Woj: Harden Opting into $35.6M Player Option and Demanding Trade from Philly; Wants to Play for the Clippers

[Exp0sed]

[b]r

He absolutely took less money to help the team. How did they sign Tucker and open the non tax MLE without Harden taking taking less money? Embiid specifically asked for Tucker and Harden delivered him. Harden also helped the team duck the tax last year. As stated, teams that go all in on contending maximize the talent pool for team or trade purposes and operate above the cap. A team like the Warriors never let their free agents walk when they were building. They always got something back. Philly is operating to save the owner money and is acting half in. That’s the part Harden is most pissed about.

did u read my post?

it's a fact he took less money, the question is why?

I claimed that the 76ers weren't willing to offer him a long term max when he hasn't even demonstrated he isn't washed (after the trade and hamstring injury)

they publically allowed him to save face by claiming he took one for the team but in reality - they didn't want to give him that little extra and they used that extra for PJ

after seeing Embiid embrassing himself in the playoffs again, I can't say I blame the owner

the Warriors?
Steph delievered! and so did Klay and Dray

they were already champions when those extention and luxury tax questions came into play
Embiid can't stay on the court and even when he does he gets shut down in the playoffs, it's not the same situation at all

if Embiid would have delieverd a ring or at least one great run - i'm sure owner would be alot more willing to go into the tax for his supporting cast. but why pay millions in salary and tens of millions in tax just for a 2nd round exit?

[Exp0sed]

.

Harden took less money so Morey could bring in his guys Tucker and House.

Getting your boys paid is still pretty much you getting paid.

that's the story sure. but did it really happen like that or were the 76ers not willing to max him so they told that story so Harden can save face publically?

[HardenGoat]

i'm not sure that's accurate

Harden forced his way to the 76ers and following the trade (and still recovering from that Nets hamstring injury) - he wasn't his best self post the trade (i'm talking about 2022) - yeah it was only like 20 games but he shot 40% from the field and like 32% from 3 and the talk (including on this forum) was that he was washed etc

he didn't really take less money to help the team, the 76ers weren't willing to max him but he still wanted to stay so he took a little paycut and was allowed to save face by telling the media it was for team building, selfless purposes

we don't know what kind of specific understanding there was between Morey and Harden at the time of the trade, it's just rumors and speculation. if Morey really promised him he will be maxed and then didn't get a max offer (last offseaso) - then he would have demanded a trade then and there so i don't buy that it actually happened

more likely: both sides assumed there will be a max extention coming but Harden's poor play in 2021 put a damper on that

Morey didn't commit to it, i don't believe for a second he committed and then backed out and Harden was cool with it
that's an unlikely scenario so those reports were probably like most reports - made up click bait off the top of the dome of some reporter

He absolutely took less money to help the team. How did they sign Tucker and open the non tax MLE without Harden taking taking less money? Embiid specifically asked for Tucker and Harden delivered him. Harden also helped the team duck the tax last year. As stated, teams that go all in on contending maximize the talent pool for team or trade purposes and operate above the cap. A team like the Warriors never let their free agents walk when they were building. They always got something back. Philly is operating to save the owner money and is acting half in. That’s the part Harden is most pissed about.

Harden took less money so Morey could bring in his guys Tucker and House.

Getting your boys paid is still pretty much you getting paid.

Hogwash. Who got the 15 million tax disbursement money? The players? Harden helped the owner duck the tax and reset it. Do you not think they talked about going all in this year when he dropped the number under that line? Tucker and House represent tradable assets let alone salary slots. What Harden did made the team flexible in improving the roster. They were going to get paid regardless of what team they were on. That argument makes no sense.

[the_process]

what i like about this is the spin that it would be better to just get expiring contracts and 2 picks instead of getting... good players... like Powell and Mann. You dont need to have zero contracts on the book going into 2024. youre like... WAAAAY better off having movable assets than hoping maybe you can sign *checks notes* dejounte murray in a year. lol.

And if your philly, if you're apparently going to lose one way or another, why are you in a rush to move this guy for the lowest of lowball possible offers? it does not behoove them to do that. if youre really correct that its a punt year, you might as well look for the best deal for him. you really arent making much sense. your argument is all over the place.

Mann is fine, but is not a needle mover.

Powell is a bench guard. Again, he's fine but nothing special.

Your definition of good player is hysterical.

