Would you trade Maxey for Lillard? (Poll)

[mjkvol]

Aaron Gordon on most nights. Doesn't necessarily mean pure scoring output.

Aaron Gordon is the same tier of player as Tobias Harris. So the point mjkvol makes is a good one. Denver had only 2 "stars" and a bunch of complimentary role players that are young and athletic surrounding them. They just had a dominant title run with that roster construction yet these Dame lovers can't seem to grasp that's a good way to build a roster.

I think the flaw here is people are assuming Maxey will be Jamal Murray next season just because Denver just won with Murray and Jokic. Murray is 26 and just entering his prime while Maxey is only 22. It's a lot to ask a 22-year-old to be the 2nd best player on a championship team.

I'm assuming nothing. Embiid and Maxey are different players than Jokic and Murray - the point is to build around them the way Denver is building around their two main guys, by finding undervalued role players, and undrafted and drafted players who might be a second chance away. Building quality depth, not stacking "stars" - those days are over, especially with the new CBA.

The way I'm suggesting takes a lot of work and patience, the right people at the top, and buy-in from the entire organization. Here, it would require stopping the merry-go-round of personnel changes at the top and losing the 'win now' mentality. It's not likely to happen here, but there are several mid and small market teams making the concept work as we speak.

[Arsenal]

I think the flaw here is people are assuming Maxey will be Jamal Murray next season just because Denver just won with Murray and Jokic. Murray is 26 and just entering his prime while Maxey is only 22. It's a lot to ask a 22-year-old to be the 2nd best player on a championship team.

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Who knows? According to your logic he has many years of impact play left before he declines considering how little basketball he's actually played. Feel free to tell us how many minutes Embiid has played in his career and life thus far. I'm sure it's nowhere near how much any other stars his age have played, considering he sat out 2 years, most of a 3rd, and didn't even start playing the game until his teens.

Tired of people justifying desperate win-now moves based on Embiid's hypothetical window.

[mjkvol]

I think the flaw here is people are assuming Maxey will be Jamal Murray next season just because Denver just won with Murray and Jokic. Murray is 26 and just entering his prime while Maxey is only 22. It's a lot to ask a 22-year-old to be the 2nd best player on a championship team.

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Who knows? A better question to me would be can Embiid become a smarter and more efficient player as he ages? If the answer to that is yes, then he can be a foundation piece into his mid '30's ala Duncan. If it is no, he will probably flame out in the next 3-4 years.

My hope is that Nurse can help him become that smarter, more efficient player who thrives in big spots. I couldn't care less about MVP's - we've seen how far that gets us.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Who knows? According to your logic he has many years of impact play left before he declines considering how little basketball he's actually played. Feel free to tell us how many minutes Embiid has played in his career and life thus far. I'm sure it's nowhere near how much any other stars his age have played, considering he sat out 2 years, most of a 3rd, and didn't even start playing the game until his teens.

Tired of people justifying desperate win-now moves based on Embiid's hypothetical window.

Luckily for you, we have historical precedence to answer that question since you have no mind to even attempt to answer.

The MVP has only been won by players over 31 years-old five times: Kareem 1x, Malone 2x, and Jordan 2x. Three more players have won it over age 30: Nash x1, Hakeem x1, and Wilt x1.

This will be Embiid's age 29 season. So, if we're going off of historical data, which doesn't exclude anything out of the norm from happening, then Embiid likely has two to three seasons left of MVP-caliber play. So, this isn't a hypothetical window. This is a real tangible window that every star player experiences.

[eyeatoma]

I mean, we JUST traded for a 32-year-old FORMER MVP who was levels above what Dame Lillard ever was. And it didn't work.

So let's do it again with an even older, smaller, worse player with possibly the worst contract in the league for the next 4 years attached, this time giving away our last young stud on the rise.

Make it make sense.

One big difference - Dame has played 10,000 fewer career minutes than Harden. I would probably liken a Dame acquisition to when Harden was traded to Brooklyn rather than to us.

I think the happy medium is turning Harden into a different 3rd banana to pair with Maxey/Embiid.

On the other hand, if we traded Maxey/Harden/Harris for Dame + *strong* depth/picks, I would also be happy. Dame in his current form would probably be the best co-star he's ever had.

