Magic waive F Bol Bol

[VFX]

Wow I’m surprised this thread is still going, but I’m enjoying the read.

The indecision is the reason people don’t like the way this FO operates. They take such little risks that it’s always the path of least resistance. Now, some people might say that’s a good thing and I’d argue it’s absolutely not in their position.

Sure, people don’t like kicking the second round picks down the road unless it’s for a Michigan player. Doing it every season with scrubs still on the roster? Not sure that’s a good look to forgo developing internal talent. People can’t praise Miami every season and disregard how Orlando handles those decisions.

The Vuc/Bamba decision has been rehashed a million times. They should have traded him in year 3 after it was clear Vuc was playing the majority of minutes and they botched the pick. Move him for another guy buried on a bench somewhere, as filler in another trade, or an extremely late first.

Fournier and Ross were basically net zero assets by the time they were moved. The indecision on them was bad. The handling of them as assets, comically bad. Bol is just another example of gauging interest in the wrong timeframe. He had probably 1/3 the value during the draft than in February, which is when they were gauging interest. Tbh I doubt many of us would care about Bols return if there weren’t so many other examples of the same thing.

Drafting Okeke is another topic you could go deep on. Far too many “playing the long game” approaches when the team is in rebuild mode now and not stashing assets as a playoff team to remain under cap. Another argument could be made about Isaac, his contract, and where his value is currently.

Trading for Fultz was a risk. I’d argue it didn’t really pay off amazingly. Would you rather have Fultz or Maxey and Thybulle? Considering we just drafted Black I’d say the trade was either a wash or a loss depending on what Fultz becomes as an asset.

The next big question will be the handling of Fultz, Cole, and Black. Do they wait until the last minute on an expiring to trade them? Will they just let them walk despite that being a terrible move for a GM? Do they extend them and then trade? Do they keep them all until the very last minute like Ross and Fournier? History tells us how they handle situations like this.

I will absolutely give them credit on the Vuc deal. They robbed Chicago blind. The AG deal was just OK.

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

[SOUL]

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

What I get from this is that you are a fan of the teardown (post Vuc-Fournier-Gordon), and have hope in the talent of the players on the roster, especially Paolo and Franz, but you don't have faith that they will be able to.. "stock the cupboard further" or make the right moves that it takes to push it to the next level when the time for it comes. Is that fair to say?

From my perspective, you can't continue to add young guys, assess their talent in a year or two, add more young guys, and expect all the minutes to neatly add up and for things to be as fair as the 5th-6th drafted young guys in year 3 (Black-Jett) versus someone like Franz who was starting day 1. There are going to be logistical problems at some point in drafting and assessing where assessing is a 2, 3, sometimes 4 year thing (Poku with OKC), and the fact that they haven't given contracts.. is what gives me hope that they are taking a lot of things into account and being smart, if not annoyingly patient about it. Time is about up on a few guys.

I hope you're able to see that perspective. I think they will try to get a big fish in the next season - I don't think there's a rush to do anything this offseason, but I do understand the hesitancy because of their history of extensions, non-moves, etc. And they are bound to extend at least one of the guards which is going to piss off at least some of the fanbase.. but I do think they see the need for shooting and dynamic guard skills.

[jezzerinho]

Wow I’m surprised this thread is still going, but I’m enjoying the read.

The indecision is the reason people don’t like the way this FO operates. They take such little risks that it’s always the path of least resistance. Now, some people might say that’s a good thing and I’d argue it’s absolutely not in their position.

Sure, people don’t like kicking the second round picks down the road unless it’s for a Michigan player. Doing it every season with scrubs still on the roster? Not sure that’s a good look to forgo developing internal talent. People can’t praise Miami every season and disregard how Orlando handles those decisions.

The Vuc/Bamba decision has been rehashed a million times. They should have traded him in year 3 after it was clear Vuc was playing the majority of minutes and they botched the pick. Move him for another guy buried on a bench somewhere, as filler in another trade, or an extremely late first.

