Russia-Ukraine War Part 2

[Jalen Bluntson]

Bot

WhataBotism

Spreading Botulism

FuggetaBOTit

[HopelessKnick]

If someone is making an argument that you disagree with, you bring counter arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Reinforcing failure

[Clyde_Style]

Ummm... riveting stuff here.

So's your face!

Careful, U Make Bot Mad

I know you are but what am I?

[Clyde_Style]

WhataBotism

Spreading Botulism

FuggetaBOTit

[Clyde_Style]

If someone is making an argument that you disagree with, you bring counter arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Reinforcing failure

[Clyde_Style]

[fleet]

Slava Ukraini

Heroyam Slava!

[HopelessKnick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Reinforcing failure

PMS syndrome pretty strong for you today?

Damn I kinda pity you, the war really took a mental toll on you.

[Clyde_Style]

Bot Desperate

[HopelessKnick]

Damn what a day in Germany.....more and more german generals and even most hard line pro-weapon delivery politicians clearly condemning U.S. deliveries of cluster munition. Some even calling it shocking and despicable. More and more voices starting to be heard and rising in Germany to distance themselves from the USA after the war. What I have been calling for ever since the Iraq war may come to fruition. It was long overdue. Took our leadership a while, but this decision seemingly opened some people's eyes.

[HarthorneWingo]

The U.S. post 9/11 wars "on terror" (which in itself were among the most terroristic thing the world has seen post world war 2) caused the death of 4.5 million people (direct and indirect), displaced 38-60 million people:

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/05/18/us-911-wars-million-deaths-displace/

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I was responding to Mr. drewkins, who seemed to imply in one of his posts that it was Belarussia and Russia who are mainly responsible for the european migration crisis.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no supporter of Russia at all. Many things they have done I completely disagree with. The only deception here is to believe that the U.S. is much different or different at all. I think in the U.S., due to mainstream media propaganda and manipulation it may seem so---like "we are the good guys and these others are evil"---it's just that, a deception. If you go outside the U.S. the picture emerging among the people is much different.

And all I've posted here is coming from someone that used to be a big USA fan. I was like a USA fanboy, cheering for everything USA related and shutting down any criticism towards the USA. Always looking for ways to rationalize US actions.....but a couple decades later you just come to terms with the fact that you've been lied to and deceived the whole time. Yes western countries have, generally speaking, been ok/good for their own citizens. But when it comes to foreign policies, there is no country in recent history being more brutal, merciless and ruthless than the USA.

Just think about the above article----4.5 million dead, direct and indirect, due to US lawlessness and criminal activity in the muslim world (in this case)....and here in the west they are selling you still the propaganda: These muslim evil guys dislike us because we are living in freedom and our woman can dress as they like (and you have a majority of people believing in that). It certainly has nothing to do with killing them in the millions and displacing them in the tens of millions.

Well, Israel told us to. So we had no choice.

I agree with your comment above. I was thinking of moving to Europe but not so sure now. It’s very stressful living here.

[fleet]

Damn what a day in Germany.....more and more german generals and even most hard line pro-weapon delivery politicians clearly condemning U.S. deliveries of cluster munition. Some even calling it shocking and despicable. More and more voices starting to be heard and rising in Germany to distance themselves from the USA after the war. What I have been calling for ever since the Iraq war may come to fruition. It was long overdue. Took our leadership a while, but this decision seemingly opened some people's eyes.

There is literally no ordinance that can be used which does not result in a dangerous dud factor. The “political theatre” of the outrage is described well in the following video about 6:40.

Watch on YouTube

[HopelessKnick]

Damn what a day in Germany.....more and more german generals and even most hard line pro-weapon delivery politicians clearly condemning U.S. deliveries of cluster munition. Some even calling it shocking and despicable. More and more voices starting to be heard and rising in Germany to distance themselves from the USA after the war. What I have been calling for ever since the Iraq war may come to fruition. It was long overdue. Took our leadership a while, but this decision seemingly opened some people's eyes.

