Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[CalamityX12]

Yea I'm not down losing our firsts for Herro

Stay away

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

[vincecarter4pres]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

That’s a 33 win team.

[Tha King]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

That’s a 33 win team.

that would be worse than the Jazz this season.

I don't think you're far off. To be significantly better than that you need Bridges replicating what he did after the trade, Claxton taking a step up offensively, Simmons being a good contributor, Cam Thomas providing offense, etc. A lot of 'ifs' but to be fair some are not all that unrealistic.

You don't even need Simmons to be a starter, just a consistent contributor off the bench to rebound and pass. Cam has shown he can score, would just need him to be a rotational bench scorer in his third season, etc. Some of that happens and you all of sudden have a very deep team which can get you enough wins in the RS. Playoffs would be a different story.

[Netaman]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

That’s a 33 win team.

dinwiddie would start over cam T so maybe it would be 35-40 but the ceiling isn't much higher than it was pre-KD.

the big issue with "running it back" is that the roster is so imbalanced it does everyone on it a disservice. the time to give cam t a shot was post-deadline once simmons went down, but i guess he didnt do enough to earn it. that's unlikely to change in 1 training camp.

DFS and Royce were 5 war starting 3&D wings on 50 win teams. keeping them as bench players on a 40 win team is only a recipe to piss them off and lose them for nothing.

oh and they just signed walker and dsj to minimum deals. those guys signed here to play for bigger deals. not get buried by all the guards on the current roster.

converting a bunch of spare parts salary into a 23 year old Herro (or another plus player) is a win even if it takes the crappy philly first 4 years from now. he's won 6th man of the year, he's shown up in playoff games, he's an elite shooter, the cap is going up. he's a good add with a much higher floor than poole/ayton/simons/collins/simmons. or just go in on dame. build up, not down.

[Papi_swav]

Not a big fan of Herro but if the cost is reasonable I'm totally down to get him. We have alot of length and good defenders, we can use a guy that can get buckets at the 2 on our starting lineup. Bridges slide over to the 3, which is his natural position and CamJ at the 4 with Claxton at the 5. And like you guys said he fits the youth and expiring timeline.

I hope we're able to keep O'neale or DFS and Dinwiddie. We need a point guard to run the plays and Din is the best on our roster, Herro is not that kind of player and would be nice to have Din and others set him up off screens etc.. And I would like to keep one of O'neale or DFS because they're tough defenders that can knock down the 3.

I like O'neale better because he can do more with the ball but most likely all of them will have to be included. Is their a way we can get Herro with keeping Din/O'neale? and without giving up too much picks ofcourse.

EDIT: I just seen that Herro will make 30 mill per year until 2027. Yea we're going to need some compensation for that. He's not that good to be taking on that kind of money and for that long. I thought under contract for only 2 more years but my mistake. We need cap space for 2025 and he gets in the way of that. And we're not sure he will even have value to trade by then

[Netaman]

Not a big fan of Herro but if the cost is reasonable I'm totally down to get him. We have alot of length and good defenders, we can use a guy that can get buckets at the 2 on our starting lineup. Bridges slide over to the 3, which is his natural position and CamJ at the 4 with Claxton at the 5. And like you guys said he fits the youth and expiring timeline.

I hope we're able to keep O'neale or DFS and Dinwiddie. We need a point guard to run the plays and Din is the best on our roster, Herro is not that kind of player and would be nice to have Din and others set him up off screens etc.. And I would like to keep one of O'neale or DFS because they're tough defenders that can knock down the 3.

I like O'neale better because he can do more with the ball but most likely all of them will have to be included. Is their a way we can get Herro with keeping Din/O'neale? and without giving up too much picks ofcourse.

i think herro would be the 2 guard and dinwiddie/simmons would be battling for staring point (nets likely hope simmons wins that because he is the perfect defensive fit next to herro, though dinwiddie having size lets herro guard down on pgs).

in terms of a quality shot maker under 25 years old, they could do a lot worse. especially if you add in the qualifiers of having done it in playoff games.

