Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[Decipher]

Should look at Paul Reed as Sixers have just signed Mo Bamba

[Netaman]

Hey guys, making my occasional appearance. Hope everyone is well. I read through the last few pages and I have a cap question I haven't been able to resolve on my own. Does anyone know if the ship has sailed on rolling Harris and/or Patty into other deals or do we have a specific deadline to do that? I was under the impression we could rework those trades into a multi team deal until 7/10. Can anyone say with certainty if that's correct or not? If so...that's 27mil in salary matching we can use in a deal without throwing Ben into a deal at his his lowest value point. And I would think, that's way more attractive to Portland than taking back Herro OR Ben. I mean we know they don't want Herro...I imagine Ben isn't exciting for them either. So what if...we can roll Hou and Det into this deal with us and Portland, find a 5th team, they give up a 1st round pick for Oneale. That's your Dame salary match, one 37mil TE no players going to Portland. Send the pick for Oneale, the rights to Whitehead, 2 more firsts to Portland. Maybe they want Clowney, or one more pick or Cam T. Now we get Dame for ourselves. We keep Ben. We keep Spencer. We keep DFS. We keep our depth...and MOST of our future picks for other moves, obviously the Suns picks are the ones we most want to keep. If we can keep from adding that extra pick, Cam or Clowney...send them the Suns TE instead, and eat Nurkic too. One of the other. That let's them get off both Dame and Nurkic and they took back ZERO salary. I imagine that has value to them. Problem of course is convincing Dame. But anyone who weighs in, 2 questions....

1- is is still doable to use Harris and/or Patty like this sending one giant 37mil TE to Portland?

2- would you do it for Dame if you are keeping our entire roster beyond Oneale and a max of 3 future firsts plus Whitehead?

yes and yes. here's an article from a good cap guy who went through this scenario. I think the deadline to do it is sooner than july 10th though because once deals become official then all bets are off.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/damian-lillard-to-miami-tyler-herro-to-brooklyn-heres-how-the-trade-could-look-like/

[JoseRizal]

Bamba has been signed. Is Sean sleeping again? Or is he satisfied starting the season without another big?

[Rastas]

Going forward I see Maxey loosing his appeal after Klutch demands a max extension next year.
Are you guys ok with a Maxey at over 40m per, I would rather bide my time and wait for a bigger fish at those dollars.

[Shark]

Bamba has been signed. Is Sean sleeping again? Or is he satisfied starting the season without another big?

At this point I think its just who Marks is. Bamba would have been great.

[CalamityX12]

Marks will never learn

Bigs are just a bs thing around here

[dean456]

I don't know why we are only discussing Simmons OR Herro. There are many other ways to construct a deal where we don't have to give up Simmons. (and additional assets to get rid of him)

Trading Simmons at the absolute lowest point of his value is not a good move. There is a good chance that he can bounce back to semblance of his old self, making Simmons the asset a less negative one. Even if he never regains his form or reinjures himself, his value will also increase because he becomes an expiring. If we attach assets to rid Simmons, what are we gaining? The player coming back that can take us from play in to 6th seed? We are certainly not going to be under the cap this summer.

I like Herro, depending on what we have to give up, I am not against trading for him. My evaluation is the equivalent of 2 protected FRPs. So if we are giving up a combination of Din/DFS/Royce, we shouldn't need to add any more picks. For similar salary, he has to be a better deal than Cam J. I believe he's the better player right now (arguable but they are at least in the same tier) and he's 4 years younger. This means that he makes incremental improvements his contract will look like major bargain.

There's been discussions in Heat circles that the Dame trade may include the not yet official deals with Strus to CLE and Oladipo to OKC and Joe Harris to DET.

Basically you add that deal to this one and BKN would only need to send out another 7.1mil in salary to match Herro's. So they could send out O'Neale's expiring and whatever fair pick compensation they agree to and Herro goes to BKN. Doing this would also fit Tyler's additional salary neatly under the tax line.

