Anthony Edwards Thread: Part Two (Read First Post)

[Domejandro]

Extension done!
Up to 260M


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37953985/timberwolves-agree-5-year-extension-anthony-edwards

The moment he left that toxic sports agency (Klutch Sports), we knew he was committed as a Timberwolf!

He earned this bag and looking forward to the many all-star seasons to come for ANT!

What does Ant have to do to get the full $260 million?

If Anthony Edwards makes an All-NBA team, his max jumps from $216MM to $260MM.

[Baseline81]

In a statement, Edwards says: "I'm humbled, appreciative and excited to remain in Minnesota as a part of this incredible Timberwolves organization. It's amazing to see where hard work can take you."

[Slim Tubby]

The moment he left that toxic sports agency (Klutch Sports), we knew he was committed as a Timberwolf!

He earned this bag and looking forward to the many all-star seasons to come for ANT!

What does Ant have to do to get the full $260 million?

If Anthony Edwards makes an All-NBA team, his max jumps from $216MM to $260MM.

If ever we wanted the NBA media to continue to ignore the Wolves and it's players, 2023-24 would be it. It would equate to almost $9M less on average annually towards the cap/tax thresholds if I understand it correctly.

[life_saver]

I am selfishly hoping that Ant doesn't make All-NBA this season

[guest81]

If ant is an all nba player that means he's a top 10-15 player, and if that's the case then that probably means the wolves are damn good next year

[shrink]

A real coup for Connelly that this deal doesn’t have a player option at the end.

Connelly couldn’t say “no” if Ant demanded one, so this is a strong indication he’s happy here.

[TimberKat]

Could someone explain how Ant's max/supermax work? What I read seems to imply it's $260 if Ant makes all star any year during the contract. So if he earn all star in 4th year of the contract, we take a $50m cap hit on 5th year?

Here is the article :"The Atlanta native’s contract will start at 25% of the projected $149.6 million salary cap in 2024-25, about $37.4 million, and increase by 8% annually thereafter, unless he earns All-NBA, in which case the total contract value would jump up to $260 million and spread that increased cap hit throughout the remainder of the deal. Either way, his annual cap hit is not tied to a percentage of the salary cap beyond the first season, so the higher the salary cap jumps year-over-year, the better it is for the Timberwolves’ future financial flexibility."

[shrink]

Could someone explain how Ant's max/supermax work? What I read seems to imply it's $260 if Ant makes all star any year during the contract. So if he earn all star in 4th year of the contract, we take a $50m cap hit on 5th year?

Here is the article :"The Atlanta native’s contract will start at 25% of the projected $149.6 million salary cap in 2024-25, about $37.4 million, and increase by 8% annually thereafter, unless he earns All-NBA, in which case the total contract value would jump up to $260 million and spread that increased cap hit throughout the remainder of the deal. Either way, his annual cap hit is not tied to a percentage of the salary cap beyond the first season, so the higher the salary cap jumps year-over-year, the better it is for the Timberwolves’ future financial flexibility."

Sure. To get a supermax, a player needs to meet certain performance awards, like being named MVP, DPOY, or probably the easiest, to be named to the All NBA team two consecutive years.

Ant’s rising, but making All NBA is no sure thing, and it certainly is difficult to make it twice. Injuries, other players rising etc can hurt a player’s chances. For example, who’d have thought Devin Booker, who was first team All NBA in 2021-22, wouldn’t make the all NBA team in 22-23? Ant would need both by the time his new extension kicks in.

Basically a max deal is 25% of the cap, the supermax (here, the Designated Rookie Exception) would be 30% if he qualifies.

As for the last line in the article, two years from now Ant will either get “25% of 30% of whatever the cap ends up being in 2025.” The extension contract literally is written with those words, not numbers, right now. Once that first year salary is determined based on the cap, all the other numbers for future years will be written in, with raises limited to 8% of the previous year. Meanwhile, the growth of the overall NBA will likely be 10% salary cap rises. This means whatever percentage (25/30) of the cap Ant gets in his first year, those percentages will slightly decrease, because the raises won’t keep up with what a new DRE would get, with the higher cap figure.

[Neeva]

I am selfishly hoping that Ant doesn't make All-NBA this season

Same we would be in way better shape if Kat never made all NBA before.

