Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[Los_29]

For their young timeline Scottie is the best fit. Jalen Brown comes close to the right timeline, but is a bit too old for it to make sense I think.

The Raptors are not investing all their time with Barnes this offseason to turn around and trade him for a 33 year old. If also makes zero sense to bring in all the development coaches they brought in. They're not trading Dame for Barnes. Masai is smart enough to know that is not a championship contender

lol does he know that? His actions are clearly signaling that he thinks the opposite.
why did he throw away a first round pick for poeltl? Why did he refuse to sell high on the vets?

I'm lower on Scottie than most but i would do this trade if the intention is to keep this core (siakam, og, poeltl). At least Dame is a good fit with those guys.

Trading Fred for Luke Kennard wouldn't have helped this team now or in the future. Trying to make your team better doesn't mean they think they can win the championship. LOL.

[ArthurVandelay]

Is there a difference between:

A player demanding to be traded to just one team and making it known he’d be unhappy anywhere else thereby lowering trade value

Versus

A player lowering their trade value by making it known he would refuse to sign an extension with any new team

???

Massive difference!

Scenario 1 is a guy who has a made a commitment and is requesting to break that commitment, but will only accept one resolution that is only helpful to himself.

Scenario 2 is a guy who will accept being put in a completely different situation but is simply saying that he is not prepared to commit to this unknown long term.

The first is basically like your wife telling you she wants out of the marriage, but wants the kids, the house, the cars… and you should accept whatever she is willing to let you have.
You want to find a win-win situation but she only wants it her way whether you like it or not.

The second is like you have a longtime girlfriend and your relationship is struggling. You think buying a home together will fix your problems but she doesn’t want to make that commitment given how precarious things are between you.
She tells you to buy a home if you want, but she is not ready to co-sign on the mortgage.

Thanks for your insights…sincerely.

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

[Los_29]

Is there a difference between:

A player demanding to be traded to just one team and making it known he’d be unhappy anywhere else thereby lowering trade value

Versus

A player lowering their trade value by making it known he would refuse to sign an extension with any new team

???

Massive difference!

Scenario 1 is a guy who has a made a commitment and is requesting to break that commitment, but will only accept one resolution that is only helpful to himself.

Scenario 2 is a guy who will accept being put in a completely different situation but is simply saying that he is not prepared to commit to this unknown long term.

The first is basically like your wife telling you she wants out of the marriage, but wants the kids, the house, the cars… and you should accept whatever she is willing to let you have.
You want to find a win-win situation but she only wants it her way whether you like it or not.

The second is like you have a longtime girlfriend and your relationship is struggling. You think buying a home together will fix your problems but she doesn’t want to make that commitment given how precarious things are between you.
She tells you to buy a home if you want, but she is not ready to co-sign on the mortgage.

Thanks for your insights…sincerely.

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Isn't the whole thing with Siakam is that he refuses to commit to the team that trades for him? I don't see what the problem is with that. Why would anyone commit to a place and organization they have never played in and are unfamiliar with? That's actually not unusual. It's quite common.

Dame's situation is far worse and has completely damaged his reputation in my opinion. The guy was never loyal to the Blazers, just the money that they were paying him. LOL.

[ArthurVandelay]

Massive difference!

Scenario 1 is a guy who has a made a commitment and is requesting to break that commitment, but will only accept one resolution that is only helpful to himself.

Scenario 2 is a guy who will accept being put in a completely different situation but is simply saying that he is not prepared to commit to this unknown long term.

The first is basically like your wife telling you she wants out of the marriage, but wants the kids, the house, the cars… and you should accept whatever she is willing to let you have.
You want to find a win-win situation but she only wants it her way whether you like it or not.

The second is like you have a longtime girlfriend and your relationship is struggling. You think buying a home together will fix your problems but she doesn’t want to make that commitment given how precarious things are between you.
She tells you to buy a home if you want, but she is not ready to co-sign on the mortgage.

Thanks for your insights…sincerely.

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Isn't the whole thing with Siakam is that he refuses to commit to the team that trades for him? I don't see what the problem is with that. Why would anyone commit to a place and organization they have never played in and are unfamiliar with? That's actually not unusual. It's quite common.

Dame's situation is far worse and has completely damaged his reputation in my opinion. The guy was never loyal to the Blazers, just the money that they were paying him. LOL.

Leaking the information he won’t sign anywhere undermines the team and the FO.

That is a conversation that could be had privately.

Siakam could also provide teams where he would resign, and who knows, maybe he has. But to say he won’t resign with anyone is hurting the team get maximum value for him as a player.

