2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

[SOUL]

Reaves and Herb are getting matched. It's not UFA money.

As for Coby White.. sure? I mean not sure what he does better than Cole.

[drsd]

Just realised that F-Wagner and Banchero are looking at 50M a year in their max contracts, each. Ooof.

[VFX]

Just realised that F-Wagner and Banchero are looking at 50M a year in their max contracts, each. Ooof.

How did you just realize this?

This is exactly the reason why people are talking about the cap/contract situation with the guards.

[pepe1991]

Just realised that F-Wagner and Banchero are looking at 50M a year in their max contracts, each. Ooof.

How did you just realize this?

This is exactly the reason why people are talking about the cap/contract situation with the guards.

This is execlly why so many of us find "evaluation" years as compelte and utter waste of time, knowing payday is comming and grace period window of rookie contracts is closing in

[VFX]

This is execlly why so many of us find "evaluation" years as compelte and utter waste of time, knowing payday is comming and grace period window of rookie contracts is closing in

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

[89Magicfan]

This is execlly why so many of us find "evaluation" years as compelte and utter waste of time, knowing payday is comming and grace period window of rookie contracts is closing in

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

What takes them a year or two to figure out takes some teams an off season to figure out.

[Anti Chalmers]

Just realised that F-Wagner and Banchero are looking at 50M a year in their max contracts, each. Ooof.

Yep I don’t see us being able to afford Fultz, Suggs, and Cole along with those 2.

[eyriq]

This is execlly why so many of us find "evaluation" years as compelte and utter waste of time, knowing payday is comming and grace period window of rookie contracts is closing in

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

I still don't get it. I suspect it's because it's not a thing.

[jezzerinho]

The cap is going up 10% a year for the next 5 yrs, unless there's another "China Crisis".

Even then, itll be hard to keep many ofnthe group together.

[MoMM]

Just realised that F-Wagner and Banchero are looking at 50M a year in their max contracts, each. Ooof.

How did you just realize this?

That's what Anthony Edwards just got...

[pepe1991]

This is execlly why so many of us find "evaluation" years as compelte and utter waste of time, knowing payday is comming and grace period window of rookie contracts is closing in

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

I still don't get it. I suspect it's because it's not a thing.

Mostly because vast majority of people don't understand how salary cap works and how exstensions are structured with percentage of cap. They think cap space going from $123 to some hypotetical $160M means Franz and/or Banchero would sign for $20M a year or hold belief that players will take "discount" while they can't grasp reality how Magic even had to overpay to keep broken Fultz after 1 mediocre year and for whatever reason showered Isaac in 4 years contract while guy had his knee exploded few weeks before they resigned him, despite fact he hardly ever played basketball prior latest knee explosion, prior resign.


In reality, designed max contracts take 25% of projected cap space for year when player is signed. So it really doesn't matter is salary cap $40M or $400 M, two designed max contracts esencially eat half of cap space.

If player becomes DPOY, all nba team member or MVP, they fall into Derrick Rose rule and they are granted for 30% of salary cap max exstension. So in some $140M league, that would mean that player average salary is $42 000 000 and 5 years contract of such player would be $210M . However, if you look at Lamelo,Haliburton and Edwards contracts, that money actually is bigger. There are stipulations in their contracts where they could make as much as $260M . Esencially Derick Rose rule, if there was anybody eligable today, would mean that rookie exstension would cost you as much as 5 years- $300M .



Esencially, after Franz in 2024 sigs his designed max, and Banchero does same in 2025, Magic will be capped out but also without ability to add new , young, designed max player via trade ( or sign anybody on it).

Once those things happend, your team becomes financial time bomb and you are in race against time to win championship or implode.

Bucks went from championship to... bloated $182M mess that is burning $23M a year on 35 years old Lopez and is re-singing Middelton in mid 30s to 3 years , $102M contract. All that while hardly having money to even fill 12 men roster.
At some point they will proabably trade Allen to save themselfs second upron of luxury tax (and got worst as team). It's insanity. Whole system is set to keep contender -contending to at mast 2-3 years before you need to burn whole thing down.

You can even watch Nuggets. It's just matter of time when one of MPJ, Murray, Gordon ( if not 2 out of 3) are traded for salary realief, all that, while getting worst than last year.