[Netaman]

presenting this without comment except last year i never would have imagined Brunson developing the way he did in a bigger role in NY, I think Herro on a team with a lot of defense around him and in need of a go to creator could see a similar jump, and what he is is already pretty good.

[brook]

Who says no?

DFS + Cam Thomas + O'Neale + Simmons + 3? (4?) picks e/o swaps for Siakam & Herro.

Dinwiddie / Smith Jr / Sumner
Bridges / Herro
CamJ / Walker / Whitehead
Siakam / Derrick Jones Jr (Toscano-Anderson or Winslow) / Clowney
Claxton / Bamba (Hernangomez) / Sharpe

Blazers gets Simmons, Jovic, picks and Porter (his contract expiring)
Heat gets Lillard and filler
Raptors gets 4 good players and picks
Nets gets Siakam, Herro and off-load Simmons

then a couple of free agent signings in the frontcourt and we're ready!

[kan_t]

Not a big fan of Herro but if the cost is reasonable I'm totally down to get him. We have alot of length and good defenders, we can use a guy that can get buckets at the 2 on our starting lineup. Bridges slide over to the 3, which is his natural position and CamJ at the 4 with Claxton at the 5. And like you guys said he fits the youth and expiring timeline.

I hope we're able to keep O'neale or DFS and Dinwiddie. We need a point guard to run the plays and Din is the best on our roster, Herro is not that kind of player and would be nice to have Din and others set him up off screens etc.. And I would like to keep one of O'neale or DFS because they're tough defenders that can knock down the 3.

I like O'neale better because he can do more with the ball but most likely all of them will have to be included. Is their a way we can get Herro with keeping Din/O'neale? and without giving up too much picks ofcourse.

EDIT: I just seen that Herro will make 30 mill per year until 2027. Yea we're going to need some compensation for that. He's not that good to be taking on that kind of money and for that long. I thought under contract for only 2 more years but my mistake. We need cap space for 2025 and he gets in the way of that. And we're not sure he will even have value to trade by then

The Warriors unload Poole by using a FRP. The Nets shall have no issue creating cap space if they want. If the Nets need to give up any FRP for him, that's a big no. But if it's just for SRP, they should make the deal.

[ecuhus1981]

Who says no?

DFS + Cam Thomas + O'Neale + Simmons + 3? (4?) picks e/o swaps for Siakam & Herro.

Dinwiddie / Smith Jr / Sumner
Bridges / Herro
CamJ / Walker / Whitehead
Siakam / Derrick Jones Jr (Toscano-Anderson or Winslow) / Clowney
Claxton / Bamba (Hernangomez) / Sharpe

Blazers gets Simmons, Jovic, picks and Porter (his contract expiring)
Heat gets Lillard and filler
Raptors gets 4 good players and picks
Nets gets Siakam, Herro and off-load Simmons

then a couple of free agent signings in the frontcourt and we're ready!

I'm not a big fan of this wave of Herro to Brooklyn proposals, but I like this one. Get off Simmons, get Pascal and Tyler, sure, I'll point up some serious assets.

[TheNetsFan]

Who says no?

DFS + Cam Thomas + O'Neale + Simmons + 3? (4?) picks e/o swaps for Siakam & Herro.

Dinwiddie / Smith Jr / Sumner
Bridges / Herro
CamJ / Walker / Whitehead
Siakam / Derrick Jones Jr (Toscano-Anderson or Winslow) / Clowney
Claxton / Bamba (Hernangomez) / Sharpe

Blazers gets Simmons, Jovic, picks and Porter (his contract expiring)
Heat gets Lillard and filler
Raptors gets 4 good players and picks
Nets gets Siakam, Herro and off-load Simmons

then a couple of free agent signings in the frontcourt and we're ready!

I'm not a big fan of this wave of Herro to Brooklyn proposals, but I like this one. Get off Simmons, get Pascal and Tyler, sure, I'll point up some serious assets.