I don’t like the situation because this isn’t about living on Toronto or wanting to stay forever, I truly believe it’s all about trying to secure a supermax which will turn into another Beal situation leading into the 2024-2025 season.

[Raps Next GM]

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you and cost you a chance at $100 million?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

[will]

Thanks for your insights…sincerely.

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Isn't the whole thing with Siakam is that he refuses to commit to the team that trades for him? I don't see what the problem is with that. Why would anyone commit to a place and organization they have never played in and are unfamiliar with? That's actually not unusual. It's quite common.

Dame's situation is far worse and has completely damaged his reputation in my opinion. The guy was never loyal to the Blazers, just the money that they were paying him. LOL.

Leaking the information he won’t sign anywhere undermines the team and the FO.

That is a conversation that could be had privately.

Siakam could also provide teams where he would resign, and who knows, maybe he has. But to say he won’t resign with anyone is hurting the team get maximum value for him as a player.

I don’t like the situation because this isn’t about living on Toronto or wanting to stay forever, I truly believe it’s all about trying to secure a supermax which will turn into another Beal situation leading into the 2024-2025 season.

Don't buy it to begin with!

[2019nbachamps]

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you and cost you a chance at $100 million?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

Pretty sure if we trade him now the next team he’s on would have his bird rights and could give him the supermax if he made all NBA.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Portland's ask is insane btw. Two quality players and four firsts....for a 33year old making that type of money.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081923-damian-lillard-trade-rumors-blazers-want-4-1sts-2-quality-players-amid-heat-buzz

[mihaic]

Leaking the information he won’t sign anywhere undermines the team and the FO.

That is a conversation that could be had privately.

You are looking at this from the point of view of Raptors org and fans only.

If you were Siakam, for sure it's likely that:
A. You want a chance at one extra contract year
B. You may also prefer not changing the team
C. You may resort to do what he did because after all your name came out in rumours

It's also possible he had the conversation privately, that he wants to stay for another year, but the FO still engaged in trade talks as they should. Hence the rumours which led to his statement.

I see nothing wrong from both sides, Raps and Siak.

[Raps Next GM]

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you and cost you a chance at $100 million?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

Pretty sure if we trade him now the next team he’s on would have his bird rights and could give him the supermax if he made all NBA.

I won’t pretend to know enough about this but the Supermx rule stipulates that it can be offered by the team that drafted him or acquired his rookie contract via trade.

Given he is not on his rookie deal, I would presume that he is not eligible if traded.
Plus everything I have heard and read is that he doesn’t want to be traded so that he can potentially qualify for the supermax. If he still can, then why would there be any discussion at all of his motivations for wanting to remain in Toronto? Why would the supermax even be discussed?

[Raps Next GM]

Portland's ask is insane btw. Two quality players and four firsts....for a 33year old making that type of money.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081923-damian-lillard-trade-rumors-blazers-want-4-1sts-2-quality-players-amid-heat-buzz

That may be a tax on the Miami Heat and Lillard.


They’re trying to extort the Blazers, so I don’t blame Portland at all for wanting everything they can get from Miami.
If Lillard opens up his potential destinations, the price will likely drop to something more reasonable.

There’s a price for the Heat, and there’s a price for everyone else.

[KL78192020]

Portland's ask is insane btw. Two quality players and four firsts....for a 33year old making that type of money.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081923-damian-lillard-trade-rumors-blazers-want-4-1sts-2-quality-players-amid-heat-buzz

It depends on the definition of quality players, Herro and Martin could be called quality players. Heat could also trade their two former first round picks in Jaime Jaquez and Jovic and 2 future picks.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Portland's ask is insane btw. Two quality players and four firsts....for a 33year old making that type of money.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081923-damian-lillard-trade-rumors-blazers-want-4-1sts-2-quality-players-amid-heat-buzz

That ask may be a tax on the Miami Heat and Lillard. They’re trying to extort the Blazers, so I don’t blame them at all for wanting everything they can get from Miami.
If Lillard opens up his potential destinations, the price will likely drop.

He's going to be making $63M in 2027.

[mihaic]

Also: by not getting an extension Pascal takes the risk of having an injury which may tank his value hence tank his salary in the next offseason

[Raps Next GM]

Portland's ask is insane btw. Two quality players and four firsts....for a 33year old making that type of money.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081923-damian-lillard-trade-rumors-blazers-want-4-1sts-2-quality-players-amid-heat-buzz

That ask may be a tax on the Miami Heat and Lillard. They’re trying to extort the Blazers, so I don’t blame them at all for wanting everything they can get from Miami.
If Lillard opens up his potential destinations, the price will likely drop.

He's going to be making $63M in 2027.