Fournier and Ross were basically net zero assets by the time they were moved. The indecision on them was bad. The handling of them as assets, comically bad. Bol is just another example of gauging interest in the wrong timeframe. He had probably 1/3 the value during the draft than in February, which is when they were gauging interest. Tbh I doubt many of us would care about Bols return if there weren’t so many other examples of the same thing.

Drafting Okeke is another topic you could go deep on. Far too many “playing the long game” approaches when the team is in rebuild mode now and not stashing assets as a playoff team to remain under cap. Another argument could be made about Isaac, his contract, and where his value is currently.

Trading for Fultz was a risk. I’d argue it didn’t really pay off amazingly. Would you rather have Fultz or Maxey and Thybulle? Considering we just drafted Black I’d say the trade was either a wash or a loss depending on what Fultz becomes as an asset.

The next big question will be the handling of Fultz, Cole, and Black. Do they wait until the last minute on an expiring to trade them? Will they just let them walk despite that being a terrible move for a GM? Do they extend them and then trade? Do they keep them all until the very last minute like Ross and Fournier? History tells us how they handle situations like this.

I will absolutely give them credit on the Vuc deal. They robbed Chicago blind. The AG deal was just OK.

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

You put it more diplomatically than I do, but we're in agreement.

Theyre obviously not unaware of the cap and how it'll develop over the next couple of years, as our better players really get paid.

So, I'm sure they have a plan for managing the logjam for playing time, extensions and team mesh. I mightnt agree with the plan, but they have one.

What i struggle to forgive is how they're managing the development of Wagner and Banchero. All this mucking around with guards will slow their progress, at a time when the FO could and should be helping them with complementary, veteran pros.

[fendilim]

Wow I’m surprised this thread is still going, but I’m enjoying the read.

The indecision is the reason people don’t like the way this FO operates. They take such little risks that it’s always the path of least resistance. Now, some people might say that’s a good thing and I’d argue it’s absolutely not in their position.

Sure, people don’t like kicking the second round picks down the road unless it’s for a Michigan player. Doing it every season with scrubs still on the roster? Not sure that’s a good look to forgo developing internal talent. People can’t praise Miami every season and disregard how Orlando handles those decisions.

The Vuc/Bamba decision has been rehashed a million times. They should have traded him in year 3 after it was clear Vuc was playing the majority of minutes and they botched the pick. Move him for another guy buried on a bench somewhere, as filler in another trade, or an extremely late first.

Fournier and Ross were basically net zero assets by the time they were moved. The indecision on them was bad. The handling of them as assets, comically bad. Bol is just another example of gauging interest in the wrong timeframe. He had probably 1/3 the value during the draft than in February, which is when they were gauging interest. Tbh I doubt many of us would care about Bols return if there weren’t so many other examples of the same thing.

Drafting Okeke is another topic you could go deep on. Far too many “playing the long game” approaches when the team is in rebuild mode now and not stashing assets as a playoff team to remain under cap. Another argument could be made about Isaac, his contract, and where his value is currently.

Trading for Fultz was a risk. I’d argue it didn’t really pay off amazingly. Would you rather have Fultz or Maxey and Thybulle? Considering we just drafted Black I’d say the trade was either a wash or a loss depending on what Fultz becomes as an asset.

The next big question will be the handling of Fultz, Cole, and Black. Do they wait until the last minute on an expiring to trade them? Will they just let them walk despite that being a terrible move for a GM? Do they extend them and then trade? Do they keep them all until the very last minute like Ross and Fournier? History tells us how they handle situations like this.

I will absolutely give them credit on the Vuc deal. They robbed Chicago blind. The AG deal was just OK.

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

Management can do better than what we have right now, sure.

But I don’t think it is as bad as it is being played out to be.

This is the roster the last game before we blew it up

Vuc
Fournier
AG
Chason Randle*
Aminu*
Bacon*
Birch
Okeke
Bamba
MCW*
clark*
mane*
Ross*
Cole anthony
Isaac

Almost half of the team are now out of the NBA

Today our roster stands at
Fultz
Isaac
Okeke
Anthony
Franz
Banchero
Suggs
Houstan
Howard
Black
Ingles
M wagner
G harris
Bitdze
Wcj

I think this is quite a haul given that its been only 2.5 seasons.