[VFX]

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

I still don't get it. I suspect it's because it's not a thing.

Mostly because vast majority of people don't understand how salary cap works and how exstensions are structured with percentage of cap. They think cap space going from $123 to some hypotetical $160M means Franz and/or Banchero would sign for $20M a year or hold belief that players will take "discount" while they can't grasp reality how Magic even had to overpay to keep broken Fultz after 1 mediocre year and for whatever reason showered Isaac in 4 years contract while guy had his knee exploded few weeks before they resigned him, despite fact he hardly ever played basketball prior latest knee explosion, prior resign.


In reality, designed max contracts take 25% of projected cap space for year when player is signed. So it really doesn't matter is salary cap $40M or $400 M, two designed max contracts esencially eat half of cap space.

If player becomes DPOY, all nba team member or MVP, they fall into Derrick Rose rule and they are granted for 30% of salary cap max exstension. So in some $140M league, that would mean that player average salary is $42 000 000 and 5 years contract of such player would be $210M . However, if you look at Lamelo,Haliburton and Edwards contracts, that money actually is bigger. There are stipulations in their contracts where they could make as much as $260M . Esencially Derick Rose rule, if there was anybody eligable today, would mean that rookie exstension would cost you as much as 5 years- $300M .



Esencially, after Franz in 2024 sigs his designed max, and Banchero does same in 2025, Magic will be capped out but also without ability to add new , young, designed max player via trade ( or sign anybody on it).

Once those things happend, your team becomes financial time bomb and you are in race against time to win championship or implode.

Bucks went from championship to... bloated $182M mess that is burning $23M a year on 35 years old Lopez and is re-singing Middelton in mid 30s to 3 years , $102M contract. All that while hardly having money to even fill 12 men roster.
At some point they will proabably trade Allen to save themselfs second upron of luxury tax (and got worst as team). It's insanity. Whole system is set to keep contender -contending to at mast 2-3 years before you need to burn whole thing down.

You can even watch Nuggets. It's just matter of time when one of MPJ, Murray, Gordon ( if not 2 out of 3) are traded for salary realief, all that, while getting worst than last year.

Basically this combined with the fact that everyone is hoping Black can be that 2nd/3rd star in Orlando.

With the new CBA you are handicapping your roster if you have 2-3ish max guys. Meaning you will not have a good deep bench or great role players. Moreover, this means that Paolo and Franz must be able to win a championship as your two best players.

What I’m talking about is maximizing rookie scale deals that eventually become huge contracts. Orlando must deal some players to maximize Black/Jett’s years in this scenario. Just another reason that “wait and see” works against common sense regarding roster construction.

The bottom line is that you cannot hand out these contracts to mid players expecting to move them in the future for decent value. You move them beforehand obviously. People proposing assets walking for nothing is equally dumb considering how much talent you need to retain to be competitive.

To bring it back to this thread, people are seriously suggesting Orlando goes after some max contract players for what? The go-to guys are still learning the game and a max-ish vet can only be around until Paolo/Franz are maxed otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

[eyriq]

There are like 10 people on this board that understand this.

I still don't get it. I suspect it's because it's not a thing.

Mostly because vast majority of people don't understand how salary cap works and how exstensions are structured with percentage of cap. They think cap space going from $123 to some hypotetical $160M means Franz and/or Banchero would sign for $20M a year or hold belief that players will take "discount" while they can't grasp reality how Magic even had to overpay to keep broken Fultz after 1 mediocre year and for whatever reason showered Isaac in 4 years contract while guy had his knee exploded few weeks before they resigned him, despite fact he hardly ever played basketball prior latest knee explosion, prior resign.


In reality, designed max contracts take 25% of projected cap space for year when player is signed. So it really doesn't matter is salary cap $40M or $400 M, two designed max contracts esencially eat half of cap space.

If player becomes DPOY, all nba team member or MVP, they fall into Derrick Rose rule and they are granted for 30% of salary cap max exstension. So in some $140M league, that would mean that player average salary is $42 000 000 and 5 years contract of such player would be $210M . However, if you look at Lamelo,Haliburton and Edwards contracts, that money actually is bigger. There are stipulations in their contracts where they could make as much as $260M . Esencially Derick Rose rule, if there was anybody eligable today, would mean that rookie exstension would cost you as much as 5 years- $300M .