[TimberKat]

Could someone explain how Ant's max/supermax work? What I read seems to imply it's $260 if Ant makes all star any year during the contract. So if he earn all star in 4th year of the contract, we take a $50m cap hit on 5th year?

Here is the article :"The Atlanta native’s contract will start at 25% of the projected $149.6 million salary cap in 2024-25, about $37.4 million, and increase by 8% annually thereafter, unless he earns All-NBA, in which case the total contract value would jump up to $260 million and spread that increased cap hit throughout the remainder of the deal. Either way, his annual cap hit is not tied to a percentage of the salary cap beyond the first season, so the higher the salary cap jumps year-over-year, the better it is for the Timberwolves’ future financial flexibility."

Sure. To get a supermax, a player needs to meet certain performance awards, like being named MVP, DPOY, or probably the easiest, to be named to the All NBA team two consecutive years.

Ant’s rising, but making All NBA is no sure thing, and it certainly is difficult to make it twice. Injuries, other players rising etc can hurt a player’s chances. For example, who’d have thought Devin Booker, who was first team All NBA in 2021-22, wouldn’t make the all NBA team in 22-23? Ant would need both by the time his new extension kicks in.

Basically a max deal is 30% of the cap, the supermax (here, the Designated Rookie Veteran Exception) would be 35%, if he qualifies.

I think All NBA is either current year or previous two years. So, in Ant's case, if he makes the All NBA in 23-24, he gets the supermax. If he doesn't, he gets the max contract for the duration of the entire contract. There is no change in the middle such as if he becomes MVP in 25-26, his contract turns into Supermax?

[shrink]

Could someone explain how Ant's max/supermax work? What I read seems to imply it's $260 if Ant makes all star any year during the contract. So if he earn all star in 4th year of the contract, we take a $50m cap hit on 5th year?

Here is the article :"The Atlanta native’s contract will start at 25% of the projected $149.6 million salary cap in 2024-25, about $37.4 million, and increase by 8% annually thereafter, unless he earns All-NBA, in which case the total contract value would jump up to $260 million and spread that increased cap hit throughout the remainder of the deal. Either way, his annual cap hit is not tied to a percentage of the salary cap beyond the first season, so the higher the salary cap jumps year-over-year, the better it is for the Timberwolves’ future financial flexibility."

Sure. To get a supermax, a player needs to meet certain performance awards, like being named MVP, DPOY, or probably the easiest, to be named to the All NBA team two consecutive years.

Ant’s rising, but making All NBA is no sure thing, and it certainly is difficult to make it twice. Injuries, other players rising etc can hurt a player’s chances. For example, who’d have thought Devin Booker, who was first team All NBA in 2021-22, wouldn’t make the all NBA team in 22-23? Ant would need both by the time his new extension kicks in.

Basically a max deal is 30% of the cap, the supermax (here, the Designated Rookie Veteran Exception) would be 35%, if he qualifies.

I think All NBA is either current year or previous two years. So, in Ant's case, if he makes the All NBA in 23-24, he gets the supermax. If he doesn't, he gets the max contract for the duration of the entire contract. There is no change in the middle such as if he becomes MVP in 25-26, his contract turns into Supermax?

There’s no change in the middle of the contract. Poor Pascal Siakim earned All NBA honors on 2019-20, and 2021-22, but his contract came due in 2020-21, so he was ineligible for the DVE supermax. Once the contract is signed and the numbers are in place, that’s what they are, so if he won an MVP this year, it wouldn’t help him.

(Also, please check my original post. I ended up editing it a bit).

[Murphs56]

There’s never any question about whether or not a high-level rookie will take their first max contract (if they play up to it). What in the world is this take?

I, too, have never understood this. When was the last time a rookie, not just in Minnesota, not agree to a max contract extension?

The only real drama you ever see is like what happened with Ayton but then the Suns just ended up matching the offer sheet the Pacers gave him anyway.

[Nick K]

I don't think non-Timberwolves fans realize just how good Ant has been in the playoffs. I've compiled some rankings for these playoffs with traditional and advanced stats. Both his traditional and advanced stats are phenomenal as well are his offensive and defensive stats. This man can do it all!

Good post! Appreciate it!