I don’t blame Fournier and Ross. They just never had the value. We’ve been, reportedly, dangling them for 1st round picks almost every trade deadline even before their last year in Orlando. We couldn’t get any.

They messed up on picking Okeke and Bamba. So far Weltman have made 10 draft picks. We’ve seen 8 of them picks play already. 2 are unknown (Black and Howard). Out of the 8, 2 are fails (Okeke and Bamba), Isaac is an asterisk (who knew he’d get injured? He was good when healthy). 5 are key part of our rotation. I think getting 6 out of 8 draft picks well is pretty good. Not to mention, we have been set up well with all of our 1st round picks still with us, and 2nd rounders. We have a total of 8 1st round picks and 14 2nd round picks spread out until 2030. If you look at the trend now, getting into the 2nd tax apron is painful and having 2nd rounders at our disposal are assets. We are also projected to have really big cap space next year.

At the grand scheme of things, it really is not bad of an haul. I don’t like the team being too conservative, but I wouldn’t say the management has done a terrible job given that they just blew up the team 2.5 seasons ago.

Obviously the lack of result has been frustrating, but given the short period of time, they’ve done ok.

[VFX]

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

What I get from this is that you are a fan of the teardown (post Vuc-Fournier-Gordon), and have hope in the talent of the players on the roster, especially Paolo and Franz, but you don't have faith that they will be able to.. "stock the cupboard further" or make the right moves that it takes to push it to the next level when the time for it comes. Is that fair to say?

From my perspective, you can't continue to add young guys, assess their talent in a year or two, add more young guys, and expect all the minutes to neatly add up and for things to be as fair as the 5th-6th drafted young guys in year 3 (Black-Jett) versus someone like Franz who was starting day 1. There are going to be logistical problems at some point in drafting and assessing where assessing is a 2, 3, sometimes 4 year thing (Poku with OKC), and the fact that they haven't given contracts.. is what gives me hope that they are taking a lot of things into account and being smart, if not annoyingly patient about it. Time is about up on a few guys.

I hope you're able to see that perspective. I think they will try to get a big fish in the next season - I don't think there's a rush to do anything this offseason, but I do understand the hesitancy because of their history of extensions, non-moves, etc. And they are bound to extend at least one of the guards which is going to piss off at least some of the fanbase.. but I do think they see the need for shooting and dynamic guard skills.

Yes I get the implications for the roster as it currently is set with contracts and youth.

The history of evaluating and not finding those role players sooner is what I’m talking about mainly to stagger the deals. There are many teams that find these guys in other situations. Bol happened to be one of them, but he didn’t work out as an asset for whatever reason.

Sure, we now know for certain the starting Forwards are set. It took them 2 more drafts than necessary to find role players that likely won’t be here in the long run Cole/Okeke and who even knows about Isaac and his value.

In the OKC example, I would be surprised if they didn’t start moving a lot of guys for assets down the road because they are in a similar situation. Presti will not lose that value.

As I’ve said before in other threads, I don’t buy into this idea that Orlando needs a splashy trade for an allstar. It’s not this organizations best interest. On the flip side, I don’t think they can also afford to keep every young player assuming that the asset value doesn’t decrease with handing out larger and larger deals. The market is too big for that and they’ll lose the return.

It’s my biggest issue with these guys. They simply don’t know how to sell high and buy low within an accurate timeframe. Their job is to manage assets and build a real roster capable of competing. In their tenure they’ve done half of one of those things efficiently.

[VFX]

Wow I’m surprised this thread is still going, but I’m enjoying the read.

The indecision is the reason people don’t like the way this FO operates. They take such little risks that it’s always the path of least resistance. Now, some people might say that’s a good thing and I’d argue it’s absolutely not in their position.

Sure, people don’t like kicking the second round picks down the road unless it’s for a Michigan player. Doing it every season with scrubs still on the roster? Not sure that’s a good look to forgo developing internal talent. People can’t praise Miami every season and disregard how Orlando handles those decisions.

The Vuc/Bamba decision has been rehashed a million times. They should have traded him in year 3 after it was clear Vuc was playing the majority of minutes and they botched the pick. Move him for another guy buried on a bench somewhere, as filler in another trade, or an extremely late first.

