Trade/Free Agency Thread, part Ocho, 2023-24

[KamikazeK]

Dame's not a POS. He's not doing anything out of the ordinary. The tough part here though is that usually when these stars ask out the team they want to go to has to give a haul, but in this case MIA has no haul to give. Most of these star trade requests, for all the complaining fans do, usually end up really, really, really great for the team trading them away. They always get absolute hauls of draft picks and some young players. It's a great outcome for both sides usually.

Dame's preferred spot here though is going to **** POR over though because MIA is so asset poor, relatively speaking.

Nah I'd say it's a POS move to sign a contract with one team and then demand to be traded to another partway through while attempting to refuse trades to teams that are equally capable of contending but that might be able to offer better deals in return. Like, if he just wanted to contend then that's less **** but the guy is trying to **** over the team he's getting traded from. It's not "Send me somewhere I can compete," it's "Take back garbage to send me to this one specific place where I can play with my buddies." Lame. POS move.

[playa-hater]

So the sacramento kings just got chris Daurte from the pacers for 2 2nd rd picks..

So the idea that second round picks are not worth it is wrong..

beauty is in the eye of the beholder..

[Celtics_Champs]

One thing I find funny, not once has brown or anyone in his camp said he doesn't want to be on Boston or that he doesn't like it there, but people have said the last 2-3 years that they don't want him on the team partially because he doesn't like Boston and doesn't want to be there (MADE UP).

The SAME people hear out of Dame's OWN mouth, all REPORTS say it, all the top scoop guys say it, and HIS AGENT said that he doesn't want to be there and doesn't like Boston the city, but yall would give anything for Brad to bring him in anyway!

COMEDY! Stop trying to cloak your disdain for brown with made up things but willingly bend over backwards to ignore it in Dame's case.

This isn't personal for me. I want our best shot of winning a title. Point blank. It was the same for when I wanted him shipped out for KD. Dame, whether he says he wants to play in Boston or not (I don't think he'll sit out once he gets to Boston), gives us a better chance at a championship. "Disdain for Brown" is really "disdain for his game". While he still has value to the Celtics winning, his flaws (no need to rehash) also put a ceiling on this team (similar to however some fans view Smart and his shortcomings). As the team's number 2, I expect more from him than any of our role players. And before anyone asks, "why don't you trade Tatum instead when he's also fallen short of being the #1?" Cos it's harder to get equal value for JT in return. If you trade Brown++ for Dame or KD, your top two guys would immediately be among the best in the league, if not the best. Shorter window, but higher ceiling. I want to win. Beyond the ECFs. Beyond winning 2 games in the Finals. Give me the best shot at a title. I'd trade JT for Jokic right now if possible but then Joe might not know what to do with him.

I really don't know what this has to do with what I said. People who were talking about Brown not wanting to be in Boston are some of the same people willing to let it slide in Dame's case. Dame, his agent, media/top guys have all said what people were mad at Brown for when he's the one who never said it.

I never argued the merits of Dame as a player, I said he's been a fav for years.

Dame has never played here. The hope is once he gets here he will fall in love with the history of the Boston Celtics, just like KG did.

Moot point though because his efforts to get to Miami are working.

[Larry_Russell]

Speaking about idiot fans is bad?

is it positive?

There was more said, but in a nutshell.


And have you heard other players talk about their own fans in any negative way?

Keep reaching for straws.

I have no problem with calling out idiot fans.

Not reaching.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Attack Of The Dropping Dimes...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[hugepatsfan]

droppingdimes20 is the real one right?

Rest are imposters I think

[ddb]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Cronin ends up tabling the trade for now and bringing Dame back then revisiting a deal in-season.
If a deal doesn’t happen before Vegas gets out I think that’s what will happen.

[165bows]

While Brad collects 2nd rounders, HOU just giving them away. For Dillon **** Brooks, of all players.

Read on Twitter

It's because they have no value and no one in the league wants them.

They're almost completely useless.

The irony of them being completely useless while Houston is using the same 2nd rounders to help build their roster.

Speaking of this move, the number of debates on the T+T board I've ended up being so right on that I am not going back over there to crow about is getting really pretty high.

Like, not even super low single digits kind of high.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Hoping this is similar to the time when they were trying to get Hayward and ended up paying Olynyk.

[165bows]

droppingdimes20 is the real one right?

Rest are imposters I think

That one isn't even trying. Discussions with Tate? Like, tampering discussions?

[keevsnick1]

But Tatum and Brown didn't win the title. All of this we were 5 minutes away from going up 3-1 stuff is all woulda coulda shoulda.

We didn't finish off game 4. And even if we did, there's no guarantee we would have won the series. We were facing a team with the greatest shooter of all time, a team with WAY more NBA finals experience than us - they were a group of players (and HC) that had already won 3 titles together.