There is literally no ordinance that can be used which does not result in a dangerous dud factor. The “political theatre” of the outrage is described well in the following video about 6:40.

Watch on YouTube

I don't really understand what he is getting at. It is his opinion that all this outrage is overblown. But, at least here in Germany, even some of the staunchest pro weapon delivery politicians have voiced their disapproval and more and more voices have emerged now to completely reconsider our position in regards to the US after the war.
And then his whole analysis seems to not factor in that if the ukrainians use those munitions in vast quantities (which btw they have been using anyways already---both sides have been using them to some extent) the russians will use them in even bigger quantities. There is no rational argument as to why this should work in favor of the attacking force on open terrain. In fortified positions you have a much better chance of surviving these bombs---on open terrain it is literally a death sentence. How are you even going to advance if the enemy has x-fold the quantities of that? This is from human rights watch:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/07/06/ukraine-civilian-deaths-cluster-munitions

[HopelessKnick]

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I was responding to Mr. drewkins, who seemed to imply in one of his posts that it was Belarussia and Russia who are mainly responsible for the european migration crisis.

Don't get me wrong. I'm no supporter of Russia at all. Many things they have done I completely disagree with. The only deception here is to believe that the U.S. is much different or different at all. I think in the U.S., due to mainstream media propaganda and manipulation it may seem so---like "we are the good guys and these others are evil"---it's just that, a deception. If you go outside the U.S. the picture emerging among the people is much different.

And all I've posted here is coming from someone that used to be a big USA fan. I was like a USA fanboy, cheering for everything USA related and shutting down any criticism towards the USA. Always looking for ways to rationalize US actions.....but a couple decades later you just come to terms with the fact that you've been lied to and deceived the whole time. Yes western countries have, generally speaking, been ok/good for their own citizens. But when it comes to foreign policies, there is no country in recent history being more brutal, merciless and ruthless than the USA.

Just think about the above article----4.5 million dead, direct and indirect, due to US lawlessness and criminal activity in the muslim world (in this case)....and here in the west they are selling you still the propaganda: These muslim evil guys dislike us because we are living in freedom and our woman can dress as they like (and you have a majority of people believing in that). It certainly has nothing to do with killing them in the millions and displacing them in the tens of millions.

Well, Israel told us to. So we had no choice.

I agree with your comment above. I was thinking of moving to Europe but not so sure now. It’s very stressful living here.

Very unfortunate but very true. I didn't want to get into that topic---especially given germany's shameful history---but again here it is astonishing that the U.S. is supporting exactly the type of action (a country with a stronger military occupying territories which according to international law have been awarded to other people) for 50 years now that the entire west is condemning russia for. Occupying someone other's territory by brute force and violence. But I guess since the victims here are muslims, no one cares. This Remarkable hypocrisy. I guess A.I.P.A.C. is indeed surpremely powerful.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's pretty obvious that the US is being recognized as hypocrites globally. We have used our military to further the interests of GLOBAL corporations under the guise of freedom and democracy. Imperialism/terrorism/capitalism jismschismism the rich get rich and the poor get exploited and lied to. Murdered even. The planet gets destroyed as well. All for money and power for just a few.

Pick a side. It's all the same game. The US on the world stage is definitely losing shine. Has been for a while.

[drekwins]

The U.S. post 9/11 wars "on terror" (which in itself were among the most terroristic thing the world has seen post world war 2) caused the death of 4.5 million people (direct and indirect), displaced 38-60 million people:

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/05/18/us-911-wars-million-deaths-displace/

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I love how when I brought up the migrant crisis, his response was, "that has nothing to do with this"... when that literally preceded this war by only months. Then, he immediately brings up something that happened two decades ago and has NOTHING to do with this conflict whatsoever.