Fournier and Ross were basically net zero assets by the time they were moved. The indecision on them was bad. The handling of them as assets, comically bad. Bol is just another example of gauging interest in the wrong timeframe. He had probably 1/3 the value during the draft than in February, which is when they were gauging interest. Tbh I doubt many of us would care about Bols return if there weren’t so many other examples of the same thing.

Drafting Okeke is another topic you could go deep on. Far too many “playing the long game” approaches when the team is in rebuild mode now and not stashing assets as a playoff team to remain under cap. Another argument could be made about Isaac, his contract, and where his value is currently.

Trading for Fultz was a risk. I’d argue it didn’t really pay off amazingly. Would you rather have Fultz or Maxey and Thybulle? Considering we just drafted Black I’d say the trade was either a wash or a loss depending on what Fultz becomes as an asset.

The next big question will be the handling of Fultz, Cole, and Black. Do they wait until the last minute on an expiring to trade them? Will they just let them walk despite that being a terrible move for a GM? Do they extend them and then trade? Do they keep them all until the very last minute like Ross and Fournier? History tells us how they handle situations like this.

I will absolutely give them credit on the Vuc deal. They robbed Chicago blind. The AG deal was just OK.

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

Management can do better than what we have right now, sure.

But I don’t think it is as bad as it is being played out to be.

This is the roster the last game before we blew it up

Vuc
Fournier
AG
Chason Randle*
Aminu*
Bacon*
Birch
Okeke
Bamba
MCW*
clark*
mane*
Ross*
Cole anthony
Isaac

Almost half of the team are now out of the NBA

Today our roster stands at
Fultz
Isaac
Okeke
Anthony
Franz
Banchero
Suggs
Houstan
Howard
Black
Ingles
M wagner
G harris
Bitdze
Wcj

I think this is quite a haul given that its been only 2.5 seasons.

I don’t blame Fournier and Ross. They just never had the value. We’ve been, reportedly, dangling them for 1st round picks almost every trade deadline even before their last year in Orlando. We couldn’t get any.

They messed up on picking Okeke and Bamba. So far Weltman have made 10 draft picks. We’ve seen 8 of them picks play already. 2 are unknown (Black and Howard). Out of the 8, 2 are fails (Okeke and Bamba), Isaac is an asterisk (who knew he’d get injured? He was good when healthy). 5 are key part of our rotation. I think getting 6 out of 8 draft picks well is pretty good. Not to mention, we have been set up well with all of our 1st round picks still with us, and 2nd rounders. We have a total of 8 1st round picks and 14 2nd round picks spread out until 2030. If you look at the trend now, getting into the 2nd tax apron is painful and having 2nd rounders at our disposal are assets. We are also projected to have really big cap space next year.

At the grand scheme of things, it really is not bad of an haul. I don’t like the team being too conservative, but I wouldn’t say the management has done a terrible job given that they just blew up the team 2.5 seasons ago.

Obviously the lack of result has been frustrating, but given the short period of time, they’ve done ok.

All things considered they’ve done OK.

This is all fine if you are a market that can attract free agents, stock assets for a big move, and have a terrific track record of developing talent out of thin air. (Basically Miami). Orlando has to do better unfortunately because of how they have to operate. They can’t just be OK with their moves resulting in a B- to C grade every off-season while folding their hands. Basically you nailed it. Too conservative.

I don’t think they’ve done a terrible job. They just don’t take advantage of opportunities that they should.

This guard situation will be extremely telling in my opinion. How they handle it , or don’t, will be how they’ll be judged. It’s been entirely on them too. They’ve painted themselves into this corner because they haven’t made timely decisions. We will see.

[pepe1991]

I love this lists

Vuc- resgigned by them
Fournier
AG- resgiend by them
Chason Randle*- their FA
Aminu*- their FA
Bacon*- their FA
Birch- THEIR FA
Okeke- their draft pick
Bamba- their lottery pick
MCW*- their FA
clark*- their FA
mane*- theri FA
Ross* resigned by them
Cole anthony- drafted by them
Isaac- drafted by them


Whole roster, minus Evan's salary ( that could have easly be moved) was created exclusivley by them.