[dean456]

Hey guys, making my occasional appearance. Hope everyone is well. I read through the last few pages and I have a cap question I haven't been able to resolve on my own. Does anyone know if the ship has sailed on rolling Harris and/or Patty into other deals or do we have a specific deadline to do that? I was under the impression we could rework those trades into a multi team deal until 7/10. Can anyone say with certainty if that's correct or not? If so...that's 27mil in salary matching we can use in a deal without throwing Ben into a deal at his his lowest value point. And I would think, that's way more attractive to Portland than taking back Herro OR Ben. I mean we know they don't want Herro...I imagine Ben isn't exciting for them either. So what if...we can roll Hou and Det into this deal with us and Portland, find a 5th team, they give up a 1st round pick for Oneale. That's your Dame salary match, one 37mil TE no players going to Portland. Send the pick for Oneale, the rights to Whitehead, 2 more firsts to Portland. Maybe they want Clowney, or one more pick or Cam T. Now we get Dame for ourselves. We keep Ben. We keep Spencer. We keep DFS. We keep our depth...and MOST of our future picks for other moves, obviously the Suns picks are the ones we most want to keep. If we can keep from adding that extra pick, Cam or Clowney...send them the Suns TE instead, and eat Nurkic too. One of the other. That let's them get off both Dame and Nurkic and they took back ZERO salary. I imagine that has value to them. Problem of course is convincing Dame. But anyone who weighs in, 2 questions....

1- is is still doable to use Harris and/or Patty like this sending one giant 37mil TE to Portland?

2- would you do it for Dame if you are keeping our entire roster beyond Oneale and a max of 3 future firsts plus Whitehead?

This is partially correct I think, the moratorium period isn't a deadline for deals to be completed it is the time when deals can be made official, so they could continue to negotiate for some time after that, I believe they would just have to be finalized sometime before the season starts.

I believe the Dame trade will end up being up to a 6 team deal including CLE, OKC and DET. I actually forgot about Mills' deal to OKC but I don't think that is necessary to be used in this deal more so useful to BKN as they could trade for Herro by only moving O'Neale and keep their salaries under the tax line.

Miami will be rolling their deal with OKC in with the Oladipo's 9.5mil and possibly Max Strus' 7.3mil cap savers, giving POR more savings on top of the Harris one from BKN/DET deal. Miami will likely absorb Nurkic's deal with our side of it and BKN will absorb Tyler's with Harris' money and O'Neale.

Then it would just be a matter of fair draft compensation for all involved and who's giving what, which is what's likely causing long wait.

[Tha King]

Hey guys, making my occasional appearance. Hope everyone is well. I read through the last few pages and I have a cap question I haven't been able to resolve on my own. Does anyone know if the ship has sailed on rolling Harris and/or Patty into other deals or do we have a specific deadline to do that? I was under the impression we could rework those trades into a multi team deal until 7/10. Can anyone say with certainty if that's correct or not? If so...that's 27mil in salary matching we can use in a deal without throwing Ben into a deal at his his lowest value point. And I would think, that's way more attractive to Portland than taking back Herro OR Ben. I mean we know they don't want Herro...I imagine Ben isn't exciting for them either. So what if...we can roll Hou and Det into this deal with us and Portland, find a 5th team, they give up a 1st round pick for Oneale. That's your Dame salary match, one 37mil TE no players going to Portland. Send the pick for Oneale, the rights to Whitehead, 2 more firsts to Portland. Maybe they want Clowney, or one more pick or Cam T. Now we get Dame for ourselves. We keep Ben. We keep Spencer. We keep DFS. We keep our depth...and MOST of our future picks for other moves, obviously the Suns picks are the ones we most want to keep. If we can keep from adding that extra pick, Cam or Clowney...send them the Suns TE instead, and eat Nurkic too. One of the other. That let's them get off both Dame and Nurkic and they took back ZERO salary. I imagine that has value to them. Problem of course is convincing Dame. But anyone who weighs in, 2 questions....

1- is is still doable to use Harris and/or Patty like this sending one giant 37mil TE to Portland?