Worse, they're arguing about how terrible Americas invasion of Iraq was, while at the same time, using it as justification for what they are doing now lol How does that make sense? You can't say it was so terrible and wrong, but then use it as a moral equivalent for your current actions. That is madness.

This is all predictable, as Russians apologists and shills love to do, they continually live in the past. They will frequently bring up events from 20 years ago... Russians love to re-write ancient history. They even cite the World Wars quite often. No one in America lives with that time-frame in mind. No one is re-litigating WW1 or WW2 in America. No one even thinks about it. It was several generations ago. We do not care. That time has come and passed.

These shills just love to talk in circles. It's asinine.

[Clyde_Style]

The U.S. post 9/11 wars "on terror" (which in itself were among the most terroristic thing the world has seen post world war 2) caused the death of 4.5 million people (direct and indirect), displaced 38-60 million people:

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/05/18/us-911-wars-million-deaths-displace/

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I love how when I brought up the migrant crisis, his response was, "that has nothing to do with this"... when that literally preceded this war by only months. Then, he immediately brings up something that happened two decades ago and has NOTHING to do with this conflict whatsoever.

Worse, they're arguing about how terrible Americas invasion of Iraq was, while at the same time, using it as justification for what they are doing now lol How does that make sense? You can't say it was so terrible and wrong, but then use it as a moral equivalent for your current actions. That is madness.

This is all predictable, as Russians apologists and shills love to do, they continually live in the past. They will frequently bring up events from 20 years ago... Russians love to re-write ancient history. They even cite the World Wars quite often. No one in America lives with that time-frame in mind. No one is re-litigating WW1 or WW2 in America. No one even thinks about it. It was several generations ago. We do not care. That time has come and passed.

These shills just love to talk in circles. It's asinine.

Bots Be Shillin

[HopelessKnick]

The U.S. post 9/11 wars "on terror" (which in itself were among the most terroristic thing the world has seen post world war 2) caused the death of 4.5 million people (direct and indirect), displaced 38-60 million people:

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/05/18/us-911-wars-million-deaths-displace/

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I love how when I brought up the migrant crisis, his response was, "that has nothing to do with this"... when that literally preceded this war by only months. Then, he immediately brings up something that happened two decades ago and has NOTHING to do with this conflict whatsoever.

Worse, they're arguing about how terrible Americas invasion of Iraq was, while at the same time, using it as justification for what they are doing now lol How does that make sense? You can't say it was so terrible and wrong, but then use it as a moral equivalent for your current actions. That is madness.

This is all predictable, as Russians apologists and shills love to do, they continually live in the past. They will frequently bring up events from 20 years ago... Russians love to re-write ancient history. They even cite the World Wars quite often. No one in America lives with that time-frame in mind. No one is re-litigating WW1 or WW2 in America. No one even thinks about it. It was several generations ago. We do not care. That time has come and passed.

These shills just love to talk in circles. It's asinine.

I didn't want to go into detail but you make it somewhat necessary. Your entire post reeks of ignorance-it just literally shows that you have absolutely ZERO clue at the origins of the migrant crisis, what caused it, how it came about etc.--anyone that followed the middle east and european policy during the past 20 years will simply scoff at the notion that the belarussian--Poland border migrant crisis had anything to do with the outbreak of the Russia-Ukraine war. In fact they will think you have gone completely crazy if you state something like that. Don't take my word for it---read up on the causes. It is so mind-boggling to be reading something like that.

When the syrian migrant crisis broke out (2015), Erdogan used it as a means of getting concessions from the EU countries, a la "you give me this and that, and if not I'll be sending all these waves of syrian refugees to europe" ---at that point Turkey had sheltered millions of syrian refugees. The EU caved, as they didn't want to be faced with millions of additional refugees so they literally paid Erdogan to keep the refugees in Turkey.

