Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[CalamityX12]

What's worse? Herro contract or Ben?

[Tha King]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

we're not looking at him as a player anymore, it's Simmons the contract compared to Herro.

Simmons only has two more years left while you're committing long term to Herro on a contract that could be considered negative and could also limit your ability to acquire an elite player.

[CalamityX12]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

we're not looking at him as a player anymore, it's Simmons the contract compared to Herro.

Simmons only has two more years left while you're committing long term to Herro on a contract that could be considered negative and could also limit your ability to acquire an elite player.

Agreed!

F this Herro talk, not worth our assets or time imo

[therealbig3]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

we're not looking at him as a player anymore, it's Simmons the contract compared to Herro.

Simmons only has two more years left while you're committing long term to Herro on a contract that could be considered negative and could also limit your ability to acquire an elite player.

Herro's contract isn't that bad though, it's like 5 million dollars more than what he should be getting. He's an actually good player who's only 23 years old, which means he could also get better. If he actually stays healthy and plays well, he's an asset, not a liability, and he could be one of the more desirable pieces in a trade for an available superstar. In the meantime, he could also help contribute to the actual on-court team we have and help us make the playoffs as a lower seed (which is in our best interest right now).

For example, say things continue to be tense between Brown and the Celtics. The Celtics still have Tatum in his prime, they just added Porzingis...they're gonna want to keep going for the title even without Brown. Which means they'll be looking for a win now piece in return if they are forced to trade him, someone who could somewhat offset the loss of Brown. Kind of like what we tried to do with the Harden trade. Someone like Tyler Herro. The phone would be hung up before you could even say "Ben Simmons".

IDK, you're trading 2 years of a massive waste of a contract for 4 years of a slightly overpaid contract, in a younger, better player. I just don't see a big difference here in terms of what other teams would want, especially if these are teams that want to put a quality product on the court. I also think that by the time Giannis and Luka are free agents, Herro is an easily movable contract at that point, so freeing up cap space shouldn't be an issue, and we can at least get 2 years of a better player out of it.

[vincecarter4pres]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

[Decipher]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

He’s not a good defender at all

Not even Sixers fans make that claim

[Netaman]

Maxey is a very good scorer but i dont think he's any sort of superstar. he's pre-extension but once he gets one i think he's right in the same category as herro - who i think many are underrating. last summer pre-extension i would have been fine with a Bam + Herro + picks package for KD, but that was somewhat without realizing the extension he was about to get. That said, it wouldn't be so demonstrably different than how things ended up. Bam and Bridges are similar value (Bam is probably a little better), Cam J and Herro are similar value (Herro is the better scorer, Cam the better 2-way player).

I will be pumped if we add Herro to this group. I think he's an asset with upside and a very low floor. At minimum he's a lights out shooter/6th man. The most surprising thing about Herro is that he's been as good as he is without sub-40% 3 pt%, but I think that's actually a hidden upside. Other than the wrist injury there's no reason he shouldn't shoot better.

[vincecarter4pres]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

He’s not a good defender at all

Not even Sixers fans make that claim

True, I think I was combining my recollection of Maxey and Thybulle lol.

[Netaman]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

He’s not a good defender at all

Not even Sixers fans make that claim

True, I think I was combining my recollection of Maxey and Thybulle lol.

i thought maxey was a glorified cam t before last year and i was way off. very good offensive player but also a big negative on D.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

That’s a 33 win team.

We were basically .500 without Simmons last year. And Cam, Bridges should be better.

[Hello Brooklyn]

What's worse? Herro contract or Ben?

Ben will be an expiring next year. You guys act like it will be impossible to get rid of him.

Herro's contract goes until freaking 2027.

If Simmons doesn't work out there are lot of exit options. Herro will be a tougher sell. And may require more assets to dump him down the line.

Herro is almost always injured anyway. I don't think there is any shot hes worth that money.

Simmons can always be dumped if need be for a first rounder.

[vincecarter4pres]

I have no interest in giving up any asset for Herro.