2- would you do it for Dame if you are keeping our entire roster beyond Oneale and a max of 3 future firsts plus Whitehead?

This is partially correct I think, the moratorium period isn't a deadline for deals to be completed it is the time when deals can be made official, so they could continue to negotiate for some time after that, I believe they would just have to be finalized sometime before the season starts.

I believe the Dame trade will end up being up to a 6 team deal including CLE, OKC and DET. I actually forgot about Mills' deal to OKC but I don't think that is necessary to be used in this deal more so useful to BKN as they could trade for Herro by only moving O'Neale and keep their salaries under the tax line.

Miami will be rolling their deal with OKC in with the Oladipo's 9.5mil and possibly Max Strus' 7.3mil cap savers, giving POR more savings on top of the Harris one from BKN/DET deal. Miami will likely absorb Nurkic's deal with our side of it and BKN will absorb Tyler's with Harris' money and O'Neale.

Then it would just be a matter of fair draft compensation for all involved and who's giving what, which is what's likely causing long wait.

good breakdown. So for example, if it's just O'Neale outgoing (good player, expiring contract) then Brooklyn's position could be that a future first in addition would be too much for Herro that could be argued has a negative contract. Which maybe is why Simmons is being talked about (to bridge a value gap from Brooklyn's perspective), which could bring further complications.

[Netaman]

the moratorium ending today will be a good clue as to what is going on and who (if any) teams are seriously engaged with existing trades, because if they are those trades wont get announced.

my money is sitll on the miami/portlant/okc/nets framework eventually pulling through. those teams have a bunch of pieces already interconnected, and can fill various needs for each other.

i think i saw a heat beat writer saying so far miami has only offered portland 2 FRPs, but if OKC gets looped in and the nets send them something (dfs or royce) to unlock a 3rd heat pick, and the nets contribute the philly pick to get herro, all of a sudden portland has 4 picks, expirings, and probably 1 or 2 useful young players.

portland would be smart to seize this moment to prioritize a rational deal they would take from miami. i dont think dragging this out is going to benefit them with lillard focused on 1 place and hope for reconciliation. the nets had at least some minor hope of reconciling with KD, and it almost worked until Kyrie asked out. Had he not done that they may have gotten to the finals this year. 0 chance of that happening in portland.

[Tha King]

the moratorium ending today will be a good clue as to what is going on and who (if any) teams are seriously engaged with existing trades, because if they are those trades wont get announced.

my money is sitll on the miami/portlant/okc/nets framework eventually pulling through. those teams have a bunch of pieces already interconnected, and can fill various needs for each other.

i think i saw a heat beat writer saying so far miami has only offered portland 2 FRPs, but if OKC gets looped in and the nets send them something (dfs or royce) to unlock a 3rd heat pick, and the nets contribute the philly pick to get herro, all of a sudden portland has 4 picks, expirings, and probably 1 or 2 useful young players.

portland would be smart to seize this moment to prioritize a rational deal they would take from miami. i dont think dragging this out is going to benefit them with lillard focused on 1 place and hope for reconciliation. the nets had at least some minor hope of reconciling with KD, and it almost worked until Kyrie asked out. Had he not done that they may have gotten to the finals this year. 0 chance of that happening in portland.

agree, I don't think they will get any benefit from prolonging this. KD is not a good comparable at all. He was on a roster talented enough to still contend and that was happening before he got injured. Would also say if it weren't for Booker and Cam Johnson getting injured the Suns may not have even made that trade in season.