Okay. And?

I’m not trying to be a dick, I just don’t understand the relevance of that

[mihaic]

That ask may be a tax on the Miami Heat and Lillard. They’re trying to extort the Blazers, so I don’t blame them at all for wanting everything they can get from Miami.
If Lillard opens up his potential destinations, the price will likely drop.

He's going to be making $63M in 2027.

Okay. And?

I’m not trying to be a dick, I just don’t understand the relevance of that

Lillard 's game might decline by then. It's like having Chris Paul at 50mil now.

Edit: I think this means his value should be less, due to age.

But I agree, this is Portland putting pressure to open trade possibilities with others and increase the return

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

That ask may be a tax on the Miami Heat and Lillard. They’re trying to extort the Blazers, so I don’t blame them at all for wanting everything they can get from Miami.
If Lillard opens up his potential destinations, the price will likely drop.

He's going to be making $63M in 2027.

Okay. And?

I’m not trying to be a dick, I just don’t understand the relevance of that

Most undersized guards don't make it past 35, he'll be 37 making 63M. His cost is going up, as production drops.

[ArthurVandelay]

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

The job of the Raptors is to do what is in the franchises best interests. A supermax for him isn’t that. Moving on from Siakam is also what I feel is in the best interest for the franchise and my issue is he’s actively lowering his trade value to the detriment of the team and fans.

Does Siakam care? Probably not. But my point is this is about money and at the end of the day he wants to get as much as possible AND choose where he plays. He wants BOTH options and he’s squeezing the Raptors to make it happen.

If the supermax is off the table and he wants to get the 5-year regular max, he needs to honour his contract and go to a team willing to give up the assets to get his Bird Rights.

If he wants to pick his next team, well he can sacrifice an extra year and $60+m. I’d respect him for making this sacrifice to get to where he wants to be.m and that would be his right as an UFA.

Now I’m not in Siakam’s head or inner circle, I don’t know what he wants. But my issue is it seems he wants maximum money and control over where he plays and that is hurting the Raptors.



So now flip to Portland. They are doing what they feel is in their best interests, building around youth, after Dame has spent numerous losing seasons wanting to contend in Portland. They have told him we want to build around you but their actions clearly showed that was not the case. He finally has enough and asks out because it’s clear the Blazers want to get rid of him, they just don’t want to take the blame for trading arguably best Blazer ever.

Does Dame care about undermining his value so they can get rid of him? No. Is it right? No, but I have sympathy for him.

The reason why I have sympathy for Dame is the Blazers should have just put on the big boy pants and traded him as soon as it became clear Scoot was their new PG and they didn’t want to sacrifice the assets necessary to build around Dame.

[2019nbachamps]

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you and cost you a chance at $100 million?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.



Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

Pretty sure if we trade him now the next team he’s on would have his bird rights and could give him the supermax if he made all NBA.

I won’t pretend to know enough about this but the Supermx rule stipulates that it can be offered by the team that drafted him or acquired his rookie contract via trade.

Given he is not on his rookie deal, I would presume that he is not eligible if traded.
Plus everything I have heard and read is that he doesn’t want to be traded so that he can potentially qualify for the supermax. If he still can, then why would there be any discussion at all of his motivations for wanting to remain in Toronto? Why would the supermax even be discussed?

You’re right, didn’t know that.

Next question for Pascal is will the Raptors give him a super max? Given only top tier superstars have it, don’t think Pascal can reasonably expect it.

[islandboy53]

Only thing I’d point out is both Lillard and Siakam’s actions have undermined their respective teams. Definitely a debate to be had about to what extent.

So flip that around: Siakam can’t sign a supermax with another team, only the Raptors. So the Raptors trading him undermines him to the tune of an extra year on his next contract AND $100 million!
If you were in Siakam’s position, would you care about how you’re undermining the Raptors value…so that they can get rid of you and cost you a chance at $100 million?

If he could still get the supermax elsewhere then I would agree completely but we can’t expect him to play nice when it’s going to potentially cost him nine figures and the only reason they want to move him is so that they don’t have to pay him that money.

Your analogy made me think of the old joke:

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they’re worth it! Lol

Haha! Based on my morning interaction with the wife, perhaps I should consider that investment.

Pretty sure if we trade him now the next team he’s on would have his bird rights and could give him the supermax if he made all NBA.

Per CBAFAQ.com, the designated veteran extension, commonly referred to as the supermax, is only available to players with "7 or 8 years of service when extension signed; 1 or 2 years remaining on contract; with same team continuously (unless traded during first four years in the league)". Siakam would not be eligible for a supermax if he's traded this year.