Orlando Magic blew up Weltman's roster so Weltman can bulid new roster because his previous roster had floor of 45% wins team and ceiling of 51% wins team. In any other situation, such president of basketball operations ,after 4 yeras of constant failures, would be fired. But Wetlman got new chance to start over , because...reasons?! That probably go well beyond basketball ones. Just like drafting Michigan players probably has nothing to do with them being best prospects ( minus Franz i assume)

[fendilim]

I love this lists

Vuc- resgigned by them
Fournier
AG- resgiend by them
Chason Randle*- their FA
Aminu*- their FA
Bacon*- their FA
Birch- THEIR FA
Okeke- their draft pick
Bamba- their lottery pick
MCW*- their FA
clark*- their FA
mane*- theri FA
Ross* resigned by them
Cole anthony- drafted by them
Isaac- drafted by them


Whole roster, minus Evan's salary ( that could have easly be moved) was created exclusivley by them.

Orlando Magic blew up Weltman's roster so Weltman can bulid new roster because his previous roster had floor of 45% wins team and ceiling of 51% wins team. In any other situation, such president of basketball operations ,after 4 yeras of constant failures, would be fired. But Wetlman got new chance to start over , because...reasons?! That probably go well beyond basketball ones. Just like drafting Michigan players probably has nothing to do with them being best prospects ( minus Franz i assume)

It was clear that when they were hired, it was to make the playoffs. And they did, twice. Just listen to their interviews during that time, make the playoffs like how the Raptors did. Weltman keeps talking about how when they were in Toronto, people were telling them to blow it up already. Then suddenly, the move to acquire John Salmons propelled them to the playoffs.

Anyway, the team made the playoffs twice, then they blew it up right after. Its a good timing tbh. We got to sell high on our guys.

You won’t be able to get good value for your players when your team is losing. Bobby Portis talked about this in a podcast with Redick. Teams don’t care about players on losing teams. That’s normal. You won’t be able to sell food when your restaurant has bad reputation. Unless of course you have players that are exceptional.

They made the playoffs, to get the top 3 guys’ peak value, then sold it to the highest bidder.

[pepe1991]

I love this lists

Vuc- resgigned by them
Fournier
AG- resgiend by them
Chason Randle*- their FA
Aminu*- their FA
Bacon*- their FA
Birch- THEIR FA
Okeke- their draft pick
Bamba- their lottery pick
MCW*- their FA
clark*- their FA
mane*- theri FA
Ross* resigned by them
Cole anthony- drafted by them
Isaac- drafted by them


Whole roster, minus Evan's salary ( that could have easly be moved) was created exclusivley by them.

Orlando Magic blew up Weltman's roster so Weltman can bulid new roster because his previous roster had floor of 45% wins team and ceiling of 51% wins team. In any other situation, such president of basketball operations ,after 4 yeras of constant failures, would be fired. But Wetlman got new chance to start over , because...reasons?! That probably go well beyond basketball ones. Just like drafting Michigan players probably has nothing to do with them being best prospects ( minus Franz i assume)

It was clear that when they were hired, it was to make the playoffs. And they did, twice. Just listen to their interviews during that time, make the playoffs like how the Raptors did. Weltman keeps talking about how when they were in Toronto, people were telling them to blow it up already. Then suddenly, the move to acquire John Salmons propelled them to the playoffs.

Anyway, the team made the playoffs twice, then they blew it up right after. Its a good timing tbh. We got to sell high on our guys.

You won’t be able to get good value for your players when your team is losing. Bobby Portis talked about this in a podcast with Redick. Teams don’t care about players on losing teams. That’s normal. You won’t be able to sell food when your restaurant has bad reputation. Unless of course you have players that are exceptional.

They made the playoffs, to get the top 3 guys’ peak value, then sold it to the highest bidder.

This is nonsense.

He was hired by Raptors after 2013-14 , left after 2016-17.

Who blows up roster with this ?



They also went to ECF in 2016.

