RealGM 2023 Top 100 Project - General Thread

[Doctor MJ]

I know I am late to the party, but I'd like to become a voter.

Add me to the voters list. I already let Bill Russell down.

I would like to be added to the voters list. The new rules are interesting and I'll do my best to properly comply (but as an old guy, screw ups on my part are likely!).

Missed you guys before - I'm sorry about that. Consider yourselves added to the voter pool.

[ceiling raiser]

From a cursory glance, Jordan might have dropped out of the top 3? Seismic shift.

Conversation looks terrific though so far.

[rk2023]

Kind of under the assumption Jordan and Russell round out the top 4 in this years’ voting yet again (which I fully agree with). Thinking into the future, how would some of you rank Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan? That’s probably the tier I struggle with the most by far in my top 20.

[One_and_Done]

Duncan clear 1st in that group.

[70sFan]

Duncan clear 1st in that group.

It's far from clear and that's coming from the biggest fan on this board that actually ranks him the highest in that group.

[penbeast0]

Kind of under the assumption Jordan and Russell round out the top 4 in this years’ voting yet again (which I fully agree with). Thinking into the future, how would some of you rank Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan? That’s probably the tier I struggle with the most by far in my top 20.

I have Wilt above Kareem as my #4. Part of that is due to my lesser emphasis on meaningful longevity than most. Part is due to personality/leadership which plays a part in my analysis which may be influenced by my time as a HS coach. Part is due to having watched them both, looking at evidence, and believing that prime Wilt would be more impactful head to head, both individually and in terms of team impact (particularly on the defensive end of the floor). Duncan as #6 competing with Magic for that spot, again, mainly on my belief in his superior personality/leadership as I remember Hakeem's complaining and Shaq's slamming his former teams every time he left a city plus his tendency to clown. Willing to listen to Curry arguments starting around #6 as well; not sure how he is going to rank for me.

[ShaqAttac]

Duncan clear 1st in that group.

It's far from clear and that's coming from the biggest fan on this board that actually ranks him the highest in that group.

how do ya rank them

[DraymondGold]

.

Hi Doctor MJ, thanks for your leadership with this project! It's a bit late and I'm not sure if I'll be able to participate all the time, but I'd love to be part of the voting body (particularly to vote in some of the tiers I find most interesting, such as the one coming up after Russell). Thanks again!

[70sFan]

Duncan clear 1st in that group.

It's far from clear and that's coming from the biggest fan on this board that actually ranks him the highest in that group.

how do ya rank them

Probably:

Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt
Shaq

It's not a definitive order though.

[iggymcfrack]

Kind of under the assumption Jordan and Russell round out the top 4 in this years’ voting yet again (which I fully agree with). Thinking into the future, how would some of you rank Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan? That’s probably the tier I struggle with the most by far in my top 20.

I have Wilt above Kareem as my #4. Part of that is due to my lesser emphasis on meaningful longevity than most. Part is due to personality/leadership which plays a part in my analysis which may be influenced by my time as a HS coach. Part is due to having watched them both, looking at evidence, and believing that prime Wilt would be more impactful head to head, both individually and in terms of team impact (particularly on the defensive end of the floor). Duncan as #6 competing with Magic for that spot, again, mainly on my belief in his superior personality/leadership as I remember Hakeem's complaining and Shaq's slamming his former teams every time he left a city plus his tendency to clown. Willing to listen to Curry arguments starting around #6 as well; not sure how he is going to rank for me.

How on earth does Wilt get points for personality and leadership over Kareem? He probably focused on stats over team more than any player in history, demanded two trades in 3.5 years including one from a winning team, and had the biggest gulf between individual stats and winning of any player in history.

[penbeast0]

And Kareem was one of the most withdrawn stars in league history. He basically shut out his own locker room after 73 according to his own book and only started treating it as a team game when Magic broke through his barriers several years later. But we can agree to disagree on this, particularly since Kareem is already in. There isn't another player I can think of that I have locker room issues with coming up until Barkley.

[Doctor MJ]

.

Hi Doctor MJ, thanks for your leadership with this project! It's a bit late and I'm not sure if I'll be able to participate all the time, but I'd love to be part of the voting body (particularly to vote in some of the tiers I find most interesting, such as the one coming up after Russell). Thanks again!

I'll add you for the next one. Glad to have you DGold!

Make sure you're aware of the guidelines I've said in the OPs, and you look to keep nice and respectful!

[ty 4191]

Just curious:

Who are people's next 4 #1 votes?

[OhayoKD]

Just curious:

Who are people's next 4 #1 votes?

As of now(open to change)

Duncan
Hakeem
KG or Wilt

[Joao Saraiva]

I would like to vote please.

[ty 4191]

Just curious:

Who are people's next 4 #1 votes?

As of now(open to change)

Duncan
Hakeem
KG or Wilt

I'm curious how you (and, other fellow "taxonomists" here) rank players from pre 1997, without on/off plus minus or other advanced data.

(Seems like about 90% of the headspace and content of this ongoing debate seems to be a never-ending discussion about the merits and application of many, many different "advanced metrics".)

[OhayoKD]

Just curious:

Who are people's next 4 #1 votes?

As of now(open to change)

Duncan
Hakeem
KG or Wilt

I'm curious how (and, other taxonomists here) rank players from pre 1997, without on/off plus minus or other advanced data.

(Seems like about 90% of the headspace and content of this ongoing debate seems to be a never-ending discussion about the merits and application of many, many different "advanced metrics".)

My post here more or less explains my own methodology/approach:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=107462472#p107462472

[ty 4191]

Missed you guys before - I'm sorry about that. Consider yourselves added to the voter pool.

Hi Doctor MJ,
Are we allowed to discuss league depth/league quality here across eras? I don't want to derail the thread, but, I think it certainly bears looking at, as hard and as nuanced as is possible.

Thanks.

[ty 4191]

Since Dr. MJ didn't respond, let's open this up to discussion.

It's my current belief that the 1970's was a weak decade, comparatively. You had the ABA with ~25% of the best players in the NBA by the mid 70's, and, the league expanding from 9 teams in 65'-66'' to 22 in 76'-77'. There's just no way, that I can envision, that basketball expanded as much in popularity, scope, player development and recruitment in 12 years to keep up with that kind of drastic expansion.'

Here's how expansion teams fared their first 5 season in the league:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KfFmPYlS0Mx00w0hri6LoGASkES3DWfBY25Q8vhHWoA/edit#gid=0

What are people's thoughts on the topic of expansion and league depth/quality?

[One_and_Done]

There's a whole thread that was done on criteria before the project started, maybe you should debate it there? Era discussion was heavily featured in it.