Now my biggest question is what is the best solution for MIN:

1) Ant and around him similar to current roster:

- elite defensive C Gobert
- an established second star Towns at PF
- elite defensive SF MCD
- veteran PG Conley
- solid backups Anderson, TP, Reid, NAW

This roster has two real problems: uncertainty at PG position and lack of elite shooter. Also this roster can financially work for next season, but there is no way to make it work after next season, after that we must replace backups with players on min contracts

- elite defensive C Gobert
- an established second star Towns at PF
- elite defensive SF MCD
- PG ???
- multiple players on min contracts

This roster has no depth, no starting PG and no assets to use (salary space, picks, young players who can be dealt)

2) Ant as first and only offensive star in heliocentric offense: we replace Towns with role players at around 30 mil

- elite defensive C Gobert
- Anderson type of veteran two way PF
- elite defensive SF MCD
- veteran PG Conley
- solid backups TP, Reid, NAW

This roster has same two problems: uncertainty at PG position and lack of elite shooter. But after Towns trade we can recoup some assets. We can get draft picks, and/or expiring contract, and even future starting PG. Two important things I have learned from Dane podcast about Scoot:

First, is that 2024 is expected to be weak. It basically says that it will not be surprise if we skip this draft, we should wait for any real help from drafted player at least TWO more seasons. That's a lot.
Second is that in every other draft without Wemby Scoot would have been considered as first pick. I don't get Scoot comparison as CP3 in Westbrook body. I don't see it now. But I can think about Edwards situation when many said that Edwards is raw, high volume, low efficiency scorer etc. But Edwards has been improving because of his desire to learn AND mentoring from Rubio, Beverley and hopefully Conley. If Scoot is made from the same material he will get to all star level in 2-3 years. Assuming that at least one year he will be playing with Conley I am okay with it. This first year is very important, I remember Edwards rookie year, dear Lord, he was awful at times, but off the court he was a student.

I see whole optimism from DEN playing well in Finals aka MIN gave DEN real problems, but if I understand correctly THAT roster with Reid playing for 2 mil, NAW on rookie deal doesn't exist. I mean even simple "run it back" is not possible for multiple reasons. Now we can "patch" this roster with temporary workarounds or be proactive and continue transition to a team with defensive minded identity.

----------------------------

"This roster has same two problems: uncertainty at PG position and lack of elite shooter."

I don't agree with any of this. KAT, the guy you want to trade is a career 52% shooter fg, 40% 3pt fg, 84% ft shooter. If that's not elite than I don't know what you expect. Then you want to trade KAT!!?? You will never get fair value for KAT. Quit listening to Dane. Ant can shoot 46% fg, 37% 3pt, 75% ft, and he's improving. McD shot 53% fg, 38% 3pt and 73% ft. He's improving too.

Why the uncertainty at PG? Mike Conley is the perfect PG for this team. Decent numbers too and I see him playing at least 3 more years at his current level. He shot 43% fg, 38% 3pt, and 83% ft's. These numbers are right around his career numbers.

I don't understand why people want to break this team up now. We have a team capable of going a long way. On paper were maybe the best team we've ever had.

I get the cap numbers and all I know is you keep your best players and cull the rest. If you need to save money it's Rudy out the door first because his limited skill set is easiest to replace. Rudy was no DPOY last year. I've said this before, I would stop trying to make Rudy an offensive star. Just have him rebound, blk shots, rim protect and dunk the ball. That's it. 41 million for that seems crazy to me.

Let's see how this year plays out and then look at it next year.

Once again people they are NOT trading Towns this year people no matter how much Dane wants them too. I used to read Dane all the time but he was rarely right about anything important. These guys have nothing better to do than stir the pot to get listeners.

[Nick K]

I agree with you guys. If we don't get a crazy offer for KAT, then we shouldgo and make a run. Specially if we can keep Naz. Ant and McD will continue to improve and ANT might be superstar level already. If KAT is at the same level he was 2 years ago and Rudy back to his JAzz level, we are quite good. I'm not worry about Mike, i follow him since he got draft and he is so serious and pro that he will be good this year and help the entire team to improve.

Here is an example of better teamwork next year:
4:21 1st QT Game4 - Murray has the ball with Martin on him and sees Vincent on Jokic at the elbow. Murray dribble to a spot and pass to Jokic. That is simple, smart, and winning basketball. Ant would try to drive pass Martin and waive off Towns/Gobert because they would be "in his way". Ant needs to be comfortable passing the ball inside.