That 10,000 mins number is misleading because Harden came out of college two years earlier than Lillard did. So add the extra 2 years of college mins for Dame and it's much closer. Plus aging and losing athleticism is potentially a bigger problem for a smaller, quicker guy like Dame than it was for Harden, who is much bigger and never relied much on athleticism to begin with.

Lillard doesn't either. He's mainly a pullup shooter.

[eyeatoma]

I think the flaw here is people are assuming Maxey will be Jamal Murray next season just because Denver just won with Murray and Jokic. Murray is 26 and just entering his prime while Maxey is only 22. It's a lot to ask a 22-year-old to be the 2nd best player on a championship team.

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

No major injury?

3

[ProcessDoctor]

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

No major injury?

3

Ding ding ding. And history supports that.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Who knows? A better question to me would be can Embiid become a smarter and more efficient player as he ages? If the answer to that is yes, then he can be a foundation piece into his mid '30's ala Duncan. If it is no, he will probably flame out in the next 3-4 years.

My hope is that Nurse can help him become that smarter, more efficient player who thrives in big spots. I couldn't care less about MVP's - we've seen how far that gets us.

Embiid is nothing like Duncan in terms of playstyle, durability, or personality. People have been dying for that comparison to work since the Brett Brown days and it just isn't there. Never was and never will be.

[Arsenal]

One big difference - Dame has played 10,000 fewer career minutes than Harden. I would probably liken a Dame acquisition to when Harden was traded to Brooklyn rather than to us.

I think the happy medium is turning Harden into a different 3rd banana to pair with Maxey/Embiid.

On the other hand, if we traded Maxey/Harden/Harris for Dame + *strong* depth/picks, I would also be happy. Dame in his current form would probably be the best co-star he's ever had.

That 10,000 mins number is misleading because Harden came out of college two years earlier than Lillard did. So add the extra 2 years of college mins for Dame and it's much closer. Plus aging and losing athleticism is potentially a bigger problem for a smaller, quicker guy like Dame than it was for Harden, who is much bigger and never relied much on athleticism to begin with.

Lillard doesn't either. He's mainly a pullup shooter.

Shooting is heavily reliant on the power generated by your lower body. When your athleticism declines, so will your shot, along with your ability to get to the rim which creates even more problems for your shooting as defenders can crowd you on the perimeter.

[Ferry Avenue]

I think the flaw here is people are assuming Maxey will be Jamal Murray next season just because Denver just won with Murray and Jokic. Murray is 26 and just entering his prime while Maxey is only 22. It's a lot to ask a 22-year-old to be the 2nd best player on a championship team.

I think the real flaw here is that people are ridiculously overestimating the chances of a 33-year-old Dame + Embiid winning a title if Maxey has to go in the deal.

Why do we have to sacrifice our future for a (maybe) slightly better chance next year, then probably a worse chance every year after?

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Ironically Embiid will probably have more value when he's NOT an MVP-caliber player, because at that point both he and the organization for which he's playing will likely gladly accept for him the complementary role any center not named Jokic should be in, in today's NBA, as opposed to trying to build a team around him as the focal point.

[Arsenal]

Genuine question: how many years do you think Embiid has left as an MVP-caliber player?

Who knows? According to your logic he has many years of impact play left before he declines considering how little basketball he's actually played. Feel free to tell us how many minutes Embiid has played in his career and life thus far. I'm sure it's nowhere near how much any other stars his age have played, considering he sat out 2 years, most of a 3rd, and didn't even start playing the game until his teens.

Tired of people justifying desperate win-now moves based on Embiid's hypothetical window.

Luckily for you, we have historical precedence to answer that question since you have no mind to even attempt to answer.

The MVP has only been won by players over 31 years-old five times: Kareem 1x, Malone 2x, and Jordan 2x. Three more players have won it over age 30: Nash x1, Hakeem x1, and Wilt x1.

This will be Embiid's age 29 season. So, if we're going off of historical data, which doesn't exclude anything out of the norm from happening, then Embiid likely has two to three seasons left of MVP-caliber play. So, this isn't a hypothetical window. This is a real tangible window that every star player experiences.

When it's convenient for your argument you use the players age (Joel). Otherwise when you want to excuse a players age (Dame), you shift to worrying about minutes played.