I still want to give Cam Thomas a chance. And want to see if Simmons can bounce back from injury.

Simmons
Cam T
Bridges
Cam J
Claxton

Looks pretty good to me with a high ceiling.

That’s a 33 win team.

We were basically .500 without Simmons last year. And Cam, Bridges should be better.

We went 12-14 after the trade. A bit of lightning in a bottle as well.

Expecting Bridges to be better, or even as good is a reach imho. He averaged 26/5/3 on great efficiency. Even matching that for a whole season is quite the task.

That’s 37 wins, but idk, looking around the league and at the East, I see like 6 teams we’re definitely better then on paper in the entire NBA. Like another 3 that can go either way, then you have an inevitable two or three that trade away their stars or have injuries.

But standing pat right now, I’d say we’re between 32-42 wins depending on health and how well we gel.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

I like Maxey. But hes not going to be worth the price Philly puts on him.

We need to save our assets for the next star who wants out. All these second tier guys are just not worth it.

[vincecarter4pres]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

I like Maxey. But hes not going to be worth the price Philly puts on him.

We need to save our assets for the next star who wants out. All these second tier guys are just not worth it.

I mainly agree. He could be a year in, year out 23/3/5 guy with ridiculous shooting and finishing though.

[Hello Brooklyn]

That’s a 33 win team.

We were basically .500 without Simmons last year. And Cam, Bridges should be better.

We went 12-14 after the trade. A bit of lightning in a bottle as well.

Expecting Bridges to be better, or even as good is a reach imho. He averaged 26/5/3 on great efficiency. Even matching that for a whole season is quite the task.

That’s 37 wins, but idk, looking around the league and at the East, I see like 6 teams we’re definitely better then on paper in the entire NBA. Like another 3 that can go either way, then you have an inevitable two or three that trade away their stars or have injuries.

But standing pat right now, I’d say we’re between 32-42 wins depending on health and how well we gel.

I don't see it that way. I think that team was thrown together at the last possible second with no direction.

Bridges/Johnson were even complaining for a while about how they were not used to the defense. And the schedule got pretty hard at certain points.

We showed up in important must win games v Miami which was basically for the 6th seed.

Bridges is a late bloomer and still adjusting to being a 1st option. I do expect him to be better.

Same with Claxton, Cam J, Cam T and hopefully Simmons can recapture some of his magic.

I think this team could win around 45-47 games if we stay healthy.

The East isn't even that good anymore. After Milwaukee/Boston there are not really any great regular season teams.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Another question is, should we pull for Philly as the surprise team? Give up some picks to Portland and land Maxey?

I’m not sold on Maxey as a full time point guard, at least and especially with Bridges being a so-so playmaker, but man is that kid a flame thrower and he’s a good defender.

I like Maxey. But hes not going to be worth the price Philly puts on him.

We need to save our assets for the next star who wants out. All these second tier guys are just not worth it.

I mainly agree. He could be a year in, year out 23/3/5 guy with ridiculous shooting and finishing though.

Good 2nd or 3rd guy for a team with a Superstar. Not us.

[vincecarter4pres]

We were basically .500 without Simmons last year. And Cam, Bridges should be better.

We went 12-14 after the trade. A bit of lightning in a bottle as well.

Expecting Bridges to be better, or even as good is a reach imho. He averaged 26/5/3 on great efficiency. Even matching that for a whole season is quite the task.

That’s 37 wins, but idk, looking around the league and at the East, I see like 6 teams we’re definitely better then on paper in the entire NBA. Like another 3 that can go either way, then you have an inevitable two or three that trade away their stars or have injuries.

But standing pat right now, I’d say we’re between 32-42 wins depending on health and how well we gel.

I don't see it that way. I think that team was thrown together at the last possible second with no direction.

Bridges/Johnson were even complaining for a while about how they were not used to the defense. And the schedule got pretty hard at certain points.

We showed up in important must win games v Miami which was basically for the 6th seed.