If we look at Towns' stats, this is his worst year since his rookie year. He averages around 24 pts per game in the other 6 years. One injured year and he is wash up? It's not like he torn his ACL. If we trade him for a bunch of potentials and supporting cast, I will guarantee those same people who wants the trade would complain here about how we never have stars around Ant or Ant is not a team player that make others around him better.

Right on. No truer words spoken about the Kat situation. Haters hate and it's irrational.

Mike Conley is the perfect PG for this team.

[Klomp]

Watch on YouTube

[KGdaBom]

Watch on YouTube

I appreciated the Duh.. It's what I've been saying.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Great news. Team look really great right now.

[minimus]

"This roster has same two problems: uncertainty at PG position and lack of elite shooter."

I don't agree with any of this. KAT, the guy you want to trade is a career 52% shooter fg, 40% 3pt fg, 84% ft shooter. If that's not elite than I don't know what you expect. Then you want to trade KAT!!?? You will never get fair value for KAT. Quit listening to Dane. Ant can shoot 46% fg, 37% 3pt, 75% ft, and he's improving. McD shot 53% fg, 38% 3pt and 73% ft. He's improving too.

Why the uncertainty at PG? Mike Conley is the perfect PG for this team. Decent numbers too and I see him playing at least 3 more years at his current level. He shot 43% fg, 38% 3pt, and 83% ft's. These numbers are right around his career numbers.

I don't understand why people want to break this team up now. We have a team capable of going a long way. On paper were maybe the best team we've ever had.

I get the cap numbers and all I know is you keep your best players and cull the rest. If you need to save money it's Rudy out the door first because his limited skill set is easiest to replace. Rudy was no DPOY last year. I've said this before, I would stop trying to make Rudy an offensive star. Just have him rebound, blk shots, rim protect and dunk the ball. That's it. 41 million for that seems crazy to me.

Let's see how this year plays out and then look at it next year.

Once again people they are NOT trading Towns this year people no matter how much Dane wants them too. I used to read Dane all the time but he was rarely right about anything important. These guys have nothing better to do than stir the pot to get listeners.

Lets put it this way: there are reasons to be optimistic and there are pessimistic.

1) basketball reasons to be optimistic:

- Conley is exactly that type of PG who can make it work
- MIN were 50% wins team playing through complete chaos: injuries, scandals and DLo trade
- Edwards, MCD are improving
- we have now deep balanced roster
- Towns is an elite shooter through his career
- we gave DEN hard fight despite being w/o MCD, Reid

2) basketball reasons to be pessimistic:

- Gobert is 31 yo. Never was fully heathy last season. Now he will play World Cup in 2023 and Olympic Games in 2024
- Towns have been having bad luck with injures, there is always an injury risk because of his weird movements, lack of body control
- Conley is 35yo, and have long injury log
- Towns underperforms as PF, gets exposed again mobile PF who can shoot (trend that we will only see growing in current NBA), cant punish smaller opponent in post
- in offense I truly believe that you can get a better fit at PF than Towns at 50+ mil per year (and I still think that Towns is an elite big at С in five-out) Let say DFS (13mil) + Cameron Johnson (27mil), this combo gives the same elite shooting, plus good defense
- DEN won 4-1, we did not dominate in any way

3) non basketball reasons to be pessimistic:

- new CBA is built against teams like MIN, I have problems with owners paying tax, but this is different because 2nd apron limits our way to improve roster to retaining own free agents (drafted players). Which leads us to the next problem
- we traded our flexibility (multiple FRPs) to get Gobert, because of Stepien rule we wont be able to operate with our picks for next 5-6 years
- Towns supermax after 2023-24 season will make him difficult to trade, match
- three problems above are compounding, which make Gobert trade a disaster to manage our roster in the future. For instance, after next season there is no money for Anderson, Conley
- no one knows what happens when Lore and ARod will receive first tax bill. It will be first reality check
- Beal, Collins were traded for peanuts. There is no market for underperforming stars on big contracts

To sum up: everyone can choose his side. I dont want Towns-Dame here, I dont want only late picks to recoup draft assets. My idea is to bring expiring contract, an elite shooter or PG prospect who can be developed and/or picks. I see value in Anfernee Simons, Tyler Herro, Cameron Johnson, Scoot, Brandon Miller, Jabari Smith, Cason Wallace

[Klomp]