Esencially, after Franz in 2024 sigs his designed max, and Banchero does same in 2025, Magic will be capped out but also without ability to add new , young, designed max player via trade ( or sign anybody on it).

Once those things happend, your team becomes financial time bomb and you are in race against time to win championship or implode.

Bucks went from championship to... bloated $182M mess that is burning $23M a year on 35 years old Lopez and is re-singing Middelton in mid 30s to 3 years , $102M contract. All that while hardly having money to even fill 12 men roster.
At some point they will proabably trade Allen to save themselfs second upron of luxury tax (and got worst as team). It's insanity. Whole system is set to keep contender -contending to at mast 2-3 years before you need to burn whole thing down.

You can even watch Nuggets. It's just matter of time when one of MPJ, Murray, Gordon ( if not 2 out of 3) are traded for salary realief, all that, while getting worst than last year.

So, here are the logical points it appears you are making:

1. Max contracts are a percentage of total cap space.
2. Tying up 50% of the cap on two players leaves a narrow window to fill out the rest of the roster.
3. Ongoing player development and evaluation is bad knowing we've two rising stars that will earn max contracts

Every team, regardless of how they tool the roster around two max contracts, is going to have to navigate these pressures. Effective cap management, prudent contract negotiations, strategic use of exceptions, and the development of cost-controlled talent through the draft are all key aspects of building and maintaining a successful team.

[ChosenSavior]

Bol Bol just got waived by the Magic per Woj

Read on Twitter

[Catledge]

I still don't get it. I suspect it's because it's not a thing.

Mostly because vast majority of people don't understand how salary cap works and how exstensions are structured with percentage of cap. They think cap space going from $123 to some hypotetical $160M means Franz and/or Banchero would sign for $20M a year or hold belief that players will take "discount" while they can't grasp reality how Magic even had to overpay to keep broken Fultz after 1 mediocre year and for whatever reason showered Isaac in 4 years contract while guy had his knee exploded few weeks before they resigned him, despite fact he hardly ever played basketball prior latest knee explosion, prior resign.


In reality, designed max contracts take 25% of projected cap space for year when player is signed. So it really doesn't matter is salary cap $40M or $400 M, two designed max contracts esencially eat half of cap space.

If player becomes DPOY, all nba team member or MVP, they fall into Derrick Rose rule and they are granted for 30% of salary cap max exstension. So in some $140M league, that would mean that player average salary is $42 000 000 and 5 years contract of such player would be $210M . However, if you look at Lamelo,Haliburton and Edwards contracts, that money actually is bigger. There are stipulations in their contracts where they could make as much as $260M . Esencially Derick Rose rule, if there was anybody eligable today, would mean that rookie exstension would cost you as much as 5 years- $300M .



Esencially, after Franz in 2024 sigs his designed max, and Banchero does same in 2025, Magic will be capped out but also without ability to add new , young, designed max player via trade ( or sign anybody on it).

Once those things happend, your team becomes financial time bomb and you are in race against time to win championship or implode.

Bucks went from championship to... bloated $182M mess that is burning $23M a year on 35 years old Lopez and is re-singing Middelton in mid 30s to 3 years , $102M contract. All that while hardly having money to even fill 12 men roster.
At some point they will proabably trade Allen to save themselfs second upron of luxury tax (and got worst as team). It's insanity. Whole system is set to keep contender -contending to at mast 2-3 years before you need to burn whole thing down.

You can even watch Nuggets. It's just matter of time when one of MPJ, Murray, Gordon ( if not 2 out of 3) are traded for salary realief, all that, while getting worst than last year.

Basically this combined with the fact that everyone is hoping Black can be that 2nd/3rd star in Orlando.

With the new CBA you are handicapping your roster if you have 2-3ish max guys. Meaning you will not have a good deep bench or great role players. Moreover, this means that Paolo and Franz must be able to win a championship as your two best players.

What I’m talking about is maximizing rookie scale deals that eventually become huge contracts. Orlando must deal some players to maximize Black/Jett’s years in this scenario. Just another reason that “wait and see” works against common sense regarding roster construction.