[Netaman]

the moratorium ending today will be a good clue as to what is going on and who (if any) teams are seriously engaged with existing trades, because if they are those trades wont get announced.

my money is sitll on the miami/portlant/okc/nets framework eventually pulling through. those teams have a bunch of pieces already interconnected, and can fill various needs for each other.

i think i saw a heat beat writer saying so far miami has only offered portland 2 FRPs, but if OKC gets looped in and the nets send them something (dfs or royce) to unlock a 3rd heat pick, and the nets contribute the philly pick to get herro, all of a sudden portland has 4 picks, expirings, and probably 1 or 2 useful young players.

portland would be smart to seize this moment to prioritize a rational deal they would take from miami. i dont think dragging this out is going to benefit them with lillard focused on 1 place and hope for reconciliation. the nets had at least some minor hope of reconciling with KD, and it almost worked until Kyrie asked out. Had he not done that they may have gotten to the finals this year. 0 chance of that happening in portland.

agree, I don't think they will get any benefit from prolonging this. KD is not a good comparable at all. He was on a roster talented enough to still contend and that was happening before he got injured. Would also say if it weren't for Booker and Cam Johnson getting injured the Suns may not have even made that trade in season.

if Ishiba didn't come in as owner i dont think they make that trade. Remember how many teams last year were refusing to offer the nets value? and that was with KD naming 3 teams and others being potential considerations on the periphery like toronto.

portland has leverage since miami basically planned their entire offseason around this and butler wants it to happen. if i was cronin i would do the same thing i said marks should do last year - tell lillard "i am happy to send you to your preferred destination, here's my price, you have my permission to call riley and convince him to do the deal".

getting a return comparable to what the suns gave up for KD - minus Bridges - is very doable.

[haosmoove]

I don't know why we are only discussing Simmons OR Herro. There are many other ways to construct a deal where we don't have to give up Simmons. (and additional assets to get rid of him)

Trading Simmons at the absolute lowest point of his value is not a good move. There is a good chance that he can bounce back to semblance of his old self, making Simmons the asset a less negative one. Even if he never regains his form or reinjures himself, his value will also increase because he becomes an expiring. If we attach assets to rid Simmons, what are we gaining? The player coming back that can take us from play in to 6th seed? We are certainly not going to be under the cap this summer.

I like Herro, depending on what we have to give up, I am not against trading for him. My evaluation is the equivalent of 2 protected FRPs. So if we are giving up a combination of Din/DFS/Royce, we shouldn't need to add any more picks. For similar salary, he has to be a better deal than Cam J. I believe he's the better player right now (arguable but they are at least in the same tier) and he's 4 years younger. This means that he makes incremental improvements his contract will look like major bargain.

There's been discussions in Heat circles that the Dame trade may include the not yet official deals with Strus to CLE and Oladipo to OKC and Joe Harris to DET.

Basically you add that deal to this one and BKN would only need to send out another 7.1mil in salary to match Herro's. So they could send out O'Neale's expiring and whatever fair pick compensation they agree to and Herro goes to BKN. Doing this would also fit Tyler's additional salary neatly under the tax line.

I like this, as long as we don't include too many picks.

[Netaman]

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[Paradise]

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The Nets just pushed back the deadline for Sumner’s contract. Interesting. He could fill the salary difference for Herro.

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[Netaman]

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[Netaman]

the 4 team framework has so many interconnections that make sense. if okc wants martin instead of dfs, nets can send oneale or dfs to heat so they can backfill a 3&d player while gaining back their pick flexibility from okc.

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[Paradise]

the 4 team framework has so many interconnections that make sense. if okc wants martin instead of dfs, nets can send oneale or dfs to heat so they can backfill a 3&d player while gaining back their pick flexibility from okc.

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I’d rather find a way to get Martin without moving any combo of DFS, Royce. They fit extremely nicely now that we’re moving on from Joe and Patty.

Walker, DFS, Royce, Clowney will put us in contention for Top 5 defense next to Mikal and Clax. Especially, adding Martin.