Too rich for Brooklyn. I'm not trading that much for a disgruntled, delusional Siakam on an expiring deal.

[Netaman]

Who says no?

Blazers gets Simmons, Jovic, picks and Porter (his contract expiring)
Heat gets Lillard and filler
Raptors gets 4 good players and picks
Nets gets Siakam, Herro and off-load Simmons

raps, blazers, and probably siakam if he really wants to stay in toronto as rumored. i think the nets could have sent them that exact package at the deadline for siakam, except harris expiring instead of robinson. but they refused and insisted on claxton. don't think there's any reason they'd change their minds now if they didnt when top 10 picks were on the table last month.

i wouldn't be shocked if the blazers take a package like that but if that's all it takes it'd be done already probably.

[vincecarter4pres]

It really depends on what goes out for Herro tbh.

Simmons and the Philly pick? That’s my personal hard limit.

I think you also have to think about what and if you can acquire Dejounte Murray for, for example.

Similar if not better player. Both have different pros and cons. One locked up four years on a certainly overpaid but not terrible contract. The other on an expiring and a flight risk if you don’t give him a likely equivalent long term deal.

One 23 with some remaining upside.
One 26, about to be 27 in his dead prime.
One a very good defender and a bit better running an offense, but quite inefficient as a scorer.
The other a much better shooter, better off ball, but a mediocre at best defender.
There are more differences and similarities, but again, the point stands.

If the Nets get involved in this Lillard deal, it needs to be at an advantageous position. I’m one who likes but does not love Herro. He is a good add and fills a lot of needs, provides fit and is young with upside. But he is not a must add. Players like him come along often enough. Murray will either be available now until the deadline, or as a free agent next summer, when chances are you can dump Simmons at the cost of the Philly pick, at worst, to open cap for him. There will also be similar but slightly less valuable players available. Caris LeVert for example. Maybe he doesn’t become available specifically, but guys like him do all the time at cheap to very reasonable asset cost and he provides a substantial chunk of the production and fit that either Herro or Murray do. And that has to be the position the Nets and Marks have to take as well.

Right now they’re most likely posturing about wanting compensation to take on Herro, especially if Simmons is outgoing, but I don’t see them giving up any real value if they’re matching salary with 2 of 3 of Dinwiddie, DFS and O’Neale, and only light incentive with Simmons.

Hell, Simmons probably has no value irl, but I think he has neutral value for a number of teams. Fans and media like to parrot how he’d take 11 unprotected first round picks to dump for an expiring to shave one year off his cap hit, but again, probably nothing remotely severe to dump him, especially next summer.

They will tread lightly and let this play out. Marks is not trading for Dame unless he comes dirt cheap, maybe not at all. So he’s also not in a rush to help Miami for zero personal bonus for our franchise.

[Tha King]

If the Nets get involved in this Lillard deal, it needs to be at an advantageous position. I’m one who likes but does not love Herro. He is a good add and fills a lot of needs, provides fit and is young with upside. But he is not a must add. Players like him come along often enough.

All of what you said but especially this. You are effectively turning the Heat into the best team in the conference and would be taking back a player that while solid is not a difference maker who at the same type would somewhat limit flexibility to get a star level FA.

This is why I think Simmons is starting to come up. And it won't be because Brooklyn is attaching several first round picks to move him imo

[vincecarter4pres]

If the Nets get involved in this Lillard deal, it needs to be at an advantageous position. I’m one who likes but does not love Herro. He is a good add and fills a lot of needs, provides fit and is young with upside. But he is not a must add. Players like him come along often enough.

All of what you said but especially this. You are effectively turning the Heat into the best team in the conference and would be taking back a player that while solid is not a difference maker who at the same type would somewhat limit flexibility to get a star level FA.

