Miami Heat Offseason Thread 7.0: 3ammy vs Cronin, Winner Takes Dame!!

[Bourne85]

The only fair trade here is if we include Bam. Anything less than that Portland has no reason to accept our mediocre package. And imo that trade makes us worse, not better.

[miamiballer]

Why no trade yet; why is Cronin being a greedy brat

[Spacely]

It literally just happened with Dipo.

Lowrys expiring is 30 million my dude and is that a first round pick?

It may require one, yeah. Especially since so few teams could absorb that contract without sending any players back.

Without sending any players back is adding an asterisk to it

We could take on longer contracts and you get an expiring it’s that simple. Send the first round draft pick.

[MorbidHEAT]

I'm happy because we will win all way. If we get Lillard we will be the best team in the league. If we don't get him; even if the Butler is washed a few years later, we will have a great core with Herro-Jaquez-Jovic-Bam.

You’re wrong. All national sports analyst have made it clear that replacing Gabe Vincent with Dame Lillard will not make much of a difference and would leave us still worse than Boston and The Bucks, who we literally just beat.

[al bondiga]

Lillard Would be a good addition to this team But it would take a jb or a bam

99% sure nobody in portland is that dumb To give him up! he is the only One they have!!

A miracle can make happen or Lillard screw the wrong person or Maybe he gets injured like dipo...

[Spacely]

“The Rockets will receive Cleveland's Dante Exum and the Nets' Rodions Kurucs in addition to three first-round picks from the Nets (2022, 2024 and 2026) and a 2022 first-round pick from Cleveland (via Milwaukee).”

Dante Exum and Rodion Kurucs and 4 FRPs for JAMES PHUCKING HARDEN. But our trade is bad right??? LMFAOOOOO

[marson]

I'm fine either way.

If we get Dame, we will finally have that scoring punch needed but will lose some depth.

If we don't get Dame, we will have exciting young pieces on Jaquez and Jovic to look forward.

[gom]

The only fair trade here is if we include Bam. Anything less than that Portland has no reason to accept our mediocre package. And imo that trade makes us worse, not better.

You are making a serious mistake, because you aren't taking into account how awful Lillard's contract will be in two seasons. I expect the deal to be a lot less costly than many here, and whether we even win the deal won't be apparent until the final accounting. Lillard coming to Miami is a plus (now), but it's no guarantee of anything, and you know that. We are a good team already without him.

[Tony15]

The only fair trade here is if we include Bam. Anything less than that Portland has no reason to accept our mediocre package. And imo that trade makes us worse, not better.

You are making a serious mistake, because you aren't taking into account how awful Lillard's contract will be in two seasons. I expect the deal to be a lot less costly than many here, and whether we even win the deal won't be apparent until the final accounting. Lillard coming to Miami is a plus (now), but it's no guarantee of anything, and you know that. We are a good team already without him.

Exactly, fact is we're the most aggressive pursuer & Dame named "us". Portland doesn't have much of a choice now.

[Lilseb93]

How many teams are actually SERIOUS about trading for a 33 year old Dame on a max contract? Sure teams could be interested but who is actively trying to pull it off? How many teams are willing to blow up their windows and cap space for him? I feel like that's not asked enough. It's always about Miami not offering enough. Ok, who else is offering anything seriously?

[IceColdCubano]

Herro worth Atleast 1 or 2 FRPs
Lowry worth Atleast 1 FRP
Caleb worth Atleast 1or 2 FRPs
Plus two MIA FRPs = Atleast* 5-7 FRPs

Dude is delusional

Lowry will need a pick attached to trade him now. Caleb might garner 1 FRP, but most likely a couple of seconds. In this bizarro world, the person I feel needs to have the most trade value (Herro) seems to be getting crapped on the most in these offers

Herro ain’t bad and if we did have to run this squad back it would be fun to watch. To me Jovic is untouchable I now know why Riley said in his intro press event that his jersey would be in the rafters one day. That’s a damn diamond in the rough we found, he has the tools and carries himself like a damn star.

It’s a good time to be a Heat fan when our worst case scenario is an overall young core in immediate conference contention. That being said since Riley got here it’s been a good time to be a Heat fan most of the time.

So I find Spacely, original comment very interesting. I venture to say this is a hard thing to do assigning weight to our assets without assigning weight to what assets are from the start to get an idea of what your getting or giving.

