What's the strongest data-driven argument for Michael Jordan as GOAT?

ceiling raiser · Post #1 » by **ceiling raiser** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:30 pm

Feels like LeBron has overtaken him in communities like this. What do you think is Jordan's edge?

TheGeneral99 · Post #2 » by **TheGeneral99** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:37 pm

His peak regular season and playoff production on both ends edges Lebron while Lebron's longevity edges Jordan.

Look at some of MJ's prime years:

1987: 37, 5 and 5 with 3 steals, 1.5 blocks on 48% shooting.
1988: 35, 6 and 6 with 3 steals, 1.6 blocks on 54% shooting.
1989: 33, 8 and 8 with 3 steals, 1 block on 54% shooting.
1990: 34, 7 and 6 with 3 steals, 1 block on 53% shooting.
1991: 32, 6 and 6 with 3 steals, 1 block on 52% shooting.
1992: 30, 5 and 6 with 2 steals, 1 block on 52% shooting.
1993: 33, 7 and 5 with 2 steals, 1 block on 50% shooting.

His peak playoff stats also outshine Lebron.

1988: 36, 7 and 5 with 2 steals, 2 blocks on 53% shooting.
1989: 35, 7 and 8 with 2.5 steals, 1 block on 51% shooting.
1990: 37, 7 and 7 with 3 steals, 1 block on 51% shooting.
1991: 31, 6 and 8 with 2.4 steals, 1.4 blocks on 52% shooting.
1992: 35, 6 and 6 with 2 steals, 1 block on 50% shooting.
1993: 35, 7 and 6 with with 2 steals, 1 block on 48% shooting.

Absolutely insane.

And even more insane is that during his peak in 1993 he decided to retire for nearly 2 years.

dirkdiggler4177 · Post #3 » by **dirkdiggler4177** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:37 pm

One_and_Done · Post #4 » by **One_and_Done** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:40 pm

There isn't one.

TheGeneral99 · Post #5 » by **TheGeneral99** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:42 pm

One_and_Done wrote:There isn't one.

Go watch this video and rethink.

Watch on YouTube

Ray Donovan · Post #6 » by **Ray Donovan** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:44 pm

6 championships in 6 trips to Finals

SelfishPlayer · Post #7 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:47 pm

Jordan never made it past the first round of the playoffs without Pippen...

Lakers In 5 · Post #8 » by **Lakers In 5** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:48 pm

Jordan never lost in the Finals. Well, neither have I. 8-)

Pharmcat · Post #9 » by **Pharmcat** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:49 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:Jordan never made it past the first round of the playoffs without Pippen...

And pippen did without Jordan . So Jordan needed pippen more than pippen needed Jordan

ropjhk · Post #10 » by **ropjhk** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:54 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Jordan never made it past the first round of the playoffs without Pippen...

And pippen did without Jordan . So Jordan needed pippen more than pippen needed Jordan

It's official then. Pippen is the GOAT.

Charlesareed · Post #11 » by **Charlesareed** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:56 pm

LeBron is the better all around player he was labeled a pass first guy but he does and always was a scores to a fault also he has longevity over Mj that is all MJ was the real deal had he had longevity like LeBron it would be a question MJ was the only goat since lebron had played 20 seasons he’s racked up every single individual accolades/achievement except dpoy it that a knock on him at all he’s a great great player all time great runner up to MJ i shame in that he can have 10 rings to MJ 6 he’s still not my goat for Various reasons such as ring chasing complaints about not having enough help when he’s the one who picked his teammates and then turns on them he rather cheat to win weather then beat the best players in the league like dude you can’t have all the best players on your team what fun is that he don’t care he thing’s getting more rings then MJ he’s the goat smh heck he thinks he should be loved by the millions and millions or ppl on planet earth shame on him he’s made the league watered down almost unwatchable at times he flops do dirty tactics at times he’s even got someone called for a fouls or technical foul then winks at the camera and suddenly his team wins the game nah bro you gotta beat the best not cheat

Marrrcuss · Post #12 » by **Marrrcuss** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 7:56 pm

I am a bron stan who has no issue with someone feeling Mike is the goat.

I just think the finals record as proof is stupid af.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #13 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:01 pm

6-0 in nba finals, finals MVP in all of them.

Pelon chingon · Post #14 » by **Pelon chingon** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:01 pm

You had to have been there. Young people see Lebron and think to themselves "hes the best ever" but most people who watched Jordan know there is a whole different level MJ reached. Much to LBJ fan boys dismay it's also all on film.

rapstarter · Post #15 » by **rapstarter** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:02 pm

ceiling raiser wrote:Feels like LeBron has overtaken him in communities like this

When did this happen :lol:

Tor_Raps · Post #16 » by **Tor_Raps** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:06 pm

rapstarter wrote:
ceiling raiser wrote:Feels like LeBron has overtaken him in communities like this

When did this happen

Just amongst people who have yet to hit puberty lol

Marrrcuss · Post #17 » by **Marrrcuss** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:06 pm

rapstarter wrote:
ceiling raiser wrote:Feels like LeBron has overtaken him in communities like this

When did this happen

Not only has it not happened, they cant discuss it without saying stupid shyt like 'fan boys'. They are so emotional about this. Has to be the social justice support.

Castle Black · Post #18 » by **Castle Black** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:10 pm

6-6 in the Finals to lebron’s 4-6.
6 FMVP’s to Lebron’s 4.
5 MVP’s to Lebron’s 4.
10 Scoring Titles to Lebron’s 1.
30.1 PPG Career Scoring Avg to Lebron’s 27.2
1 DPOY to Lebron’s 0.
Higher Career PER than Lebron.
Better Career Defensive Rating than Lebron.
Higher Career Box Plus/Minus than Lebron.
Higher Career Win Shares/48 than Lebron.
1 NCAA National Championship to Lebron’s 0.
2 NCAA Player of the Year Awards to Lebron’s 0.

Lebron has longevity, but that’s about it. Jordan had the greater peak and accomplished more in less time.

He also didn’t lose a single Finals series or even let one go to a Game 7, whereas Lebron has not only lost 6, but lost 2 where his team was favored (would’ve been 3 if not for Ray Allen), including 2011 where he completely disappeared in the Finals. No disrespect to Dirk, but the Mavs had no business winning that series. If Lebron even just plays average, Miami wins comfortably. But he completely disappeared that Finals, particularly down the stretch of games. And this was in his prime, mind you.

ropjhk · Post #19 » by **ropjhk** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:15 pm

Marrrcuss wrote:I am a bron stan who has no issue with someone feeling Mike is the goat.

I just think the finals record as proof is stupid af.

Just stating Jordan's finals record is a very lazy way to present Jordan's GOAT credentials. There's so much more than just that.

Grahf · Post #20 » by **Grahf** » Tue Jul 4, 2023 8:15 pm

This isn't meant to sound like LeBron hate, he's undoubtedly one of the 3 or 4 best ever...

But in addition to the arguments other posters have made, Jordan has no stain on his record anywhere close to LeBron's choke show in the 2011 Finals.

Edit: Since we're talking data, and LeBron is probably Jordan's closest competition for GOAT in most people's minds: he put up 18-7-7 in 2011. Jordan never regressed like that on the biggest stage.

Six championships in his last six full seasons with the Bulls is just impossible to beat.