Raptors to Magic playoffs and team comparison in picture

[Rainwater]

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

What I get from this is that you are a fan of the teardown (post Vuc-Fournier-Gordon), and have hope in the talent of the players on the roster, especially Paolo and Franz, but you don't have faith that they will be able to.. "stock the cupboard further" or make the right moves that it takes to push it to the next level when the time for it comes. Is that fair to say?

From my perspective, you can't continue to add young guys, assess their talent in a year or two, add more young guys, and expect all the minutes to neatly add up and for things to be as fair as the 5th-6th drafted young guys in year 3 (Black-Jett) versus someone like Franz who was starting day 1. There are going to be logistical problems at some point in drafting and assessing where assessing is a 2, 3, sometimes 4 year thing (Poku with OKC), and the fact that they haven't given contracts.. is what gives me hope that they are taking a lot of things into account and being smart, if not annoyingly patient about it. Time is about up on a few guys.

I hope you're able to see that perspective. I think they will try to get a big fish in the next season - I don't think there's a rush to do anything this offseason, but I do understand the hesitancy because of their history of extensions, non-moves, etc. And they are bound to extend at least one of the guards which is going to piss off at least some of the fanbase.. but I do think they see the need for shooting and dynamic guard skills.

I completely agree with this point and have been stressing it for awhile. Even though it has been painstaking, the magic front office are still evaluating and big changes, in terms of trades, will likely be done by the deadline; if not, you risk losing Fultz and Cole for nothing. And in regards to big signings you can see that happening next off-season or the year after due to money coming off the books.

I really do believe due to the lack of success since the the departure of Dwight and previous front office failures have cause fans to become impatient. But I do believe the front office has a plan.

[fendilim]

I love this lists

Vuc- resgigned by them
Fournier
AG- resgiend by them
Chason Randle*- their FA
Aminu*- their FA
Bacon*- their FA
Birch- THEIR FA
Okeke- their draft pick
Bamba- their lottery pick
MCW*- their FA
clark*- their FA
mane*- theri FA
Ross* resigned by them
Cole anthony- drafted by them
Isaac- drafted by them


Whole roster, minus Evan's salary ( that could have easly be moved) was created exclusivley by them.

Orlando Magic blew up Weltman's roster so Weltman can bulid new roster because his previous roster had floor of 45% wins team and ceiling of 51% wins team. In any other situation, such president of basketball operations ,after 4 yeras of constant failures, would be fired. But Wetlman got new chance to start over , because...reasons?! That probably go well beyond basketball ones. Just like drafting Michigan players probably has nothing to do with them being best prospects ( minus Franz i assume)

It was clear that when they were hired, it was to make the playoffs. And they did, twice. Just listen to their interviews during that time, make the playoffs like how the Raptors did. Weltman keeps talking about how when they were in Toronto, people were telling them to blow it up already. Then suddenly, the move to acquire John Salmons propelled them to the playoffs.

Anyway, the team made the playoffs twice, then they blew it up right after. Its a good timing tbh. We got to sell high on our guys.

You won’t be able to get good value for your players when your team is losing. Bobby Portis talked about this in a podcast with Redick. Teams don’t care about players on losing teams. That’s normal. You won’t be able to sell food when your restaurant has bad reputation. Unless of course you have players that are exceptional.

They made the playoffs, to get the top 3 guys’ peak value, then sold it to the highest bidder.

This is nonsense.

He was hired by Raptors after 2013-14 , left after 2016-17.

Who blows up roster with this ?



They also went to ECF in 2016.

Raptors to Magic playoffs and team comparison in picture

Lol pepe

Dont forget the year before the raptors hired weltman and co, they were a trash team.

And everyone were telling them to re-build…

But they didn’t they kept trying.

And suddenly after acquiring salmons, everything clicked for them.

[fendilim]

No GM or FO is perfect. Nobody is asking for perfection. However, posters absolutely have an argument to be made about this FO, their lack of timely decisions, and how they compound over time.

What I get from this is that you are a fan of the teardown (post Vuc-Fournier-Gordon), and have hope in the talent of the players on the roster, especially Paolo and Franz, but you don't have faith that they will be able to.. "stock the cupboard further" or make the right moves that it takes to push it to the next level when the time for it comes. Is that fair to say?