We lost 3 games in a row to lose the series to GS. Just like we lost 3 games in a row this season to Miami. Those are facts.

No team in the last 22 years has won a title with 2 high usage (30% or higher), low assist (under 25%) guys on it. None, zilch, nada.

This season, JB was 66th in the league in BPM. He was 97th in Box Score RAPTOR, 76th in Overall RAPTOR, 181st in on/off RAPTOR.

In this year's playoffs, JB was 33rd in on/off RAPTOR, behind Tatum, Brogdon, Horford, Rob and Smart.

His best season ever, in 21-22 he was still only 29th in the league in Overall RAPTOR.

JB is probably not going to be the #2 best player on a championship team. He's definitely not worth a supermax $60 mil a year contract.

So? Neither did Giannis/Middleton until they did. Or Jokic/Murray until they did. Winning a title is hard, 1 team does it per year, the Celtics have done it once in the last 37 years.

I don't buy the "two high USG low passing guys can't win" That's as much to do with just the sheer rarity of having two over 30% USG guys then it is that combination not working. A lot of years there won't even be a single team with two players over 30% USG. I've posted this before, but the C's with Tatum+Brown on the court have been good, very good, just raw net rating wise. Those two together work.

Brown had a bad advanced stats year last year, he was pretty good the year before that tho by those same stats. I don't really care about them tho tbh, he's good, he adds value, he works with Tatum. If Tatum played in the 22' finals the way he did in the BRK series first round Brown would have been the 2nd best player on a title team, so i'm not sure how the argument can possibly be he can't.

In the end it doesn't really matter what we think. By all accounts they are re-signing Brown, its happening. Ultimately we will see in time if its the right move.

Brown has never been a top 25 player in the league according to any advanced stat that I have seen. Most seasons he hasn't even been a top 50 player according to most advanced stats.

Giannis was the best player in the world when MIL won the title. Jokic was the best player in the world when denver won the title. Tatum is *maybe* top 4..which means for us to have any shot at a title, we need to improve our #2 guy, we need to upgrade from JB.

Not to mention Giannis had an assist % of 34 and Jokic had an assist % of 46. Of the current Celtics players, the highest % on the team is 21 - yikes..

Lakers had 2 pretty high usage guys in 2020. LeBron at 31% and AD at 29%. But LeBron that season posted an insane 49% assist rate, the 2 of them were both top 5 players in the league during those playoffs and AD was an elite defender. Compare that to Tatum and Brown - 1 of them is nowhere close to being a top 5 player, neither is an elite defender and the highest assist % of either of them was 21%.

Curry and KD were both 30% or higher usage in 2018. But again, we're talking about 2 of the top 5 players in the league here. And Curry had a 30% assist rate, 25% assist rate for KD...compare that to Tatum at 21%, Brown at 16%, with Brown nowhere near being a top 5 player in the league.

How about LeBron and Wade? Both with somewhat similar usage % to Tatum and brown. But Lebron was the best player on the planet. Lebron was a better player, better defender than Tatum. Wade was a better player, better defender than JB. In 2011 and 2012, Lebron had assist % of 33 and 36, while Wade's was 26 and 27. Compare that to Tatum and Brown at 21 and 16. Not even remotely close.

Sure, Tatum and Brown could maybe win a ring together. But the odds are stacked against them. The data tells us that is probably won't happen. The data also tells us that JB is not worth a $60 mil a year contract. Lots of the advanced stats tell us that JB is not even a top 5 player on the Celtics right now..

No, what that means is Tatum needs to play like the best player in the world (legit MVO level). That's usually how a team wins the title. To some degree none of this matters if he doesn't. Replace Brown any guy in the 15-30 range and that's still going to be the thing that decides whether the c's win a title.

Again: they've already came close multiple times. A title is stacked against any team any individual year, that's why you try to stay in it over a 4-5 year period.

[Scarletfire81]

This is pretty much our team for next season.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Read on Twitter

[Celtics_Champs]

Read on Twitter

Hoping this is similar to the time when they were trying to get Hayward and ended up paying Olynyk.

Really hoping he ends up anywhere but Miami.

[Shak_Celts]

Read on Twitter

Even when he looked like he was about to ask KP to marry him he looked like he'd been through hell. Probably has a new understanding and respect for the years Danny put in. I can't imagine how he felt trading Smart. Brad will always look young but he looks weathered x10 lately.

[tbceltics34]

Looking at the roster as it currently stands, as much as I loved Smart, getting Porzingis and the picks in return was a no brainer. Gives us more options on offense.

Grant was in and out of the rotation. I never thought it was feasible to bring him back, so getting a couple seconds in return was the best possible outcome.

Brissett and Banton, I don't know much about them but think they will be deep reserves, maybe carve out a roll if they show potential in the Celtics gameplan.