If they can get Lillard or Paul George, then do that. But they won't be able to.

If you want clean books, then clean the books. Don't trade for a guy you then have to trade again.

Oh, and I probably should add the Clippers have to take back PJ Tucker, too. So the full trade would be Harden and Tucker for Batum, Covington, Morris, UNP 2028 1st, and UNP 2030 1st.

Literally wiping the roster clean outside of Embiid so that you can overpay a limited and not particularly impressive FA class in 2024 (assuming players dont just sign new contracts with their current teams) is not a good strategy and thats your answer as to why Morrey isnt going after your proposed trade deal... because its terrible lol. They dont need to have "clean books" in a year. having cap flexibility is great. having 1 or 2 people on your roster and then filling up in FA is what young rebuilding teams do. Embiid aint young and if you think this team should be rebuilding you might as well kiss him goodbye cos hes not sticking around for that. The grown up teams who want to contend for a title tend to operator over the cap by moving contracts around to pick up as much talent as possible. the team you're proposing doing this deal with is one of those teams. they're not concerned with clearing their books. their the ones looking to trade out the expiring contracts and picks to get maximum talent.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

No one is trading an impact player for Harden.

Holding on to Harden does not increase his value, it decreases it because Harden has shown he will go nuclear.

Keeping Harden, even if he's happy, doesn't help you win.

Morey's frigging job is to keep Embiid on board while he tries to fix the trash roster of the Sixers. But if he cannot do that and Embiid asks out, then just blow it up. The Sixers are not winning anything as is.

Free agency is not a great plan, but once you make the plan stick to it and try to maximize it.

[ryguy613]

Mann is fine, but is not a needle mover.

Powell is a bench guard. Again, he's fine but nothing special.

Your definition of good player is hysterical.

If they can get Lillard or Paul George, then do that. But they won't be able to.

If you want clean books, then clean the books. Don't trade for a guy you then have to trade again.

Oh, and I probably should add the Clippers have to take back PJ Tucker, too. So the full trade would be Harden and Tucker for Batum, Covington, Morris, UNP 2028 1st, and UNP 2030 1st.

Literally wiping the roster clean outside of Embiid so that you can overpay a limited and not particularly impressive FA class in 2024 (assuming players dont just sign new contracts with their current teams) is not a good strategy and thats your answer as to why Morrey isnt going after your proposed trade deal... because its terrible lol. They dont need to have "clean books" in a year. having cap flexibility is great. having 1 or 2 people on your roster and then filling up in FA is what young rebuilding teams do. Embiid aint young and if you think this team should be rebuilding you might as well kiss him goodbye cos hes not sticking around for that. The grown up teams who want to contend for a title tend to operator over the cap by moving contracts around to pick up as much talent as possible. the team you're proposing doing this deal with is one of those teams. they're not concerned with clearing their books. their the ones looking to trade out the expiring contracts and picks to get maximum talent.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

No one is trading an impact player for Harden.

Holding on to Harden does not increase his value, it decreases it because Harden has shown he will go nuclear.

Keeping Harden, even if he's happy, doesn't help you win.

Morey's frigging job is to keep Embiid on board while he tries to fix the trash roster of the Sixers. But if he cannot do that and Embiid asks out, then just blow it up. The Sixers are not winning anything as is.

Free agency is not a great plan, but once you make the plan stick to it and try to maximize it.

,,,you work for the clippers. you know it, I know it... just come out in the open and admit it. this act isnt fooling anyone.

[the_process]

Literally wiping the roster clean outside of Embiid so that you can overpay a limited and not particularly impressive FA class in 2024 (assuming players dont just sign new contracts with their current teams) is not a good strategy and thats your answer as to why Morrey isnt going after your proposed trade deal... because its terrible lol. They dont need to have "clean books" in a year. having cap flexibility is great. having 1 or 2 people on your roster and then filling up in FA is what young rebuilding teams do. Embiid aint young and if you think this team should be rebuilding you might as well kiss him goodbye cos hes not sticking around for that. The grown up teams who want to contend for a title tend to operator over the cap by moving contracts around to pick up as much talent as possible. the team you're proposing doing this deal with is one of those teams. they're not concerned with clearing their books. their the ones looking to trade out the expiring contracts and picks to get maximum talent.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

No one is trading an impact player for Harden.

Holding on to Harden does not increase his value, it decreases it because Harden has shown he will go nuclear.