[enetric]

Hey guys, making my occasional appearance. Hope everyone is well. I read through the last few pages and I have a cap question I haven't been able to resolve on my own. Does anyone know if the ship has sailed on rolling Harris and/or Patty into other deals or do we have a specific deadline to do that? I was under the impression we could rework those trades into a multi team deal until 7/10. Can anyone say with certainty if that's correct or not? If so...that's 27mil in salary matching we can use in a deal without throwing Ben into a deal at his his lowest value point. And I would think, that's way more attractive to Portland than taking back Herro OR Ben. I mean we know they don't want Herro...I imagine Ben isn't exciting for them either. So what if...we can roll Hou and Det into this deal with us and Portland, find a 5th team, they give up a 1st round pick for Oneale. That's your Dame salary match, one 37mil TE no players going to Portland. Send the pick for Oneale, the rights to Whitehead, 2 more firsts to Portland. Maybe they want Clowney, or one more pick or Cam T. Now we get Dame for ourselves. We keep Ben. We keep Spencer. We keep DFS. We keep our depth...and MOST of our future picks for other moves, obviously the Suns picks are the ones we most want to keep. If we can keep from adding that extra pick, Cam or Clowney...send them the Suns TE instead, and eat Nurkic too. One of the other. That let's them get off both Dame and Nurkic and they took back ZERO salary. I imagine that has value to them. Problem of course is convincing Dame. But anyone who weighs in, 2 questions....

1- is is still doable to use Harris and/or Patty like this sending one giant 37mil TE to Portland?

2- would you do it for Dame if you are keeping our entire roster beyond Oneale and a max of 3 future firsts plus Whitehead?

This is partially correct I think, the moratorium period isn't a deadline for deals to be completed it is the time when deals can be made official, so they could continue to negotiate for some time after that, I believe they would just have to be finalized sometime before the season starts.

I believe the Dame trade will end up being up to a 6 team deal including CLE, OKC and DET. I actually forgot about Mills' deal to OKC but I don't think that is necessary to be used in this deal more so useful to BKN as they could trade for Herro by only moving O'Neale and keep their salaries under the tax line.

Miami will be rolling their deal with OKC in with the Oladipo's 9.5mil and possibly Max Strus' 7.3mil cap savers, giving POR more savings on top of the Harris one from BKN/DET deal. Miami will likely absorb Nurkic's deal with our side of it and BKN will absorb Tyler's with Harris' money and O'Neale.

Then it would just be a matter of fair draft compensation for all involved and who's giving what, which is what's likely causing long wait.

Once Harris or Patty become an official trade, it cannot be modified. It becomes a stand alone TE we have one year to lose. We cannot add salary to it from out end. But...before a trade is made official, you can modify into a multi team deal, and send the cash savings plus contracts as part of a larger deal. And the date is today. Nets apparently can take back more than the TE though this year (cap transition thing?) where it's normally a max of an extra 100K.

[enetric]

I don't know why we are only discussing Simmons OR Herro. There are many other ways to construct a deal where we don't have to give up Simmons. (and additional assets to get rid of him)

Trading Simmons at the absolute lowest point of his value is not a good move. There is a good chance that he can bounce back to semblance of his old self, making Simmons the asset a less negative one. Even if he never regains his form or reinjures himself, his value will also increase because he becomes an expiring. If we attach assets to rid Simmons, what are we gaining? The player coming back that can take us from play in to 6th seed? We are certainly not going to be under the cap this summer.

I like Herro, depending on what we have to give up, I am not against trading for him. My evaluation is the equivalent of 2 protected FRPs. So if we are giving up a combination of Din/DFS/Royce, we shouldn't need to add any more picks. For similar salary, he has to be a better deal than Cam J. I believe he's the better player right now (arguable but they are at least in the same tier) and he's 4 years younger. This means that he makes incremental improvements his contract will look like major bargain.

There's been discussions in Heat circles that the Dame trade may include the not yet official deals with Strus to CLE and Oladipo to OKC and Joe Harris to DET.

Basically you add that deal to this one and BKN would only need to send out another 7.1mil in salary to match Herro's. So they could send out O'Neale's expiring and whatever fair pick compensation they agree to and Herro goes to BKN. Doing this would also fit Tyler's additional salary neatly under the tax line.

Normally they would have to match Herro. But they do not this year. Harris alone they would be allowed to absorb Herro completely. I don't think they will though unless they can move someone else like DFS or Royce for picks to keep under the tax threshold.