The bottom line is that you cannot hand out these contracts to mid players expecting to move them in the future for decent value. You move them beforehand obviously. People proposing assets walking for nothing is equally dumb considering how much talent you need to retain to be competitive.

To bring it back to this thread, people are seriously suggesting Orlando goes after some max contract players for what? The go-to guys are still learning the game and a max-ish vet can only be around until Paolo/Franz are maxed otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

So because Paolo and Franz will need extensions in a few years, we therefore need to hand the starting pg spot to a rookie? Am I missing a connection point?

[VFX]

Mostly because vast majority of people don't understand how salary cap works and how exstensions are structured with percentage of cap. They think cap space going from $123 to some hypotetical $160M means Franz and/or Banchero would sign for $20M a year or hold belief that players will take "discount" while they can't grasp reality how Magic even had to overpay to keep broken Fultz after 1 mediocre year and for whatever reason showered Isaac in 4 years contract while guy had his knee exploded few weeks before they resigned him, despite fact he hardly ever played basketball prior latest knee explosion, prior resign.


In reality, designed max contracts take 25% of projected cap space for year when player is signed. So it really doesn't matter is salary cap $40M or $400 M, two designed max contracts esencially eat half of cap space.

If player becomes DPOY, all nba team member or MVP, they fall into Derrick Rose rule and they are granted for 30% of salary cap max exstension. So in some $140M league, that would mean that player average salary is $42 000 000 and 5 years contract of such player would be $210M . However, if you look at Lamelo,Haliburton and Edwards contracts, that money actually is bigger. There are stipulations in their contracts where they could make as much as $260M . Esencially Derick Rose rule, if there was anybody eligable today, would mean that rookie exstension would cost you as much as 5 years- $300M .



Esencially, after Franz in 2024 sigs his designed max, and Banchero does same in 2025, Magic will be capped out but also without ability to add new , young, designed max player via trade ( or sign anybody on it).

Once those things happend, your team becomes financial time bomb and you are in race against time to win championship or implode.

Bucks went from championship to... bloated $182M mess that is burning $23M a year on 35 years old Lopez and is re-singing Middelton in mid 30s to 3 years , $102M contract. All that while hardly having money to even fill 12 men roster.
At some point they will proabably trade Allen to save themselfs second upron of luxury tax (and got worst as team). It's insanity. Whole system is set to keep contender -contending to at mast 2-3 years before you need to burn whole thing down.

You can even watch Nuggets. It's just matter of time when one of MPJ, Murray, Gordon ( if not 2 out of 3) are traded for salary realief, all that, while getting worst than last year.

Basically this combined with the fact that everyone is hoping Black can be that 2nd/3rd star in Orlando.

With the new CBA you are handicapping your roster if you have 2-3ish max guys. Meaning you will not have a good deep bench or great role players. Moreover, this means that Paolo and Franz must be able to win a championship as your two best players.

What I’m talking about is maximizing rookie scale deals that eventually become huge contracts. Orlando must deal some players to maximize Black/Jett’s years in this scenario. Just another reason that “wait and see” works against common sense regarding roster construction.

The bottom line is that you cannot hand out these contracts to mid players expecting to move them in the future for decent value. You move them beforehand obviously. People proposing assets walking for nothing is equally dumb considering how much talent you need to retain to be competitive.

To bring it back to this thread, people are seriously suggesting Orlando goes after some max contract players for what? The go-to guys are still learning the game and a max-ish vet can only be around until Paolo/Franz are maxed otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

So because Paolo and Franz will need extensions in a few years, we therefore need to hand the starting pg spot to a rookie? Am I missing a connection point?

Kinda?

If the FO extends both Fultz and Cole it is a bad move.

We now have Suggs for 2 more years on a rookie deal and Jett/AB at 4 years.

You cannot pay everyone knowing those 2 will sign max deals. The justification of doing so makes no sense. Telling yourself "they'll figure it out later" is a dumb argument.

[eyriq]

Basically this combined with the fact that everyone is hoping Black can be that 2nd/3rd star in Orlando.