Lets say we assign a point system. So based off 1 Point being 100% value at peak so a Lottery Pick.
That means that Pick 1-14 will be given a weighted value of a full 100% or value of 1.
- If the pick is unprotected we assign that full value, because then an FRP from a really bad team that is unprotected can yield the opportunity to pic from the Lottery.
- So 1 FRP = 1 (from a bad team, if unprotected). Opportunity to pick 1-14 in lottery.
- Therefore, 1 FRP = .90 (from a bad team, if its only top 3 protected) Opportunity to pick 4-14 in lottery.
- Therefore, 1 FRP = .75 (from a middling team, sitting around close to playin, but not bottom 10) Opportunity to pick 14-20.
- Therefore, 1 FRP = .50 (from a contender, team constantly in the playoffs, never bad) Opportunity to pick 18-30.

Now we assign value to Second round Picks, I would say they are at a minimum because they can range anywhere from 31-60 1/4 of the value of a FRP at its lowest value which .50 thus x 1/4 = .125 in value.

Ok now we got that out of the way, we also have to keep in mind that compensation is also not static. What I mean is the return in value for a player specifically. This is because to one team a certain players, position, style of play of that player, strengths, measurables, etc may be of more value for one organization to the next. Which is why multi team trades are difficult because finding the team who a certain player is more valuable too isn't so easy.
- As an example lets use Caleb Martin: what are his strengths to a team:
- Contract Value (The good) Cheap, production scales higher than cost. (The Bad) two year, with player option could leave quickly.
- Production (The good) Swiss army knife, can do a little bit of everything, great 3&D wing (The bad) Does nothing extraordinary.
- Team overall value (The good) great to plug into a championship contender needing depth (The bad) Does nothing for re-building team.

I am breaking this down, so we understand that to a certain type of team, limited Caleb can net you a 1 FRP, from a contender whos looking for that glue guy with championship experience. To a rebuilding team, he has no value other than his production outweighs his contract cost, his remaining short term deal also limits return because he cannot be held for long term (he could opt out of his second year) and if his production increases now your looking at re-signing him at greater cost. For a championship team who is already running in the margins that could be a concern.

Lowry on the other hand, is a very large expiring, to a team whos looking for a large number to clear from their books he could garner 1 FRP, or its a team who really doesn't but is just doing it to help Miami offload then the opposite is true your giving up an FRP to get him absorb elsewhere. The return is probably more in line with 2 Second rounders or more than a single FRP to be honest.

Now lets get into Herro, as explained every team will have a value assigned depending on the need, its not static, Herro could be worth say 2 FRP's to a team like Brooklyn but 1 FRP to San Antonio, based on contract size, and fit or need. The 30M dollar hit to a cap has to be taken into account, were essentially saying to the NBA, hay listen we enjoyed Tyler Herro when he was on a rookie contract vs production now we gave him an extension that is very heavy so now were finding a home, so that comes off a little hard to swallow for other teams, specially for a player who is 23 years old. The very act of what Miami is doing, is actually devaluating him. Say Herro had played his first year of his contract and plays close to par to it and plays a full playoffs without getting hurt again, you have an easier time moving the player. He showed he can at a minimum meet the value that was placed on him. Also as salaries rise, his contract will look better and better, but its still to early in his deal for that to be said just yet, outside of a couple bad signing this offseason that look to overtake the production vs cost narrative we just finished seeing a couple days ago.

[Tony15]

How many teams are actually SERIOUS about trading for a 33 year old Dame on a max contract? Sure teams could be interested but who is actively trying to pull it off? How many teams are willing to blow up their windows and cap space for him? I feel like that's not asked enough. It's always about Miami not offering enough. Ok, who else is offering anything seriously?

Philly isn't willing to part with Maxey, someone clearly inferior to Dame as a basketball player....think about that.

[Bourne85]

The only fair trade here is if we include Bam. Anything less than that Portland has no reason to accept our mediocre package. And imo that trade makes us worse, not better.

You are making a serious mistake, because you aren't taking into account how awful Lillard's contract will be in two seasons. I expect the deal to be a lot less costly than many here, and whether we even win the deal won't be apparent until the final accounting. Lillard coming to Miami is a plus (now), but it's no guarantee of anything, and you know that. We are a good team already without him.

We aren’t such a good team no. We were an 8th seed that barely scraped by. Everyone including Jimmy played better and in some cases other worldly better like Caleb vs Boston to get us to make that miracle run. If we go into this season with this current team we will once again be fighting 5th-8th seed and another underdog hope for the best scenario. I’m not fooled by that miracle run, and neither should anyone else here. If we don’t get Dame, this is not going to be a pretty season. At the very least we should get Harden, I don’t want or like him, but as currently constructed, we are not elite.