Don't know if this is a good way at looking at it or if it was even possible to keep some of these players but while I feel these moves made the Celtics more balanced, I truly don't think these moves make the Celtics better than they were last year. Would you rather have Porzingis, Walsh, Brissett, Banton....or Smart, Grant, Gallo, Musc.

I truly don't know if the roster is better. I hope I can be proved wrong and that more moves will be made to reshape the depth/balance of the roster but as of right now, I am a bit disappointed with how this offseason has gone. Especially considering we saw reports stating Brad received the green light to spend and a report we got from Brian Robb stating after the Porzingis trade that, "the Celtics are far from done after trading for Kristaps." I highly doubt they would be referring to the 4 draft night trades of the sources saying the Celtics are far from done after trading for Zingus.

So while I am still hopeful more moves will be made, I am also trying to approach with caution as I've been let down by this team far too many times before.

[Salahmanders]

No, what that means is Tatum needs to play like the best player in the world (legit MVO level). That's usually how a team wins the title. To some degree none of this matters if he doesn't. Replace Brown any guy in the 15-30 range and that's still going to be the thing that decides whether the c's win a title...

Been saying this for ages. If Tatum has 1 game in the Miami series like game 7 against Philly, we win that series, despite everything else. We need him to be the best player, the way Jokic was this year, the way Giannis was the year Milwaukee won, etc. Over the past 44 seasons, all but one of the titles (2004 Pistons) have been won by 16 players who are all first ballot, all time greats. If we're going to win, it's because Tatum takes that step (with the right guys around him, yes, but he needs to take that step).

[Riverwalk2021]

Porzingis unlocks so much on both ends.

The handwringing with Grant's departure is hilarious. Apparently, he was the glue of our team; a guy who averaged 8ppg and stacked up a bunch of DNPCDs at the end of the season and in the POs lol.

The biggest concern I have is still Clueless Joe. That deer in the headlight look he had in the POs was scary

[Shak_Celts]

Looking at the roster as it currently stands, as much as I loved Smart, getting Porzingis and the picks in return was a no brainer. Gives us more options on offense.

Grant was in and out of the rotation. I never thought it was feasible to bring him back, so getting a couple seconds in return was the best possible outcome.

Brissett and Banton, I don't know much about them but think they will be deep reserves, maybe carve out a roll if they show potential in the Celtics gameplan.

Don't know if this is a good way at looking at it or if it was even possible to keep some of these players but while I feel these moves made the Celtics more balanced, I truly don't think these moves make the Celtics better than they were last year. Would you rather have Porzingis, Walsh, Brissett, Banton....or Smart, Grant, Gallo, Musc.

I truly don't know if the roster is better. I hope I can be proved wrong and that more moves will be made to reshape the depth/balance of the roster but as of right now, I am a bit disappointed with how this offseason has gone. Especially considering we saw reports stating Brad received the green light to spend and a report we got from Brian Robb stating after the Porzingis trade that, "the Celtics are far from done after trading for Kristaps." I highly doubt they would be referring to the 4 draft night trades of the sources saying the Celtics are far from done after trading for Zingus.

So while I am still hopeful more moves will be made, I am also trying to approach with caution as I've been let down by this team far too many times before.

We didn't have Gallo. Muscy didn't play. Grant is pretty good IMO but he fell out of the rotation and when he hit back in it was too little too late to be very meaningful. Smart is my boo, but there is no doubt a healthy KP is an upgraded, forget about the picks and chemistry for now, this is actual play based. On paper, we are better if simply counting porzingis. Better than the season before last? Who knows, because everything went right for that team until the very end. Marcus and Grant were excellent that year, that doesn't include all the other things that went right, I think everyone was near the height of the powers the second half of that season.

[hugepatsfan]

Walsh signed a 4 year deal. Our current cap situation...

Demetrius Jackson (Dead$) 92,857
Kristaps Porzingis 36,016,200
Jayson Tatum 32,600,060
Jaylen Brown 31,830,357
Malcolm Brogdon 22,500,000
Derrick White 18,357,143
Robert Williams III 11,571,429
Al Horford 10,000,000
Payton Pritchard 4,037,278
Luke Kornet 2,413,304
Oshae Brissett 2,165,000
Dalano Banton 2,019,706
Sam Hauser 1,927,896
Justin Champagnie 1,927,896
Jordan Walsh 1,119,563

W/out incentives 178,578,689
Super Tax Apron 182,794,000
Compared to Super Tax Apron (4,215,311)

14 players signed, $4.2M left below 2nd apron

Should be able to use the TPE or the full MLE if we salary dump Pritchard somewhere. I doubt we use the MLE though because then we'd be hard capped without any ability to go over 2nd apron if something comes up. Also slim pickings in FA anways.