With the new CBA you are handicapping your roster if you have 2-3ish max guys. Meaning you will not have a good deep bench or great role players. Moreover, this means that Paolo and Franz must be able to win a championship as your two best players.

What I’m talking about is maximizing rookie scale deals that eventually become huge contracts. Orlando must deal some players to maximize Black/Jett’s years in this scenario. Just another reason that “wait and see” works against common sense regarding roster construction.

The bottom line is that you cannot hand out these contracts to mid players expecting to move them in the future for decent value. You move them beforehand obviously. People proposing assets walking for nothing is equally dumb considering how much talent you need to retain to be competitive.

To bring it back to this thread, people are seriously suggesting Orlando goes after some max contract players for what? The go-to guys are still learning the game and a max-ish vet can only be around until Paolo/Franz are maxed otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

So because Paolo and Franz will need extensions in a few years, we therefore need to hand the starting pg spot to a rookie? Am I missing a connection point?

Kinda?

If the FO extends both Fultz and Cole it is a bad move.

We now have Suggs for 2 more years on a rookie deal and Jett/AB at 4 years.

You cannot pay everyone knowing those 2 will sign max deals. The justification of doing so makes no sense. Telling yourself "they'll figure it out later" is a dumb argument.

This literally makes no sense.

[VFX]

So because Paolo and Franz will need extensions in a few years, we therefore need to hand the starting pg spot to a rookie? Am I missing a connection point?

Kinda?

If the FO extends both Fultz and Cole it is a bad move.

We now have Suggs for 2 more years on a rookie deal and Jett/AB at 4 years.

You cannot pay everyone knowing those 2 will sign max deals. The justification of doing so makes no sense. Telling yourself "they'll figure it out later" is a dumb argument.

This literally makes no sense.

What are you confused about?

[zaymon]

Basically this combined with the fact that everyone is hoping Black can be that 2nd/3rd star in Orlando.

With the new CBA you are handicapping your roster if you have 2-3ish max guys. Meaning you will not have a good deep bench or great role players. Moreover, this means that Paolo and Franz must be able to win a championship as your two best players.

What I’m talking about is maximizing rookie scale deals that eventually become huge contracts. Orlando must deal some players to maximize Black/Jett’s years in this scenario. Just another reason that “wait and see” works against common sense regarding roster construction.

The bottom line is that you cannot hand out these contracts to mid players expecting to move them in the future for decent value. You move them beforehand obviously. People proposing assets walking for nothing is equally dumb considering how much talent you need to retain to be competitive.

To bring it back to this thread, people are seriously suggesting Orlando goes after some max contract players for what? The go-to guys are still learning the game and a max-ish vet can only be around until Paolo/Franz are maxed otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

So because Paolo and Franz will need extensions in a few years, we therefore need to hand the starting pg spot to a rookie? Am I missing a connection point?

Kinda?

If the FO extends both Fultz and Cole it is a bad move.

We now have Suggs for 2 more years on a rookie deal and Jett/AB at 4 years.

You cannot pay everyone knowing those 2 will sign max deals. The justification of doing so makes no sense. Telling yourself "they'll figure it out later" is a dumb argument.

Going by your logic burying young players on the bench, extending them for cheap and then starting seems like the best strategy. Hiding assets and lowering their value. Starting rookies increases their value, often well beyond their talent becouse they can get stats for free.
I think that your strategy contradicts points that you are making.

[eyriq]

Kinda?

If the FO extends both Fultz and Cole it is a bad move.

We now have Suggs for 2 more years on a rookie deal and Jett/AB at 4 years.

You cannot pay everyone knowing those 2 will sign max deals. The justification of doing so makes no sense. Telling yourself "they'll figure it out later" is a dumb argument.

This literally makes no sense.

What are you confused about?

The ideas don't connect.

Idea 1: Paolo and Franz are going to sign max extensions
Idea 2: Therefore we can't extend Fultz and Cole

They are literally independent. We can do both.

So what I'm confused about is why you think they are dependent.

A tangential point is that the meta of roster building is probably changing due to the new CBA. Players aren't leaving so much in free agency as they are leaving via trades. An example of this is the Utah Jazz, who just extended Jordan Clarkson. Roster spots that are tradeable are more valuable now then they were before, just as cap space is less valuable.