- new CBA is built against teams like MIN, I have problems with owners paying tax, but this is different because 2nd apron limits our way to improve roster to retaining own free agents (drafted players). Which leads us to the next problem
- we traded our flexibility (multiple FRPs) to get Gobert, because of Stepien rule we wont be able to operate with our picks for next 5-6 years
- Towns supermax after 2023-24 season will make him difficult to trade, match
- three problems above are compounding, which make Gobert trade a disaster to manage our roster in the future. For instance, after next season there is no money for Anderson, Conley
- no one knows what happens when Lore and ARod will receive first tax bill. It will be first reality check
- Beal, Collins were traded for peanuts. There is no market for underperforming stars on big contracts

To sum up: everyone can choose his side. I dont want Towns-Dame here, I dont want only late picks to recoup draft assets. My idea is to bring expiring contract, an elite shooter or PG prospect who can be developed and/or picks. I see value in Anfernee Simons, Tyler Herro, Cameron Johnson, Scoot, Brandon Miller, Jabari Smith, Cason Wallace

I don't want to continue this thread further off-topic, but part of the smarts behind the free agency signings we made is that collectively they can make up a good chunk of what we may lose in Conley and/or Anderson. I feel much more secure about two seasons from now than I was before free agency.

[TimberKat]

2) basketball reasons to be pessimistic:

- Gobert is 31 yo. Never was fully heathy last season. Now he will play World Cup in 2023 and Olympic Games in 2024
lots of players in those game, don't see any worry/issue
- Towns have been having bad luck with injures, there is always an injury risk because of his weird movements, lack of body control
Gobert playing center is supposed to help with that
- Conley is 35yo, and have long injury log
This is one area we definitely need to improve. But not end of the world
- Towns underperforms as PF, gets exposed again mobile PF who can shoot (trend that we will only see growing in current NBA), cant punish smaller opponent in post
yes, I do expect to see improvement
- in offense I truly believe that you can get a better fit at PF than Towns at 50+ mil per year (and I still think that Towns is an elite big at С in five-out) Let say DFS (13mil) + Cameron Johnson (27mil), this combo gives the same elite shooting, plus good defense
I actually like Towns to guard 4s instead of center. We run mostly the same offense as with Vanderbilt, so no issue here
- DEN won 4-1, we did not dominate in any way
We were without two key players. Towns wasn't 100%, No one to match up with Porter. I worry more if I am the Lakers, GSW, Clippers, Grizzlies and Heat
3) basketball reasons to be pessimistic:

- new CBA is built against teams like MIN, I have problems with owners paying tax, but this is different because 2nd apron limits our way to improve roster to retaining own free agents (drafted players). Which leads us to the next problem
Sorry, I didn't know it was your money. Which free agent of ours that you want to retain and we didn't? We even kept JMcL. I worry more about players don't want to be here like Westbrook, Gordon, and Watanabe
- we traded our flexibility (multiple FRPs) to get Gobert, because of Stepien rule we wont be able to operate with our picks for next 5-6 years
Are we a better team right now if you have the picks back? The only reason it's a yes was somehow we got luck with Kessler draft. But if you want all out on five out playing style anyway, then you would not had drafted Kessler. It would had been Tyty or David Roddy
- Towns supermax after 2023-24 season will make him difficult to trade, match
For most of the trades that was proposed, I see no difficulty to pull them off anytime
- For instance, after next season there is no money for Anderson, Conley
Do you really want Conley after next season? Those guys are going to get the Westbrook treatment
- no one knows what happens when Lore and ARod will receive first tax bill. It will be first reality check
So make the trades then, why can't Towns' value go up or just salary dump Gobert if you think he is horrible?
- Beal, Collins were traded for peanuts. There is no market for underperforming stars on big contracts
all the trades that were proposed were peanuts anyway; undervalued Towns and better to keep him.

To sum up: everyone can choose his side. I dont want Towns-Dame here, I dont want only late picks to recoup draft assets. My idea is to bring expiring contract, an elite shooter or PG prospect who can be developed and/or picks. I see value in Anfernee Simons, Tyler Herro, Cameron Johnson, Scoot, Brandon Miller, Jabari Smith, Cason Wallace

See my inline comments in bold above. I think you worry too much.

The bigger problem I see is we have too much talent and don't know what to do. It's not normal for Minnesota team to think win now. It's always get picks and we will be good 3 years down the road. We been on that path for 30 years. Going round and round in the desert. Let's operate like the Suns or GS, or Lakers. Maybe we will get to the promise land for once.