Keeping Harden, even if he's happy, doesn't help you win.

Morey's frigging job is to keep Embiid on board while he tries to fix the trash roster of the Sixers. But if he cannot do that and Embiid asks out, then just blow it up. The Sixers are not winning anything as is.

Free agency is not a great plan, but once you make the plan stick to it and try to maximize it.

,,,you work for the clippers. you know it, I know it... just come out in the open and admit it. this act isnt fooling anyone.

And you're a GB Harden fan boy thinking it's still 2017. Come on, just come out in the open and admit it.

[ryguy613]

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

No one is trading an impact player for Harden.

Holding on to Harden does not increase his value, it decreases it because Harden has shown he will go nuclear.

Keeping Harden, even if he's happy, doesn't help you win.

Morey's frigging job is to keep Embiid on board while he tries to fix the trash roster of the Sixers. But if he cannot do that and Embiid asks out, then just blow it up. The Sixers are not winning anything as is.

Free agency is not a great plan, but once you make the plan stick to it and try to maximize it.

,,,you work for the clippers. you know it, I know it... just come out in the open and admit it. this act isnt fooling anyone.

And you're a GB Harden fan boy thinking it's still 2017. Come on, just come out in the open and admit it.

The truth is im a fan boy of fat harden only. its like the mcrib. it only comes around so often and you gotta appreciate it when its here.

[kuclas]

If I'm Philly and Harden forces the situation, i would do everything in my power to figure out how to get in on the Dame situation. Basically Dame to Philly, Harden to Team C, and Team C provides assets to Portland.

Does replacing Harden with Dame actually make Philly a title contender though? I'm personally not sure.

Absolutely, however Embiid still needs to get it together in the post-season.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

[ryguy613]

Does replacing Harden with Dame actually make Philly a title contender though? I'm personally not sure.

Absolutely, however Embiid still needs to get it together in the post-season.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

[jstross]

If Moray doesn't land one or two stars FAs with all the money the Sixers will have for 24 then I think Embiid asks out. I think he'll be willing to wait until then.

Absolutely, however Embiid still needs to get it together in the post-season.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

[ryguy613]

If Moray doesn't land one or two stars FAs with all the money the Sixers will have for 24 then I think Embiid asks out. I think he'll be willing to wait until then.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

yeah but as ive discussed in other posts on this thread, theres a little problem with that strategy... there are no stars in the 24 FA class.

[jstross]

They should still be able to upgrade the talent level on the roster. Maybe JAlen Brown or someone else is available.

If Moray doesn't land one or two stars FAs with all the money the Sixers will have for 24 then I think Embiid asks out. I think he'll be willing to wait until then.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

yeah but as ive discussed in other posts on this thread, theres a little problem with that strategy... there are no stars in the 24 FA class.

[ryguy613]

They should still be able to upgrade the talent level on the roster. Maybe JAlen Brown or someone else is available.

If Moray doesn't land one or two stars FAs with all the money the Sixers will have for 24 then I think Embiid asks out. I think he'll be willing to wait until then.

yeah but as ive discussed in other posts on this thread, theres a little problem with that strategy... there are no stars in the 24 FA class.

im sorry man but no... Brown is not going to be available. or at least it isnt likely. Brown is obviously going to want the supermax and the only team that can give him that is boston. theyre working on the negotiations now. if that falls apart, hes going to be traded somewhere, with the expectation that he will sign long term. From Boston's side of things there is a zero percent chance that they will let him walk into free agency for nothing. So basically your only hope is that he doesnt sign the super max, boston trades him, and the team he gets traded to is a bad fit... thats just a lot of things that would need to go right. seems very very very unlikely

[HardenGoat]

Absolutely, however Embiid still needs to get it together in the post-season.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

Why would Embiid ask out? He hasn’t played up to snuff in the playoffs. I could see asking out if you put up stellar playoff numbers and the team fails you every year. The other question is how would he fit in with an established star on their own team? Especially one that favors ball movement and passing. Best bet is to see if Nurse can install a more dynamic offensive system that spreads the floor for him.

[jstross]

Sixers were the best three point shooting team in the NBA last year. And that's with Embiids awful three shooting(33%). NUrse better have him almost exclusively on the block unless pick and roll.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

Why would Embiid ask out? He hasn’t played up to snuff in the playoffs. I could see asking out if you put up stellar playoff numbers and the team fails you every year. The other question is how would he fit in with an established star on their own team? Especially one that favors ball movement and passing. Best bet is to see if Nurse can install a more dynamic offensive system that spreads the floor for him.