From my perspective, you can't continue to add young guys, assess their talent in a year or two, add more young guys, and expect all the minutes to neatly add up and for things to be as fair as the 5th-6th drafted young guys in year 3 (Black-Jett) versus someone like Franz who was starting day 1. There are going to be logistical problems at some point in drafting and assessing where assessing is a 2, 3, sometimes 4 year thing (Poku with OKC), and the fact that they haven't given contracts.. is what gives me hope that they are taking a lot of things into account and being smart, if not annoyingly patient about it. Time is about up on a few guys.

I hope you're able to see that perspective. I think they will try to get a big fish in the next season - I don't think there's a rush to do anything this offseason, but I do understand the hesitancy because of their history of extensions, non-moves, etc. And they are bound to extend at least one of the guards which is going to piss off at least some of the fanbase.. but I do think they see the need for shooting and dynamic guard skills.

I completely agree with this point and have been stressing it for awhile. Even though it has been painstaking, the magic front office are still evaluating and big changes, in terms of trades, will likely be done by the deadline; if not, you risk losing Fultz and Cole for nothing. And in regards to big signings you can see that happening next off-season or the year after due to money coming off the books.

I really do believe due to the lack of success since the the departure of Dwight and previous front office failures have cause fans to become impatient. But I do believe the front office has a plan.

Honestly, I think the success during the first 25 years, having been to 2 Finals appearance, did spoil us as fans.

Then add the gen Z mindset of being impatient lol

[eyriq]

Weltman comes in, trades Elfrid, fires Vogel, hires Clifford, and improves by 17 wins. He then tries to retool the roster over a few years but after it becomes clear the team is capped he blows it up. You can see the vision they had for that original core, building around Gordan, Vooch, and Fournier with Isaac, Fultz, Bamba, Okeke, and Cole. Injuries limited the potential of that build but the vision was there and the execution was sensible; e.g., surround an offensive all-star in Vooch with defensive talent and an offensive sparkplug.

I give WeHam mad props for their attempt at retooling, but even more impressive is their willingness to bail on the plan when it was clear it wasn't working. They are strong in vision, purpose, and execution which is why I don't buy the lethargic or lazy or sleepy or whatever labels being used against them.

It isn't a coincidence that the only playoff appearances post Dwight have occurred under WeHam's watch. Put some respect on this FO's NAME

[basketballRob]

He had a bunch of mediocre players when he got here, and they had no value. They had to make the playoffs a couple of years to build their value so they could get something for them.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

He had a bunch of mediocre players when he got here, and they had no value. They had to make the playoffs a couple of years to build their value so they could get something for them.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Ross and Fournier had no value when they took over?

AG arguably had more before they offered him an extension.

[pepe1991]

It was clear that when they were hired, it was to make the playoffs. And they did, twice. Just listen to their interviews during that time, make the playoffs like how the Raptors did. Weltman keeps talking about how when they were in Toronto, people were telling them to blow it up already. Then suddenly, the move to acquire John Salmons propelled them to the playoffs.

Anyway, the team made the playoffs twice, then they blew it up right after. Its a good timing tbh. We got to sell high on our guys.

You won’t be able to get good value for your players when your team is losing. Bobby Portis talked about this in a podcast with Redick. Teams don’t care about players on losing teams. That’s normal. You won’t be able to sell food when your restaurant has bad reputation. Unless of course you have players that are exceptional.

They made the playoffs, to get the top 3 guys’ peak value, then sold it to the highest bidder.

This is nonsense.

He was hired by Raptors after 2013-14 , left after 2016-17.

Who blows up roster with this ?



They also went to ECF in 2016.

Raptors to Magic playoffs and team comparison in picture

Lol pepe

Dont forget the year before the raptors hired weltman and co, they were a trash team.

And everyone were telling them to re-build…

But they didn’t they kept trying.

And suddenly after acquiring salmons, everything clicked for them.

You realize they did nothing ?

2012-13 starting 5
Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Johnson
Valenciunas

2013-14 starting 5
Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Johnson
Valenciunas


Than, they traded after 18 games or so, Rudy Gay for John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes . What a trade houl.