This is why I think Simmons is starting to come up. And it won't be because Brooklyn is attaching several first round picks to move him imo

Starting to think this drags out and becomes a 4 or 5 team mega deal like we haven’t seen the likes of in a long time, or ever.

[Claud]

Herro contract next 4 years:
27m
29m
31m
33m .

Just a bad contract. Good player with allstar potential, but he needs to improve significantly to be worthy of that contract.

I'd rather stay flexible, see which Ben Simmons we get, see how the team looks come February, and go big game hunting at the deadline if it makes sense.

Simmons
Bridges
CJ
DFS
Clax

With bench: Dinwiddie, O'Neal + A Quality big(Bamba? another via trade?) is decent enough roster to be a play-in team IMO.

Point is, stay the course and wait for a superstar like Luka, Giannis, or someone of that level. Herro is just not the answer.

[vincecarter4pres]

Herro contract next 4 years:
27m
29m
31m
33m .

Just a bad contract. Good player with allstar potential, but he needs to improve significantly to be worthy of that contract.

Gun to my head and I have to choose from two options, bad contract or good contract, I’m saying he’s a bad contract.

But it’s really not that bad, especially with a rising cap.

The reality is, no matter what chatter is out there, he’s a legitimate 20/5/4 guy on a real multi-year contender, 23 years old with room to grow, good all around game on the offensive side, ace shooter, paid like a 3rd/top 4th level starter, and at worst he’s a 4th/top 5th level starter.

In a vacuum he costs a lot, but with context it’s not awful. Unless you’re getting a guy on rookie scale, you’re paying $20-30 million for most any guard or wing with his skills and production, especially at his age.

I'd rather stay flexible, see which Ben Simmons we get, see how the team looks come February, and go big game hunting at the deadline if it makes sense.

I mean assuming we see Lillard dealt to Portland, we’ll see once again that supposed, “bad contracts”, will not stop a star trade, they will only hold it up for a bit.

Herro comes here and even just stays even as the starting 2 or the 6xth man and it’s two summers down the road and we need to clear him, some team will bite to take him on for cap space and maybe light incentive, or the team trading their star will either accept him or find a 3rd willing suitor.

Simmons
Bridges
CJ
DFS
Clax

With bench: Dinwiddie, O'Neal + A Quality big(Bamba? another via trade?) is decent enough roster to be a play-in team IMO.

That roster is a lot more likely to be a 30 win 7th overall pick train wreck then a 40 win play-in, imho.

And at that point you have to question why we didn’t trade Bridges for the 3rd and future picks to begin with? The pick going to Houston is sunk asset cost.

But being as though we did keep Bridges, if they’re this confident in him going forward, you have to surround him with legitimate starting caliber, young, athletic players, as long as it doesn’t destroy the cap and opportunity availability for the future.

Point is, stay the course and wait for a superstar like Luka, Giannis, or someone of that level. Herro is just not the answer.

I don’t think you can just do that. You have to show the idea of a winning culture if you don’t have the next Ja Morant or Paul George on the roster going into their 3rd season breakout to pair them with and the cap to add an additional stud role player.

[therealbig3]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

[vincecarter4pres]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

Agreed. Simmons is a lost cause. Even if he comes out the gate looking like his old self putting up 16/8/8 with world class defense, I’m selling at the first chance at the deadline, I don’t trust him as far as one can throw him.

And chances are, he is not coming out of the gate looking like that.

Hell even if he’s physically good and mentally there for the most part, he cannot shoot, will not shoot and is even a pour free throw shooter and there’s tons on tape on him now. Between knowing how to defend him and having to limit his minutes for effectiveness and health management, he’s probably like 12/7/6 if he’s having a great season.

Bottom line is, he’s almost certainly not a long term keeper, he won’t be part of a contender in this city, and you’re hoping he doesn’t get hurt again even if he plays well.

You’re basically trying to build his value up and get some production out of him until you can trade him as salary filler, or next year as a salary dump.

If you can get a young, productive, modern style athletic player with upside for him and little added value, what are you waiting for?