[ryguy613]

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

Why would Embiid ask out? He hasn’t played up to snuff in the playoffs. I could see asking out if you put up stellar playoff numbers and the team fails you every year. The other question is how would he fit in with an established star on their own team? Especially one that favors ball movement and passing. Best bet is to see if Nurse can install a more dynamic offensive system that spreads the floor for him.

because what direction are they going? if im Embiid, give me the elevator pitch about why i should trust youre going to put the right pieces around me to compete for a title? The team has no stability... in his time there Butler is criminally mishandled by the FO, Simmons went from being a star to a chump, Harden wants out after a year and a half. Embiid is going to be 30 this coming season... he already seemed unhappy after they lost Jimmy. Once hes in his 30's and hes told to just be patient while the team chases cap space and hopes to sign some middling FA's in 2024?

You may feel like hes to blame for a lot of this, and hell maybe he is... but even if thats true hes not going to see it that way. hes going to get tired of losing in the 2nd round, and hes gonna want a fresh start.

[jstross]

Embiid is a big part of the second rd exits. As are HArden and Doc. Hoping Nurse makes a significant impact but we'll see.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

Why would Embiid ask out? He hasn’t played up to snuff in the playoffs. I could see asking out if you put up stellar playoff numbers and the team fails you every year. The other question is how would he fit in with an established star on their own team? Especially one that favors ball movement and passing. Best bet is to see if Nurse can install a more dynamic offensive system that spreads the floor for him.

because what direction are they going? if im Embiid, give me the elevator pitch about why i should trust youre going to put the right pieces around me to compete for a title? The team has no stability... in his time there Butler is criminally mishandled by the FO, Simmons went from being a star to a chump, Harden wants out after a year and a half. Embiid is going to be 30 this coming season... he already seemed unhappy after they lost Jimmy. Once hes in his 30's and hes told to just be patient while the team chases cap space and hopes to sign some middling FA's in 2024?

You may feel like hes to blame for a lot of this, and hell maybe he is... but even if thats true hes not going to see it that way. hes going to get tired of losing in the 2nd round, and hes gonna want a fresh start.

[ryguy613]

Embiid is a big part of the second rd exits. As are HArden and Doc. Hoping Nurse makes a significant impact but we'll see.

Why would Embiid ask out? He hasn’t played up to snuff in the playoffs. I could see asking out if you put up stellar playoff numbers and the team fails you every year. The other question is how would he fit in with an established star on their own team? Especially one that favors ball movement and passing. Best bet is to see if Nurse can install a more dynamic offensive system that spreads the floor for him.

because what direction are they going? if im Embiid, give me the elevator pitch about why i should trust youre going to put the right pieces around me to compete for a title? The team has no stability... in his time there Butler is criminally mishandled by the FO, Simmons went from being a star to a chump, Harden wants out after a year and a half. Embiid is going to be 30 this coming season... he already seemed unhappy after they lost Jimmy. Once hes in his 30's and hes told to just be patient while the team chases cap space and hopes to sign some middling FA's in 2024?

You may feel like hes to blame for a lot of this, and hell maybe he is... but even if thats true hes not going to see it that way. hes going to get tired of losing in the 2nd round, and hes gonna want a fresh start.

i agree with you to an extent. I do think health has been a big concern for him. Regardless, in the current NBA climate a superstar player getting up there in years who cant seem to get over the hump is due to ask out if they dont see a roster put around them by the FO that seems extremely competitive. Last year i thought they had one... after a Harden trade request? I dunno. how are they going to fix this roster, realistically.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Absolutely, however Embiid still needs to get it together in the post-season.

Embiid needs to stay healthy.

He’s missed games in almost every playoff 2018,2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 due to injuries. and it’s scary they can’t make it past the second round and it’s mainly due to him not being healthy. So it’s not harden or even lillard. It’s embiid that’s the key for the sixers.

If I was Embiid i would just ask out at this point.

As mentioned though earlier in this thread by others, JE inability to perform and/or stay healthy is a big reason for their playoff failures

[jstross]

What could the Sixers get as the best possible return for Embiid? If they decide to blow it up he'd obviously bring back the most.