In August 2020 there were presidential elections in Belarus. Lukashenko allegedly won with 80% of the votes. The legitimacy of the vote was questioned, protests erupted and Lukashenko squashed them, using many means of violence. The EU put sanctions on Lukashenko and Belarus in September 2020. Trying to get off of these sanctions and blackmailing the EU, he used the Erdogan situation as a role model to put pressure on the EU countries in trying to create another migrant crisis. The belarussians, used travel agencies and enticed IRAQIS and AFGHANS (that's why I brought up the wars of 20 years ago because their effects are still massive in those countries and people willingly jumped for these sarcastic offers) as well as lebanese people and people from Jordan with unrestricted tourist visas. He accumulated refugees and flew them in and tried to unload them at the polish border to create a crisis there to put pressure on the EU and get off of the sanctions. Poland closed the border and built strong fences and sent the police/military---in the cold winter months many migrants freezed to death. The EU didn't cave, they took some of the refugees and the majority, which stemmed from IRAQ, were flown back. This was that story in a nutshell.

Now instead of posting that nonsense you just posted, you could have taken the time and educated yourself on the origin and course of that crisis instead of just repeating the same nonsense. You know repeating nonsense does not make it true.The absolutely stupid, ignorant and asinine nature of such a comment only reveals your utter ignorance and laziness in refusing to take a little time to actually research the crisis. You made yourself only look like a complete fool. Anyone that wants to know the origins of that crisis can read it online. No source will even hint at it having anything to do with the Russia-Ukraine war.

[HopelessKnick]

It's pretty obvious that the US is being recognized as hypocrites globally. We have used our military to further the interests of GLOBAL corporations under the guise of freedom and democracy. Imperialism/terrorism/capitalism jismschismism the rich get rich and the poor get exploited and lied to. Murdered even. The planet gets destroyed as well. All for money and power for just a few.

Pick a side. It's all the same game. The US on the world stage is definitely losing shine. Has been for a while.

Spot on. Actually in some regards the current situation is pretty revealing of that. Had the entirety of the world supported U.S. demands in following and applying the sanctions against Russia, the russians would have had indeed not been able to keep up the war (at least I believe so---I'm not 100% certain about their capabilities to sustain such an intense war while being sanctioned by the vast majority , let alone, entirety of the world). The reluctance of so many countries in the entire global south to follow the sanctions is revealing of shifting attitudes towards the U.S.



Yesterday and today even mainstream media outlets in Germany were asking the question of whether Germany can be part of a coalition/alliance that uses cluster munitions. Never heard something like that before at all. Could mean some change is finally on the horizon in the future in Germany. But I'll remain cautious overall.

What is most interesting is that main media outlets are openly questioning US information and credibility. I have heard some military persons saying that the supposed 1-2% dud rate is blatant misinformation as the cluster munitions that are getting provided are older ones and the dud rates are at least at 5-6% (14% according to the times). Some even suggest that the US information can't be trusted at all and it is very possibly that the dud rates are much higher than that. Never heard so blatant and obvious criticism and direct questioning on U.S. credibility in Germany.

[drekwins]

Is that an issue actually being debated here?

I love how when I brought up the migrant crisis, his response was, "that has nothing to do with this"... when that literally preceded this war by only months. Then, he immediately brings up something that happened two decades ago and has NOTHING to do with this conflict whatsoever.

Worse, they're arguing about how terrible Americas invasion of Iraq was, while at the same time, using it as justification for what they are doing now lol How does that make sense? You can't say it was so terrible and wrong, but then use it as a moral equivalent for your current actions. That is madness.

This is all predictable, as Russians apologists and shills love to do, they continually live in the past. They will frequently bring up events from 20 years ago... Russians love to re-write ancient history. They even cite the World Wars quite often. No one in America lives with that time-frame in mind. No one is re-litigating WW1 or WW2 in America. No one even thinks about it. It was several generations ago. We do not care. That time has come and passed.

These shills just love to talk in circles. It's asinine.

