would find something else to go along with KAT) and I think next offseason would be the time to trade Gobert. Trade him hopefully for a starter,bench player and ideally a 1st round pick. Trade him to a team that has some cap room as well so we wouldn't have to take as much back.

You're proposing we trade KAT and McDaniels for Dame? Am I hearing you right?

Yeah, that would be a no. I’m not down with a KAT for Dame deal because all trades should be to build around the Ant timeline, not getting older and acquiring a 32 year old. And I’m definitely not trading the only real asset that we have that is on that timeline, especially since I think McDaniels has more value than KAT right now, given their ages, contracts, and how McDaniels fits on every team while KAT does not.

[Baseline81]

Yes trading KAT for Dame doesn't solve our cap issues but if McDaniels is included as well that would get us under(Ideally would find something else to go along with KAT) and I think next offseason would be the time to trade Gobert. Trade him hopefully for a starter,bench player and ideally a 1st round pick. Trade him to a team that has some cap room as well so we wouldn't have to take as much back.

[guest81]

Insanity that people wouldn't trade kat for lillard. Dame is one of the great playoff performers of the past 30 years and kat is the exact opposite. If you swapped out kat for dame this past series against the Nuggets they go at least 6 games and could of easily won

thought it was odd too, i get the age thing but Lillard is the same age as Chris Paul when he went to Houston, he'd be one of the most likely players ever to age well with his shooting, he'll probably just not go to the line as much as he gets older

I am curious what guards people would trade KAT for if not Lillard
SGA?
Ja?
Fox?
Haliburton?
Garland?
Ball?
Brown?
Mitchell?

I would trade KAT for SGA, Haliburton, and Ball. Ja is psycho so no on him. Fox not good enough. Garland not good enough. What Brown are you talking about? Jalen Brown? Mitchell yeah maybe.

Ja is a psycho? Kat leads the league every year in fouls, complains more then anybody, says what the wolves did was more impressive then what the Nuggets did, says he won on every level except college. Kat is a crazy person