Do you think you're fooling anyone with this?

[eyeatoma]

That 10,000 mins number is misleading because Harden came out of college two years earlier than Lillard did. So add the extra 2 years of college mins for Dame and it's much closer. Plus aging and losing athleticism is potentially a bigger problem for a smaller, quicker guy like Dame than it was for Harden, who is much bigger and never relied much on athleticism to begin with.

Lillard doesn't either. He's mainly a pullup shooter.

Shooting is heavily reliant on the power generated by your lower body. When your athleticism declines, so will your shot, along with your ability to get to the rim which creates even more problems for your shooting as defenders can crowd you on the perimeter.

Steph is more injury prone and has lasted a long time. Lillard was an iron man before the abdominal injury. He was fine last year. Harden's game was heavily predicated on getting to the line.

[eyeatoma]

That 10,000 mins number is misleading because Harden came out of college two years earlier than Lillard did. So add the extra 2 years of college mins for Dame and it's much closer. Plus aging and losing athleticism is potentially a bigger problem for a smaller, quicker guy like Dame than it was for Harden, who is much bigger and never relied much on athleticism to begin with.

Lillard doesn't either. He's mainly a pullup shooter.

Shooting is heavily reliant on the power generated by your lower body. When your athleticism declines, so will your shot, along with your ability to get to the rim which creates even more problems for your shooting as defenders can crowd you on the perimeter.

I just find it odd that right after his best season in his career that you choose for his drop off to occur. Apart from age what other evidence about Lillard do you have that he's about to fall off a cliff. Forget history, I'm talking specifically about Lillard.

[ProcessDoctor]

Who knows? According to your logic he has many years of impact play left before he declines considering how little basketball he's actually played. Feel free to tell us how many minutes Embiid has played in his career and life thus far. I'm sure it's nowhere near how much any other stars his age have played, considering he sat out 2 years, most of a 3rd, and didn't even start playing the game until his teens.

Tired of people justifying desperate win-now moves based on Embiid's hypothetical window.

Luckily for you, we have historical precedence to answer that question since you have no mind to even attempt to answer.

The MVP has only been won by players over 31 years-old five times: Kareem 1x, Malone 2x, and Jordan 2x. Three more players have won it over age 30: Nash x1, Hakeem x1, and Wilt x1.

This will be Embiid's age 29 season. So, if we're going off of historical data, which doesn't exclude anything out of the norm from happening, then Embiid likely has two to three seasons left of MVP-caliber play. So, this isn't a hypothetical window. This is a real tangible window that every star player experiences.

When it's convenient for your argument you use the players age (Joel). Otherwise when you want to excuse a players age (Dame), you shift to worrying about minutes played.

Do you think you're fooling anyone with this?

LOL yea Joel has fewer minutes played because he's been INJURED. The exact long-term thing we should be worried about with him. That part should be crystal clear to everyone.

Do you really think Joel has the longevity of the aforementioned players? Mailman, Wilt, and Kareem were ironmen. Jordan is the GOAT. Joel can't even get through the playoffs without getting injured. I'd bet my house that Joel has no shot at winning an MVP in 4 years.

[Arsenal]

Luckily for you, we have historical precedence to answer that question since you have no mind to even attempt to answer.

The MVP has only been won by players over 31 years-old five times: Kareem 1x, Malone 2x, and Jordan 2x. Three more players have won it over age 30: Nash x1, Hakeem x1, and Wilt x1.

This will be Embiid's age 29 season. So, if we're going off of historical data, which doesn't exclude anything out of the norm from happening, then Embiid likely has two to three seasons left of MVP-caliber play. So, this isn't a hypothetical window. This is a real tangible window that every star player experiences.

When it's convenient for your argument you use the players age (Joel). Otherwise when you want to excuse a players age (Dame), you shift to worrying about minutes played.

Do you think you're fooling anyone with this?

LOL yea Joel has fewer minutes played because he's been INJURED. The exact long-term thing we should be worried about with him. That part should be crystal clear to everyone.

Do you really think Joel has the longevity of the aforementioned players? Mailman, Wilt, and Kareem were ironmen. Jordan is the GOAT. Joel can't even get through the playoffs without getting injured. I'd bet my house that Joel has no shot at winning an MVP in 4 years.