But it was addition by substruction as they got rid of one chucker and were only left with one chucker (Derozan) and it turned to be enough to go from 34-48 to 48-34

So yea... your whole argument is BS. Nobody asked Raptors to "blow up" just like Weltman didn't rebuild, retool, nor re-anything Raptors, rather literally traded one player as salary dump as Gay was costing them s*** loud of money.

[pepe1991]

He had a bunch of mediocre players when he got here, and they had no value. They had to make the playoffs a couple of years to build their value so they could get something for them.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Let's say they had no value. how is argument for them fact that they "valuelesss assets" got 4 years exstensions by them on quadrupled salary? It literally makes no sense whatsover like most of "pro- Weltman" comments here.

People are just desparate to praise him for something, but because 2017-2021 happened they don't have much to grab to hold.

btw to this point we got one creamy stinki pile of **** for Gordon.

draft prospect who is out of nba
injury prone vet who we could add in free agency
2025 pick that looks like 25-30 lock

And that's like Weltman's second best trade , out of 4 he made

[The-Stallion70]

Weltman comes in, trades Elfrid, fires Vogel, hires Clifford, and improves by 17 wins. He then tries to retool the roster over a few years but after it becomes clear the team is capped he blows it up. You can see the vision they had for that original core, building around Gordan, Vooch, and Fournier with Isaac, Fultz, Bamba, Okeke, and Cole. Injuries limited the potential of that build but the vision was there and the execution was sensible; e.g., surround an offensive all-star in Vooch with defensive talent and an offensive sparkplug.

I give WeHam mad props for their attempt at retooling, but even more impressive is their willingness to bail on the plan when it was clear it wasn't working. They are strong in vision, purpose, and execution which is why I don't buy the lethargic or lazy or sleepy or whatever labels being used against them.

It isn't a coincidence that the only playoff appearances post Dwight have occurred under WeHam's watch. Put some respect on this FO's NAME

Agreed but,

I still sort believe in the conspiracy theory that Devos wanted to field a bad team purposely to recover financially after spending all the money during the Dwight years. Probably also to purposely stay out of the spotlight as well.

I don't see how our immediate rebuild failed quite as horribly as it did. We literally gave away Tobias for expiring contracts and gave away Oladipo, Oladipo the guy who gave us the best future chance at competing, for Ibaka a high level role player.

I'm not sure Hennigan could have been quite that bad at his job I think alot of these moves are downright eerie.

[fendilim]

This is nonsense.

He was hired by Raptors after 2013-14 , left after 2016-17.

Who blows up roster with this ?



They also went to ECF in 2016.

Raptors to Magic playoffs and team comparison in picture

Lol pepe

Dont forget the year before the raptors hired weltman and co, they were a trash team.

And everyone were telling them to re-build…

But they didn’t they kept trying.

And suddenly after acquiring salmons, everything clicked for them.

You realize they did nothing ?

2012-13 starting 5
Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Johnson
Valenciunas

2013-14 starting 5
Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Johnson
Valenciunas


Than, they traded after 18 games or so, Rudy Gay for John Salmons, Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes . What a trade houl.


But it was addition by substruction as they got rid of one chucker and were only left with one chucker (Derozan) and it turned to be enough to go from 34-48 to 48-34

So yea... your whole argument is BS. Nobody asked Raptors to "blow up" just like Weltman didn't rebuild, retool, nor re-anything Raptors, rather literally traded one player as salary dump as Gay was costing them s*** loud of money.

They really did nothing prior to the years before they made the playoffs. That was under colangelo.

Then the raptors hired masai and weltman. And this happened. Like i said the switch flipped after the salmons trade.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2013/10/30/5048138/raptors-rebuild-andrew-wiggins

Under new leadership, the Toronto Raptors will begin their 2013-14 season on Wednesday night with the hopes of making the playoffs. But underneath it all, an inside source of The Toronto Star believes new general manager Masai Ujiri and his staff have put a 45-day deadline on the team, after which they could blow up the roster to start anew.

[drsd]

Raptors to Magic playoffs and team comparison in picture

Never judge the book by its cover and all that!

(( this is a "must watch" from the 56 second mark ))

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