I didn't want to go into detail but you make it somewhat necessary. Your entire post reeks of ignorance-it just literally shows that you have absolutely ZERO clue at the origins of the migrant crisis, what caused it, how it came about etc.--anyone that followed the middle east and european policy during the past 20 years will simply scoff at the notion that the belarussian--Poland border migrant crisis had anything to do with the outbreak of the Russia-Ukraine war. In fact they will think you have gone completely crazy if you state something like that. Don't take my word for it---read up on the causes. It is so mind-boggling to be reading something like that.

When the syrian migrant crisis broke out (2015), Erdogan used it as a means of getting concessions from the EU countries, a la "you give me this and that, and if not I'll be sending all these waves of syrian refugees to europe" ---at that point Turkey had sheltered millions of syrian refugees. The EU caved, as they didn't want to be faced with millions of additional refugees so they literally paid Erdogan to keep the refugees in Turkey.

In August 2020 there were presidential elections in Belarus. Lukashenko allegedly won with 80% of the votes. The legitimacy of the vote was questioned, protests erupted and Lukashenko squashed them, using many means of violence. The EU put sanctions on Lukashenko and Belarus in September 2020. Trying to get off of these sanctions and blackmailing the EU, he used the Erdogan situation as a role model to put pressure on the EU countries in trying to create another migrant crisis. The belarussians, used travel agencies and enticed IRAQIS and AFGHANS (that's why I brought up the wars of 20 years ago because their effects are still massive in those countries and people willingly jumped for these sarcastic offers) as well as lebanese people and people from Jordan with unrestricted tourist visas. He accumulated refugees and flew them in and tried to unload them at the polish border to create a crisis there to put pressure on the EU and get off of the sanctions. Poland closed the border and built strong fences and sent the police/military---in the cold winter months many migrants freezed to death. The EU didn't cave, they took some of the refugees and the majority, which stemmed from IRAQ, were flown back. This was that story in a nutshell.

Now instead of posting that nonsense you just posted, you could have taken the time and educated yourself on the origin and course of that crisis instead of just repeating the same nonsense. You know repeating nonsense does not make it true.The absolutely stupid, ignorant and asinine nature of such a comment only reveals your utter ignorance and laziness in refusing to take a little time to actually research the crisis. You made yourself only look like a complete fool. Anyone that wants to know the origins of that crisis can read it online. No source will even hint at it having anything to do with the Russia-Ukraine war.

You are a master manipulator and deflector. How about Lukashenko saying that he would allow nuclear weapons and terrorists through Belarusian borders into Eastern Europe? There are many quotes of this. How do you justify this? Your entire goal is to muddy waters that are crystal clear. There is zero justification.

The reason that I brought up the migrant crisis is because Russia is an adversary. They are not a friend in any shape or form. They are an enemy and always will be while their current leadership remains in control. They keep reiterating this through their actions, well beyond the Ukrainian-Russian war. Lets be perfectly clear, any gain by Russia is a loss by America. Yet, you are attempting to gain sympathy towards a Russian agenda, from Americans. Sir, therefore I must ask, are you insane? Are you in your right mind? Or, do you just think Americans are idiots? We have zero sympathy for Russia.

When reviewing your posts, it appears that your over-riding goal is persuasion. Otherwise, why would you go on these long-winded, mis-guided rants? It is no- secret that Russian leadership hopes that the American public and the public of other NATO countries could be swayed through manipulation and ingenue arguments, in an effort to diminish support for the war. Reality check. Americans do not like Russian leadership. We are fine with most Russian people. However, we don't like Putin. We don't like the Kremlin. This can not change. This will not change. Trump will not save you (as Russian state TV openly hopes). Your efforts are all in vain and meaningless.

As I said previously, I can't wait and pray for the fall of the Russian Federation and Belarus. I personally know people & groups within Russia that are organizing mass resistance. The fall of Russia is coming and it will be swift.

-Proud Lithuanian/Polish American