Give me a break. Where's your concern about how LIllard only played 58 games last year and only 29 the year before when he was awful. Guys start breaking down as they get further into their 30s.

Or is Damian Lillard magically going to become an iron man at age 33?

[ProcessDoctor]

When it's convenient for your argument you use the players age (Joel). Otherwise when you want to excuse a players age (Dame), you shift to worrying about minutes played.

Do you think you're fooling anyone with this?

LOL yea Joel has fewer minutes played because he's been INJURED. The exact long-term thing we should be worried about with him. That part should be crystal clear to everyone.

Do you really think Joel has the longevity of the aforementioned players? Mailman, Wilt, and Kareem were ironmen. Jordan is the GOAT. Joel can't even get through the playoffs without getting injured. I'd bet my house that Joel has no shot at winning an MVP in 4 years.

Give me a break. Where's your concern about how LIllard only played 58 games last year and only 29 the year before when he was awful. Guys start breaking down as they get further into their 30s.

Or is Damian Lillard magically going to become an iron man at age 33?

He was injured the year before and they sat him last year when they were eliminated from playoff contention. He easily could've played 70 games last season. He was an ironman before the abdominal injury. No magic, just eyes and context.

Jimmy, Steph, KD, and LeBron were all 33 or older last season and finished top-15 in BPM. So yea, I'd say Lillard coming off arguably his best season has roughly 2-3 years of All-NBA play left in the tank. We don't need him to be an MVP or in his prime, but we need him to still be an All-NBA level player. That 2-3 year period correlates with Embiid's MVP-level trajectory.

[Arsenal]

Lillard doesn't either. He's mainly a pullup shooter.

Shooting is heavily reliant on the power generated by your lower body. When your athleticism declines, so will your shot, along with your ability to get to the rim which creates even more problems for your shooting as defenders can crowd you on the perimeter.

I just find it odd that right after his best season in his career that you choose for his drop off to occur. Apart from age what other evidence about Lillard do you have that he's about to fall off a cliff. Forget history, I'm talking specifically about Lillard.

What do you mean "apart from age"? Are you magically going to trade for a 27-year-old Damian Lillard?

Players drop off as they go further into their 30's. It's called Father Time and like Chuck says, he's undefeated.

But apparently for Dame lovers the normal rules of aging don't apply, and he'll be amazing and lead us to titles from age 33 to 36.

[Arsenal]

I'll be very clear. If Dame was 27 or 28 I'd probably trade Maxey for him.

But at age 33? No chance in hell.

[eyeatoma]

Shooting is heavily reliant on the power generated by your lower body. When your athleticism declines, so will your shot, along with your ability to get to the rim which creates even more problems for your shooting as defenders can crowd you on the perimeter.

I just find it odd that right after his best season in his career that you choose for his drop off to occur. Apart from age what other evidence about Lillard do you have that he's about to fall off a cliff. Forget history, I'm talking specifically about Lillard.

What do you mean "apart from age"? Are you magically going to trade for a 27-year-old Damian Lillard?

Players drop off as they go further into their 30's. It's called Father Time and like Chuck says, he's undefeated.

But apparently for Dame lovers the normal rules of aging don't apply, and he'll be amazing and lead us to titles from age 33 to 36.

We need him at his prime for a year or 2. Based on past performance you should easily be able to get that, barring a major injury. I think you're being a bit hyperbolic.

[Arsenal]

I just find it odd that right after his best season in his career that you choose for his drop off to occur. Apart from age what other evidence about Lillard do you have that he's about to fall off a cliff. Forget history, I'm talking specifically about Lillard.

What do you mean "apart from age"? Are you magically going to trade for a 27-year-old Damian Lillard?

Players drop off as they go further into their 30's. It's called Father Time and like Chuck says, he's undefeated.

But apparently for Dame lovers the normal rules of aging don't apply, and he'll be amazing and lead us to titles from age 33 to 36.

We need him at his prime for a year or 2. Based on past performance you should easily be able to get that, barring a major injury. I think you're being a bit hyperbolic.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Especially when you're a 33-year-old NBA player. You do realize guys like Steph and LeBron are not the norm, right? Little guards especially fall off quick at that age.