[Flash4thewin]

Dame: I don’t want to play anywhere else but Miami, if anyone else sends an offer and tries to trade for me we will be at an impasse and I will refuse to play and give back money. I have no desire to play for teams like OKC Boston and Utah who have racist fans and the Sixers rumors are funny like y’all think I’m going to leave Portland to go play with a fluke MVP and career choke artist who’s never been passed the 2nd round over Bam. Y’all got me fuxked up I’m
Playing with my Patna Bam and Jimmy in Miami and ONLY MIAMI!! No one else try to trade for me, I WILL NOT PLAY ANYWHERE BUT MIAMI!!

Heat fans reaction: OMFG WE LOST HIM HES GOING TO GO TO CHARLOTTE AND PLAY FOR STEPH CURRYS HOMETOWN TEAM TO SHOW HES THE BEST PG IN THAT AREA THEY HAVE MORE PICKS THAN US AND LAMELO IS WAY BETTER THAN HERRO WERE SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!

It's one thing to say that now in the off-season. It's a completely different thing to say that when one actually has to show up in the regular season. Is it in his character to pull a Ben Simmons? Remember Ben was also not traded to his preferred destination after sitting out a whole season and he just signed a max 5 year extension. If it gets to that point, do you think Dame will pull a Simmons and destroy what's left of his reputation or do you think he will fold and add other teams to the list. Thats assuming it even gets to that point. Hopefully this is resolved in our favor but the longer this drags out the less likely that becomes.

[MorbidHEAT]

How many teams are actually SERIOUS about trading for a 33 year old Dame on a max contract? Sure teams could be interested but who is actively trying to pull it off? How many teams are willing to blow up their windows and cap space for him? I feel like that's not asked enough. It's always about Miami not offering enough. Ok, who else is offering anything seriously?

Dame’s contract, age, and unwillingness to commit to another team is essentially a no trade clause. As long as he stays resolute in his desire to come to Miami, then it should be a matter of when and how, not if.

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[Spacely]

Y’all keep complaining about the value of our trade but ignoring that James harden trade to the nets which was pure trash.

[HEAT_ME_UP]

Mark your calendars, the trade is happening on July 6th. Confirmed by my sources.

[ShulaDon92]

The only fair trade here is if we include Bam. Anything less than that Portland has no reason to accept our mediocre package. And imo that trade makes us worse, not better.

You are making a serious mistake, because you aren't taking into account how awful Lillard's contract will be in two seasons. I expect the deal to be a lot less costly than many here, and whether we even win the deal won't be apparent until the final accounting. Lillard coming to Miami is a plus (now), but it's no guarantee of anything, and you know that. We are a good team already without him.

We aren’t such a good team no. We were an 8th seed that barely scraped by. Everyone including Jimmy played better and in some cases other worldly better like Caleb vs Boston to get us to make that miracle run. If we go into this season with this current team we will once again be fighting 5th-8th seed and another underdog hope for the best scenario. I’m not fooled by that miracle run, and neither should anyone else here. If we don’t get Dame, this is not going to be a pretty season. At the very least we should get Harden, I don’t want or like him, but as currently constructed, we are not elite.

Another negative nancy. We have internal growth and exciting young players improving.

Weak sauces here

-SHULA

[Lilseb93]

How many teams are actually SERIOUS about trading for a 33 year old Dame on a max contract? Sure teams could be interested but who is actively trying to pull it off? How many teams are willing to blow up their windows and cap space for him? I feel like that's not asked enough. It's always about Miami not offering enough. Ok, who else is offering anything seriously?

Dame’s contract, age, and unwillingness to commit to another team is essentially a no trade clause. As long as he stays resolute in his desire to come to Miami, then it should be a matter of when and how, not if.

Exactly. That's my point. We seem to be the only team that is extremely serious in talks for Dame. People will say "Portland doesn't have to trade him." Sure, then Miami can just continue to develop its young players have a solid core for the future, and make another run at somebody else whenever. Miami will always retool and find ways to be relevant: 7 EC titles, 3 NBA titles, and consistent playoff appearances. Portland hasn't proven to be able to do that since the early 90s. They have good young players but they can be stuck with a miserable Dame if they want. It's business. You don't go into a deal looking desperate and willing to offer everything.

It's really coming down to Portland just saying no and Miami. The media can mention every other team in the NBA having better assets but it's really just coming down to that unless somebody else is now serious about getting Dame, which doesn't seem to be the case.