Bridges is a late bloomer and still adjusting to being a 1st option. I do expect him to be better.

Same with Claxton, Cam J, Cam T and hopefully Simmons can recapture some of his magic.

I think this team could win around 45-47 games if we stay healthy.

The East isn't even that good anymore. After Milwaukee/Boston there are not really any great regular season teams.

See I think after the bottom 4 teams in the East it’s a bloodbath.

Agreed that there aren’t many great teams, but a lot of teams that can easily win high 40’s-50.

[CalamityX12]

What's worse? Herro contract or Ben?

Ben will be an expiring next year. You guys act like it will be impossible to get rid of him.

Herro's contract goes until freaking 2027.

If Simmons doesn't work out there are lot of exit options. Herro will be a tougher sell. And may require more assets to dump him down the line.

Herro is almost always injured anyway. I don't think there is any shot hes worth that money.

Simmons can always be dumped if need be for a first rounder.

Thought so, Ben is gonna expire

[ChuckS]

LOL, to me it's more likely Herro lives up to his contract than Ben Simmons being a rotation-level player again. If acquiring Herro has the dual benefit of getting out from Simmons's contract, it's a no brainer imo. Worth giving up a 1st rounder imo.

we're not looking at him as a player anymore, it's Simmons the contract compared to Herro.

Simmons only has two more years left while you're committing long term to Herro on a contract that could be considered negative and could also limit your ability to acquire an elite player.

Herro's contract isn't that bad though, it's like 5 million dollars more than what he should be getting. He's an actually good player who's only 23 years old, which means he could also get better. If he actually stays healthy and plays well, he's an asset, not a liability, and he could be one of the more desirable pieces in a trade for an available superstar. In the meantime, he could also help contribute to the actual on-court team we have and help us make the playoffs as a lower seed (which is in our best interest right now).

For example, say things continue to be tense between Brown and the Celtics. The Celtics still have Tatum in his prime, they just added Porzingis...they're gonna want to keep going for the title even without Brown. Which means they'll be looking for a win now piece in return if they are forced to trade him, someone who could somewhat offset the loss of Brown. Kind of like what we tried to do with the Harden trade. Someone like Tyler Herro. The phone would be hung up before you could even say "Ben Simmons".

IDK, you're trading 2 years of a massive waste of a contract for 4 years of a slightly overpaid contract, in a younger, better player. I just don't see a big difference here in terms of what other teams would want, especially if these are teams that want to put a quality product on the court. I also think that by the time Giannis and Luka are free agents, Herro is an easily movable contract at that point, so freeing up cap space shouldn't be an issue, and we can at least get 2 years of a better player out of it.

This has been an awesome discussion, the pros and cons of which have been logical and informed. Your post has addressed the potential failings of signing Herro exactly consistent with my beliefs. For all the reasons you detailed, I believe it is in our best interest to get him, or someone like him, if we can.

We have done an amazing job in drastically reducing the impact of the loss of Durant. But, even collectively, Bridges and CJ cannot replace what an all time great like KD gave us. IMO that is primarily unstoppable scoring. Herro, of course, cannot replace that himself. But added to the other two, he could have an impact comparable to what Brunson has provided the Knicks. We should not cease to attempt to improve incrementally, particularly when failing, without our own picks for four years, makes no sense to me.

The biggest question, as I see it, is losing Simmons to accomplish such an acquisition. I personally believe Ben will come back to some degree and also be a positive. I doubt, however, that he will ever be a dangerous scorer. But his size can be replaced, and his defense already has been, IMO. So I believe, right now, except for size, scoring should be our biggest concern.

Of course Herro, or anyone else, could ultimately disappoint. But I find it just as easy to believe that he might or will not. As far as being over-payed, I suspect under the CBA that will be a continuing problem teams will have to live with. I'll probably be crucified for thinking this, but I believe the NBA and fans are better served by owners like that of the Suns, who has said screw the new contract and have, at least me, somewhat excited.

[Stone]

Bol Bol anyone?